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this just in
climber
north fork
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
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Do you guys really think that if guns were banned, they'd disappear and no more shootings would happen? I'd gladly give up my arms if this were the case, but I don't think it would help. The War on Drugs and Prohibition are two examples of what I'm getting at. The Black Market would supply the psychos who would do these things and The War on Guns won't change anything.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
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A president and a nation weeps.
Susan
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:20pm PT
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Locker has posited that this shooter, along with so many others we have seen, are "mentally ill".
I do not believe that is likely the case all the time. In fact, more often than not, I do not believe these people are suffering any kind of mental illness.
Cragman, you are correct
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John M
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
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Its now being reported that there was only one shooter, and he is dead.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
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Liberal...Conservative...blah blah blah. We need a real solution to identify and help these folks that are clearly troubled. Seems like the legal system is not adequate to handle mentally troubled individuals. I wish banning guns was a real solution but as we have seen with ilegal drugs, they are real hard to get because they are illegal...right? Gun prohibition would only make the thugs rich and create a whole new level of violence. Extremo left will argue to ban it/more laws, Extremo righty will want fully auto weapons to be available at the local convenience store.
Sad day in America for sure.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
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That sick fuk killed his mother who was a teacher at the school and somone in his parents house.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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What I see in this thread is the focus nearly consistently being framed at a fractious discussion our media has been seeding us with for several years - the right to bear arms vs the responsibility which comes with that right.
So very few focused on the horror the people went through, the overwhelming loss so many families and friends are going through. Instead we are intent on a verbal battle neither side can win.
How about a moment of thought for the pain so many have just had foisted upon them, that they find some small comfort in the kindness of a neighbor at this time. And that we take some moment out of our day today to be that type of kind neighbor to those around us.
"Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me." If we can all live by that mindset - we WILL see change.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
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What Tami says about guns being controlled in Canada but people getting guns is interesting. We have Switzerland, a land full of automatic rifles with nothing like this, contrasted with Mexico, a land of gun control yet paradoxically full of gun violence. I think Anastasia is onto something I've not considered before.
"The whole gun debate is distracting, we are avoiding the real issue. We as a nation are suffering because we lack a proper social structure. We don't have town squares, a place where people can connect to those living around them. This whole individual bubble isolation isn't working. We need to fix how we relate, be a real neighborhood instead of just people sharing a street and never talking to each other. Seriously folks, isn't it obvious???
People are getting sick and no one is noticing or... Helping... That needs to change BIG TIME. We are social animals. We need each other."
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John M
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
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the mental illness issue is a real issue, but I believe some here are mincing words. There are clinical definitions for certain forms of mental illness. I don't know if every school shooter to date has been diagnosed with some form of mental illness, though I believe that many have. I believe what some are saying is that you would have to be crazy to want to do this kind of thing, even though that person may not fit into some clinical definition of insanity or mental illness.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:31pm PT
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There is always a limit to the right to bear arms. You can't own chemical weapons, bombs or an rocket propelled grenade
I don't see much self-defense or hunting reason to allow 100 clip magazines. I doubt much of a black market would exist for such things (compared to drugs) but at least if they were illegal the police would have a law to attach to people found with illegal clips
Peace
Karl
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Enty
Trad climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:32pm PT
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Do you guys really think that if guns were banned, they'd disappear and no more shootings would happen? I'd gladly give up my arms if this were the case, but I don't think it would help.
No they wouldn't disappear but the mass shootings might just happen like they do in the UK - once every 10 - 15 years and not every 6 months. The fact that our shooters don't have easy access to weapons that can fire a thousand rounds a minute probably helps too.
E
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John M
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:32pm PT
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And yes.. its harder then one would think to get mental health help in this country. Easy in some ways, more difficult then one would realize in others.
For instance, in Mariposa county, if you are poor and are having problems with depression, you get sent to group counseling. Group counseling has been shown to be helpful to some degree, but there are loads of people that it doesn't help. The county has decided that it gives the most bang for the buck, and there is a lack of funds, so that is what is offered. You can get individual counseling, but that is harder to get. More hoops to jump through isn't something that someone who is dealing with depression can always deal with.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
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Mexico also has a very corrupt government, brought to you in part by NAFTA and the destruction of the rural way of life in Mexico in favor of corporate profits from moving US companies down there for cheap labor. Uhmerikuh, fuk yeah!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:34pm PT
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Cragman wrote: Good on Mr. Obama for an hearfelt, appropriate response.
Isn't he President Obama!!
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jstan
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:34pm PT
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Many potential "causes" have been discussed. Most worrisome of all is the observation that these events are happening with increasing regularity. It would seem we are increasingly unable to maintain civil order.
Our society will be changed.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
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The political bickering is lost on me...especially in a time like this. Time to log out.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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I lived in CT most of my life. Two of my children live there, and 40 of my 45 first cousins live there. My sister works two miles from the Sandy Hook School. She is frantically trying to find her friends' kids. You can't imagine how difficult it is for the parents of 700 kids to get to a school in a quiet two lane road. The scene is overwhelming. She spoke to a cop that was quite shaken from seeing a pile of children's bodies.
This may be another mass shooting to many people. To me, this is a very personal tragedy. While part of me is relieved to see that probably my children, nieces, nephews, cousins are OK. How can you be truly happy when this has affected so many people we know directly? and to know that the victims are overwhelmingly kids? and these little kids rarely have a concept of death but now have been so brutually introduced?
I am so sorry for this tragedy. I hate to see their tragedy be used as political fodder in the never ending political tug of war. They have been victimized enough.
My Nutmeg State, My Constitution State - I love you. This is another big hurt so soon after Irene and Sandy. I can't wait to go home again next year.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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Cragman wrote: You get a person enraged enough for whatever reason, you can see them become violent. Look what happened in Michigan the other night with the Union crowds.
As times get more desperate, you will see more and MORE of this kind of event.
Yes..this was a daily event in the depression era.
Are you out of your mind??
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
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Ronald Reagan did indeed screw this country's mental health programs. But he had his rebuild the military motivation and costs had to be cut. That's why he had Catsup declared a vegetable for school lunch programs. Just imagine how many bullets you can buy from the savings you get depriving children of nourishment and nurturing.
When we as a Nation are more deeply concerned with securing any individual's right to own any weapon they want whenever and where-ever they want and less about the basic human condition we are condemning ourselves to the chaos of sociopaths.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
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Enty, way to quote half of what I said and ignore the rest. Also, you assume that the culture in the UK is the exact same as it is in the US.
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