Does the NRA have a stupid pill problem?

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Messages 901 - 920 of total 1386 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
jghedge

climber
Dec 28, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
"What are you guy's trying to do....change each others mind- now that's just plain stupid! Give it a rest."

It's fun proving them wrong - and watching them either change the subject, or scurry away


Watch what happens when I do this:


We have hundreds of millions of guns, which should be keeping us safe, and guns are outlawed in the UK, which should be resulting in thousands of unarmed innocent citizens being shot to death.

Yet it's the exact opposite is what is actually occurring.

Why is that?


Hahahaha - it's like holding up the cross to the vampire - they hiss, screech, hide behind their capes and crawl back to their holes.

jghedge

climber
Dec 28, 2012 - 06:49pm PT
"Utah's per 100K population rate of handgun deaths is 10.2"

In the UK, where guns are outlawed? 0.07 per 100k


Gee, everyone in Utah is sooo much safer though
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 28, 2012 - 06:50pm PT
it would be too too much to think that klk's post:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2016672&msg=2020676#msg2020676

would have resulted in anyone actually going off and reading 4 books on the subject from scholars who actually researched the issue...

of course we have the indubitable Donald Thompson reply that assures us that that work must be "pseudo-intellectual deconstruction at its best/ worst." Of course he has neither read the work, nor does he offer an intellectual response, "pseudo-" or otherwise.

If the assembled debaters agree to some level that the actual historic recored is irrelevant, that the modern right to have a lethal weapon in their possession is sacrosanct, and that to preserve their own personal right, it must apply to everyone, then the types of horror represented by the killing of innocent women and children (which is what occurred in Connecticut) will be inevitable.

That is the price, and it is a high one, for maintaining that individual liberty take priority over the rights of the community to be secure.

It is not common sense that the ubiquitous supply of deadly force available to anyone legally is a prescription to a "more perfect union." These are choices we make as an entire society, and as a society we trade off individual liberties with the needs of that society. Checks and balances in the political system are their to ensure that minority rights are upheld against the prevailing majorities...

If one were to take the view that historically, at least a part of the thinking that went into the 2nd amendment was to provide the populace with a means of overthrowing a tyrannical government, then what modern tyrannies have been so overthrown? Have these not all happened in states where guns ownership was banned by the government? In what ways did this ban inhibit the acquisition of weapons with which the civilian population rebelled against their government?

I can understand the reticence of a few to allow the possibility that their personal preference to be armed to be slightly restricted. But they should not adopt the noble claim of preserving the freedom of the people as they are not so concerned with their neighbor's plight, they are only concerned about their own.


Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 28, 2012 - 06:57pm PT
Just one more thing.... as usual the issue isn't the actual existence of a gun culture. When Ron points out that all the kids in Utah shoot guns - no big deal. Hunting, target shooting or even possessing guns on your property for protection isn't under threat, much as y'all like to pretend.

It just needs to be strongly regulated on all counts and all those ridiculous death machines need to be outlawed. No big deal. All those kids are not going to have a big hairy fit about that even if thier psychotic old fart parents do. But as the demographics of the last election have proved out, who gives a sh#t about them anyway.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:15pm PT
and watching them either change the subject, or scurry away

I neither change the subject - my focus being on the person who commits the act - nor do I scurry away. If I am not here at every moment it is because I actually have a life beyond this thread (apparently unlike certain others...)

Good night, all...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
The dozens of ARs sold just in this county baring the shelves in the past 2 weeks were all bought by local Utah residents.

I can assure you that the local culture is monolithic stubborn and rebellious.
Hell, they still call it Utah's Dixie and fly Confederate flags.
(and resentment against the Feds precedes Johnston's army in 1857)

The more you seek to marginalize them the more self-righteous they become.
jghedge

climber
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:26pm PT
"I neither change the subject"

You simply refuse to address it

Scurry away, now
jghedge

climber
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:28pm PT
"The dozens of ARs sold just in this county baring the shelves in the past 2 weeks were all bought by local Utah residents."

Big fukin deal, idiot

You've been proven wrong 9 ways from Sunday

And men don't need guns.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:30pm PT
Yes, Ron, self-righteousness is something that the rabid gun nuts have no shortage of. But then, many of them probably also claim to be 'christian'.

I neither change the subject - my focus being on the person who commits the act - nor do I scurry away.

Shouldn't the focus be what if any laws and policies would be constitutionally acceptable, reasonably likely to be enacted, and reasonably likely to reduce incidents of mass murder?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:30pm PT
Ron, I'm sorry are you talking about present day Utah or is that old confederacy ?.... I'm afraid I can't tell the difference, not by your description anyway.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:47pm PT
LOL idiocracy from the lamestream media.

These are EMPTY fiberglass tubes.

no more dangerous than the cardboard tube that carpet comes rolled on.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/12/there-were-actually-two-rocket-launchers-were-turned-las-gun-buyback-program/60390/

But, Hey they are scarey lookin' and have Unhinged tremblin'.






Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:54pm PT
Utah
Utah
Credit: Dr. F.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 28, 2012 - 08:12pm PT
Ron, perhaps my supositions about a "change in the guard" were a bit exagerated, and no doubt there will always be certain enclaves of 2nd amendement hardcores. I really hope there is no need for Hedges Apache helicopters you know? What I was trying to point out is that the tides are against you. Sooner or later gun control has to happen, mostly because it is logical as already demonstrated by other countries. No mater how beligerant the feeling is, logic prevails even if it takes a generation or two. History demonstrates this all the time. Do you really think that same sex marriage won't be accepted country wide in another ten years? Again, no matter how bigoted one is, logic is undeniable in the end.

Your allusions to "Dixie" and the confederate flag really piqued my curiosity. I've noticed the odd confederate flag down there. Whats up with that? How the hell can anybody be proud of that? I get the whole "states rights" deal but how does that give a pass to the defense of slavery?

And how does that somehow translate to gun rights?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I'm really curious and I hope this actually cools things down a bit (call me naive maybe)
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 28, 2012 - 08:16pm PT
TGT, I already saw those. Hilarious, they got the operator shield and skipped the ordnance.

I hope they got paid "assault weapon" rates for those throwaway tubes.





Ron, I'm sorry are you talking about present day Utah or is that old confederacy ?.... I'm afraid I can't tell the difference, not by your description anyway.

See Bruce? I knew we had common ground!
jghedge

climber
Dec 28, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
"I hope they got paid "assault weapon" rates for those throwaway tubes."

Hahahaha

Desperate to cite anything but what's relevant to the actual topic

Which, for all your supposed expertise, you fail miserably at, and have given up trying

Which says more than you know

jghedge

climber
Dec 28, 2012 - 08:50pm PT
Credit: jghedge
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 28, 2012 - 09:19pm PT
perhaps this is somewhat what we were just talking about:

Government-dodging Freeman on the Land movement creates 'major policing problem': CSIS report


BY DOUGLAS QUAN, POSTMEDIA NEWS DECEMBER 28, 2012 6:03 PM




Robert Menard is a “guru” of the Freeman on the Land. According to the World Freeman Society website, which promotes Mr. Menard’s ideas, Freemen have “revoked consent to be governed by human laws.”

An anti-government movement known as Freeman on the Land has become a 'major policing problem' in several provinces, according to a threat assessment by Canada's spy officials.

The report by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service lists Freeman members among 'domestic extremists' who associate with issue-based causes, such as environmentalism, anti-capitalism, anti-globalization and far-right racism.

Its adherents fall on both the left and right wings of the political spectrum, but "at the core" of the movement is the belief that "government operates outside of its legal jurisdiction and therefore Freeman members do not recognize the authority of national, provincial, or municipal laws, policies or regulations," says the report, titled Canada: Biannual Update on Terrorist and Extremist Threats, which was prepared in April and released under federal access-to-information laws.

"Freeman members now constitute a major policing problem in several provinces and have occasionally engaged in acts of violence against the police," the report states.

In various videos posted online, supporters of the Freeman movement in Canada - including outspoken advocate Robert Menard - reject any association with violent extremism and insist they are "peaceful and loving."

Law enforcement officials are not convinced.

A national RCMP spokeswoman said Friday that the force is working with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police to develop materials for front-line officers to increase their awareness and understanding of the Freeman movement and its followers.

"Individuals associated to this movement are a concern because some followers advocate violence to promote their views and this may involve violence toward police officers," Sgt. Julie Gagnon said in an email. "There are officer safety concerns when dealing with followers of this movement during routine police interaction."

Last month, the Anti-Defamation League published a report that described the so-called "sovereign citizen movement" as "one of the most problematic domestic extremist movements in the United States," attracting mostly middle-aged or older men who are financially stressed, angry at government regulation or who want "something for nothing."

The report cited the 2010 shooting deaths of two West Memphis, Ark., police officers during a traffic stop. The suspects, a father and son who were later killed in a shootout with police, belonged to the sovereign citizen movement.

Earlier this year, a Nova Scotia jury convicted a man of uttering a threat to kill police officers and for multiple firearms offences. Court records state that Daren McCormick, a Freeman on the Land follower, told an officer that he could outdraw police and that if a police cruiser ever pulled up in his yard, he'd kill the officers. When police moved to arrest him the following day, they found him with a loaded .44-calibre revolver in a holster strapped to his hip.

McCormick asserted that the doctrines of Freeman on the Land free him from the Criminal Code, including its gun laws, and that he was free to carry a gun even to go grocery shopping, according to the records. He also claimed his right to travel highways without a licence or registration.

Last year, RCMP officials in B.C. issued a bulletin to officers urging them to be cautious when dealing with suspected Freemen because of their belief in the right to use force in defence of their land, property and family.

The bulletin said some followers may refer to themselves using the phrase "of the family," such as "John of the Family Smith," or claim to be a "Son of God."

They also may present to officers a document that they believe exempts them from the authority of the police and entitles them to charge fees if they are detained. "Subjects make continued use of nonsensical legal/quasi-legal jargon," the bulletin said.

Some Canadian judges have expressed frustration with Freemen tying up the court system.

In September, John Rooke, associate chief justice of the Court of Queen's Bench in Alberta, issued a scathing ruling against a self-described Freeman, Dennis Larry Meads, for holding up his divorce proceedings by making "bluntly idiotic" arguments.

At one point, court records state, after the judge informed Meads of the basics of family law proceedings, Meads replied that "there are rules above man's rules, and God's laws is where your laws originated from."

The judge characterized the "gurus" behind the Freeman on the Land and similar movements as "nothing more than "con men," who pitch distorted world views on followers through seminars, books, websites and DVDs.

dquan@postmedia.com


Read more: http://www.canada.com/Freeman+Land+movement+creates+major+policing+problem+report+claims/7754285/story.html#ixzz2GPngROBp
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 28, 2012 - 09:34pm PT
Shouldn't the focus be what if any laws and policies would be constitutionally acceptable, reasonably likely to be enacted, and reasonably likely to reduce incidents of mass murder?

Did I not say that in my previous post (in fewer words?)
jghedge

climber
Dec 28, 2012 - 09:39pm PT
"Did I not say that in my previous post (in fewer words?)"

Actually you tried to explain why no laws could work, if I recall
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