70 meter ropes MANDATORY???? WTF???

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guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 10, 2012 - 06:57pm PT

A friend of mine just returned from the east side and he reported that there are new very cool sport climbs up in Pine Creek and elsewise.

One thing though…. All these new climbs are about 35 meters from the anchor to the dirt.

So if this is true, I need to start using a freaking 70 meter rope, I hate those things.

What is with you all?????

Adamame

climber

Santa Cruz

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:00pm PT

Get with the times... the standards change.

edit: in some place the 80m rope is becoming a standard

Rhodo-Router

Gym climber

sawatch choss

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:08pm PT

Snooze.

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:10pm PT

life is all about choices. lets say the first ascent party is climbin and at 30m the climb starts to get really good. should they do two pitches cuz your a whiner? or maybe they ought to keep on climbin? or perhaps they might expect that the next climbers can either have a longer rope or an additional rope so they can get their sorry ass off in one piece? what do you think?

so 70m ropes are not mandatory but if you are going to climb more than one rope length then perhaps a second rope is. if thats too inconvenient for you then can i suggest bowling?

WBraun

climber

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:10pm PT

I need to start using a freaking 70 meter rope,

Why?

Just pull the lead line up and out off all the draws and then drop it back to the ground.

Tie on your second rope and then lower off.

It will require 2 ropes but so what.

Now you don't need to buy a 70 meter rope.

Not unless you're just complaining for complaining sakes?

happiegrrrl

Trad climber

www.climbaddictdesigns.com

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:12pm PT

Ropes are getting thinner, so a new 70 probably weighs about similar as a couple years old 60. If you are local to an area putting up longer routes, or travel enough, it makes sense to at least have a 70 so you aren't hosed when you need it.

But I know I wasn't happy when a climbing partner showed up to the Gunks a couple years ago with their new 70. I was like "I may be seconding, but you can coil your own new toy!"

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

-A race of corn eaters

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:16pm PT

Werner, in the afterlife...

you can be my second any day. I can tell, you've got a good brain when it comes to rope savvy.

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:24pm PT

ropes are for sailors

Evel

Trad climber

Nedsterdam CO

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:42pm PT

Last summer my partner broke out his new 100 meter line. That's a lotta rope!

RyanD

climber

Squamish

Dec 10, 2012 - 07:45pm PT

Just bring a bunch of bail biners

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 07:59pm PT

so 70m ropes are not mandatory but if you are going to climb more than one rope length then perhaps a second rope is. if thats too inconvenient for you then can i suggest bowling?

Hawkeye..... I am pretty good at bowling, but I think it is lame.

I know just what to do when climbing any climb, BUT after reading about the poor girl who fell a long way at the ORG, glad she lived to tell the tale. I am struck by the total lack of thought of the new breed who are putting in SPORT CLIMBS.

Is this some new way to get more business into Inyo, Mono County emergency rooms and keep the SAR folks busy?

No, Herr Braun, not complaining just saying...

So when you need to go climb where you have no knowlege of the climbs... adventure trad.. and you might need to rap off, that single 70 m rope will not do squat, so you suposed to carry 2 70 meter anchors?

I am just saying,.... and anyway how do you determine just where to put the anchors at? The crux is usuly above the anchors. (attempt at funny)

snowhazed

Trad climber

Oaksterdam, CA

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:03pm PT

Who the hell cares about sport climbing?

herm

Trad climber

Bishop

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:05pm PT

Pine Creek is not a climbing gym.

Rolfr

Social climber

North Vancouver BC

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:05pm PT

Happie girl, the only duodess rope I could find at the co-op was a 70meter, does that mean you won't climb with me at JT this winter?
I'm coming down from the Great White North in late Jan, will you be in JT?

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 08:06pm PT

Cause another 30 feet of rope is just so hard to coil...

Kannonnn... if you have ever humped your rack and stuff a long way uphill you would not make such a dumb statement.

nutjob

Gym climber

Berkeley, CA

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:08pm PT

Yet another benefit of habitually climbing with two skinnier ropes. No need for belayer to pay attention to the halfway point!

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 08:09pm PT

Pine Creek is not a climbing gym.

herm.... you couda fooled me.

Yet another benefit of habitually climbing with two skinnier ropes. No need for belayer to pay attention to the halfway point!]

I like using 2 skinny cords, but now I need to buy one of those heavy one-demential, single use sport-climbing rope.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:11pm PT

Get with the times... the standards change.

70M ropes are not a standard by any means. 99% of the time it just means buying, hauling around, untangling and otherwise dealing with an extra 30+ feet of rope. That said,

Those Bishop boys (and girls) are doing some nice work in Pine Creek. On my recent visit I did several good relatively new climbs there. Two really stick in my memory for quality, Three Hour Arete (the crux is a very exposed but well protected boulder problem in the sky,) and the John Fisher Memorial. The Arete is four pitches and the JFM is as I recall 7 or 8, all set up to rap with a 70. JFM has lots of variety, the tips crack is choice.

We did the arete with my 8.5x60 doubles 'cause we had no 70. It worked but was kind of a pia. I did JFM with a partner who had a 70 which worked fine.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 08:14pm PT

So they have placed SHORT RAP STATIONS?

Great... more bolts and chains to muck up the place.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:19pm PT

What if the route and its features end at 140 feet?

good to know, now I'll bring 2 ropes, like I've always done :) hehehehe

Rolfr

Social climber

North Vancouver BC

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:21pm PT

But the real question is WTF is going on with the price of ropes? Seems like a majority of the ropes I was considering were 70 meters.
Super Sizing?

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:43pm PT

ropes are for sailors

No ropes on a ship, sailors call them lines. Lines that control sails are sheets.

Arguably there is one rope on a ship, a bolt rope

70 meter ropes suck, climbed with one this summer and I am opting for a 60m

Nick

climber

portland, Oregon

Dec 10, 2012 - 08:47pm PT

Yo Guy,

70 meter ropes rock. You can rap off multipitch sport climbs with one rope. The regular route on Fairview goes in six pitches with every belay on a nice ledge. You can use the rope to build the anchor and not worry about running out of rope on the pitch. 9.x X 70 m ropes are lighter then the old 11mm 150ft cords of the swami belt and hip belay days.

The only place short cords belong are on alpine routes, where the wondering nature and frequent belay stances make them the tool of choice.

Get with the times dude. Only kidding,Sort of... Hope you are well.

Did a few of those sport routes in Pine Creek last summer, good fun.

Epic E

Big Wall climber

Dec 10, 2012 - 09:17pm PT

These routes where all rap bolted and they should be chopped, they all could have been put up on lead.

Stewart Johnson

climber

lake forest

Dec 10, 2012 - 09:17pm PT

Wow! you didnt get the memo?

this just in

climber

north fork

Dec 10, 2012 - 09:28pm PT

Wow you're complaining about climbs your friend did? And bitching that if you wanna climb them that you have to buy a seventy or take two ropes? First world problems.

Chief

climber

The NW edge of The Hudson Bay

Dec 10, 2012 - 10:00pm PT

Remember the good old days when 50m x 11mm ropes were standard?
These days, sport routes rigged for 70 meter ropes are normal and single ropes often sub 10mm.
I'll probably end up with a 70 specifically for sport climbing as a matter of choice, not obligation.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 10, 2012 - 10:02pm PT

First off I don't think the routes I did were rap bolted. And there's a picture on Mtn Pjct of the FA of 3 Hour Arete, the dude is leading.

Permission to speak freely?

Not to be critical, because I really had fun on the routes I did there and look forward to next time, but...

If I were doing the FA of JFM, instead of 7 30+ meter pitches, I'd do 4 pitches or so, longer. You'd need two ropes to rap. You'd get up faster, and down much more easily. I realize you'd have to figure it out just right, where to locate the belay/rap stations because those long rappel pulls can easily hang up on that kind of terrain.

On 3 Hour Arete I wouldn't do anything differently, the belays are right where they belong, we got off in two raps with double 60's but on the first pull, from the top of the route down to the top of P2 the cord fell across into the gully left of the crux and got stuck - less than optimal. I was all set to redo the 3rd pitch to get it back, but my partner, Dan McHale is both strong and persistent and with his mighty pull the rope came free.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 10, 2012 - 10:03pm PT

70m is the new 150.' Life goes on. Get used to it. Did a 70 stretcher Saturday, 20 yr old route, not sport.

Unless you live by a low rise home crag,why bother with a short rope?

happiegrrrl

Trad climber

www.climbaddictdesigns.com

Dec 10, 2012 - 10:45pm PT

I will climb, but always find a way to conveniently be busy when it comes time to coiling...

I am in JT now, and likely will be for several months. But...I don't remember who you are. Wojtek? I can't think of any other Canadians I know.

F10

Trad climber

Bishop

Dec 10, 2012 - 11:14pm PT

It used to be a 120' with each of us on a bowline on a coil, didn't get to far
Then a 150' and on to a 165' (50m)
Then I thought what am i doing with a 60m wtf is it with this extra rope.....
Yeah i've been using a 70 or 60m rope depending on where i'm heading
There are people using 80 and 100m ropes, holy cow
Times change, sh#t just bring two of those 120's I started with and you should make it down just fine

And yes there are many fine routes in Pine Creek

Rolfr

Social climber

North Vancouver BC

Dec 11, 2012 - 12:14am PT

Happiegirl, see PM

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Dec 11, 2012 - 02:11am PT

These routes where all rap bolted and they should be chopped, they all could have been put up on lead.

Seriously?

I heard the ratings there are kind of soft compared to old school areas like Tahquitz and the valley too. Although I have not done much in there. Only Pratt's crack which I thought was quite cool so are a few pumpy face climbs next to it. Would be nice to try those new routes. Too bad they are rap bolted and require a 70. I had mine stolen from a friend's house by some Mexicans. Only have a 60 now.

PS: It should be up to FA team how long the pitches are.

RyanD

climber

Squamish

Dec 11, 2012 - 03:21am PT

Flamethrower is awesome too! Get a 70 make your life easy.

Jennie

Trad climber

Elk Creek, Idaho

Dec 11, 2012 - 03:38am PT

I just use a 60 in the Tetons. It works for the standard rap on the Grand and just about every other application in the range

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Dec 11, 2012 - 04:45am PT

I love 70 meter ropes for running pitches together on route like east butt of middle and royal arches, even galactic hitchhiker

LONG ago I gave Klaus a little grief for putting up an El Cap route that required 60 meter ropes when people were still on 50 meter ropes. If you know Klaus, you can imagine how little he cared for that feedback

Peace

Karl

cowpoke

climber

Dec 11, 2012 - 09:44am PT

this has gotta be a troll, right? I keep cracking up thinking about getting irked because 70 meters is now MANDATORY.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 11, 2012 - 10:00am PT

Not a joke. At most crags they suspend your punchcard if you don't have a 70!

FRUMY

Trad climber

SHERMAN OAKS,CA

Dec 11, 2012 - 11:13am PT

Why don't we all start packing 140m ropes.

There are no ropes on a ship (boat). You learn your ropes on a ship, but there are no ropes on a ship. There are lines, there are sheets, and many other thing made out of rope, but there are no ropes.

There are good reasons for 60m to be the standard in climbing.

TFSTFU

Trad climber

Utah

Dec 11, 2012 - 11:18am PT

Wtf is a 60 mm or 140 mm rope there Mr. technicality?

Chinchen

climber

Way out there....

Dec 11, 2012 - 11:20am PT

Guy, stay away from the Eastside. It sucks balls here. Pine Creek is choss and the longer nature of the climbs makes them harder......and that is no fun.
I will ask Austin, but I am pretty sure 3 hour arete was put up on lead. But really , who cares when you are repeating it?

JFMR is a great route, the belay stations are all at logical points, Tai does however tend to put up idiotproof routes....

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Dec 11, 2012 - 11:20am PT

80 is the new 70

RP3

Big Wall climber

El Portal/Chapel Hill

Dec 11, 2012 - 11:24am PT

Man....even a 70 wont even allow you to get off of Outer Limits 1st pitch. This is BS. They should have put in the anchor lower so we can just use a 60!

Just kidding. I guess I fail to see the problem. If a pitch is too long to lower off of, just get a longer rope or bring a 2nd. I feel like this DEFINITELY goes under the "1st world problems" category

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2012 - 11:43am PT

Thank you all for your well thought out answers.

This is a FIRST WORLD problem cause it involves climbing I reckon.

I’ll go with Nick’s advice, bite the bullet, and pay a ton for an extra-long cord that will still will require me to lug a second cord when I go to the Needles or the Valley or who knows where.

I still think that the numbers of injury’s will increase from stupid belay, drop mistakes.

Call me old if you will, but I can now relate to Chuck Willts.

End of Rant.

climber

Dec 11, 2012 - 12:04pm PT

Since Pine Creek is part of the subject, a side note about Bighorn sheep seems to be in order:

From the north end of the Wheeler crest to the end of Pine Cr. road, at the level of the first band of cliffs, is critical Bighorn sheep WINTER habitat. When they are disturbed by people and dogs, they are forced to move up, which puts them into avalanche zone.
Obviously, this is particularly true after storms.
This adds to the dangers they face, including starvation and mountain lion attacks. Yes, it's rough out there...

Officials of the Bighorn Sheep Foundation and Fish and Game are monitoring closely climber impact. There is a very real possibility of closing off the area.
Every effort should be made by climbers at this time, to reduce the amount of disturbance to the sheep.
The numbers will be the deciding factor, because a few occasional climbers will not cause significant impact, but a steady influx, especially if accompanied by dogs, will have consequences.
Avoid going there after storms and restrain your dogs, (or, better yet, don't bring them).
If we want to avoid government intervention, please be considerate.

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Dec 11, 2012 - 12:11pm PT

even a 70 wont even allow you to get off of Outer Limits 1st pitch.

Not true at all. 70 will get you down from that climb.

70m is very nice to have for cragging in Indian creek, linking pitches on alpine climbs/walls/whatever, longer rappells, etc etc. Lots of advantages. Whoever says it sucks because it weights a tad more should lose some weight. Especially for Pine Creek- the crag is whole 5 minutes of casual walking from the car.

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Latitute 33

Dec 11, 2012 - 12:26pm PT

70 meters is so yesterday. We've been using them for sport cragging (including Pine Creek) for years.

You can cut them into thirds when their toast and they make good gym lead ropes.

The only down side is that coiling them fatigues my old wasting arms.

Fletcher

Trad climber

The rock doesn't care what I think

Dec 11, 2012 - 12:43pm PT

I recently bought a 60m meter rope on one of those one-off at a time deal sites (yeah, it was stored next to the battery acid department). So the thing shows up and I'm thinking, "fuk, this dog is heavy!" It was a beefy 10.5, but still. Then I look at the tag and it's a 70m! I get in touch with the battery disposal department and they tell me they ran out of 60s (must have been all of you geezers here snapping them up), so they just sent me a 70. I appreciated the thought, but....

One of the times for me where more was less. I might use a 70 for certain things, but my plans for this rope did not include me lugging it around in that state. So I cut 10m off and was done with it!

> There are no ropes on a ship (boat). You learn your ropes on a ship, but there
> are no ropes on a ship. There are lines, there are sheets, and many other thing
> made out of rope, but there are no ropes.

Sort of. My grandfather was in the Coast Guard in WWII and he always had a couple of power boats at his home on Cape Cod. He was always giving me sh#t for calling a "line" a "rope." But there are ropes on boats. As he reminded me a bazillion times, a rope is an inch or thicker in diameter. Anything less is a line.

Now somebody is going to go look up the definitive net reference and prove me wrong. And that my grandpa was full of it. But that's ok, I already know that he was! :-)

Eric

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Dec 11, 2012 - 12:50pm PT

The only down side is that coiling them fatigues my old wasting arms.

Convicted from his own mouth - the CE requirement is use of a certified rope receptacle, due to the hazards that coiled ropes present.

RP3

Big Wall climber

El Portal/Chapel Hill

Dec 11, 2012 - 02:36pm PT

Yeah Vitaliy, I stand corrected...

But a 60 won't...right? I remember being there once with a rope that was too short, and I have never owned anything shorter than a 60. My point was that many classics need either a longer rope or two ropes and this is not solely an issue brought up by long modern sport climbs.

Cheers,
Roger

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Dec 11, 2012 - 03:07pm PT

But a 60 won't...right? I remember being there once with a rope that was too short, and I have never owned anything shorter than a 60. My point was that many classics need either a longer rope or two ropes and this is not solely an issue brought up by long modern sport climbs.

Lol, tough question. When I led it, I was unable to get down with a 60. Friend connected our other rope to the end of one I was on. But last weekend I was at the same crag and a couple was able to get down with stretch on something they claimed was a 60M. I would use a 70 though :)

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Dec 11, 2012 - 03:11pm PT

Wow, poor Guyzo. Quite the shitstorm unleashed upon him for a simple observation/grouse. Like that never happens on this site.

Personally, my current rope is OLD and when I get around to finally replacing this winter, it'll be a 70. Sure they're heavier, but skinny. It'll still weigh less than my old 10.5 x 60 m.

ladyscarlett

Trad climber

SF Bay Area, California

Dec 11, 2012 - 03:16pm PT

as a being with short arms and legs...i can definitely feel the difference between coiling a 60 and a 70. Actually takes me a measurably longer time to get it all neat. Feels heavier too, which totally slows me down on the approach and decsent.

This is all because I'm a weakling newb trying to train up, so I'll always take the rope. Hopefully the 80 will get popular and I can start training for realzzz!

after all, how else can I keep up my 'sherpa' image to keep the tourons from asking me inane questions?

heheh

cheers

LS

msiddens

Trad climber

Dec 11, 2012 - 03:16pm PT

different strokes.........personally I love the single 70 to get down but then again more bolts and all that.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 11, 2012 - 03:44pm PT

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Dec 11, 2012 - 08:34pm PT

I feel your pain Guyman. 70 meter ropes while good for sport climbing and places like IC are a damned nuisance for multi pitch climbing.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 11:30am PT

Jim gets IT.....

Going to go rope shopping, thank you-all for the comments, advise, jabbs, etc..... I just love the TACO climbers.

Thanks.

Fletcher

Trad climber

The rock doesn't care what I think

Dec 12, 2012 - 12:56pm PT

There's a different tool for every job. You can always improvise, but YMMV.

Longer ropes are going to tend to be appreciated on sport routes. Maybe not so much when you're placing trad gear and having to trek a ways to get to the climb.

But geez guys, at the end of the day, the gear helps you but it's still you who is going to get the job done. Not the other way around. Or in other words, "That's a really nice $10,000 bike, but on its own it won't help me beat Wiggins."

Now, that said, as someone with an Irish last name who grew up amongst many New England Irish, I new a lot of guys who had only one tool in their quiver and used it for all jobs, from the delicate to gross destruction:

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 12, 2012 - 12:58pm PT

In the BITD daze Earl Wiggins climbed in the Black with a 300' 9mil. He could do incredibly long pitches quickly or double it up when it got spicy.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 01:06pm PT

The Chief.... I never said... Rap Bolt, at all. Please re-read if confused.

So yes I know 150 goldline was the sh#t... I still have one in the old climbing box.

150 was a long one too, by the way, the Old Timers used 140's

But what is the point of a 70?

They do come up short when you need to come down...

Have a nice day.... please.

survival

Big Wall climber

Terrapin Station

Dec 12, 2012 - 01:16pm PT

I feel your pain Guyman. 70 meter ropes while good for sport climbing and places like IC are a damned nuisance for multi pitch climbing.

No shizzle.

I don't mind a long rope for a day of close to the road sport that was designed around such a thing, but hauling a 70, and the extra weight for a day on a multi-pitch that was designed around something else is a DRAG, so to speak.

And no, all of us don't have the cash to have multiple ropes and multiple racks for all these "genres."

FRUMY

Trad climber

SHERMAN OAKS,CA

Dec 12, 2012 - 01:25pm PT

What a drag --- 50m was cool, 55ma little extra for safety but you starting to get a bit of rope drag --- 60m and i'm at my limit of comfortable drag --- 70m WTF.

I see folks with all this money spent on light gear & then they drag along a 70m rope.

survival

Big Wall climber

Terrapin Station

Dec 12, 2012 - 01:28pm PT

Good post Ron.

But what can we do?

NOTHING?

WBraun

climber

Dec 12, 2012 - 01:31pm PT

70mm rope is not heavy if you use a 9.2mm.

I've seen most of you people on the lead with huge racks of sh!t weighing a ton.

Then you complain about a few extra ounces for a 70meter rope.

So stupid ......

TFSTFU

Trad climber

Utah

Dec 12, 2012 - 01:31pm PT

Frumy it's a god damned m not mm.

cowpoke

climber

Dec 12, 2012 - 01:42pm PT

70mm = 7cm = .07m

pretty short rope for most climbs

edit to add a picture of my new 70mm rope...don't know the diameter, but it is wicked light

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 01:46pm PT

OK.... I need all you other PIE EATERS.... who ever you are to know this fact:

The climbs in Pine Creek, are not rap bolted, except the ones that are.

But Back on topic... a 80 meter rope is just plain stupid, IMHO.

Why not buy 100 meters of rope, cut it in half, and use as doubles!

Problem solved, full circle.

Ron... great idea! chop the NOSE down to one pitch.

But what if I wish to be lowered?????

Where are they going to put the Musseys???

RP3

Big Wall climber

El Portal/Chapel Hill

Dec 12, 2012 - 01:47pm PT

Funny...I also tend to think the extra meters are great for multipitch climbing. You can link more pitches and climb faster!

Cry me a river about the weight. A typical 9.6 mm rope weighs around 60 g/m. So a 70 m rope, being 10 m longer, weighs 600 g. 600 g = 1.33 lbs The average American turd weighs about a pound. So I guess this is only a problem if you have not taken a dump that morning, or ate a particularly big breakfast.

ok...i need to get back to work...

Big Mike

Trad climber

Dec 12, 2012 - 02:02pm PT

I agree. Linking pitches is the way to go. The extra mobility far outweighs the couple extra pounds. If short pitches are unavoidable though, hauling the extra slack sucks... 6 of one,'half dozen of the other. This is where the quiver concept comes in. Use the right tool for the job.

cowpoke

climber

Dec 12, 2012 - 02:05pm PT

"on belay" struggle grunt -fart- Off Belay,, cmon up!

OK, I'm on, but pull in some of that slack!

RyanD

climber

Squamish

Dec 12, 2012 - 02:24pm PT

Yep if you ever climbed a nice long 70m pitch you would probably start shopping for an 80. Climbing is fun, belaying is not. Longer pitches = less belaying.

Rhodo-Router

Gym climber

sawatch choss

Dec 12, 2012 - 03:25pm PT

In which the crusty old has-beens further flog yet another long-dead horse into oblivion.

Do you guys know what you sound like?

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Dec 12, 2012 - 03:44pm PT

This entire issue is just plain.... "stupid".

No, this issue is not 'stupid.' This issue is personal preference. Some people like thicker ropes some people like longer ropes, some prefer doubles, or whatever. I understand Guyman, but this is for sure a 'First World Problem' LOL. Sometimes you need a 70M/2 60s, or w/e to rap a specific route, this is the way it is! Sorry.

It is up to an individual to decide which rope THEY want, and up to them to pick routes they want to do. Up to FA party to decide where to place rap stations or put in bolts for pro, or for belay stations. If one wants to climb their route, it is their problem to get appropriate gear (whatever that is).

I like 70s for linking pitches. I would like to have a thinner 70m for for alpine climbs with short approaches (like Bugaboos or Hulk in CA), thick 70 for fixing 2 pitches on a wall with one rope (if possible), or for owens river gorge/indian creek cragging, but now I have a thick 60m rope/doubles and am just fine with what I have. Want does not mean need.

survival

Big Wall climber

Terrapin Station

Dec 12, 2012 - 03:57pm PT

This entire issue is just plain.... "stupid".

Absolutely not.

Obviously one can't lead a 2,000 ft. pitch even with tiny cord.

Many areas and pitches wander more, with more trad pro ( and more weight) required.

Carry the right tool for the right job is great advice, but some folks just can't afford a huge number of tools.

So what is the tool that most effectively covers the greatest number of jobs is the real question.

Please don't treat others like they're stupid.

This entire issue is just plain.... "stupid".

If it was that simple, all of us would just have long ass ropes wouldn't we?

survival

Big Wall climber

Terrapin Station

Dec 12, 2012 - 04:23pm PT

Good point chief.

But:

This is not the gym.

I didn't say a damn word about the gym, and it's lame to even try that connect the dots.

RP3

Big Wall climber

El Portal/Chapel Hill

Dec 12, 2012 - 04:24pm PT

Amen, Rob

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 04:26pm PT

Are you having a bad day at the office Guy???

No not at all, but, The Chief, when you greated me with this:

C'mon Guy.... jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!

I sort of figgured you were. ;>)

and Vitality... your right, but I like my 50m doubles at about 9.0mm,
I can lead with them at the same time, thus no one drags a cord behind.

;>) be happy

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Dec 12, 2012 - 04:31pm PT

I have tried both 60 and 70 for multi pitch and have found a 60 to be more efficient when all factors are weighed.....no pun intended.

crusher

climber

Santa Monica, CA

Dec 12, 2012 - 04:39pm PT

Shouldn't we just be thankful that someone put up these SPORT routes for us to enjoy? If you don't have a 70 or don't want to buy one, use 2 shorter ropes like Werner said...

crusher

climber

Santa Monica, CA

Dec 12, 2012 - 04:42pm PT

Ha ha. We must all be bored today to argue about something like this...funny.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 12, 2012 - 04:42pm PT

Having the second trail a cord is the worst of all possible options, a recipe for an epic anyplace where the wind blows...

I like doing traditional multipitch with 8.5x60M doubles. 200 ft pitches seem like plenty, 200 ft raps are great.

Seems like there's two different arguments here for the 70. On the one hand there is the business of linking or doing longer pitches. Yeah I saw Mat Samet and Mike Reardon do Atlantis (a 4 pitch 5.11 Needles classic) in two pitches with a 70. Extra drag etc was not a factor for them since they put in about two pieces on each pitch. I don't tend to climb like that, and the regular belays on that route are fine with me. And with my doubles if it rains I am off way faster than with one 70.

On the other hand there is the business of setting up routes with a bunch of 35M pitches to rap with a 70. In some cases this might make sense as dictated by the features of the route but in a lot of cases this just makes a four pitch climb into seven or so.

My .02 is that if you want to set up your sport climbs for long ropes more power to you. Think twice about the multipitch though, in a lot of cases you're actually making artificially short pitches to avoid the need of two ropes (assuming the best descent is by rappel.)

LuckyPink

climber

the last bivy

Dec 12, 2012 - 04:57pm PT

the point being missed:
the whole rope this or that is a marketing decoy to get you to buy more and more expensive ropes. You can get an excellent 9.8 60m rope for just under $100. I spent $85 on my last one a month ago. It will be sturdy and wear well. You can get a bicolor double dry 9.8 70m for $250-$290, you will get much less time on it before it wears. I've stopped buying them.

Edit: +1 for doubles

TFSTFU

Trad climber

Utah

Dec 12, 2012 - 05:10pm PT

85 bucks? What did u get a used static that was found on the "real nose"?

LuckyPink

climber

the last bivy

Dec 12, 2012 - 05:15pm PT

nope, brand new spanky Eldrid.. do your research, bud and save a few bucks

Enthusiast

Sport climber

Port Townsend WA

Dec 12, 2012 - 05:43pm PT

One person mentions sport climbing and this becomes a total bitch fest.

snowhazed

Trad climber

Oaksterdam, CA

Dec 12, 2012 - 06:02pm PT

I climbed the Polish route on the hulk in 3 pitches with no drag thanks to my 80M rope. 80 meters brings you exactly to perfect belay ledges each time. It was effing awesome.

I say bring on the nano-engineered dental floss- 300M of feather weight line that self-untangles, tells you how much rope is left in a sexy voice, and advises you when to runner a piece. I'm going to set all sorts of routes with it, and all of you are going to get panty-twisted all over again.

Captain...or Skully

climber

Dec 12, 2012 - 06:04pm PT

Sport climbing is lame, anyway. Non issue.

cowpoke

climber

Dec 12, 2012 - 07:12pm PT

Conspiracy, perhaps?

Mandatory retirement age for judges in PA = 70!
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/11/14/pennsylvania-judges-sue-over-mandatory-retirement-provision/

Mandatory IRA distributions = age 70!
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/2011-03-28-april-1-ira-deadline-your-rmoney.htm?csp=34

Mandatory 70 mpg movements!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=546_1218617246

And, now, climbing rope length...just sayin.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Dec 12, 2012 - 08:12pm PT

My first rope was a 40m Goldline.

When I bought a 90m 9mm Edelrid bicolor in 1974 I felt like Superman.

Nick

climber

portland, Oregon

Dec 12, 2012 - 09:25pm PT

Seems to me it all depends. Most of time I have been really happy to climb on a 70. Smith has all these really fun multi-pitch sport routes that you can climb with a rack of draws and a 70 then rap off after after 4-7 pitches of fun. At most of the traditional places I climb ,I like the extra rope to extend a pitch to a nice ledge, link pitches, use the rope for setting up all the anchors or set up a top rope on nearby stuff just to put in some miles. (Guy remember doing all the routes around the great circle on a 70?) On routes that require full length raps to get off, doubles are the tool of choice, although I find them a pain in the rear. For alpine or long routes with plenty of ledges a 60 is great, hell even a 40 would work. Lots of those old routes were put up with a 120 ft goldlines.
Come on up Guy and we can pull out the good stuff.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 12, 2012 - 09:32pm PT

Kris, had you used them on any of the routes in PC that you enjoyed, that would have been the biggest clusterfk and shet wrapped up in the small pinions and other bushes after each pull that, welll ...

Rick,

I did not suggest using the doubles there. I said "multipitch trad."

McHale and I did use them on 3 Hour Arete (it's what we had,) if you go back and find my post upthread you'll see that we did have a rappel hang up.

Guangzhou

Trad climber

Asia, Indonesia, East Java

Dec 12, 2012 - 11:19pm PT

I haven't been climbing so long, but I remember hearing people complaining when ropes norms changed to 50 meters. A lot of people were unhappy when routes that used 60 meters ropes became the norm, but now, just about everyone owns a 60meter. In some places, buying a 50meter rope is almost impossible.

Changes changes changes.

Eman

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2012 - 12:29am PT

Wow... good to see ya Nick and Kris... and everyone else.

So, yes this topic started out as a little bitch of mine. When Kris told me he returned from Pine Creak and had done these fab climbs, but you need to have a 70m ... I started thinking cause its time to purchase a new cord because nobody will use mine! Ropes cost a lot, but I don't mine paying but I don't wish to buy 3 different set ups.

Lots of you have advocated 70 because you can do long pitches, and this is true.... to a point of nonsense.(3,100 ft cord for the Nose)

It was pointed out that a x.x 70m is light.... I agree, how can you argue?

Also, the fact that at Multi-pitch sport areas 70 is standard.

What has not been pointed out is this: Longer pitches means fewer Belays that take up valuable time to set up, break down.

The "cons" seem to be that a 70 will not allow one to do the raps needed.

This is my major issue

So after reading every post I reckon I have learned this:

Not one rope length, or diameter is best, rather different ones will do a better job given the situation.

So that being said, I hope that the folks doing FA's will be kind enuf to inform the public about what length cord they used.

Because it will suck when I try to get off something when I have my 2 70m cords and the FA's used 2x 100m ropes to get down.

Oh yea This is my vote for the best reply to this topic.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 13, 2012 - 01:09am PT

Not a clusterf*#k, a brief delay but less than optimal none the less.

When you rap 3 Hour with a 70, do you rap from the top of the route to the top of P2 in one go? If so the same thing could happen with a 70 as happened to us. One end fell across into the gulley on the far side of the arete and got caught on something there. We never saw what it stuck on because Dan pulled it free with some effort.

We got off in two raps, the top of P2 to the ground pulled easily with a bit of care to avoid the bushes up there.

They are very fun routes and the best way to do them, as designed, is with a 70.

Oh, I'll take a tit over a tat any day..;-)

MisterE

Social climber

Dec 13, 2012 - 01:13am PT

86 is the new 70.

Yer slackin' with the rope-wah.

Greg Barnes

climber

Dec 13, 2012 - 01:30am PT

Thought this would be about some new runout multipitch slab routes put up with 220' pitches...then it would be "MANDATORY" not just inconvenient...

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Dec 13, 2012 - 09:29am PT

Use the appropriate length for the climb you're on. More interesting to me have been the advances that have led to smaller diameter ropes. I now use an 8.9 single for sport and a 9.2 for trad multi pitch. Length is all about preference, diameter changes are a function of improved technology.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Dec 13, 2012 - 12:05pm PT

regardless of what diameter Stoney point could always use a good rope donation.

my first rope was a bluewater which was 50m.

guyzo donini has said good stuff.