Discussion Topic |
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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ROFL @ Karma comment
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 4, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
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granite, i wish i could respond to you, but i do not know who you are. damn, i just DID respond. lol
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Sounds like surfers have transitioned into the climbing world.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Just think of the bad karma involved...
The culprit is guilty of stealing $500 worth of rope in a federal park, which i believe is like a full on felony.
I spoke on the phone with climbing ranger Jesse McCaughey(sp?) today and he is heads up on the situation. as far as he knows this was
Tell, you what ShitPOOPoi, before you go all "CSI" and "Law and Order" on us, why don't you face up to your own sh#t first.
Turn yourself in for defecating in public, malicious destruction of property, and harrassment/vandalism, etc. and repay your victims in cash with interest for the damage you caused them, and then we can talk about who may have packed out your trash for you.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Poopie, the Karma thing in your OP *is* one for the ages.
As an aside, the cops don't give a sh#t. Gear left over 24 hours is abandoned property.
Too bad though about the missing ropes etc. Good luck.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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^Always good to hear the voices of moderation.
^^Always good to hear the voices of moderation.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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granite, i wish i could respond to you, but i do not know who you are. damn, i just DID respond. lol
You must have posted this while I was posting my follow-up.
But if you did respond, what would you say?
Your initial post just shows such an astounding lack of insight.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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^Always good to hear the voices of moderation.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nope. The entire "karma" and "what goes around comes around" argument is invalid.
It was invalidated when Steve faced up to what he regreetted doing and apologized to Mark and Richard, and asked them to forgive him. It was further invalidated when Mark and Richard did indeed forgive Steve. The case has been closed.
Forgiveness is freedom from burden, and all involved in the WoS sh|tting episode are accordingly freed.
Good luck getting your ropes back, Steve. It will suck having to lead those pitches again. However I may be available in the future ... {wink}
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Wings of steel lives!!!!111
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 4, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
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granite, if you identify yourself, i can respond, otherwise...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Steve,
Do not be concerned with nameless, faceless and dickless detractors, for they carry no merit nor credibility.
You are as real as they come.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I'm not real interested in what you don't even want to say.
If you really want your ropes, start checking Valley dumpsters.
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John M
climber
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So Graniteclimber.
what do expect him to do? He apologized. The apology was accepted. Does he owe you something? Did he harm you in some way? Whats up?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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First this:
a 30meter rope, a 60 meter rope, and a 70 meter rope.
they are old and cable like, difficult to rappel, ... They do not have factory ends, but rather are lighter melted,
Then this:
The culprit is guilty of stealing $500 worth of rope in a federal park, which i believe is like a full on felony.
If you return my ropes to me, or offer me a satisfactory monetary compensation, AND a personal apology to me, then i promise to forgive you and that will be the end of it. No rangers, no prosecution, no big deal.
REWARD OFFERED To anybody that gives information leading to the arrest and prosecution of said culprit, I will pay them a reward of $100.
Are you f*#king kidding us!?
You left TRASH up on the wall for a month or more and someone removed it.
If you find the GOOD SAMARITAN who removed this garbage, you should write him a personal thank you note and offer him compensation for his efforts.
As it is, you are threatening criminal prosecution if your "culprit" does not pay you $500 in cash. Your ropes, which you admit are old and worn out, are not worth anywhere near that much. Also for you to threaten criminal prosecution if you don't get paid what you think you are owed is EXTORTION in California.
So by making the original post in this thread you have committed a felony.
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Onewhowalksonrocks
Mountain climber
portland, Maine
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After 24hrs you are littering. You should be fined by the cop Jesse. Not wasting our tax dollars helping you get your ropes back.
Your an ASS
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John M
climber
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So by making the original post in this thread you have committed a felony.
too funny..
What does the dude owe you?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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"nameless, faceless and dickless detractors,"
You mean kind of like what Steve "ShitPOOPloi" Schneider was for THIRTY YEARS!? That's how long it took him to come forward.
If I come forward even 29 years from now, I will have him beat!
Also, I don't have any CRIMES to come forward and apologize for.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Yes, there's noting like having Graniteclimber trying to rough up your balls after he massages his own.
So "Granite" do you still have to hide under your rock of "I'm all that and I have really climbed things beyond some 40' slab" in Josh to feel you matter ?
Please, spare me the withering keyboard comment from that digital comfort station you hold between your legs.
Who could stand the assault of that so strong brain of yours ?
Jim: Well played, Sir. LOL.
Hope you get your ropes back, Steve!
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jstan
climber
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From unexpected voices I am hearing it is perfectly OK to leave stuff on the rock for a long time. Is this really the consensus here?
Get away from the personal stuff for a moment, if you will. Is that what we feel?
Much as I hope Steve gets his stuff back, if the consensus is as it seems to be
we have a problem much bigger than some ropes.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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From unexpected voices I am hearing it is perfectly OK to leave stuff on the rock for a long time. Is this really the consensus here?
It depends who is leaving the stuff.
If it is someone the speakers of the unexpected voices have been brown-nosing, that is different then if it is someone else.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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A question of ethics.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/228996/Mt-Watkins-a-question-of-ethics
Who said this?
This whole thread is one of the more stunning I have encountered. Call me an arse, but if I find gear that is more than a few days old... it is coming down. I'll cut it AND pack it out. Littering a route is just that: littering. Advancing the sport? Bite me! Advancing the ego, more like. There was a time (and a few climbers) who believed that a single slip on the lead was reason enough not to attempt the route again. I never advocated that, but I do believe that climbing, like life, is about style.
Back on the SFHD thread I asked the question of what's next on this slippery slope? Is it okay to glue holds on the Shield so it can be done "free"? If someone is too fat for the Narrows can they enlarge the slot at will? Seriously, what IS acceptable? I know some of you are callin' me names right now and saying the old guys are all self-righteous but, Fuk with Ditch and you are not a climber. You are an as#@&%e.
We don't know who you are. We don't know what you want. If you are looking for fame, We can tell you, you won't get it. But what you will get is our very particular set of skills; skills we have acquired over a very long career of living in the dirt. Skills that make us a nightmare for people like you. If you clean up your act now, that'll be the end of it. We will not look for you, We will not pursue you. But if you don't, we will look for you, we will find you, and we will hurt you.
THE VALLEY IS NOT A SPORT GYM!
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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I had a fixed line to the Lost Arrow Spire stolen the day after i fixed it. Just proves some climbers are A holes. I am actually finding out a lot of climbers are A holes from reading the ST forum.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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My "karma" comment doesn't really apply. It would apply if Steve left new gear that clearly was not abandoned, and someone- someone who KNEW that it was not abandoned--stole it or vandalized it.
That did not happen.
Steve left really old worn out ropes up on the wall for a month. He says that they are old and so stiff and cable like that it is difficult to rap on them.
Why would ANY reasonable person NOT think they were abandoned garbage?
That is my one question for the Steve-sucker-uppers.
If any of them are able to give me an answer that makes sense, I will take back everything I said and issue a full apology.
Edit: I will even apologize for using the phrase "Steve-sucker-uppers"
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Maybe someone needed them to climb the decompressor route...
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
SLO, Ca
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I've more or less always been against permanent fixed ropes on el cap and in favor of fixing where someone is trying to get something done. I'd say be careful about whining about the 24 hour rule. Here's a guy that came back to take down his rig and is getting flamed?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Here's a guy that came back to take down his rig and is getting flamed?
No one is flaming him for coming back to remove his trash. Coming back after a month is late, but better late then never.
It's just a little ridiculous for him to be calling someone a "thief" for removing the trash for him.
Edit:
Why is an old, fuzzy jumaring rope and a few biners so alluring?
I have removed ropes like this, and each time I saw it as a public service and placed the ropes and slings in the first trash can I came across. The biners are usually trash biners that you wouldn't want to add to your rack. I don't toss those, but give them away to noobs who need something to set up top-ropes.
If the ropes are as bad as Steve described, someone probably threw them in the trash.
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John M
climber
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Turn yourself in for defecating in public, malicious destruction of property, and harrassment/vandalism, etc. and repay your victims in cash with interest for the damage you caused them, and then we can talk about who may have packed out your trash for you.
I was just laughing about this statement. It didn't sound like you were upset about leaving fixed gear. It sounded like you were looking for revenge for WOS. Which just sounded nuts to me.
If you are pissed about leaving fixed ropes, then say so, but dragging old sh#t into it that has been worked out is pathetic.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Who ever took the ropes are thieves
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jstan
climber
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I'll ask my question another way.
How long does stuff have to be left on the rock before it is considered to be abandoned?
This is an old legal question. It is a real question.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
SLO, Ca
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graniteclimber, have you ever put up or repeated a big route? If so, plz provide citations.
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MisterE
Social climber
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I'll ask my question another way.
How long does stuff have to be left on the rock before it is considered to be abandoned?
This is an old legal question. It is a real question.
To obfuscate further, depends on who left it?
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jstan
climber
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If it depends upon "who left it" we have the most serious problem of all.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I was just laughing about this statement. It didn't sound like you were upset about leaving fixed gear. It sounded like you were looking for revenge for WOS. Which just sounded nuts to me.
If you are pissed about leaving fixed ropes, then say so, but dragging old sh#t into it that has been worked out is pathetic.
I thought Steve's post was funny because he's calling someone a thief for removing his trash.
Why would I be upset about him leaving fixed gear. He did, but he came to clean it up. That's good.
What's funny is him calling someone a thief for cleaning up after him.
What's more funny is that he is calling someone a thief for taking out his trash when he himself sh#t on someone else's new gear, knowing that it was not abandoned, for the sole purpose of harrassing them and causing emotional distress.
He apologized, but only after 30 years, and only because he was being publicly "outed."
A late, forced apology is better then nothing, but not much better.
Instead of offering a $100 reward for the information so that he can have his Good Samaritan "arrested and prosecuted" he should be looking for the guy so that he can offer him a $100 cash reward for hauling out his trash for him.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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It appears to me that climbing permits are just around the corner, climber self conduct or policing is just not possible anymore. Too mainstream.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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If it depends upon "who left it" we have the most serious problem of all.
Exactly. Steve and his crowd are the same crowd that sh#t all over the Wings of Steel team, both figuratively and literally.
If you come in from outside the Valley and left stiff old ropes on a route for a month or more they would strip them without even thinking about it.
But if it's one of their crowd, that is different.
Even after over 30 years after Wings of Steel, they have learned nothing.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
SLO, Ca
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Truth is it does matter "who" left gear and how it's left. Welcome to humanity.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:06am PT
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I guess it could have been a cleaning up project, if they had just jugged one more line and cleaned them all, that actually would have been better. Now there's this fixed rope hundreds of feet off the deck, that i have no way to clean up till spring...when i will clean it up. for the record, i don't believe in leaving fixed lines on any routes for long, but i don't consider a month a long time...especially since i spent a day fixing the lines straight down from the 5th pitch so they would not be on the start of the popular dawn wall start, or any other route for that matter, except the desparate, and possibly unrepeated(except by dave caunt himself) rock neurotic.
of course, i have been guilty of fixing lines on routes before, and longer than a month on el nino and lurking fear, and to those that had to climb by my lines, i am truly sorry. it seems that in this day, if one can play the free climbing card, such as a season on freerider or the dawn wall project, then that is accecptable as long as the lines come down at the end of the season, and everything is done to keep the lines off of the actual climbing. certainly, nobody was lining up to do the real nose, and even if there had been, my lines were off the route, i took care of that.
everybody here knows i'm not perfect, i'm not saying i am. it still does not give somebody the right to essentially rob me. ss
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jstan
climber
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Since we cannot know who left something then everything must always be left. Are we happy with that?
In that case we don't agree with Jesse's work to flush the sh#t out at the bivys on el Cap. That's a worst case but so be it. Worst cases are where arguments, like this one, always end up.
I do have a question for Jim.
Suppose the person had refused to give you the gear you claimed was yours. If you had assaulted that person, since it was only a claim that it was your gear, you would have been charged with assault and battery in another person's residence. Even were your legal defense ultimately successful, your legal fees would have far exceeded the value of your gear. From simply practical considerations, would you not agree your action was ill-advised?
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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What about perma-draws?
;)
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MisterE
Social climber
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This is a situation of a known person with known fixed ropes meant to be removed
This begs the question that there is such a disconnect of the community that the perps are unaware of the above statement.
I understand the disappointment of trying to do the right thing and the time involved, only to find one has been jammed.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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I would assume there are still valley locals (like textbook localism). No matter how big the cred/ celebrity of somebody from Oakland or elsewhere, it still doesn't amount to nothing in Yosemite.
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jstan
climber
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Stzzo:
Abandonment dates to old English law and it phrases the question this way. Property can be assumed to have been abandoned if one can see that that was the "intention." An engine or a washing machine beside the road is an easy example. Beyond that I can say only that the amount of money expended over what is to be done with the remains of the Titanic has probably exceeded the original cost of building the Titanic.
That is why I phrased my approach in terms of abandoned climbing gear posing a denial of the rights possessed by the aggrieved party. How the aggrieved party establishes its right is up to them. They owe no debt to the party leaving the gear. None.
Personally I think treating everything as booty is ill-advised from a number of standpoints. Would you lead on a rope you found lying at the bottom of a cliff?
I wouldn't, but what any one person chooses is not a good basis for resolving a communal problem.
We have a good illustration of this right here in this thread.
I will go on.
All too often we respond out of our reptile brains to minor problems. Steve's ropes are not the functional equivalent of facing an enraged grizzly while holding only a pen knife. Sometimes I have trouble understanding why mature and very intelligent people sink this low - so regularly.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Steve, sorry to hear about your ropes - in context of existing community mores, it seems reasonably clear that they weren't out of place. It must have been a shock. Knowing such things sometimes happen isn't the same as having them happen. And the issue of equipment, of practical value to the owner if not of any great monetary value, being taken is separate from whether it ought to have been there to begin with. The latter question being somewhat but not entirely abstract.
It's maybe a bit like parking your car in a risky area, coming back, and finding it broken into. You get mad at the thief, and a bit mad at yourself, too, for knowing better but doing it anyway.
If you turn it the other way, whoever removed the ropes surely knew that they weren't abandoned, that no one had appointed them as fixed stuff police, and that someone was depending on them being there. They weren't ratty old lines to Heart Ledge, and Steve had been quite public about his plans. No excuses for doing it.
The Rules
Property left unattended in Yosemite for longer than 24 hours is considered abandoned and may be impounded. However, the National Park Service recognizes that there are circumstances when it is impractical for climbers to return to fixed ropes within 24 hours. In such cases we ask that you leave ropes and equipment in place only as long as you are actively using the lines.
• Fixing ropes to get a head start: if you decide to fix ropes part way up a route before beginning your ascent, do so only immediately before beginning your climb and remove them once you commit to the route.
• Fixing ropes to "work" a route: If you plan to return to a route regularly, leave your ropes in place only when you are actively working the route. (This does not include taking a week off to rest.)
• Established fixed ropes: Ropes like those sometimes found below Heart Ledges on El Capitan are not maintained or condoned by the National Park Service.
• Mini Traxion Lines: Same rules apply; If you fix a line for training, remove it the same day. As a courtesy, do not leave ropes or gear on popular routes that might be an eyesore or an inconvenience to other climbers.
The Reasons
Stashed gear, food, water, and fixed ropes in particular, take away from the sense of risk and adventure that climbers and other Wilderness travelers expect to experience. Most of Yosemite's climbing areas are in designated wilderness and must remain "without permanent improvements or human habitation… with the imprint of man’s work substantially unnoticeable."
Wilderness, and climbing in particular, is not intended to be convenient or easy (ironically that's why many are drawn to it). Please do your part to maintain Yosemite's wildness. In 2011 volunteers and rangers removed over four thousand feet of trash rope from Yosemite's walls, not including a few thousand feet of junk rope from the Heart Ledge rappels by conscientious climbers.
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/fixedropes.htm
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
SLO, Ca
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And even if you are all uptight about some park service regs, who actually strips ropes off and then says nothing?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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I believe the "24 hours = abandoned" definition is mostly useful so that people (with public interest in mind) can remove stuff which has clearly been there for months/weeks without having to do extensive checking. Usually stuff like bleached/trashed ropes.
I don't think the 24 hour definition should be used to define abandonment in general.
Several times I've dropped 1-2 ropes from below Sickle Ledge, so that we were not taking 4 ropes all the way up the Nose. We planned to pick them up after topping out. But usually they were taken. Adding a note to the ropes with a pickup date and contact info might help. Nowadays I use a note but just use my worst old ropes and figure they will most likely be taken anyway. It was frustrating, though, because I figured people should use a "4 days = abandoned" definition for ropes (with no notes) on the ground below Sickle, to give people a chance to top out and then retrieve. We could have also left our extra ropes fixed instead of dropping them, to make it harder for people to take them. But that adds to congestion on an already crowded set of anchors. Probably best is to drop ropes there with a note to help clue people in.
All summer Roger and I had fixed ropes up for days and weeks at a time, for bolt replacement. Mostly in places with little traffic, and always with signs stating it was a rebolting project. I wouldn't like it if people felt they were free for the taking after 24 hours. In the past when we have fixed in areas with more traffic, including 2 ropes where Steve's were fixed (when Roger replaced the bolts on Rock Neurotic), in addition to the signs Roger tried to do the work very fast so that the ropes were down quickly. Last year one fixed line was forgotten in a miscommunication and was up until December, yikes. A friend asked me about it and I took it down immediately, but that was embarrassing.
When we did Horse Chute some years back, there were 2 ropes fixed on Dihedral Wall, but nobody showed up on the 2 days we also fixed and went up, so I dropped them to the ground. Only later did I think of the concept of people fixing one weekend, going back to work, and returning 5 days later to go up? A note would have stopped me from dropping those ropes.
In general, defining abandoned fixed ropes can be a big gray area. An extreme example would be Father Time - Mikey had ropes up there for most of 2 summers. 24 hours would be way too short there. The ropes were not at much risk for being taken, though, because very few people go up there.
Trying to put myself in Steve's shoes, I would feel frustrated for these reasons:
 I could have easily left a note on the ropes but didn't; probably thought I would be back sooner, or that a note was not needed.
out some decent/safe static lines
wondering why some (anon?) people think the WoS confession seems to brand him as a "permanent bad guy" instead of an "errant youth". Steve is really a good guy and it speaks greatly to his honesty and good spirit in helping the WoS climbers heal up and stop feeling persecuted. He volunteered the confession; did not have to do that and I don't think he feared being outed. [Edit: graniteclimber, maybe I missed the "outing" in those long WoS threads, but even if it was a prompted confession, it's still a good thing]. Many of us (me included) have done things we regretted in the past and citing "karma" is pretty insensitive and ironic.
imagine driving up solo to the Valley with just jumars, but now needing to lead 3 pitches to reach the 1 rope that is stranded up higher! So a wasted trip that was meant to clean up the wall. And probably he could have easily done those pitches if he had just brought some gear and a rope.
Steve, I have many retired lead lines that you can have if you are short of ropes for fixing for future stuff. And Roger may have some stiff 11mm statics that he is retiring which still have lots of use left in them. Maybe not as nice as the ones you had, though.
[Edit to add:]
Steve had been quite public about his plans. Public as in a few posts on the supertopo forum, yes, but not everybody who walks along the base of El Cap would have seen those posts and know whose ropes those were, not to mention if/when he'd be coming back. The solution to this uncertainty about abandonment is to leave a dated note, and refresh it if plans change.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Ahhh!
Leave the poor guy alone and answer the question... Did you or did you not see the ropes when you were walking at the base of El Cap? Oh wait, many of you have not gotten off the couch for months, but still have shiest to say.
Shut Up!
Don't bother speaking up unless you have an answer to his simple question. Everything else is just plain "word garbage."
At least Ship is still climbing, and he fessed up to a past mistake... Let the guy work the scene so he can find his ropes. As for the past, he was honest, got forgiven from the person that matters and that is that!
Damn fools, bunch of wankers talking sh#t while I bet most have done their share of pooping up their lives, never had the balls to clean it up like Steve.
All this is making me irritated.
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splitter
Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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graniteclimber,
IMHO, there is nothing more apt to bring upon oneself ill (bad karma, or whatever you wish to call it) than being unforgiving. Particularly after someone has expressed sorrow for their actions and asked for forgiveness, not only personally, but publicly. That is about as humble and deserving of forgiveness as it can get. To drag that person back through the mud again and again, over something that has already been resolved, serves absolutely no purpose. It is a sinister attempt to impinge the healing process and disrupt their peace of mind, etc!
Why?
Obviously you feel as though he shouldn't be, or shouldn't have been forgiven. The fact is, he was, the moment he confessed and asked for it, regardless of whether you or anyone else, for that matter, forgave him!
So dood, I suggest you consider your own life, because there may very well come a day when you also ask for and desire forgiveness for something. And it could very well be right here on this very same forum!
edit: I haven't read all the posts, just the first page. So if you have already apologized to Steve, then please disregard this!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Steve is really a good guy and it speaks greatly to his honesty and good spirit in helping the WoS climbers heal up and stop feeling persecuted. He volunteered the confession; did not have to do that and I don't think he feared being outed.
Clint, he was outed here on Supertopo about a month before he publicly apologized.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Outed... Seriously? Since when did that stop anyone from continuing lying? I've outed out others and they still claim bleached white virgin innocence, that they are actually the real victims. When someone wants to stay bad, they just twist reality. The darker the person is, the more twisted things can get.
Nope, his confession shows great character. A person that deserves his peace.
Now I am done ranting. I have better things to do.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Anyone else notice posts disappearing?
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raymond phule
climber
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I remember several threads where other climbers complained about his fixed lines on other routes. One possibility is that someone got tired of his fixed lines and took them down.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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PTPP clarified:
Nope. The entire "karma" and "what goes around comes around" argument is invalid.
It was invalidated when Steve faced up to what he regreetted doing and apologized to Mark and Richard, and asked them to forgive him. It was further invalidated when Mark and Richard did indeed forgive Steve. The case has been closed.
Forgiveness is freedom from burden, and all involved in the WoS sh|tting episode are accordingly freed.
Quoted for truth. Where did I put my pony cannon...
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Powder
Trad climber
SF Bay Area
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People can be really mean, or jerks , or ***Os :[
Hope you get your ropes back!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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You are as real as they come.
I'm with Pete on this one. Steve, I remain impressed with and humbled by your present character. To compare incidents decades removed is ridiculous. Different people involved! We are different (and better) than we were decades ago. So, no comparison between then and now should be attempted.
I totally understand the mental trauma involved in "working up to" your apology, and I reject the idea that because it took time it is somehow "forced" or invalid. So, I'd like to go on record in this context to again say flatly that the WoS thing is past, over, and done. You and I are right, Steve. And, just as you and I recently talked on the phone, I am honored, seriously, to know you now as a friend. If that's "mushy," then so be it. Few people have the courage you have displayed as a CLIMBER in every sense of that term.
Hopefully whoever took your ropes will quickly realize how indefensible that act was and contact you soon with at least a small fraction of the decency you recently displayed to Mark and I. It's not just the loss of the gear; it's the sense of being violated. The takers need to make that right. And I'm sure you would respond with grace.
IF the people that took your ropes are on the Taco, I sure hope they get the message that we are a community and need to act like one! We all screw up at times, and we sometimes step on each other's toes. But we're all trying to be CLIMBERS, with all the nuances of meaning packed into that word. Hopefully the takers will rejoin the CLIMBING community by making this thing right.
I wish you ALL the best, Steve!
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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I agree with Craggy. Sorry to see that someone's decided to f*#k with you, Steve. That sucks.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sorry for your ropes and the pain in the ass it had to be to fix that portion of the wall, seems pretty steep to me...
As far as Graniteclimber goes he is faggotry of the highest order.
(I mean that in the South Park version of the word :D)
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Steve, The ropes were in place at 11:00 am on the 16th of November(may have been the 17th). That is the last time I went by them. The bottom rope had not blown out of reach and the lines looked good enough that I would have jugged them.
As far as the trash left arguement goes, I was planning on going up these lines with Steve to finish the attempted line. I am kind of a safety nazi, and looking at them on several of my times by in the previous week, I saw nothing wrong with them that would have caused me to not jug them. They were used, but sound appearing. Typical of any line I would have left for a fixed line.
Sorry to hear about the theft. I hope someone gets a guilt trip ride of their life over this. Just plain wrong, no matter how they try to justify it.
Burly Bob
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oldtopangalizard
Social climber
ca
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OK, Werner throwing out the 'faggot gerbil' reference makes this entire thread a must read.
BTW, I agree with him on this one.
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John Butler
Social climber
SLC, Utah
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"Don't blink." - The Doctor
...if you do, you'll miss a half dozen posts
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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DMT... You've gone too far this time.
Irony is defined as incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs.
What you're talking about is better defined as a COINCIDENCE - A sequence of events that, although accidental, seems to have been planned or arranged.
http://dragreduction.blogspot.com/2005/11/irony-vs-coincidence.html
1995 was a long time ago, and NONE of us - EVEN YOU DMT - have an excuse for turning to Alanis Morrisette as an English teacher.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Hope your get your stuff back Steve. Some people will go to great lengths to justify theft. It's still theft.
Agree with this sediment too: "Do not be concerned with nameless, faceless and dickless detractors, for they carry no merit nor credibility."
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RP3
Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
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Suck about the theft... and the rope that is now stranded high on the wall in a difficult place to access.
However, I do recall seeing your lines up there in early October. I guess something just bothers me about leaving lines fixed on El Cap for months at a time. I understand that you were working on a damn hard ascent and that you are often (unfortunately) relegated to weekend warrior status. However, if every weekend warrior working on an ascent that was at their limit left lines on El Cap for months, the rock would be a rat's-nest. Certain people should not get free passes that the rest of us are not allowed.
That being said, you are a great guy, Steve, and I hope you get your property back. I met you on Virginia years ago and I would love to have a chance to get to know you better. Good luck.
-Roger Putnam
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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If you leave your bicycle outside and unlocked and it gets stolen, it's theft and a crime but it's your own damn fault it got stolen.
Is there anything different about this situation?
The "good karma/bad karma" / "where is the community?" / "what's up with our tribe?" / "crime in national parks, we're climbers and this shouldn't happen to us" spew is just plain stoopid.
A stupid thief stole something from a stupid victim. So?
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Hey madbolterdude...good post. Thanks
Seems that topic is finally laid to rest...finally.
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fat-n-sassy
Social climber
San Francity, CA
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The REAL question is:
Who wants to rap the nose with me and get those other ropes back?
I bet we could sell them and cover the gas $$ to get to the valley and back.
Does anyone know how many leaver-biners I should bring?
(Sorry 'bout the ropes Steve, hope you get up the route come spring time. Getting up the route, that's what's important here.)
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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From unexpected voices I am hearing it is perfectly OK to leave stuff on the rock for a long time. Is this really the consensus here?
Nope. 24 hours sounds like a reasonable time to me. Now, back to studying the "John Long fell in the gym" thread.
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RideOn
Boulder climber
High in the Desert
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First, I hope you get your cords back.
Second, your cords were up there from AT LEAST the early part of October. Not a month. They were there the entire time I was, and Pete's ledge was hanging at the top of them for a good portion of that time.
And while they may not have been the exact same ropes, the fact remains that there were one or another of yours, Pete's, or Cory's lines up there for basically the entire fall season. Personally, I couldn't care less, it's not like they were on the Zodiac or Salathe or something that sees traffic. But the difference between a month and two months, or them being there mid season when locals expect to find fixed lines and past the end of the normal climbing season, when they start looking like someone just left trash, is an important point.
Third, you can buy a 200meter spool of 10mm static line for about ~$350. I did so this summer, so your cost estimate is WAY off. I also find it hard to believe that with your history, connections, resume etc, that you don't have a rope sponsor.
In any case, good on you for going to retrieve them, hope you get them back, and good luck finishing it off in the spring.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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It's just plain outright theft.
"Officer, I left my diet Coke cup full in the parking lot by the 7-11 a month ago and someone stole it. Half of it had evaporated but it was still drinkable. I was coming to get it. Please prosecute them!"
Yep. Plain and outright. No ambiguity in this situation.
Dave
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Just one more reason I will never ever return to the "Ditch".
Drama of shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitwads.
LOL
That's why you are on internet talking sh#t to random people everyday. Dumbass. Valley seems like a perfect rat nest for you maggot.
Hope Steve gets his ropes back. Doesn't seem to me like he was doing something out of ordinary. I heard of people fixing a few pitches a week for a month up there during winter...someone can define it as trashing the place...but whatever.
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RP3
Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
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Like I said, I really hope the ropes turn up.
However, I can't help but think that this is the NPS response to the theft:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
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Thanks for posting this RideOn
Second, your cords were up there from AT LEAST the early part of October. Not a month. They were there the entire time I was, and Pete's ledge was hanging at the top of them for a good portion of that time.
And while they may not have been the exact same ropes, the fact remains that there were one or another of yours, Pete's, or Cory's lines up there for basically the entire fall season. Personally, I couldn't care less, it's not like they were on the Zodiac or Salathe or something that sees traffic. But the difference between a month and two months, or them being there mid season when locals expect to find fixed lines and past the end of the normal climbing season, when they start looking like someone just left trash, is an important point.
Third, you can buy a 200meter spool of 10mm static line for about ~$350. I did so this summer, so your cost estimate is WAY off. I also find it hard to believe that with your history, connections, resume etc, that you don't have a rope sponsor.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Bachar would go look for them. He would do that for friends.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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First of all, I have to admit that, being about the same age as Steve, that I'm astounded that folks that damn old are still able to contemplate freeing old El cap lines, particularly now that the never-was-that-low hanging fruits have been plucked.
as for the lines, I've had fixed lines bugging me on walls I've done before and have mixed feelings about them, less so for routes that nobody does. Fact is that for folks trying to free hard hard aid routes these days, long periods of fixed lines is standard procedure and it's good that Steve took the care to keep his fixed lines off any trade routes
I'm a little bit dirtbag but it's hard to imagine being dirtbag enough to steal old stiff fixed lines. Few people need them that don't have them and they really aren't worth much. My guess is that whoever took them down either has a grudge against Steve or has his moral panties in a bunch, much like a bolt chopping mentality
peace
karl
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Hey everyone, try this:
Make sure you're logged in, and click on the RideOn icon. This will take you to the SuperTopo member profile. Then click on "forum posts" and you will see that RideOn is a brand new user ID, created specifically to spread disinformation. This brand new user was quoted by micro-penis boy above as though it was somehow factual. O'Really?
My ledge was up there with Steve all of about three days, before it became apparent that we did knott have time to finish the route before he and Cory had to return to work. So we moved kit over to another route, and climbed that instead.
Now, if you are *really* clever, and know how to do this, you will find that RideOn and Graniteclimber are both posting from the same IP address, meaning they are the same person. Fascinating, eh?
Truly, one wonders what is up Granite climber's tw#t.
I should also mention that I jugged and rapped Steve's ropes for those several days I was up there climbing with him, and while they were indeed very stiff and a bit sunbleached, they were not abraded. And being 11mm stiffy caving ropes, a bit of abrasion means nothing, as the ropes are specifically designed to become a bit abraded and still work. I can tell you that the ropes were completely safe, although very herky-jerky to rappel on.
Another thought is that the person who removed the ropes might have honestly believed they were abandoned? In which case, would they please return the ropes to Steve?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Best feckin' popcorn thread in a long time!
Steve, don't hold your breath on ever seeing your stuff, or a bust.
In 1980, I felt like a loser for leaving lines on the first pitches of the P.O. Wall for a week, even though there was no competition over there at the time.
A month is too long. I have my own longstanding boner about "freeclimbing project" ropes being left up at Smith Rocks endlessly BITD.
That being said, dropping all the low ropes and leaving something up high is just straight up DICK MOVE!
Oh yeah, faggot gerbil is classic too.
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WBraun
climber
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Every gerbil that comes out of someone ass this fuking queer Granite sh!thead eats and regurgitates and then spits out here on this forum to only stir up more nu-nesseary sh!t and flame wars.
That's his whole spiel here always.
He's a total gerbil sh!t eating azzhole who hides completely behind his anonymous avatar.
Eliminate this useless POS .....
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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still want to know why granite bumped the SS should pay thread before steve posted his ropes were gone and almost immediately once Steve's thread went up he deleted his post and piled on in Steve's thread.
Granite you knew they were gone before steve posted his thread didn't you
I am the only one who saw this ? Why would you bump it then nuke your post as soon as steve posted? You know who took them don't you?
Silver,
I saw your question about this earlier and have been trying to understand what you are talking about. The only thread that I remember bumping was the Watkins Ethics thread, and I did not delete that.
Also, I certainly did NOT post anything or bump anything about Steve before he started this thread.
Can you post a link to the what you call the Steve should pay thread? I'm not finding it.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Cage match steve vs granite meadows next week ill bring the cage
Edit
Survival please bring the popcorn
You got it man!
Oh, and my money is on Steve to put granite to sleep in about a New York second.
Granite, why have you never posted a trip report or any climbing photos?
The Chief is an ex Navy Chief and acts like it. lol
This too I laugh robustly at! But I like The Chief. I understand military guys.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Make sure you're logged in, and click on the RideOn icon. This will take you to the SuperTopo member profile. Then click on "forum posts" and you will see that RideOn is a brand new user ID, created specifically to spread disinformation. This brand new user was quoted by micro-penis boy above as though it was somehow factual. O'Really?
My ledge was up there with Steve all of about three days, before it became apparent that we did knott have time to finish the route before he and Cory had to return to work. So we moved kit over to another route, and climbed that instead.
Now, if you are *really* clever, and know how to do this, you will find that RideOn and Graniteclimber are both posting from the same IP address, meaning they are the same person. Fascinating, eh?
Truly, one wonders what is up Granite climber's tw#t.
I should also mention that I jugged and rapped Steve's ropes for those several days I was up there climbing with him, and while they were indeed very stiff and a bit sunbleached, they were not abraded. And being 11mm stiffy caving ropes, a bit of abrasion means nothing, as the ropes are specifically designed to become a bit abraded and still work. I can tell you that the ropes were completely safe, although very herky-jerky to rappel on.
Another thought is that the person who removed the ropes might have honestly believed they were abandoned? In which case, would they please return the ropes to Steve?
I hadn't looked at RideOn's profile, but now that I am, I see what you mean. It was obviously formed just to post here. It was not me though. I didn't even realize that you were the "Pete" it mentioned. But sense it was you, if you say that its false information I believe you.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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All the name calling is immature, yes even the Great Werner. Come on Werner, I've looked up to you since the I first saw Yosemite Climber. You could do better than calling someone with whom you disagree a faggot, don'tcha think??.
Whether you like what Granite is saying or not, it is unrealistic to believe that his opinion doesn't exist amongst many people who followed the WoS saga from the beginning.
On the other hand, my impression has always been that Shipoopi is a stand up guy. I've had this impression for years, and I truly hope he gets his stuff back. I also hope the person responsible for *stealing* his stuff gets busted.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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What a new tone to your posts granite big time back peddling coming and ill find that thread.
I was shocked when I saw it as I've spent some time here and never had I seen such bs.
This is really crazy! Do I have it right that you think you saw me bump a Steve Schneider thread right BEFORE Steve posted his stolen ropes thread?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Locker, no one has sh#t on my ropes, and I plan to keep it that way.
When DMT posted his theory that this was a vigilante taking revenge on Steve, my reaction was no way. But thinking about it more, I think it's more possible then I first thought I still think the ropes were probably put in the trash by someone who thought they were abandoned, but anything is possible. The only way to know would be to find the person who took them.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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That being said, dropping all the low ropes and leaving something up high is just straight up DICK MOVE!
Agreed on that. Not the move of somebody protesting fixed lines left for a long time (unless it started to rain or circumstances otherwise dictated in the moment.
Leaving a line up there could have been a pointed jab to draw attention, or add hassle, bolstering the vendetta possibility.
Peace
Karl
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
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Revenge for WOS??
If folks can't fathom that fired up driven young kids do dumb things and usually grow up eventually...well they themselves are probably dumb kids still.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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another trainwreck
i guess the upside is that the mandingo thread is no longer at the top
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
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Well, here it is the day after. it looks like the ropes were taken after 11/16 or 11/17, and before 11/25. so, looks unlikely that i will never get these ropes back, and the material cost is not that big a deal, just my dismay at having my equipment taken. i'd just like to know what happened, what is going on here. since i was actively searching for partners for this route on this forum, i think that kind of identifies the ropes as mine, so i don't see why i should be leaving a note on the rock identifying mine. i was as active on this route as i could be, and redirected the rope straight down, off the dawn wall AND the real nose so they would not be in anybody's way. if anybody has a problem with my fixed lines, first of all, i'm sorry about that, but i hope somebody can contact me directly so i have a chance to respond and act on it. ss
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jstan
climber
|
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Is the train wreck virus infectious? It seems to be. Maybe I better make myself scarce before I catch it.
Ta.
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wallyvirginia
Trad climber
Stockholm, Sweden
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I'm just giving an honest reaction here..
As an outsider reading this thread, I'm going to have to take Graniteclimber's side. He/she may be a bit hyper about it, but in general I think he/she has a point.
Regardless, the opening post struck me as a failed attempt of being a collected man's account for his issues. It really had more of a pathetic, over-emotional nature to it.
I take this from the talking about clues, prosecution, culprits, profiles, young foreign males, bla bla bla..
WTF? It's a couple of old ropes, that has been left to foul the side of a mountain for months, that now are missing. 500$ claim is a joke.
Some dumb kids probably took them.
That said, I think it's wrong to mess with other people's stuff, no matter of circumstances. Hope you get them back.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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wallyvirginia from Stockholm Sweden?
Whoa, there's an odd mix!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
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WTF? It's a couple of old ropes, that has been left to foul the side of a mountain for months, that now are missing. 500$ claim is a joke.
That being the value of the ropes is a joke but taking a few days to drive up from oakland to take them down is probably $500 worth of wasted time and gas, not to mention that now he has to waste even more time and gas getting the rope that wasn't taken down
Peace
Karl
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JamesG
Trad climber
Foster City, CA
|
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Sorry to hear about the ropes, let me know if I can help get the rest down in any way.
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burntheman
Trad climber
slt
|
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interesting to see how these incidents play out based on who is involved. if joe smoe came on the taco and posted,
"REWARD OFFERED To anybody that gives information leading to the arrest and prosecution of said culprit, I will pay them a reward of $100.",
there would be sh#t slinging of enormous proportions at the OP by the same people who stand by Steve now.
"If you return my ropes to me, or offer me a satisfactory monetary compensation, AND a personal apology to me, then i promise to forgive you and that will be the end of it. No rangers, no prosecution, no big deal."
holy f*#king ego!
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wallyvirginia
Trad climber
Stockholm, Sweden
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Interesting to see how these incidents play out based on who is involved.
I witness this same BS everywhere, all the time.
David Beckham can get away with wearing a skirt and make-up, he'll still be considered a super manly soccer hero, because he scored so many goals for England in the past.
In fact, when he goes against the norm, it raises him even further for having the guts to do so, it makes him untouchable.
But when a regular Joe puts on a skirt and makeup. He gets spat on and called a faggot by the same people that worship Beckham.
It's a crazy world.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
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Oh God... seasonal affective disorder... it's back again.
The long nights are starting to wear on the denizens of Supertopo. Relegation to high desert parking lot crags has left a sour taste in our collective mouths...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Silver,
As you know, I am nothing if knott a fisherman. And the fish are really biting today! I barely cast in my lure, and they were on it like they hadn't eaten in weeks. I'm already 2 fer 2.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
|
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Steve's definitely stirred up a shitstorm here.
Some informed perspectives on the specific situation and subject in general.
No shortage of the usual diatribe and odious invective either.
I've left fixed ropes on climbs and there's some that have been hanging for way too long and amount to crag litter. Very few of us who are at all active have avoided crossing the line in terms of what's reasonable or appropriate. Most of us don't like the look of fixed ropes left too long or abandoned.
It can be argued that to some degree, it does matter where the ropes are, who they belong to and their purpose. It doesn't require an unreasonable level of acuity to infer from observation why a rope may be fixed somewhere, whether it's appropriate or if it may have overstayed it's welcome.
Additionally, any equipment left on a climb is unfortunately, open game to whoever chooses to liberate it for whatever reason as there's no honor amongst thieves.
In this case, an adaptation of of an old adage may be apt; "hell hath no fury like climbers scorned."
Regardless of why the ropes were up or how long they were there, they were fair game for the unscrupulous or vindictive.
Steve made an easy target of himself merely raising the issue, especially here and in the context of his history. Many of us accepted Steve's act of contrition for WOS as sincere and evidence of his generally good character. As many of us know, making such amends whether accepted or not, doesn't remove the blight of past misdeeds but merely situate such events in our narratives in a manner that allows us to move forward.
If we don't like someone's fixed ropes, some options are;
Ask them to take them down,
Take them down, keep them and let the owners worry about what may have happened to them,
Take them down ourselves and sh#t on them,
Take them down ourselves and let the owners know where to find them,
Leave the ropes be and find something more important to worry about.
Steve, I wouldn't sweat a 100 meters of snarf low stretch rope.
Consider the context and be careful with your fixed ropes and how you react if someone has a problem with them or they go missing.
Respect,
PB
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I was really intending to back away off on this thread, but I just had to take one more peek, and I see something that I just cannot help responding to.
Steve Schneider says:
since i was actively searching for partners for this route on this forum, i think that kind of identifies the ropes as mine, so i don't see why i should be leaving a note on the rock identifying mine.
So Steve thinks that if you climb it is your responsibility to not only read this forum, but also all of Steve's posts and threads?
Is it just me, or does this strike anyone else as presumptuous?
I read Supertopo much more than I should and I don't have time to read more than a small fraction of the threads.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
New and Bionic too!
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Steve,
I choose to look beyond the "how long were those lines hanging there" question.
Personally, I would not have taken your ropes....because they weren't mine. I wish more people thought that way.
I hope you get your stuff back.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
|
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Sorry to hear about the $$$ loss, but having had to literally tangle with fixed ropes before, my sympathy is pretty limited. On WFLT bozos had left lines up to Awhanee, and being clipped in top and bottom somehow our bags got all snarled up. I didn't take the line, but I did chuck it off once we finished dealing with the cluster. Sure enough, as I looked back the next day, a different party was putting up ANOTHER set of fixed lines for some bandaloop stupidity. Fricking 3 ring circus...
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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On WFLT bozos had left lines up to Awhanee, and being clipped in top and bottom somehow our bags got all snarled up. I didn't take the line, but I did chuck it off once we finished dealing with the cluster. Sure enough, as I looked back the next day, a different party was putting up ANOTHER set of fixed lines for some bandaloop stupidity. Fricking 3 ring circus...
Well as long as guys like you keep taking it up the a*# and keep smiling at the 'bozos' that fix several sets of lines on the same climb it will keep happening. Enjoy. If you had a penis maybe you would speak up about this inconvenience you had.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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It appears to me that climbing permits are just around the corner, climber self conduct or policing is just not possible anymore. Too mainstream.
Chez, you just may well be correct on that matter.
One reason I 'quit' the Valley back in 1977, was because some of the BS that was going on, and continued. Egos, stuff being stolen, name calling. The camaraderie was slowing draining away. Sad.
EDIT
Thread drift
Wallyvirginia, how in the world did Beckham's name get involved in this thread? Oh, I get it.
because he scored so many goals for England in the past
But 17 goals in 115 matches for England? From an attacking midfielder/winger? And always taking free kicks and penalties? A bit short if you ask me. He is overrated. But he has had good advice, and turned his image into millions. World Class? Not a chance. A very good international, yeah I'll go along with that. A good deadball expert, but Ian Harte scored more from deadballs (percentage wise) than Beckham has/did, just for example.
On Beckham: "He cannot kick with his left foot, he cannot head a ball, he cannot tackle and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that he's all right." George Best, a flawed genius
He and his keepers have been very good, no make that extremely good at promoting him, but he never was and never will be world class. Fair play to him though, he has made the utmost of his limited abilities.
And oh yes, go on you Bhoys, qualifying for the knockout stages tonight of the so-called Champions League. Come on Celtic. (Dream final: Barcelona versus Celtic. Well, I did say dream.)
Now back to the News at Nine.
"And in the climbing world, there is a debate going on about fixed lines, stealing ropes and general hysteria".
"It appears that not only do ropes get twisted, but some people's knickers as well".
"This is Paddy the Poster reporting live from Ireland, and a disclaimer, I am not a reporter for the Taco Stand".
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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One mans treasure is another mans junk... just don't be treasuring another mans junk, way homo!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Coz ill give you 100 bucks to not be a dick.
LOL, how about give him 100$ to find out about why he hasn't revealed anything when time frame for his BD ultimatum ran out? That was lulz.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Someone probably saw your shitty conditioned, hard to rap ropes, and pulled them because they were unsafe looking.
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WyoRockMan
Trad climber
Flank of the Bighorns
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Where is the Audio Rant(tm)?
Surely a this deserves one.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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I was reading this thread and thought, 'What a bunch of dicks."
And then I saw this:
Coz ill give you 100 bucks to not be a dick,
and I almost peed.
So I guess I'm one too.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Didn't some guys named Robbins, Pratt, Chouinard and Frost opine 50 years ago that using fixed ropes in Yosemite wasn't good style? And didn't they do their best to live up to their words? And wasn't that the accepted ethos for decades? So what's changed? Apart, that is, from climbers now having a lot more money, knowledge and equipment.
Of course, old farts rarely know anything worth hearing, eh?
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jstan
climber
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I have a confession to make for something I stole fifty years ago. I stole a really nice shirt, a pair of pants, and a balaclava in the Adirondacks. Some one had left them fixed in a garbage pit and I ignored the possibility they were an essential part of a world shaking project. Now I want to allay anyone's feelings that I am totally without principle. I also could have stolen a pair of socks and a set of underwear. Subliminally I must have allowed for the fact my taking those might have resulted in someone dying. The latter are, after all, essential gear.
I am assured the owner of that clothing is out there reading ST. Therefore I want to apologize here for my heinous disregard and to make a request. i just want you to know that was my favourite shirt for more than ten years. I still have its remains in my nostalgia drawer and will return it if you would like.
If you decide to fix another shirt please make it of the same tartan and size.
Thank you,
Edit:
On another matter along these lines.
In our efforts to clean up an area that climbers use in JT I am storing some items that were located near the East edge. I need to get them back to their owners. If anyone here knows someone who used the area and had stuff on the East side could you ask them to get in touch with me. Appreciate it.
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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Hey Patrick, as long as you're quoting Georgie Best, here's a good one from
back when he was still playing (and a player):
"If I'd been born ugly, the world would never have heard of Pele."
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I'm truly concern for SS and his rant, really seems absurd.
The post and it's threatening bad karma and criminal prosecution hit me the wrong way. But I think you nail it in calling it a rant When you think about like that, it really isn't absurd.
If I drove down to the Valley just to take down my ropes and found the ropes gone (no ropes for next project) and my trip wasted (waste of gas, waste of time)I would be angry also and might be doing some ranting of my own, and it could be just as "bad" or worse than anything Steve said.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Mighty Hiker....Didn't someone named Warren Harding, a climber equally as well known as Robbins, Pratt et.al. put up the first serious climb on the Captain, by far the most well known climb in the world using fixed gear of all sorts, fueling the ethos debate still raging today? Surely your old enough to remember him. I am equally humbled by both Robbins and Harding....
And only Steve Schneider knows his Karmic score: How much good or bad he's done collectively in his life and thus non of us may judge his Karma nor can we judge others'.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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If I drove down to the Valley just to take down my ropes and found the ropes gone (no ropes for next project) and my trip wasted (waste of gas, waste of time)I would be angry also and might be doing some ranting of my own, and it could be just as "bad" or worse than anything Steve said.
What? Sanity and Balance is taking hold on this thread?! The Mayan are right! The transformation of the world is at hand
Peace
karl
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slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
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Steve, my former neighbor and generally good guy and someone I would consider a friend,
Do yourself a favor and delete this thread. Seriously. I don't want to have to visit you in prison.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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THREAD DRIFT (but this thread could use a bit of lightheartedness)
Scuffy B
One of the best but flawed
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
I used to go missing a lot... Miss Canada, Miss United Kingdom, Miss World.
George Best
I've stopped drinking, but only while I'm asleep.
George Best
In 1969 I gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life.
George Best
I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: "What's an IQ?"
George Best, Best on Paul Gascoigne.
I was in for 10 hours and had 40 pints - beating my previous record by 20 minutes.
George Best, regarding a blood transfusion for his liver transplant
Scuffy what's the one story, he's in The Ritz, and the room service waiter comes in to see Best and Miss World on the bed with loads of pounds notes scattered all over, and the waiter says: "Where did it all go wrong Mr Best?"
I knew a guy in London and he was drinking mates with Best. He said that George always wanted to pick a table near the women's toilets. "Why?", "Because at some point tonight, every woman is going to have to use the loo," Best replied. And sure enough, women would be leaving their telephone numbers on George's table.
Okay, back to fixed lines, litter and hysterics.
EDIT
I used to have a football pal, Mike Simon, that I played with on a couple of teams until the the San Jose Earthquakes (the older team in the NASL, not the renamed Houston Dynamo or the new San Jose Earthquakes) drafted him. Mike said that Best was a footballing genius, as he played with Best for the Earthquakes.
In 1982, Northern Ireland having qualified for the 1982 World Cup, NI manager Billy Bingham said he would take a fit George Best to the finals.
Around April, 1982 Middlesborough were bottom of the old English First Division and wanted to sign Best as a 'gate draw', you know, bums on seats in theater talk. The Earthquakes said: "Okay George, go to England, get match fit , go to the World Cup, and then come back to us."
Best went a missing for two weeks on a binge. No World Cup, which some may say why he wasn't a great player. But of course, he was.
A common description of his place in football history is summed up by the quote "Maradona good; Pelé better; George Best."
What does this have to do with climbing? Absolutely nothing, but I did state at the start that it was thread drift.
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Scott Thelen
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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I think it's karma for naming a peak in the Sierra Mt Bandaloop :-}
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Steve- I am sorry your lines got taken. That is lame. I am not the biggest fan of leaving fixed lines up for long stretches, BUT yours were on an obscurity and were nicely strung up. I saw them at the end of October and they were well out of the way of everything. No reason anyone should have taken them without contacting you or making it known they were doing so.
did you double check it wasn't the NPS?
To (most) of the rest of you --- You don't climb, hike, walk, look at or go near el cap. Don't convolute a real issue with an issue of the past. Shut the f*#k up if you having nothing to say directed at the issue of someone jugging and taking the lines. Go back to your armchair and rub your balls some more.
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RP3
Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
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+1 Dave!
There is a lot of BS on this thread (~95% of posts) that is not related to the real issues.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Didn't some guys named Robbins, Pratt, Chouinard and Frost opine 50 years ago that using fixed ropes in Yosemite wasn't good style? And didn't they do their best to live up to their words? And wasn't that the accepted ethos for decades? So what's changed?
The thing that changed is that those guys weren't trying to climb EL Cap free. The game was merely to "get up" El Cap, and you could even pound as many pitons as you liked in the process
For now, even though I'm not a fan of long term fixed lines, the game even for the elite, involves repeated trips working incredibly hard pitches several number grades harder than those guys dreamed of.
Someday maybe people will be so insanely good they can just go send that stuff onsight but that day doesn't seem so soon
Peace
Karl
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Suppose the person had refused to give you the gear you claimed was yours. If you had assaulted that person, since it was only a claim that it was your gear, you would have been charged with assault and battery in another person's residence. Even were your legal defense ultimately successful,
CAUTION! This is the OJ defense. assaulting someone to reclaim one's property.
You know, the guy sitting in jail.
physical attacks are always wrong, legally. Don't let your testoterone put you in the slammer.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Let me
Paraphrase what Chief said...
You lost some old shite line you abandon for a month, get over it and harden the Fcuk up.
Edit, I'll give u a 100 bucks to stop posting, about ur True Nose attempt.
Wow, what's cozzie's rub with Steve?
Shpoopi, get back to your desk and sell whatever cozzie's selling!!!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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How many people on this thread have completed a route on el cap?
How many people on this thread have paid taxes for the purchase, upkeep and maintenance of Yosemite?
In other words....you don't own it, Bud.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Silver,
Did I sleep
With ur girlfriend BITD?
You leg humping psycho,
Steve and I r great friends and he works for me, so go F yourself shite bird.
And sure send me a 100 bucks stalker boy.
Edit, I'm truly concern for SS and his rant, really seems absurd.
Guys like Silver and Cragman just make me nervous.
haha,
i knew $100 was'nt enough to change human nature.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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There's no reason to take personal offense or to get paranoid. The ropes probably looked like abandoned junk and could not possibly have any value to anyone else. Someone was just cleaning the sh#t off El Cap and that's to be praised.
Maybe someone is out to get Mr Sneider or was really pissed about the lines being fixed, but I doubt it. Why the topmost rope wasn't taken, I wonder if someone was bailing or rapping a nearby route that joined with this one, and took down the lower ropes but didn't want to go up to get the last one? That's my guess.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I guess I just don't like the OP approach of what is clearly not a slam dunk situation being described as a federal crime, with a reward offered (oh, and "guilty"....we don't need to bother with courts and such), with discussion of attacks on the "perps".
You do wonder if Steve would have been so forthcoming in his confession of past sins, if the victims had recently posted their consideration that it was a felony and offered a reward.
Steve seems to have a non-understanding of how Karma works. He is willing to bathe in the nurturing forgiveness of others, but is not willing to extend that same spirit to other souls, at least in principle.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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I like old sayings because they are so true...
This is a really great one for this thread.
If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it.
Plus the purpose of anger is to, protect, defend, and fix problems. Now the anger being expressed on this thread, which is all about beating up a person into a pulp, with no way to appease, correct the situation except by completely dominating your foe. When there is actually nothing at risks beyond people's egoes and ideas. You are just giving yourself a heart attack.
Man, when you are on your death bed, is this B.S. going to be on your mind? If not, then please go do something that would matter, go do the stuff that will bother you when breathing your last breath. The stuff that dying people say that they should have done. Seriously, don't waste your life. Live Bigger than this shiest. Stop wasting your energy here. There is nothing to see, move on.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it.
Is this really the same person who posted earlier in this thread? The same one who called me so many not so "nice" names?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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gc,
rules and sayings are best for other people to follow....when will you ever learn?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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gc,
rules and sayings are best for other people to follow....when will you ever learn?
Yes, but to be fair, if I followed the rules and sayings I've recommended to other people, I'd be rich and famous now.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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gc
no, you wouldn't be rich. For the obvious reasons.
and you're quickly becoming infamous in this community.
SS:
What i would really like to just happen is to have my ropes returned to me, without all the rangers getting involved.
...
The culprit is guilty of stealing $500 worth of rope in a federal park, which i believe is like a full on felony. Steve makes a statement of intent, and another of fact.
He retracted his reward "offer" as Steve originally meant it in jest, or perhaps pique.
My synopsis
SS left ropes on a tough new route he was working on the Nose.
3 of them were removed by someone unknown except it wasn't the Rangers.
By some standards of The Valley the ropes hadn't been up there particularly long.
from gc:
You left TRASH up on the wall for a month or more and someone removed it. Are you rich enough to call 2 climbing ropes trash?
Lots of climbers leave ropes up longer than a month.....for at least a dozen good reasons.
SS wants his ropes back.
Reasonable.
SS has involved the Rangers to check that they hadn't removed them.
SS apologized publicly and directly to the offended parties about his WOS silliness.
SS is a helluva better climber than 9/10 of the people on this thread (irrelevant), especially including me.
SS is a helluva nice guy and is always contributing to the climbing community.
graniteclimber
why do you have such a burr up your arse about Steve wanting his ropes back?
WHO the hell are you?
Fred Glover
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Fred Glover
Are you rich enough to call 2 climbing ropes trash?
You would have benefited from reading the thread before posting.
He lost 3 ropes, not 2. They were static lines, not "climbing ropes."
Also, there's new ropes, used ropes and used up, worn-out mank ropes. From Steve's description of his ropes, these were used up worn-out mank ropes, and yes I would call them trash ropes.
These are ropes that if I had cleaned them, I would not keep for my own use. I would throw them in the dumpster. I would do this even if I did not have the money to buy new ones.
Fred, this was covered already. Some of your other questions are also covered. If you read the two threads and still have questions, then ask.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I have to agree coz....To locker i give double -2 finger salutes while he lives in the hotel room of his mind....Schnidy rules...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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At least horse-face toilet plunger is still on board....! RJ
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Granite,
I did not call you names. I simply did no agree with you.
AFS
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I repeat,
I jugged and rapped these ropes. They are old/stiff caving ropes, and a bit herky jerky on rappel, but they are emphatically knott junk, and have plenty of life left in them for the exact purpose they were being used for - fixing pitches to jug and rap on.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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First:
Shut Up! ... Damn fools, bunch of wankers talking sh#t while I bet most have done their share of pooping up their lives, never had the balls to clean it up like Steve.
Then:
I did not call you names. I simply did no agree with you.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I jugged and rapped these ropes. They are old/stiff caving ropes, and a bit herky jerky on rappel, but they are emphatically knott junk, and have plenty of life left in them for the exact purpose they were being used for - fixing pitches to jug and rap on.
I've been thinking this over, and I now think that there is more of chance that they were taken by someone with malicious intent then I thought earlier. This based on Ride On's second post that he later deleted. I haven't been to the Valley in months and did not know that you were working this project with Steve. I thought it was weird all quickly you jumped on that and outright LIED about how he had the same IP address. It's pretty clear that you pissed people up there, Pete. Also, a lot of people don't like you for all kinds of reasons: stalking women (allegedly) throwing pigs of the rock, you name it. You've been thrown off other forums for this. I'll never forget how you offended a woman so much that she publicly accused you here of giving her an STD. There is much more motive for this to be a theft made out of spite.
Or since you are such an unscrupulous liar, maybe you took them Pete? I don't think you did, but I think you'd be capable of it.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
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10/11/12 ROPES RECOVERED. Two days ago i was contacted by the party that removed my ropes. They were NOT STOLEN as i thought, but were part of a misguided attempt to clean up what they perceived as garbage. The party intends to get my ropes back to me. i am happy about that, and especially glad to know that my ropes were not poached. The party said if i had just left a note, they would have left my lines alone. ss
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
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bump
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
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Wow a lot of hand wringing histrionics over a misinterpreted good deed.
Oh well all's well that ends well. Glad the mystery was solved and no one was seriously harmed.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
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They were NOT STOLEN as i thought, but were part of a misguided attempt to clean up what they perceived as garbage.
Good news. BTW, If this was a good deed gone bad, I'm still curious why they left the top line up there? Who cleans trash and leaves a cord stranded in space?
Steve, I talked to Robbie L. last night, good stuff!!!
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Powder
Trad climber
SF Bay Area
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
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Glad you got your ropes back! :]
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
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10/11/12 ROPES RECOVERED. Two days ago i was contacted by the party that removed my ropes. They were NOT STOLEN as i thought, but were part of a misguided attempt to clean up what they perceived as garbage. The party intends to get my ropes back to me. i am happy about that, and especially glad to know that my ropes were not poached. The party said if i had just left a note, they would have left my lines alone. ss
I am glad that you got your ropes back. After some of the discussion I priced out what new static ropes cost now, and they're not cheap.
Your initial post rubbed me the wrong way and I reacted to that. And when I was attacked or that, it just made me dig in further. I'm glad my gut impression of why they were removed was right, but am more glad that I was wrong in guessing they'd thrown them away.
Also, I said it before, but after I put myself "in your shoes" I realized that what you posted was not different from what I would have wanted to post if it had happened to me.
Edit: I'm also curious why they left the top rope.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
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Edit: I'm also curious why they left the top rope.
Me too, STILL CURIOUS!
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
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i just spoke to the person who removed my lines and now know the whole story. apparently, this person was asked by a person in uniform if he could take the lines down that were mine. no idea who that person in uniform was. kind of unprecedented...a ranger asking an unknown climber to remove fixed lines. without that little push, my ropes would have been there for me to remove on dec 4th. as it was, they were taken down ten days before that, on 11/23.
anyway, on the recovery effort, a couple of noobs were along and one of them got scared on the last fixed rope, and basically had to be rescued off the rope, and that was the end of the rope retrieval effort, and why the last rope never got cleaned off.
so, we had a great talk about it, and hit it off on the phone and are even thinking about roping up for the big stone next year. go figure! ss
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jstan
climber
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Dec 11, 2012 - 07:27pm PT
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In a better world we would have allowed for this as a possibility right at the start.
By direct description the ropes looked like crap. Wasn't this enough?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Dec 11, 2012 - 07:29pm PT
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That's a relief. My car was broken into a couple months back and I know what its like to get robbed. Now on to the next supertaco drama ....
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Sep 12, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
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Fixed lines on Real Nose, who's trying to bag it?
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| Messages 1 - 155 of total 155 in this topic |
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