Does the NRA have a stupid pill problem?


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Dec 30, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
"#1 killer in the US is cardiovascular disease. This has been effectively reduced a lot. #32 is violence."

"I think a lot of people are lazy. They are used to expecting the government to make a law and solve their problem for them."

Flying planes into buildings was pretty low on the list of "reasons people died" in 2001

The Japanese bombing Pearl harbor also resulted in relatively few casualties comparerd to CV disease

By your "logic", nothing therefore should have been done

It's a stupid, annoying argument

Please stop


Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 30, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
and the laws Obama has allowed these past 4 years, which have made gun ownership easier - and you see gun crime decrease slightly (not anywhere near the countries you envy)

so tooth,

please name and describe these supposedly meaningful and sweeping "gun laws" the President signed into law since 2008 that you apparently maintain had the effect of decreasing gun crime in the past three years?


Trad climber
Dec 30, 2012 - 06:41pm PT
I put zilch, no effect. Not minus signs. You should know the laws, and I'm sure you do, that he allowed to expire and/or change. Don't embarrass yourself by having a Canadian tell you. (national park gun laws, Amtrak gun laws...)

and jghedge, you are reading my logic wrong. If I had meant, 'don't do anything' that's what I would have said. I meant what I said - use the successes as a pattern for other situations. Your reading comprehension needs to increase to an adult level.

So besides reading comprehension issues and criticism, you haven't really said anything constructive.

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:30pm PT
This one will really test the reading comprehension skills. A paper published in 2007 in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy.


MH I think you'll find this one interesting, there is a lot of comparative data across international lines.

About the authors:

                                                                           *Don B. Kates (LL.B., Yale, 1966) is an American criminologist and constitutional lawyer associated with the Pacific Research Institute, San Francisco.

** Gary Mauser (Ph.D., University of California, Irvine, 1970) is a Canadian criminologist and university professor at Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, BC Canada.


Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:39pm PT
that's right tooth

inconsequential bills he signed into law, I agree

yet you thought them important enough to mention above as somehow relevant to your "point" relating them to gun crime increases and decreases

critical thinking skills in action

PS: your being "Canadian" has nothing to do with your credibility or lack of it while commenting on American gun culture, yet you repeatedly bring it up, again unrelated


Trad climber
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:41pm PT
I included them to show the effect of passing laws on overall crime and that it made virtually no difference thus the flatline, not a plus or negative sign. Your post shows that you agree with the point I made, even if you didn't get it.

I'm not bringing up Canadian for credibility. I'm discussing a topic and I want you to think about points instead of being able to throw me into one of the two groups you have and then just attack me because I'm pro/con dem/repub since that gets you nowhere.

Are you really reading all this into it - - - or just trying to argue superfluous points and avoid the issue?


Dec 30, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
Mauser speaks out publicly against the United Nations Program of Action to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects. He and others know the Program is a scam for an international body to curtail citizens’ gun rights by declaring certain of their activities “illicit.”

Kris, read up a little on these guys.

Dec 30, 2012 - 09:58pm PT

"Nevertheless, the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world."


Yes, the "prove my false hypothesis" ploy. CrackAddict used to try that after he got shot down, too.

So the fact that nations with less guns have less gun deaths, and nations with more guns have more gun deaths, means nothing, unless the stats for every nation on earth is averaged together, which they admit the stats don't exist for, therefore the stats we already have mean nothing.

Any fool could have reached that "conclusion" without doing the research, obviously.

And just as obviously, the researcher chose to straddle the line between keeping his academic reputation intact, and not refuting the ideology he's trying to support, by basically saying nothing.


Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:59pm PT

you talk a lot of "fluff" with little specifics for reducing mass murders in USA

you bemoan kids watching video games for example, along with other vaguenesses

you state that passing more laws won't do any good because we already have lots of laws
and that has not stopped mass murders here

you seem to blame many aspects of American life or "culture"

You know what, tooth?

anyone can criticize the obvious, as you are good at doing

I have asked you to quit screwing around and get specific, one would have to believe that you who are so capable of criticizing and analysis who also be capable of concrete, reasonable, and EFFECTIVE suggestions as solutions to mitigate this problem.

Yet you have really not offered anything like that.

I HAVE, when are YOU planning on doing so?

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
So you agree that you are arguing useless aspects of an individual instead of the points that I'm making.

If my points aren't specific enough, it is because there isn't a specific enough demographic to apply them to. If I were to apply those points to myself I could be specific. You have a varied population and trying to fit everyone into specific laws means you will need more than the 22,000 gun laws you already have. Nobody is going to do that, if you can't apply principles to individual situations you will remain frustrated that I'm not giving you specific enough examples that you can apply to a situation that they wouldn't work in so that you can criticize them.

Of course, you are more comfortable just making laws, then forcing everyone to fit into your square hole. That's a pipe dream. It is easy to say that we should take away every gun and then there will be no gun violence. Nobody argues with that logic, but it isn't possible in real life. You sure have been very specific in this way, but based on the assumption that we live in some dream. Not the reality that there are 200,000 guns out there that won't be turned in no matter what.

If I were to use your logic specifically and apply it to the nation as a whole instead of just my kids, I would say that nobody plays a video game with a gun in it, nobody watches a movie with a gun in it, but every kid learns to hunt and use a gun as a tool from a young age. But we all know that not one of those 3 points is possible to do as a nation even though it has happened in my family.

You seem to try and draw out all-or-none arguments so that you can simply deny that it can be done, and yet you use the same arguments yourself.

Dec 30, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
"But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world."

Uhh...yes they are.

Fewer Guns Mean Fewer Gun Homicides
Captain...or Skully

Dec 30, 2012 - 10:33pm PT
Fix it or f*#k it, blowhards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If you can't fix it, then kindly shut the f*#k up..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2012 - 11:10pm PT
I think some people are making arguments just for the sake of arguing. Pointless.

It is almost as pointless to make up rules, try them out, and see if they fix the problem.

I'm suggesting using guiding principles from current reactions in US society to come up with solutions that are as specific as the US population. If someone needs hand-holding and specific rules that will make them happy and solve all of the crime, they won't get it. Not here, and not in real life. The way these two guys are asking to be led through each argument instead of doing any critical thinking themselves is equivalent to hand-holding.

Dec 30, 2012 - 11:19pm PT
You seem fixated on the deaths Hedge. Calculate this.

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future."

Adolph Hitler, 1935

Dec 30, 2012 - 11:19pm PT
"If someone needs hand-holding and specific rules that will make them happy and solve all of the crime, they won't get it. Not here, and not in real life."



I would have never figured that out on my own

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 30, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
From tooth:

I think some people are making arguments just for the sake of arguing. Pointless.

It is almost as pointless to make up rules, try them out, and see if they fix the problem.


But that's the problem in this country. Just like there's a pill for everything, there must be a law too. With 1 in 5 on government cheese now(purchased on credit of course), the government has become parental. Daddy always has my best interests at heart after all.

This is different though in the sense a wedge is being driven on purpose. There's a lot of strange hate and anger with little focus, visible in these threads. We can't even come together as civil people and address the recent wave of mass killings. Instead we blame, we blame each other for the will of madmen. Christ there's talk of Civil War before legislation has even been passed! Combine this with certain financial distress or collapse and you have the perfect storm.


Everyone have a good New Year and hug your kids if you've got 'em.


Dec 31, 2012 - 12:20am PT
Couchmaster tries again with his Hitler gun lie.

However, Hitler never said it, even though fabricated sources are sometimes provided.

Guns weren’t that much of a problem in the Nazi era (at least within the country...).

In fact, the Nazis liked guns, and started training kids early on in their use.

Sounds more like the NRA. You are quite gullible, Couchmaster.
bit'er ol' guy

the past
Dec 31, 2012 - 12:42am PT






Social climber
So Cal
Dec 31, 2012 - 06:08pm PT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 31, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
GUD one TGT....

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