Yep...ANOTHER mass shooting.

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locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:23pm PT


"It could not possibly be the result of a culture that so loves violence that if you show a tit in a movie it will be rated X, but if you hack it off then it is only rated R."...

I blame that on the conservative, religious type that view NUDITY as PORN...

A different subject all together...





But to your point above...

SOMETHING is going on that wasn't when we were kids (50's and 60's)...







EDITED:

"Maybe it's easier to get the guns than to build a bomb in your garage?"...

Bombs are pretty fuking EASY to make...

10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
Latest report is one of his parents was found dead

yeah, I heard that is was the shooters' mother. also heard that the shooter was twenty years old.

as an aside, I think camo outfits should be outlawed.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
Ron, STFU.

Isolated incidents of violence are far different than what we are discussing right now.

Why do you always have to be an ass?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
You'd think that after events like this the gun nuts would even agree it may be time to try something drastic. Can you really love your "tools" that much?
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
Sheltering a child from violence... I am calling B.S. on that since my parents "GREW UP IN A WAR ZONE." They saw kids shot, people starved, horrible acts such as folks steeling for survival from their elders and... Seeing the victims of that theft die as a result. They were not homicidal maniacs because they saw such horrible stuff. They were the nicest, most moral, generous people I ever knew. Explain That!!!!

Now how can you shelter or not shelter a child? I sure as heck am not going to keep tragic news away from Aris. I think that is stupid since he will see it, he will be exposed to it "somewhere/somehow." What I am going to do is talk to him about it. Ask him what he thinks, have a discussion. Might as well teach him some coping skills and a few moral lessons while at it.

Just because life is harsh does not excuse bad behavior.

The whole gun debate isn't good either. We are avoiding the real issue. We as a nation are suffering because we lack a proper social structure. We don't have town squares, a place where people can connect to those living around them. This whole individual bubble isolation isn't working. We need to fix how we relate, be a real neighborhood instead of just people sharing a street and never talking to each other. Seriously folks, isn't it obvious???
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
This is obviously the fault of the NRA, this country's first civil rights organization.

Yes, they were the first. And that matters ... how?

The Catholics were the first organized religion in America, I guess that means the Pope is always right.

Slavery was one of the first industries.

Yeah, it really makes a difference, being "first."

It could not possibly be the result of a culture that so loves violence that if you show a tit in a movie it will be rated X, but if you hack it off then it is only rated R.
It couldn't be a result of a culture that substitutes video games and tv for sound parenting and loving attention.

Yes, we need more love. That will fix it. Let's pass some legislation mandating more love.

I'm sure that's why every other modern country on earth has far fewer gun-related homicides - because they love each other more.

Must have been the presence of the tool, a complex device that nobody could manufacture for themselves in their garage,..

I'm going to give up here, because I can't even follow the twists in that logic.

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
Violent video games.

24 hour media coverage.

Hands off parenting.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:29pm PT


"Can you really love your "tools" that much?"...

Gonna leave that one alone since this is a serious thread...

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:31pm PT
Locker were not talking about that tool, or are we?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
By isolated I mean individual rather than mass.

Big difference.

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
I am reposting this because I really think this is the real issue.


The whole gun debate is distracting, we are avoiding the real issue. We as a nation are suffering because we lack a proper social structure. We don't have town squares, a place where people can connect to those living around them. This whole individual bubble isolation isn't working. We need to fix how we relate, be a real neighborhood instead of just people sharing a street and never talking to each other. Seriously folks, isn't it obvious???

People are getting sick and no one is noticing or... Helping... That needs to change BIG TIME. We are social animals. We need each other.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/opinion/an-arms-race-we-cant-win.html?_r=1&

This whole individual bubble isolation isn't working.

Anastasia, I think that harkens back to the fact that everyone is trying to keep up with the Joneses(busting their asses to make money), instead of talking to the Joneses
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:36pm PT
Anastasia, not saying shelter them from the facts... shelter them from the 24 hour sensationalized bullshit coverage. Seeing someone die is one thing. I've held 2 people as they took their last breath... it is a very real, very visceral experience. Seeing the sensationalized account played over and over and over and over with conjecture and speculation and drama and blah blah blah blah is an entirely different thing. I imagine your parent's attitude reflects the deep experience they had more than the fact that they witnessed people dying. You can't have that experience from sensationalized TV coverage, it only desensitizes.
QITNL

climber
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
We have a COWARD problem. Whether we're talking mass-murder or street violence, these acts are committed by COWARDS. COWARDS with guns.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:41pm PT

"We have a COWARD problem. Whether we're talking mass-murder or street violence, these acts are committed by COWARDS. COWARDS with guns."...

I find that a ridiculous statement and one that is false...

It has ZERO to do with bravery or cowardice...

It's MENTAL ILLNESS that has these types doing as they do...

In a nutshell...

they're SICK...



SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
Sheltering a child from violence... I am calling B.S. on that since my parents "GREW UP IN A WAR ZONE." They saw kids shot, people starved, horrible acts such as folks steeling for survival from their elders and... Seeing the victims of that theft die as a result. They were not homicidal maniacs because they saw such horrible stuff. They were the nicest, most moral, generous people I ever knew. Explain That!!!!


I think the difference is that they saw it FOR REAL. They had to witness what really happens to real people. There is a big difference between personal experience and impersonal. I'm not a zealot about video games but as my son was growing up I was rather stunned about the level of disgusting impersonal violence in games I thought were supposed to have minimal stuff in it. The ones with warnings must be horrific.

It's terribly complex with no easy answers....and lamenting about what once was is no answer.

Susan
John M

climber
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
Guns aren't evil.. they just make it easier.
news in and of itself isn't evil.. but how its played over and over with the intent to create fear/anxiety is evil. Exposure isn't a simple thing. It isn't simply that if one sees violence, then one will become violent and if one doesn't see or experience violence then one doesn't become violent. There is much more to it.

I believe that one of the bigger drivers in our country of these events is our glorification of violence. You see it in video games, in tv shows, in movies,, in books, in magazines, even in commercials. Everywhere you turn, there is glorification of violence. I believe that this is different then respect for ones ability to defend oneself. Respect is different then glorification. Respect is tempered with humility.

The thing about this issue is that there isn't just one driver. There are many.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
The article in 10b4me's link in excellent, and merits a repost:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/opinion/an-arms-race-we-cant-win.html?_r=2&

The author makes a clear argument, and has tremendous credibility.

The last paragraph makes THE point, the point that that gun lovers refuse to address:

There will always be violent loners. If they don’t kill with guns, they’ll find some other way to do it. Semiautomatic weapons, however, are what enable them to shoot dozens of people in a movie theater. Is someone’s right to buy an assault rifle worth having to carry a weapon yourself, every moment you’re outside your home, for the rest of your life?

Andrew Jensen served for five years as an infantry officer in the United States Army.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:44pm PT


"I believe that one of the bigger drivers in our country of these events is our glorification of violence. You see it in video games, in tv shows, in movies,, in books, in magazines, even in commercials. Everywhere you turn, there is glorification of violence."...

I wonder...

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 14, 2012 - 02:46pm PT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

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