70 meter ropes MANDATORY???? WTF???

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guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 10, 2012 - 06:57pm PT
A friend of mine just returned from the east side and he reported that there are new very cool sport climbs up in Pine Creek and elsewise.

One thing though…. All these new climbs are about 35 meters from the anchor to the dirt.

So if this is true, I need to start using a freaking 70 meter rope, I hate those things.

What is with you all?????

Adamame

climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:00pm PT
Get with the times... the standards change.

edit: in some place the 80m rope is becoming a standard
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
Snooze.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
life is all about choices. lets say the first ascent party is climbin and at 30m the climb starts to get really good. should they do two pitches cuz your a whiner? or maybe they ought to keep on climbin? or perhaps they might expect that the next climbers can either have a longer rope or an additional rope so they can get their sorry ass off in one piece? what do you think?

so 70m ropes are not mandatory but if you are going to climb more than one rope length then perhaps a second rope is. if thats too inconvenient for you then can i suggest bowling?
WBraun

climber
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
I need to start using a freaking 70 meter rope,

Why?

Just pull the lead line up and out off all the draws and then drop it back to the ground.

Tie on your second rope and then lower off.

It will require 2 ropes but so what.

Now you don't need to buy a 70 meter rope.

Not unless you're just complaining for complaining sakes?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
Ropes are getting thinner, so a new 70 probably weighs about similar as a couple years old 60. If you are local to an area putting up longer routes, or travel enough, it makes sense to at least have a 70 so you aren't hosed when you need it.

But I know I wasn't happy when a climbing partner showed up to the Gunks a couple years ago with their new 70. I was like "I may be seconding, but you can coil your own new toy!"

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:16pm PT
Werner, in the afterlife...

you can be my second any day. I can tell, you've got a good brain when it comes to rope savvy.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
ropes are for sailors
Evel

Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:42pm PT
Last summer my partner broke out his new 100 meter line. That's a lotta rope!
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
Just bring a bunch of bail biners
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
so 70m ropes are not mandatory but if you are going to climb more than one rope length then perhaps a second rope is. if thats too inconvenient for you then can i suggest bowling?


Hawkeye..... I am pretty good at bowling, but I think it is lame.

I know just what to do when climbing any climb, BUT after reading about the poor girl who fell a long way at the ORG, glad she lived to tell the tale. I am struck by the total lack of thought of the new breed who are putting in SPORT CLIMBS.

Is this some new way to get more business into Inyo, Mono County emergency rooms and keep the SAR folks busy?

Why?

Just pull the lead line up and out off all the draws and then drop it back to the ground.

Tie on your second rope and then lower off.

It will require 2 ropes but so what.

Now you don't need to buy a 70 meter rope.

Not unless you're just complaining for complaining sakes?

No, Herr Braun, not complaining just saying...

So when you need to go climb where you have no knowlege of the climbs... adventure trad.. and you might need to rap off, that single 70 m rope will not do squat, so you suposed to carry 2 70 meter anchors?


I am just saying,.... and anyway how do you determine just where to put the anchors at? The crux is usuly above the anchors. (attempt at funny)


snowhazed

Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
Who the hell cares about sport climbing?
herm

Trad climber
Bishop
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
Pine Creek is not a climbing gym.
Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
Happie girl, the only duodess rope I could find at the co-op was a 70meter, does that mean you won't climb with me at JT this winter?
I'm coming down from the Great White North in late Jan, will you be in JT?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
Cause another 30 feet of rope is just so hard to coil...

Kannonnn... if you have ever humped your rack and stuff a long way uphill you would not make such a dumb statement.
nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:08pm PT
Yet another benefit of habitually climbing with two skinnier ropes. No need for belayer to pay attention to the halfway point!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 08:09pm PT

Pine Creek is not a climbing gym.

herm.... you couda fooled me.



Yet another benefit of habitually climbing with two skinnier ropes. No need for belayer to pay attention to the halfway point!]

I like using 2 skinny cords, but now I need to buy one of those heavy one-demential, single use sport-climbing rope.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
Get with the times... the standards change.

70M ropes are not a standard by any means. 99% of the time it just means buying, hauling around, untangling and otherwise dealing with an extra 30+ feet of rope. That said,

Those Bishop boys (and girls) are doing some nice work in Pine Creek. On my recent visit I did several good relatively new climbs there. Two really stick in my memory for quality, Three Hour Arete (the crux is a very exposed but well protected boulder problem in the sky,) and the John Fisher Memorial. The Arete is four pitches and the JFM is as I recall 7 or 8, all set up to rap with a 70. JFM has lots of variety, the tips crack is choice.

We did the arete with my 8.5x60 doubles 'cause we had no 70. It worked but was kind of a pia. I did JFM with a partner who had a 70 which worked fine.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 08:14pm PT
So they have placed SHORT RAP STATIONS?

Great... more bolts and chains to muck up the place.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:19pm PT
What if the route and its features end at 140 feet?

good to know, now I'll bring 2 ropes, like I've always done :) hehehehe
Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:21pm PT
But the real question is WTF is going on with the price of ropes? Seems like a majority of the ropes I was considering were 70 meters.
Super Sizing?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:43pm PT
ropes are for sailors

No ropes on a ship, sailors call them lines. Lines that control sails are sheets.

Arguably there is one rope on a ship, a bolt rope

70 meter ropes suck, climbed with one this summer and I am opting for a 60m
Nick

climber
portland, Oregon
Dec 10, 2012 - 08:47pm PT
Yo Guy,

70 meter ropes rock. You can rap off multipitch sport climbs with one rope. The regular route on Fairview goes in six pitches with every belay on a nice ledge. You can use the rope to build the anchor and not worry about running out of rope on the pitch. 9.x X 70 m ropes are lighter then the old 11mm 150ft cords of the swami belt and hip belay days.

The only place short cords belong are on alpine routes, where the wondering nature and frequent belay stances make them the tool of choice.

Get with the times dude. Only kidding,Sort of... Hope you are well.

Did a few of those sport routes in Pine Creek last summer, good fun.
Epic E

Big Wall climber
CA
Dec 10, 2012 - 09:17pm PT
These routes where all rap bolted and they should be chopped, they all could have been put up on lead.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Dec 10, 2012 - 09:17pm PT
Wow! you didnt get the memo?
this just in

climber
north fork
Dec 10, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
Wow you're complaining about climbs your friend did? And bitching that if you wanna climb them that you have to buy a seventy or take two ropes? First world problems.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
Remember the good old days when 50m x 11mm ropes were standard?
These days, sport routes rigged for 70 meter ropes are normal and single ropes often sub 10mm.
I'll probably end up with a 70 specifically for sport climbing as a matter of choice, not obligation.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:02pm PT
First off I don't think the routes I did were rap bolted. And there's a picture on Mtn Pjct of the FA of 3 Hour Arete, the dude is leading.

Permission to speak freely?

Not to be critical, because I really had fun on the routes I did there and look forward to next time, but...

If I were doing the FA of JFM, instead of 7 30+ meter pitches, I'd do 4 pitches or so, longer. You'd need two ropes to rap. You'd get up faster, and down much more easily. I realize you'd have to figure it out just right, where to locate the belay/rap stations because those long rappel pulls can easily hang up on that kind of terrain.

On 3 Hour Arete I wouldn't do anything differently, the belays are right where they belong, we got off in two raps with double 60's but on the first pull, from the top of the route down to the top of P2 the cord fell across into the gully left of the crux and got stuck - less than optimal. I was all set to redo the 3rd pitch to get it back, but my partner, Dan McHale is both strong and persistent and with his mighty pull the rope came free.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:03pm PT
70m is the new 150.' Life goes on. Get used to it. Did a 70 stretcher Saturday, 20 yr old route, not sport.

Unless you live by a low rise home crag,why bother with a short rope?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:45pm PT
Happie girl, the only duodess rope I could find at the co-op was a 70meter, does that mean you won't climb with me at JT this winter?
I'm coming down from the Great White North in late Jan, will you be in JT?

I will climb, but always find a way to conveniently be busy when it comes time to coiling...

I am in JT now, and likely will be for several months. But...I don't remember who you are. Wojtek? I can't think of any other Canadians I know.
F10

Trad climber
Bishop
Dec 10, 2012 - 11:14pm PT
It used to be a 120' with each of us on a bowline on a coil, didn't get to far
Then a 150' and on to a 165' (50m)
Then I thought what am i doing with a 60m wtf is it with this extra rope.....
Yeah i've been using a 70 or 60m rope depending on where i'm heading
There are people using 80 and 100m ropes, holy cow
Times change, sh#t just bring two of those 120's I started with and you should make it down just fine



And yes there are many fine routes in Pine Creek
Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:14am PT
Happiegirl, see PM
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 11, 2012 - 02:11am PT
These routes where all rap bolted and they should be chopped, they all could have been put up on lead.

Seriously?

I heard the ratings there are kind of soft compared to old school areas like Tahquitz and the valley too. Although I have not done much in there. Only Pratt's crack which I thought was quite cool so are a few pumpy face climbs next to it. Would be nice to try those new routes. Too bad they are rap bolted and require a 70. I had mine stolen from a friend's house by some Mexicans. Only have a 60 now.

PS: It should be up to FA team how long the pitches are.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Dec 11, 2012 - 02:57am PT
When I climb with small people, every ounce counts on the approach.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 11, 2012 - 03:21am PT
Flamethrower is awesome too! Get a 70 make your life easy.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Dec 11, 2012 - 03:38am PT
I just use a 60 in the Tetons. It works for the standard rap on the Grand and just about every other application in the range
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2012 - 04:45am PT
I love 70 meter ropes for running pitches together on route like east butt of middle and royal arches, even galactic hitchhiker

LONG ago I gave Klaus a little grief for putting up an El Cap route that required 60 meter ropes when people were still on 50 meter ropes. If you know Klaus, you can imagine how little he cared for that feedback

Peace

Karl
cowpoke

climber
Dec 11, 2012 - 09:44am PT
this has gotta be a troll, right? I keep cracking up thinking about getting irked because 70 meters is now MANDATORY.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 11, 2012 - 10:00am PT
Not a joke. At most crags they suspend your punchcard if you don't have a 70!
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Dec 11, 2012 - 10:06am PT
this has gotta be a troll, right? I keep cracking up thinking about getting irked because 70 meters is now MANDATORY.

It's not a troll. It's serious. There was IFSC and UIAA had recently adopted similar, but inconsistent rules on mandatory rope lengths for a single pitch climbs with fixed anchors/rappel descents.

Of course the Euros argued and couldn't come to an agreement, as they always do. So the UN Commission on Recreational Safety adopted a set of recommendations that were recently ratified. Now it is international law.

Anyone putting up a sport route of 30M or less will be getting a visit from some blue-helmeted, brown-skinned soldiers who speak with odd accents. They will chop your route.

Also, we all have to use the French grading system. You 5.12 climbers can only climb 7's now.

America is losing her sovereignty, folks. And it's not just about climbing. Mandatory rope lengths are just how they get their foot in the door. It's called "Agenda 21." Read more about it here:

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/12/05/morning-bell-agenda-21-and-the-threat-in-your-backyard/

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 11, 2012 - 10:10am PT

"Cause another 30 feet of rope is just so hard to coil"...



CORRECT!!!...


if you have ever humped your rack and stuff a long way uphill you would not make such a dumb statement."...


INCORRECT!!!
...




;-)






EDITED:

Happie wrote...



"Wojtek?"...

as in Wren???...

FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:13am PT
Why don't we all start packing 140m ropes.

There are no ropes on a ship (boat). You learn your ropes on a ship, but there are no ropes on a ship. There are lines, there are sheets, and many other thing made out of rope, but there are no ropes.

There are good reasons for 60m to be the standard in climbing.



TFSTFU

Trad climber
Utah
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:18am PT
Wtf is a 60 mm or 140 mm rope there Mr. technicality?
Chinchen

climber
Way out there....
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:20am PT
Guy, stay away from the Eastside. It sucks balls here. Pine Creek is choss and the longer nature of the climbs makes them harder......and that is no fun.
I will ask Austin, but I am pretty sure 3 hour arete was put up on lead. But really , who cares when you are repeating it?

JFMR is a great route, the belay stations are all at logical points, Tai does however tend to put up idiotproof routes....


Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:20am PT
80 is the new 70
RP3

Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:24am PT
Man....even a 70 wont even allow you to get off of Outer Limits 1st pitch. This is BS. They should have put in the anchor lower so we can just use a 60!

Just kidding. I guess I fail to see the problem. If a pitch is too long to lower off of, just get a longer rope or bring a 2nd. I feel like this DEFINITELY goes under the "1st world problems" category
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2012 - 11:43am PT
Thank you all for your well thought out answers.

This is a FIRST WORLD problem cause it involves climbing I reckon.

I’ll go with Nick’s advice, bite the bullet, and pay a ton for an extra-long cord that will still will require me to lug a second cord when I go to the Needles or the Valley or who knows where.

I still think that the numbers of injury’s will increase from stupid belay, drop mistakes.

Call me old if you will, but I can now relate to Chuck Willts.

End of Rant.
pa

climber
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
Since Pine Creek is part of the subject, a side note about Bighorn sheep seems to be in order:

From the north end of the Wheeler crest to the end of Pine Cr. road, at the level of the first band of cliffs, is critical Bighorn sheep WINTER habitat. When they are disturbed by people and dogs, they are forced to move up, which puts them into avalanche zone.
Obviously, this is particularly true after storms.
This adds to the dangers they face, including starvation and mountain lion attacks. Yes, it's rough out there...

Officials of the Bighorn Sheep Foundation and Fish and Game are monitoring closely climber impact. There is a very real possibility of closing off the area.
Every effort should be made by climbers at this time, to reduce the amount of disturbance to the sheep.
The numbers will be the deciding factor, because a few occasional climbers will not cause significant impact, but a steady influx, especially if accompanied by dogs, will have consequences.
Avoid going there after storms and restrain your dogs, (or, better yet, don't bring them).
If we want to avoid government intervention, please be considerate.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
even a 70 wont even allow you to get off of Outer Limits 1st pitch.

Not true at all. 70 will get you down from that climb.


70m is very nice to have for cragging in Indian creek, linking pitches on alpine climbs/walls/whatever, longer rappells, etc etc. Lots of advantages. Whoever says it sucks because it weights a tad more should lose some weight. Especially for Pine Creek- the crag is whole 5 minutes of casual walking from the car.
Silver

Gym climber
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
70 meter ropes are so last year I'm using an 73 meter rope now. All my routes are 36.45 meters.
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
70 meters is so yesterday. We've been using them for sport cragging (including Pine Creek) for years.

You can cut them into thirds when their toast and they make good gym lead ropes.

The only down side is that coiling them fatigues my old wasting arms.

Fletcher

Trad climber
The rock doesn't care what I think
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:43pm PT
I recently bought a 60m meter rope on one of those one-off at a time deal sites (yeah, it was stored next to the battery acid department). So the thing shows up and I'm thinking, "fuk, this dog is heavy!" It was a beefy 10.5, but still. Then I look at the tag and it's a 70m! I get in touch with the battery disposal department and they tell me they ran out of 60s (must have been all of you geezers here snapping them up), so they just sent me a 70. I appreciated the thought, but....

One of the times for me where more was less. I might use a 70 for certain things, but my plans for this rope did not include me lugging it around in that state. So I cut 10m off and was done with it!

> There are no ropes on a ship (boat). You learn your ropes on a ship, but there
> are no ropes on a ship. There are lines, there are sheets, and many other thing
> made out of rope, but there are no ropes.

Sort of. My grandfather was in the Coast Guard in WWII and he always had a couple of power boats at his home on Cape Cod. He was always giving me sh#t for calling a "line" a "rope." But there are ropes on boats. As he reminded me a bazillion times, a rope is an inch or thicker in diameter. Anything less is a line.

Now somebody is going to go look up the definitive net reference and prove me wrong. And that my grandpa was full of it. But that's ok, I already know that he was! :-)

Eric
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:45pm PT


ROFL!!!...

"I get in touch with the battery disposal department"...

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
The only down side is that coiling them fatigues my old wasting arms.

Convicted from his own mouth - the CE requirement is use of a certified rope receptacle, due to the hazards that coiled ropes present.
RP3

Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
Dec 11, 2012 - 02:36pm PT
Yeah Vitaliy, I stand corrected...

But a 60 won't...right? I remember being there once with a rope that was too short, and I have never owned anything shorter than a 60. My point was that many classics need either a longer rope or two ropes and this is not solely an issue brought up by long modern sport climbs.

Cheers,
Roger
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 11, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
But a 60 won't...right? I remember being there once with a rope that was too short, and I have never owned anything shorter than a 60. My point was that many classics need either a longer rope or two ropes and this is not solely an issue brought up by long modern sport climbs.

Lol, tough question. When I led it, I was unable to get down with a 60. Friend connected our other rope to the end of one I was on. But last weekend I was at the same crag and a couple was able to get down with stretch on something they claimed was a 60M. I would use a 70 though :)
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Dec 11, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
Wow, poor Guyzo. Quite the shitstorm unleashed upon him for a simple observation/grouse. Like that never happens on this site.

Personally, my current rope is OLD and when I get around to finally replacing this winter, it'll be a 70. Sure they're heavier, but skinny. It'll still weigh less than my old 10.5 x 60 m.
ladyscarlett

Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
Dec 11, 2012 - 03:16pm PT
as a being with short arms and legs...i can definitely feel the difference between coiling a 60 and a 70. Actually takes me a measurably longer time to get it all neat. Feels heavier too, which totally slows me down on the approach and decsent.

This is all because I'm a weakling newb trying to train up, so I'll always take the rope. Hopefully the 80 will get popular and I can start training for realzzz!

after all, how else can I keep up my 'sherpa' image to keep the tourons from asking me inane questions?

heheh

cheers

LS
msiddens

Trad climber
Dec 11, 2012 - 03:16pm PT
different strokes.........personally I love the single 70 to get down but then again more bolts and all that.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 11, 2012 - 03:44pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#277818
dave

climber
Earth
Dec 11, 2012 - 05:30pm PT
pssst, 70 is the new 60
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 11, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
I feel your pain Guyman. 70 meter ropes while good for sport climbing and places like IC are a damned nuisance for multi pitch climbing.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 11:30am PT
Jim gets IT.....

Going to go rope shopping, thank you-all for the comments, advise, jabbs, etc..... I just love the TACO climbers.

Thanks.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Dec 12, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
Last year on After Seven I accidently connected p2 and p3. No problem with a 70m rope. A couple next to us was on After Six, and the leader, half way p3, asked me how long my rope is and how much rope I had left. I said it’s a 70m rope and about 5m left. “Sh!t, mine is a 60m” he says. I say “why did you buy such a short rope?”. He says “Yeah, what I was thinking?!”, climbs up several feet, and starts building a hanging belay a few feet below us. We all had a god laugh. We had identical ropes except of the length.
dave

climber
Earth
Dec 12, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
Its kind of like skiing or surfing. You have a quiver of tools, in this case different length ropes, to choose from that will best suit your goal.

If it snowed 3 ft, and you were on your old straight 210's would you bitch that there was too much snow or would you get with the times and get some real skis?


Fletcher

Trad climber
The rock doesn't care what I think
Dec 12, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
There's a different tool for every job. You can always improvise, but YMMV.

Longer ropes are going to tend to be appreciated on sport routes. Maybe not so much when you're placing trad gear and having to trek a ways to get to the climb.

But geez guys, at the end of the day, the gear helps you but it's still you who is going to get the job done. Not the other way around. Or in other words, "That's a really nice $10,000 bike, but on its own it won't help me beat Wiggins."

Now, that said, as someone with an Irish last name who grew up amongst many New England Irish, I new a lot of guys who had only one tool in their quiver and used it for all jobs, from the delicate to gross destruction:

Credit: Fletcher

The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 12, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
If you don't like the pie, you don't have to eat it.


Lot's of pies in the sky.

C'mon Guy.... jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!




PS: These new multi-pitch mixed lines that are coming to light in PC ARE NOT RAP BOLTED! All were put up on lead and have been well thought out and done over time. I know as I am the one that drilled some of them AFTER the bolt locations were extensively worked out on TR over a period of weeks and months by a slew of folks and the FAist.

Again, if you do not like the pie, you don't have to eat it. But as it stands of late, most if not all the folks that have ventured onto many of these new lines have nothing but fabulous after climb comments regarding them. Single 70m rope and all.


Back when I got into this gig called climbing, 150's were the norm.... just saying GUY!
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 12, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
In the BITD daze Earl Wiggins climbed in the Black with a 300' 9mil. He could do incredibly long pitches quickly or double it up when it got spicy.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
The Chief.... I never said... Rap Bolt, at all. Please re-read if confused.

So yes I know 150 goldline was the sh#t... I still have one in the old climbing box.

150 was a long one too, by the way, the Old Timers used 140's

But what is the point of a 70?

They do come up short when you need to come down...

Have a nice day.... please.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
I feel your pain Guyman. 70 meter ropes while good for sport climbing and places like IC are a damned nuisance for multi pitch climbing.


No shizzle.

I don't mind a long rope for a day of close to the road sport that was designed around such a thing, but hauling a 70, and the extra weight for a day on a multi-pitch that was designed around something else is a DRAG, so to speak.

And no, all of us don't have the cash to have multiple ropes and multiple racks for all these "genres."
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
The Chief.... I never said... Rap Bolt, at all. Please re-read if confused.

Not confused at all Guy. That "Rap Bolt" point was for the edification of other pie eaters on this thread.

Again, if one does not like the pies presented on the menu, move onto another pie house and eat that which fits your taste buds and utensils.


Oh yeah, 80's are a hot selling item these days next door as well as other retail climbing shops.

Just saying.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:25pm PT
What a drag --- 50m was cool, 55ma little extra for safety but you starting to get a bit of rope drag --- 60m and i'm at my limit of comfortable drag --- 70m WTF.

I see folks with all this money spent on light gear & then they drag along a 70m rope.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:26pm PT
All of this of course is getting a bit ugly considering some routes recieve NEW anchors at belay stations not on the original ascent.
MOST of the older stuff was established with 150 foot ropes. Why are climbers so in a hurry these days that they drag 200 feet or more up a route, yelling to not be heard and having to re-establish belays is beyond me. Whats next, 3000 foot ropes to NIOP (Nose in one pitch)???
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:28pm PT
Good post Ron.

But what can we do?

NOTHING?
WBraun

climber
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
70mm rope is not heavy if you use a 9.2mm.

I've seen most of you people on the lead with huge racks of sh!t weighing a ton.

Then you complain about a few extra ounces for a 70meter rope.

So stupid ......
TFSTFU

Trad climber
Utah
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
Frumy it's a god damned m not mm.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
70mm rope is not heavy if you use a 9.2mm.

Thank you Werner.


Then you complain about a few extra ounces for a 70meter rope.

So stupid ......

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup!



BTW: These new multi-pitch "mixed" routes require no more than 10 Alpine Draws and a light rack of 8-12 stoppers/pieces with nothing bigger than a single #2 or 3 Camalot
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
Whats next, 3000 foot ropes to NIOP (Nose in one pitch)???
LOL GOOD ONE RON
cowpoke

climber
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
70mm = 7cm = .07m

pretty short rope for most climbs

edit to add a picture of my new 70mm rope...don't know the diameter, but it is wicked light
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
yeah but ill take that lead!^^^;-)


"on belay" struggle grunt -fart- Off Belay,, cmon up!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 01:46pm PT
OK.... I need all you other PIE EATERS.... who ever you are to know this fact:

The climbs in Pine Creek, are not rap bolted, except the ones that are.


But Back on topic... a 80 meter rope is just plain stupid, IMHO.

Why not buy 100 meters of rope, cut it in half, and use as doubles!

Problem solved, full circle.

Ron... great idea! chop the NOSE down to one pitch.

But what if I wish to be lowered?????

Where are they going to put the Musseys???
RP3

Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
Funny...I also tend to think the extra meters are great for multipitch climbing. You can link more pitches and climb faster!

Cry me a river about the weight. A typical 9.6 mm rope weighs around 60 g/m. So a 70 m rope, being 10 m longer, weighs 600 g. 600 g = 1.33 lbs The average American turd weighs about a pound. So I guess this is only a problem if you have not taken a dump that morning, or ate a particularly big breakfast.


ok...i need to get back to work...
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Dec 12, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
I agree. Linking pitches is the way to go. The extra mobility far outweighs the couple extra pounds. If short pitches are unavoidable though, hauling the extra slack sucks... 6 of one,'half dozen of the other. This is where the quiver concept comes in. Use the right tool for the job.
cowpoke

climber
Dec 12, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
"on belay" struggle grunt -fart- Off Belay,, cmon up!

OK, I'm on, but pull in some of that slack!
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 12, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
Yep if you ever climbed a nice long 70m pitch you would probably start shopping for an 80. Climbing is fun, belaying is not. Longer pitches = less belaying.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 12, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
Funny...I also tend to think the extra meters are great for multipitch climbing. You can link more pitches and climb faster!

Yep if you ever climbed a nice long 70m pitch you would probably start shopping for an 80. Climbing is fun, belaying is not. Longer pitches = less belaying.

Bingo!

For that matter, add up the weight of TWO 50's. A single 70 comes up short around three to four pounds. As well as the fact that the second needs to haul that 2nd line up on their ass and clean the pitch as well. Now if that makes sense to you Guy, then by all means, have at it.

Are you having a bad day at the office Guy???

This entire issue is just plain.... "stupid".
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Dec 12, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
Longer pitches also often means more gear.

I enjoy belaying on multipitch. Relax and enjoy the view.
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
Dec 12, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
In which the crusty old has-beens further flog yet another long-dead horse into oblivion.




Do you guys know what you sound like?
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 12, 2012 - 03:44pm PT
This entire issue is just plain.... "stupid".

No, this issue is not 'stupid.' This issue is personal preference. Some people like thicker ropes some people like longer ropes, some prefer doubles, or whatever. I understand Guyman, but this is for sure a 'First World Problem' LOL. Sometimes you need a 70M/2 60s, or w/e to rap a specific route, this is the way it is! Sorry.

It is up to an individual to decide which rope THEY want, and up to them to pick routes they want to do. Up to FA party to decide where to place rap stations or put in bolts for pro, or for belay stations. If one wants to climb their route, it is their problem to get appropriate gear (whatever that is).

I like 70s for linking pitches. I would like to have a thinner 70m for for alpine climbs with short approaches (like Bugaboos or Hulk in CA), thick 70 for fixing 2 pitches on a wall with one rope (if possible), or for owens river gorge/indian creek cragging, but now I have a thick 60m rope/doubles and am just fine with what I have. Want does not mean need.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 12, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
This entire issue is just plain.... "stupid".


Absolutely not.

Obviously one can't lead a 2,000 ft. pitch even with tiny cord.

Many areas and pitches wander more, with more trad pro ( and more weight) required.

Carry the right tool for the right job is great advice, but some folks just can't afford a huge number of tools.

So what is the tool that most effectively covers the greatest number of jobs is the real question.

Please don't treat others like they're stupid.

This entire issue is just plain.... "stupid".

If it was that simple, all of us would just have long ass ropes wouldn't we?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 12, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss

Dec 12, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
In which the crusty old has-beens further flog yet another long-dead horse into oblivion.




Do you guys know what you sound like?








uuhhh if you mean those that have been there longer -harder -farther and way before you,, then Yes i know..
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:17pm PT
If it was that simple, all of us would just have long ass ropes wouldn't we?

If all of us would just do routes that fit our preferences and not expect others to establish lines based on what some wish them to be like. This is not the gym.

In other words, you don't have to get on the routes if they do not fit your mold.


From what I understand, Clyde only used a 100' Goldline for many of his "technical" routes including the East Face and East Butt of Whitney.

Just saying...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
This entire issue is just plain.... "stupid".


Whenever The Chief and I fully agree, stand up and take notice.

edit: Different tools for different jobs. There's no drama about it. I believe this nail has been hammered previously in this thread though.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
the only problem i have is when older routes are retro-anchored to accommodate longer ropes. TOTAL bs..
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
Good point chief.

But:
This is not the gym.

I didn't say a damn word about the gym, and it's lame to even try that connect the dots.
RP3

Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
Amen, Rob
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
Are you having a bad day at the office Guy???

No not at all, but, The Chief, when you greated me with this:

C'mon Guy.... jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!

I sort of figgured you were. ;>)

and Vitality... your right, but I like my 50m doubles at about 9.0mm,
I can lead with them at the same time, thus no one drags a cord behind.


;>) be happy
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
I have tried both 60 and 70 for multi pitch and have found a 60 to be more efficient when all factors are weighed.....no pun intended.
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
Shouldn't we just be thankful that someone put up these SPORT routes for us to enjoy? If you don't have a 70 or don't want to buy one, use 2 shorter ropes like Werner said...

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
No, we should twiddle our thumbs online instead ;).
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:42pm PT
Ha ha. We must all be bored today to argue about something like this...funny.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:42pm PT
Having the second trail a cord is the worst of all possible options, a recipe for an epic anyplace where the wind blows...

I like doing traditional multipitch with 8.5x60M doubles. 200 ft pitches seem like plenty, 200 ft raps are great.

Seems like there's two different arguments here for the 70. On the one hand there is the business of linking or doing longer pitches. Yeah I saw Mat Samet and Mike Reardon do Atlantis (a 4 pitch 5.11 Needles classic) in two pitches with a 70. Extra drag etc was not a factor for them since they put in about two pieces on each pitch. I don't tend to climb like that, and the regular belays on that route are fine with me. And with my doubles if it rains I am off way faster than with one 70.

On the other hand there is the business of setting up routes with a bunch of 35M pitches to rap with a 70. In some cases this might make sense as dictated by the features of the route but in a lot of cases this just makes a four pitch climb into seven or so.

My .02 is that if you want to set up your sport climbs for long ropes more power to you. Think twice about the multipitch though, in a lot of cases you're actually making artificially short pitches to avoid the need of two ropes (assuming the best descent is by rappel.)
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Dec 12, 2012 - 04:57pm PT
the point being missed:
the whole rope this or that is a marketing decoy to get you to buy more and more expensive ropes. You can get an excellent 9.8 60m rope for just under $100. I spent $85 on my last one a month ago. It will be sturdy and wear well. You can get a bicolor double dry 9.8 70m for $250-$290, you will get much less time on it before it wears. I've stopped buying them.

Edit: +1 for doubles
TFSTFU

Trad climber
Utah
Dec 12, 2012 - 05:10pm PT
85 bucks? What did u get a used static that was found on the "real nose"?
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Dec 12, 2012 - 05:15pm PT
nope, brand new spanky Eldrid.. do your research, bud and save a few bucks
Enthusiast

Sport climber
Port Townsend WA
Dec 12, 2012 - 05:43pm PT
One person mentions sport climbing and this becomes a total bitch fest.
Jeremy Ross

Gym climber
Dec 12, 2012 - 05:50pm PT
I'm with Donini and Riley on this one. F*#k the 70's.




-JR
snowhazed

Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
Dec 12, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
I climbed the Polish route on the hulk in 3 pitches with no drag thanks to my 80M rope. 80 meters brings you exactly to perfect belay ledges each time. It was effing awesome.

I say bring on the nano-engineered dental floss- 300M of feather weight line that self-untangles, tells you how much rope is left in a sexy voice, and advises you when to runner a piece. I'm going to set all sorts of routes with it, and all of you are going to get panty-twisted all over again.
Jeremy Ross

Gym climber
Dec 12, 2012 - 06:04pm PT
300m superlightweight? I'm totally into the 250m superlight though, now I have to buy a new 300m?



-JR
Captain...or Skully

climber
Dec 12, 2012 - 06:04pm PT

Sport climbing is lame, anyway. Non issue.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 12, 2012 - 06:04pm PT


I have 50's, 60's and 70's and use each when the situation calls for it...

Claiming one is better than the other seems dumb to me...

Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Dec 12, 2012 - 06:33pm PT
I don't think any length can be declared better/worse or optimal. The issue is that there is now a proliferation of climbs and rappels configured for various rope sizes.

When I first started climbing in the early 90's, there was really only one size: 50m. One didn't need to "know" what size rope they needed or were using. The uniformity made things a little simpler.

Rope length is now another parameter that must be known/communicated in guidebooks etc. At a minimum this "problem" will be an occasional inconvenience to most of us, on rare occasions it could be a contributing factor in accidents.

But the genie is out of the bottle. There will never be a "standard" length again, if there ever really was one.

Just pay attention when rapping and lowering, like we all should do anyway.



The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 12, 2012 - 06:48pm PT
I have 50's, 60's and 70's and use each when the situation calls for it...

Claiming one is better than the other seems dumb to me...

BAM & BINGO!

The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 12, 2012 - 06:57pm PT
8.5x60M doubles

Kris, had you used them on any of the routes in PC that you enjoyed, that would have been the biggest clusterfk and shet wrapped up in the small pinions and other bushes after each pull that, welll ...
cowpoke

climber
Dec 12, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
Conspiracy, perhaps?

Mandatory retirement age for judges in PA = 70!
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/11/14/pennsylvania-judges-sue-over-mandatory-retirement-provision/

Mandatory IRA distributions = age 70!
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/2011-03-28-april-1-ira-deadline-your-rmoney.htm?csp=34

Mandatory 70 mpg movements!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=546_1218617246

And, now, climbing rope length...just sayin.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Dec 12, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
But for CHP and many other state workers in CA, the retirement age has gone down over time.

Do they use shorter ropes also?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 12, 2012 - 08:12pm PT
My first rope was a 40m Goldline.

When I bought a 90m 9mm Edelrid bicolor in 1974 I felt like Superman.
Nick

climber
portland, Oregon
Dec 12, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
Seems to me it all depends. Most of time I have been really happy to climb on a 70. Smith has all these really fun multi-pitch sport routes that you can climb with a rack of draws and a 70 then rap off after after 4-7 pitches of fun. At most of the traditional places I climb ,I like the extra rope to extend a pitch to a nice ledge, link pitches, use the rope for setting up all the anchors or set up a top rope on nearby stuff just to put in some miles. (Guy remember doing all the routes around the great circle on a 70?) On routes that require full length raps to get off, doubles are the tool of choice, although I find them a pain in the rear. For alpine or long routes with plenty of ledges a 60 is great, hell even a 40 would work. Lots of those old routes were put up with a 120 ft goldlines.
Come on up Guy and we can pull out the good stuff.
Credit: Nick
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 12, 2012 - 09:32pm PT
Kris, had you used them on any of the routes in PC that you enjoyed, that would have been the biggest clusterfk and shet wrapped up in the small pinions and other bushes after each pull that, welll ...

Rick,

I did not suggest using the doubles there. I said "multipitch trad."

McHale and I did use them on 3 Hour Arete (it's what we had,) if you go back and find my post upthread you'll see that we did have a rappel hang up.
Guangzhou

Trad climber
Asia, Indonesia, East Java
Dec 12, 2012 - 11:19pm PT
I haven't been climbing so long, but I remember hearing people complaining when ropes norms changed to 50 meters. A lot of people were unhappy when routes that used 60 meters ropes became the norm, but now, just about everyone owns a 60meter. In some places, buying a 50meter rope is almost impossible.

Changes changes changes.

Eman
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2012 - 12:29am PT
Wow... good to see ya Nick and Kris... and everyone else.

So, yes this topic started out as a little bitch of mine. When Kris told me he returned from Pine Creak and had done these fab climbs, but you need to have a 70m ... I started thinking cause its time to purchase a new cord because nobody will use mine! Ropes cost a lot, but I don't mine paying but I don't wish to buy 3 different set ups.

Lots of you have advocated 70 because you can do long pitches, and this is true.... to a point of nonsense.(3,100 ft cord for the Nose)

It was pointed out that a x.x 70m is light.... I agree, how can you argue?

Also, the fact that at Multi-pitch sport areas 70 is standard.

What has not been pointed out is this: Longer pitches means fewer Belays that take up valuable time to set up, break down.

The "cons" seem to be that a 70 will not allow one to do the raps needed.

This is my major issue

So after reading every post I reckon I have learned this:

Not one rope length, or diameter is best, rather different ones will do a better job given the situation.

So that being said, I hope that the folks doing FA's will be kind enuf to inform the public about what length cord they used.

Because it will suck when I try to get off something when I have my 2 70m cords and the FA's used 2x 100m ropes to get down.


Oh yea This is my vote for the best reply to this topic.



the point being missed:
the whole rope this or that is a marketing decoy to get you to buy more and more expensive ropes. You can get an excellent 9.8 60m rope for just under $100. I spent $85 on my last one a month ago. It will be sturdy and wear well. You can get a bicolor double dry 9.8 70m for $250-$290, you will get much less time on it before it wears. I've stopped buying them.

Edit: +1 for doubles



The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:55am PT
Rick,

I did not suggest using the doubles there.

Tit for Tat Kris.

I did not imply you did.

Point, had you done so you would of encountered the clusterfk when you pulled them two thin 60 thin lines. Oh, you did on Three Hour Arete. Never mind.


So that being said, I hope that the folks doing FA's will be kind enuf to inform the public about what length cord they used.

Ah, they do in PC Guy. Thus the foundation of this thread that you initiated.

A friend of mine just returned from the east side and he reported that there are new very cool sport climbs up in Pine Creek and elsewise.

One thing though…. All these new climbs are about 35 meters from the anchor to the dirt.

So if this is true, I need to start using a freaking 70 meter rope, I hate those things.

Of course it is true... they told you it was. So either get or borrow a 70 or bring your doubles or don't get on em.

Simple.


Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 13, 2012 - 01:09am PT
Not a clusterf*#k, a brief delay but less than optimal none the less.

When you rap 3 Hour with a 70, do you rap from the top of the route to the top of P2 in one go? If so the same thing could happen with a 70 as happened to us. One end fell across into the gulley on the far side of the arete and got caught on something there. We never saw what it stuck on because Dan pulled it free with some effort.

We got off in two raps, the top of P2 to the ground pulled easily with a bit of care to avoid the bushes up there.

They are very fun routes and the best way to do them, as designed, is with a 70.

Oh, I'll take a tit over a tat any day..;-)
MisterE

Social climber
Dec 13, 2012 - 01:13am PT
86 is the new 70.

Yer slackin' with the rope-wah.
Greg Barnes

climber
Dec 13, 2012 - 01:30am PT
Thought this would be about some new runout multipitch slab routes put up with 220' pitches...then it would be "MANDATORY" not just inconvenient...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 13, 2012 - 01:47am PT
Echoing the right tool for the job riff once again, I remember using my gym rope for a day spent blasting through a couple of different shortie crags on the North shore of Tahoe. It felt awesome to have just the right amount of cord, no more and no less. It was just right for the tallest climbs of around 50 feet high without pulling any cord through for the TR follow. Coiling the rope was cake.

Then again, leading a 70m pitch feels just as awesome as you get lost in the rhythm of climbing.

I went to El Potrero Chico in 2009 and it seemed the majority of climbs were set up to be rapped with a 70m, and linking pitches is pretty much standard.

Other areas pitch out perfectly with a 50m or 60m, especially terraced climbing with scrambling in between.

It just is what is, fellas. It's like complaining about a hammer not being a screwdriver. It depends on whether or not you have nails to pound.

Personally, I'd rather roll with 60m doubles, it solves so many problems. But we Americans have never really adopted that practice, and I'd have to break in too many of my partners to their use. We like our Lone Ranger ropes, our psyche being too much the rugged individualist. Only we can't agree to what size we want that handsome buckaroo to be. Tall drink of water? Short and stout dynamo? Yeah, this length and girth trip we've been exploring here gets... pretty brokeback, wouldn't you say?

edit:
Thought this would be about some new runout multipitch slab routes put up with 220' pitches...then it would be "MANDATORY" not just inconvenient...


Good call. That would have moved this bitchy gripe into genuine debate territory ;).
johnokner

Trad climber
NJ
Dec 13, 2012 - 07:34am PT
My 8.1 ropes, 9.2 rope and 10.2 rope are all 70m more wall to cover
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Dec 13, 2012 - 08:53am PT
When you rap 3 Hour with a 70, do you rap from the top of the route to the top of P2 in one go?

Negative Kris.

I go to the next stance just below the top. When I pull, I pull hard right so the tail end drifts towards the rt wall and not into the gully.

BTW: Get the green light this morning to start slow runs and so far so good to jump back onto the wall/ice in two weeks.

Spoke to Kevin D. yesterday morning. He says hi and is himself getting back into the groove after his horrific knee ordeal. Sheeeeeeeeeese. Now that was a bad gig for him.


BTW: Doubles on any of them frontage PC slab lines would just be a nightmare. Far too many limbs and bushes to get hung up on.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:29am PT
Use the appropriate length for the climb you're on. More interesting to me have been the advances that have led to smaller diameter ropes. I now use an 8.9 single for sport and a 9.2 for trad multi pitch. Length is all about preference, diameter changes are a function of improved technology.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
regardless of what diameter Stoney point could always use a good rope donation.

my first rope was a bluewater which was 50m.


guyzo donini has said good stuff.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:17pm PT


Side note:

No ropes are MANDATORY for climbing...

;-)

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
I had to take a perfectly good 60 meter rope and chop 10 meters off it.
You know, most classics in Yosemite are set up for 50's...
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Dec 13, 2012 - 01:26pm PT
Yah, but if you cut off 70mm you would still have a good rope.
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