"Made my Day" the Smith and Wesson way.


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Dave Kos

Trad climber
Dec 18, 2012 - 09:46am PT
Half the houses in Switzerland have military automatic weapons in them and they're not killing each other.

That's because they understand the concept of "militia" better than our own supreme court.

I will agree that the "cultural differences" thing has some merit, but it does not account for the order of magnitude differences between gun violence rates.

Take away the left side of the road thing and the funny accents, and Australia is practically the same country as the US.

Where are they on the chart?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 18, 2012 - 10:01am PT
WTF is a "multiclip" gun?

I wonder how an experienced wall climber would feel if a ranger that never climbed told him that he was welcome to climb in the park but he could only have a blue camalot because that was all that he needed.

Dec 18, 2012 - 10:17am PT

I was speculating. If you are interested, you can look at how one academic has characterized different cultures.

http://geert-hofstede.com/countries.html (pick a country and see the data).

Hofstede's data are very broadly cut, and indeed countries look similar along his dimensions. As you say, for example, Australia and the US look similar by his account, but I'm not sure that people from either country would say the same thing as you. There may be more difference than driving lanes and "funny accents." History is a part of it, I imagine. Heck, the South in our own country is like another world than here in California.

In the end, we can't EXPLAIN anything to almost anyone's satisfaction. I think we first have our own ideas and commitments, and then we look around for data analysis to back them up.

I continue to favor a behavioral approach to the issue, though.

Trad climber
Dec 18, 2012 - 10:37am PT

Sorry, but that is what this governor, ( don't remember which state) called them.

I'm sure what he meant is limiting the size of the clip or magazine.

My guess is there will be a number of politicians introducing new bills on these issues, after the new year, and there will be one hell of a fight on both sides.

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 18, 2012 - 10:44am PT
Melt 200 million of today's 310 million guns. If you can't manage all goals with the remaining 110 million guns then gun owners are too incompetent to own them.

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 18, 2012 - 10:44am PT
The biggest "clip" I've seen holds five rounds. ( edit for memory update: eight rounds in the Garrand clip ) I'm not sure what will be accomplished by limiting their size.

A "magazine" is a different thing, however.

We need to be especially sure of our terminology when proposing law.

Clips and magazines are as different from one another as bolts and cams are.

Trad climber
Dec 18, 2012 - 10:54am PT
Clips and magazines are as different from one another as bolts and cams are.

yeah, and it is true that pedantry matters when it comes to law. but i'm not too worried that some redneck lawyer will accidentally write "banana clip" instead of 'magazine."

i also call "engines" "motors." drove my shop teacher nuts. and i say "sierras." drives dmt nuts.


The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Dec 18, 2012 - 11:29am PT

Thanks for the thought provoking post.
There's a lot of room to interpret the messages that may be intended or implied.
Firearm ownership is a political hot potato and an emotional subject on both sides of our border, particularly in light of recent events.

Most of the firearms discussed are designed primarily for killing people and I agree we'd all be better off living in a world where such devices weren't necessary.
Unfortunately we're not there yet and probably never will be.
I think the corollary between firearm proliferation, ease of acquisition and gun crime is for the most part, supported by evidence, Switzerland not withstanding.
The US may be unique in having the right to bear arms enshrined in it's constitution and that's a tough row to hoe.
Good luck.

In Canada, firearms are still a rural necessity for many for hunting and protection from wildlife.
For us firearm ownership is not a right but a privilege that comes with a high degree of personal and social responsibility. It's not perfect but most of us can live with the arrangement.

The Smith and Wesson in question is a classic sidearm chosen by many for hunting, wildlife protection and marksmanship.

The comments I posted earlier provoked a couple strong responses and I thought I'd do the courtesy of putting them in context.

Too bad about the Smith and Wesson.
I'd advocate doing that to the shooter before I'd ruin a nice pistol.

I'm all for strict gun control laws and responsible firearm ownership.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Dec 18, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
Chief - when i wrote that i thought you were someone else, Someone who has shown a ridiculous tendency to fall for the worst that American culture offers the world.

Guns can be beautiful - I love the history of antique guns.
Everybody has the right to enjoy the beauty of guns in the same way we enjoy the beauty of a samurai sword.
Most dont have any problem with reasonable gun ownership.
It's the culture of guns in America that has become so incredibly disturbing.

Like so many things in America is is driven by corporate consumerism. The NRA has become nothing more than the very powerful propaganda arm for gun sales.
It is so sick and so deeply disturbing - the only analogy i can think of would be cigarette sales in the 1950s. It took generations for people to realise it actually was not their right or duty, that it wasn't that important after all, to suck on death sticks. Remember how powerful that marketing was and how many people died because of it all.

It is the religious,global warming or evolution argument all over again.
Cult members so thick with misinformation that they are beyond any reasonable communication or discussion related to policy changes and fixing a very serious American problem.
It is hard for Canadians to understand and be glad you dont have to in all honesty. I'm Canadian but have lived here for 17 years.

The problem is not even the second amendment. By any reading of the second amendment, even Scalia's recent right wing majority decision and explanation concerning hand guns, the regulation of guns is not and has never been an issue in America.
It's paranoia, fear, marketing, programming, ignorance and human nature taken to its most extreme. It's the ridiculousness that has become America and it is making her the laughing stock of the world.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 18, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
The reiterations ad nauseum that there is no justifiable reason for somebody to own an AR 15 are all by people who ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to read any of the newspaper articles cited in the Armed Citizen that detail how precisely those weapons were used, sometimes without firing a shot, to deter armed assaults by criminals who would otherwise be free to victimize somebody else.

Their immature stance is to say, "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA ,..........."

Riley, do you have the guts to read newspaper article that detail how so called assault rifles have been used for self-defense?
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Dec 18, 2012 - 04:12pm PT
. Riley, do you have the guts to read newspaper article that detail how so called assault rifles have been used for self-defense?

Lol....struck a nerve..bam!
No I have never read anything like this.....
Nor do I care to read NRA justifications for the ridiculous.
I've traveled everywhere and sure as hell haven't had even the remotest thought that I ever wanted or needed an assault rifle for self - defence.....LOL
Everytime some gun nut is within 5 miles of some crazy person shooting a gun the gun lobby falls all over itself to lie about how much the gun nut helped prevent a disaster.
We are all well aware of the recent mass shootings.
Speaking from experience in the maybe 1000 gun wounds I have seen I have never heard of or seen a positive outcome - it is always some innocent being shot, some dummy shooting himself or his friends or some exchange of violence between violent people. In every case the situation was made far worse and life destroying by easy access to guns.

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Dec 18, 2012 - 05:44pm PT
Apologies to Joni Mitchell and Smith and Wesson.

They took all the guns and put 'em in a gun museum.
Charged all the people a dollar and a half to seem them.

In the interests of fair play, I'd advocate for waiving the fee for documented gun lovers.


Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Dec 18, 2012 - 06:22pm PT
Australias approach to the problem:

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 06:28pm PT
Bump for art lovers
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Dec 23, 2012 - 10:42pm PT
Awesome guns! That's the way I like 'em.
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