Discussion Topic |
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Messages 1 - 329 of total 329 in this topic |
Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
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Wow, I hope that's not true. That's also not easy to do at a gym these days.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
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John, hurt in a gym? That does not sound right.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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I could believe that John Long hurt a gym.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
member since 2002
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
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John has been known to climb at Rockreation in WLA. Doesn't Fluoride work for them? Maybe she knows.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:35pm PT
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It would appear that he did in fact injure himself at the Gym, he's resting at the moment and I'm sure he'll tell us all about it soon. . .df
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:44pm PT
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Ho Man!!...that blows. Here is hoping you heal up quick and well John.
It can happen to anyone
Feckin gyms.... great for developing strength/endurance but I still don't like em much.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
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wow, that is some irony, I am sure John will write a great story about it!
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
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Johns been known to show his bone now and then. Nothing wrong with that.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
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Jeezuz Crisis!
Waiting for confirmation of this unfortunate rumour before launching into blistering excoriation and offering heartfelt best wishes.
PB
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
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Oh and if you screwed up John please let us know... we will enjoy mercilessly skewering our favorite resident LEGEND...
Hmm I'd hate to be the belayer if that is where the error occurred...
OOOOOOO mebbe the gear failed...cause you are so LARGO... and we can have an orgy of postmortem analysis....
and of course
yes
YER GUNNA DIE!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
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If John got hurt, doing it at the gym would be about right.
I just got off the DL after nine months. I fell off the top of the boulder at our climbing gym, When I think of some of the highball falls I took while bouldering in the ancient days before pads, I'm still amazed that the only time I hurt myself bouldering was falling less than eight feet, feet-first, onto pads.
If you really are hurt, Largo, best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery.
John
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
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OOOMan..... snapped it like a birdy leg...
Heal up John.
So sorry
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:35pm PT
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I'm sure he's out riding his uni one footed right now.
Heal up Well Largo.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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U gotta love the modern age, when your crunch at the local gym is all over the evening news....
Hope all is well Largo. As soon as possible at least. Yikes.
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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Jack severed his achilles tendon at the gym once years ago when a foothold spun....was up just one bolt, so fell hard and slammed his leg into the wall, and his achilles just rolled on up his leg! :-( Brutal and long recovery (I think it was 3 months non-weightbearing), but he recovered 100% in time.........
John, if this rumor is true, I hope you heal quickly!!
cheers,
Pam
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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baaaa, gym climbers...
hope you get well soon largo, tell someone to bring a laptop to the hospital bed so you can tell us the story
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
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There sure have been more accidents and bone-brakes at my local climbing gym than I've heard about at the Reed's Pinnacle Area. Just from watching the flashing lights in front of the place, I'd say there's been a broken femur, three fractured vertebrae, a broken ankle, and who knows what else due to either being dropped by a belayer or falling off a bouldering wall. Heck, I tore my rotator cuff and dislocated my arm there too.
Much safer outdoors than in the 'controlled' indoor environment.
Heal up quick, Largo!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
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He's bound to wax philosophically about it once he's back on-line. The mind usually imposes on the body, sometimes it's the other way around. Gotta suck as subjective experiences goes.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 30, 2012 - 04:59pm PT
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FALL ON PLASTIC - DRIVEN INDOORS BY INCLEMENT WEATHER - NO HARD HAT
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
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Just spoke to him. In the hospital and pretty groggy, but still indomitable in spirit.
He said he was pinching a puny wafer with maximum might when his foot, which was splayed out on a slanting rugosity, slipped.
Rick
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:02pm PT
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Heal up soon Mr. Long!
Erik
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
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FALL ON PLASTIC - DRIVEN INDOORS BY INCLEMENT WEATHER - NO HARD HAT
haha...
Get better John...Hey, if you've gotta break your leg you picked the best place.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:05pm PT
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Sending some good vibes your way, Mr. Largo
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:06pm PT
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Wishing John a speedy and complete recovery.
Cruel invective to follow.
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Brian
climber
California
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:07pm PT
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Aw shite.
Get well soon John! Hopefully it will be a quick and complete healing process.
Brian
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:09pm PT
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John, it was great meeting you at the crag a few months ago, and it would be a pleasure to rope up again sometime, so heal up quick, and well! I'm glad his spirits are intact, even if his leg isn't.
Josh
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
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I gave up bouldering when I turned 50. The elderly human body just ain't made for that kind of abuse. ha If it wasn't a twisted ankle it was a pulled finger-tendon, then a tweaked knee. And each one would put me out for 6 months or so.
get well soon.....
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Gene
climber
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:23pm PT
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Largo's gonna hafta get that MD kid of his to wave her magic chicken over this injury.
Cartoon, please. Nice image.
g
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:24pm PT
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Heal up! Damn.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:39pm PT
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How do you navigate to the first post in that thread linked above?
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:40pm PT
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Damn.
Another casualty of the woefully insufficient instruction gyms provide before letting climbers endanger themselves.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
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It would be cool if James went to visit him in the hospital.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:45pm PT
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Heal up fast! I knew real climbing could never take you down.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
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I gave up bouldering when I turned 50
Me too. It's the jumps and landings, even on mats, that are brutal after that age. (Yes, I know, there are always exceptions)
Sorry to hear of this, John. Heal up good . . .
;>(
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10b4me
Boulder climber
member since 2002
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Nov 30, 2012 - 05:54pm PT
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that's a bummer. heal up John.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
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Best wishes to you for a quick recovery, John!
Cosmic: I actually lived in a cast very similar to that one for four months. Badly broken femur. Sucked! (Nice photo manipulation, though...)
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:04pm PT
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He said he was pinching a puny wafer with maximum might when his foot, which was splayed out on a slanting rugosity, slipped.
Sounds like he was unroped, or he would have mentioned the part about the belayer failure. Hopefully it will heal completely - the older you get, the longer these injuries never go away ...
Also hope he got detailed pictures of the accident scene, as he taught us all to do. Especially the bone sticking out. At a minimum, we should get to see the stitches.
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:05pm PT
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The Largor they are, the harder they fall.
Sorry to hear this, JL. Heal up fast.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:22pm PT
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Hope your recovery is short and you heal up soon John.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:29pm PT
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Hey John, heal up fast.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
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Ouch! Sorry t hear that JL. Honor the healing process and think pure thoughts.
Mal
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
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I'm sure there will also be a cute nurse or two around Largo can regale with larger than life tales ;).
It'll be like the last pitch of Astroman, sans cord. He pops on the final move, but then does some Warner Brothers cartoon stuff on the way down, steps off the falling elevator at the last second, and only bungs an ankle!
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:42pm PT
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Feed him some Percocet and give him a typewriter so we'll all reap the rewards in his next book.
Fodder for Accidents in North American Mountaineering, Largostyle.
Heal up JL!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:42pm PT
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Ho man, it was dark outside, and the light indoors was no better ....
Frick, no one will ever care about my sprained thumb with guys like Largo going all compound on us.
Heal up man, we're still shy a couple of books of great stories...
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norma r
Mountain climber
Ventura County
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
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Thank goodness it wasn't the sight of a pretty girl entering the gym to make Largo loose his concentration. That would never happen!
Heal fast, Gramps!
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:57pm PT
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pinching a puny wafer with maximum might when his foot, which was splayed out on a slanting rugosity
Now that sounds just like John!
Heal up fast.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 30, 2012 - 07:07pm PT
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Now it is going to be called "pulling a Largo".
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Nov 30, 2012 - 07:11pm PT
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Sh#t happens to the best of us.
I was in a gym climbing on one of those self-belay machines. Up down-up down, over and over until one time, I had a "senior moment" and forgot to clip in.
I was 2/3 the way up and came off. Fortunately, I landed on a matt; and proceeded to limp out, kind of embarrassed. I finally got a cat/scan a week later, since it was still hurting. The result-a fracture thru my tibia.
Heal up fast John.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 30, 2012 - 07:16pm PT
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Gawdamn gyms sound dangerous......
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
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that sucks... there is a mantra I repeat when I'm at the gym "don't get hurt in the gym, don't get hurt in the gym..."
of course, it happens...
heal up old-dad Largo!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 30, 2012 - 07:22pm PT
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Ed, or working on the roof, or up in a tree!
Gyms are for hardmen. People that don't climb in gyms are tossers.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 30, 2012 - 07:55pm PT
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How in the hell does a honed master such as Largo deck in gym?
Was he unroped?
This report is so way homo.
Largo is so much larger than all this way homo reporting ......
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Nov 30, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
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Whoa man, shoulda stuck with FS'n Left Ski Track and the like...
Heal up and best wishes on your recovery
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Betelnut
Mountain climber
So. California
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Nov 30, 2012 - 07:58pm PT
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More musings from the genius, Werner.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
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a bad owie. here's to good mending, john.
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strangeday
Trad climber
Brea ca.
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:08pm PT
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Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery... Guess it shows that it can happen to anyone.
I've seen more compound fractures in the gym than in motorcross racing.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:13pm PT
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Spandex and helmets involved, always ends up bad.
Hope this is a farce, if it ain't, hope your out of pain now.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
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Hoh Man that sux. Heal quickly and completely.
This is for you John.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:17pm PT
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The worlds 'spose to end in 12 days and now this!!???
It's more than I can take !!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
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Bummer, dude.
Ankles are slow. Good luck with it
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:25pm PT
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Just goes to show how much more dangerous the gym is than a place like, oh, say, Borneo.
Dang dude. Speedy recovery.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
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Wow, so yous guys jump all over a single unverified internet post? I hope it's a troll.
And if knott - heal up well!
Gyms are dangerous. You could fall. You could get hurt. Stick to the big walls.
Hey, you litigious Merricans - where's a lie-yer when you need one*?
Cheers,
A Former Frankenankle,
Pretty much recovered
*C'mon, it's Friday night, eh?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
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Recover fast, John!
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Michelle
Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:36pm PT
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heal up buddy!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 30, 2012 - 08:40pm PT
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Werner's just blowing smoke....again.
And trolling....
And having fun....
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 30, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
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Temporary thread drift:
PHILO: if, as it seems, that is your original work/drawing, you are incredibly, unbelievably skilled. Both the thought behind it and the actually pencil-to-paper work are just amazing.
You've posted it before and I've always assumed that it is your original work, but never taken the time to comment.
LARGO: Damn, the last thing a guy needs.... I hope you heal well and that you keep your normal great attitude and sense of humor.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
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Nov 30, 2012 - 09:07pm PT
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Well that sucks, heal up well JL.
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tiki-jer
Trad climber
fresno/clovis
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Nov 30, 2012 - 09:38pm PT
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Speedy Recovery Sir! And what Henny said!
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 30, 2012 - 09:39pm PT
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check out his chalk bag, or is it too homo, Herr Braun?
ROFLMAO !!!!!
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go-B
climber
Hebrews 1:3
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Nov 30, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
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Cr@p! Heal up PDQ!
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Nov 30, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
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So sorry to hear this;....If you need anything, John;.....give a call (760) 366-9395........
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Nick
climber
portland, Oregon
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:03pm PT
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Damn Gyms. Feel better John.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
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Largo, you da man! Don't worry, heal well!
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
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Hoh Man....I don't believe it for a second!
edit....Sorry to hear about that John. Get well.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:35pm PT
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Is it too early to start blaming a Kryptonite infused Grigri? The top climbing writer of the age augered in at a gym? WTF? That's like saying things went bad after Ron Jeremy slept with Lorena Bobbitt and she cut his slong off. Just...not....right.
Add me to the long list of well wishers John. Heal up.
Cosmic: LOL. Thanks for the entertaining comments all the way down the thread too.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:35pm PT
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That totally sucks.
I destroyed an ACL tendon and tore some of the meniscus jumping down a few feet in the gym. I've jumped off boulders without pads from way higher hundreds of times. It is now ten months after the reconstruction operation and I'm climbing ok but can't really run or jump rope without pain.
I'm convinced that landing on a pad was actually the cause; my ankle rolled into the squishiness, allowing my knee to displace inward. But I should also admit that because of the pads and the disco atmosphere of the gym, I may not have been paying as much attention as I should have to how I landed.
Unfortunately, (a) gravity never sleeps and (b) it is just as strong indoors as out.
Hope you heal up well Largo.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:39pm PT
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Sorry to hear about this John. Take care, heal well. You'll be pulling down again soon.
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
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man that'd be rad if this were a troll.
It's more 'unbelievable' than watching the race for the Nose.
But if not then a speedy recovery and painless wishes sent your way Largo.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:49pm PT
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i bet somebody at the gym is gonna get their ass kicked,
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Nov 30, 2012 - 11:19pm PT
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Largo, This should give you lots of time to confuse everyone some more by posting constantly on your "what is mind" thread while that thing heals up.
May it heal up quickly.
Still no proof this actually happened.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Nov 30, 2012 - 11:20pm PT
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Get well fast, there's work to be done. Hopefully you ride goofy.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 30, 2012 - 11:21pm PT
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Largo dude... I totally hope you're not hurt every bad
Cause then it would be Ok to mercilessly tease you, otherwise I'll feel bad
It's just too bad it didn't happen in some larger than life sexy story
Like tripping over the toilet in a drunken stupor
Or skidding off some hi-ball Mountain Unicycle test-piece
Wishing you all the best recovery and whatever journey this takes you on
PEace
Karl
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 11:23pm PT
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This is why I avoid the climbing gyms.
Just sayin'...
Heal up, John!
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Nov 30, 2012 - 11:35pm PT
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Oh, what a bummer. So sorry to hear this.
Hope the pain passes quickly.
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BillL
Trad climber
NM
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Nov 30, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
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John, Sometimes indelicate things must be said: get a stool softener to take with the pain killers. Best wishes and hope to hear some more stories from you. Bill
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WBraun
climber
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no one ever broke their foot climbing outside...
It's the truth.
Only the material body breaks the owner never does ......
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Damn, but if these aren't just the sort of risks you face when you can't pass the belay test.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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It happens to the best, Largo.
Mark Powell, just to name the best of them.
Get well and WTF.
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MH2
climber
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It could happen to anyone.
Now I almost believe that.
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Borut
climber
french, spider, cheater
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How are you doing sir?
All the best while recovering!
Borut
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HME
climber
Los Angeles
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Hello All,
Before the rumor mill gets to vicious... John did sustain a lower leg injury from a fall at Rockreation West LA. As far as the details that will be his story to tell...
I have been with him all day and through the night tonight and he is doing well. He will pick up the white courtesy phone when the meds have worn off enough and he can find it.
All your love, healing energy and wishes for a speedy recovery are much appreciated.
Hot Mama Erin
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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dude, get your prance back on ... quick!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, largo...
sorry took so long to get in the flow here...
at first, i thought it was just 'you all playing around'
with 'picture posts' or links, etc... so i was busy
reading elsewhere at the ol' taco...
well...
it got so long here, that i got worried about you...
whewww... glad to hear you are going to be okay...
god bless...
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Wishing you a speedy recovery Mr. Largo
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HME
climber
Los Angeles
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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And you thought that mtn uni thing was rad!!!!!!!!!!
Heal up well and soon, John.
Ho man.......
TY
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Heal up JL!! I dig the gunboat biceps ripping through that hospital smock.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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That sucks breaking an ankle...Shouldn't these gyms have thick cushioning at the bottom of the routes...?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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John! WTF!
Heal up well!
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WBraun
climber
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Grim ......
There's danger at every step.
There will be a new Gym design.
The floor will rise as you move up.
There will be no more danger.
It will become the brave new world inside?
Heal up John ........
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Powder
Trad climber
SF Bay Area
|
|
Heal up & wish you a full recovery!!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
OWWWWW!
You'll be "speed Crutchin" in no time though I'll bet.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
|
If they would just install the walls on pontoons floating on top of a pool, falls would be a lot less dangerous.
Apparently they do.
Kit does not include woman instructor.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
One of the worst breaks I'm aware of was a guy at the gym...bouldering. He fell and his foot caught behinds a big hold a few feet off the wall.
Snap.
Bone.
Blood.
Ambulance.
Cleared the gym out instantly.
Heal up fast JL. Super grim.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
|
|
Best wishes for a fast recovery. Let that photo not be the last image we have of Mr. Long.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
|
|
Yowza, just saw the picture..ouch..)-;
I hope you are not in the hospital tooo long, Long.
Wishing you a quick full recovery...with visits from your beautiful daughters and many friends.
Salud...
nita
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
|
|
John!
Climbing wasn't suppose to get more dangerous as we got older.
From what I can tell from your hospital room picture, that looks like a nasty break. Can't see the PCA pump in the photo. Hopefully your nurses are keeping your pain well under control.
Lordy, man: I wish there was something I could do to help.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
|
|
I hope that picture doesn't mean you had to have surgery, but if you did, I hope it fixed everything up and you're on your way back to 100%.
Indulge in the kindness of others for a while and be good to yourself while you heal. :-)
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chappy
Social climber
ventura
|
|
John,
Hope you are back up and moving around with all your previous gusto as soon as possible!
Chappy
|
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
I mourn Longs longing for relief in longstanding agony.
Best wishes for a perfect mend before long.
Jennie Long
|
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BillL
Trad climber
NM
|
|
The recovery involved / involves surgery (based on some photo details).
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all in jim
climber
|
|
This is "The Only Blasphemy".
Heal up fast, John!
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Hardly Visible
Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
|
|
I guess we could say the mighty have fallen.
Best wishes for speedy recovery.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
|
|
Oh Boy....ouch....
Susan
|
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Kenygl
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
|
|
No one is immune. Heal quickly Largo.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
I know you're into subjective experience, but isn't this carrying it a little too far?
Screw the insights, just go for the good drugs and get better soon!
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
|
where's the machine that goes... PING!
|
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
Any news on the extent of the injuries and prognosis? Heal fast John!
|
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
|
|
Largo, you should of spent more time outdoors learning the basics in relative safety before you ventured indoors to the real world of plastic.
BTW, whats the story?
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Gene
climber
|
|
Looking on the brighter side, this temporary setback may give John enough time to finish his new book:
The Plasticmasters: California Gym Climbers in the 2010s
Heal up fast and well, Largo!
g
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
|
|
Bummer John,
I was hoping this was posted by a troll at his/her worst.
It sounds like you have good folks around you and an obvious strong support system (if needed) in 'the community'.
Get well soon!
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
Get better.
I broke my nose once by tripping on a shoelace. I broke my big toe while drunkenly stumbling back to my tent.
You might get whacked walking across the street.
So don't take no crap about getting hurt in a gym.
I'll pray for ya.
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|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
rrider, That powerhouse of a woman is the perfect big-wall designated pig-hauler!
She looks as if she could deck Largo (or any of us) with not much effort.
Sheesh, only seventeen?
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m.
Trad climber
UT
|
|
Dear Largo, I'm so sorry to hear about your accident. If our fond wishes could make you well, you'd be walking out of there today. Love!
maria.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
From sympathy to parody in 24 hours. Sheesh!
Get well soon, Largo!
|
|
McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
|
|
Well, it does look like he's had a few too many Oreo shakes.
I went through my 60th birthday this year with a blown Achilles - that sure made me feel old but all is well now and I'm ready to kick ass again - I wish the same comeback to you Largo!
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
|
|
so sorry John get well soon!
|
|
OR
Trad climber
|
|
Oh bummer. One of my heros. Largo will heal up quick i'm sure. I gotta be honest though...I hold that guy fully responsible for 25+++ years of climbing addiction. It was his early vids I watched that put me onto the whole climbing thing and soon had me living under a dirty rock in some place called Camp 4 for a couple of seasons. Heal up Sir.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
John, gonna bury the hatchet with Go-Bee and Blueblocker and hold some prayer sessions for ya.
Modern medicine is great. They charge you fifty bucks for every one of those paper pillow covers. A dude comes for your sponge bath. You get so constipated from the opiates that they time your bowel movements. When the threat of the enema grows strong, go sit on that toilet or bed pan for an hour to sh#t out a series of peas. Like Milk Duds.
No way am I ever gonna deface my pride by getting a f*#king enema.
Morpheine is about the cheapest drug on the planet. A big vial costs 10 bucks or something. Use it liberally, and if you can steal some, send it to me. For proper and legal disposal, of course.
|
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Mark Rodell
Trad climber
Bangkok
|
|
John, Sorry this happened to you. I wish you a full recovery.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
|
|
John,
I figure you'll have time to follow this thread...
I did a couple of laps on Hummingbird in the rain today and was thinking about your knarly Mono exploits on the steepest sections.
I think unless you've seen it with your own eyes, it's hard to comprehend the level of talent it takes to manage off-road on one wheel. I work my ass off trying to stay vertical on two !
I know it is especially hard on athletes to be side-lined by such injuries and I hope you have a speedy, full recovery.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
|
|
Pud/John, where is that trail? Turn me on!
|
|
westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
|
|
Sorry to hear the bad news John
Heal up quick.
Wes
|
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
|
|
Here is where John hit the deck. Rockreation may need a rebuild. Not to mention Los Angeles.
Thanks Crimpie for the idea!
edit:....Oops, maybe it was Cragman!
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
|
|
Dave,
Hummingbird is an incredible wicked downhill. Technical switchbacks and faaaaast and long sweepers. Lot's of steep, technical sandstone too.
It's located in the foothills of Simi Valley/North San Fernando Valley.
118N Exit/park at Rocky Peak Road. Ride up the steep dirt road about a mile. You'll see the sign/bench at the trailhead.
Next time you're out this way give me a call and I'll join you on it.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
|
|
Thanks Pud I will, and thanks every one, Cosmic...dude, you rule! and Bob Bolton...you started it! Cragman, yur' pretty interesting for a Christian! I take back some of my stereotypes.
Humor makes the world go around.
John, I know you can handle it!
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John M
climber
|
|
I should have known that there would be some good humor on this thread.
I hope that you heal soon John
|
|
go-B
climber
Hebrews 1:3
|
|
Largo is making progress, here's his new wheelchair...
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
|
|
I'm really sad this happened to you, John. But I know you will recover quickly with all your physical and mental gifts intact.
-JelloDon'tBounceSoWell
|
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
|
|
Wulp, since I first met John Long out at Stoney circa 1980, I have read about him doing the impossible time and time again... and I guess he did it again. ;) Get well, soon John! :)
Lesson: don't fall, especialy if you are old!
You got that right! They don't even repair us at our age! Ain't got that much longer, not worth it! They just give us more advil and tell us to deal! lol My doc says don't worry about all that pain and stiffness, you just have an ibuprofen deficiency. haha
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Double D
climber
|
|
Largo... you keep telling me that "it ain't the shoes" but seriously you might want to reconsider your position...
Best wishes for a complete recovery and soon bro.
|
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
I remember struggling with the impossibility of tying my shoes with a broken right arm in a cast and a broken left hand in a splint at JT in 1980.The remedy came in the form of Mr. Long from a neighboring campsite;a random act of kindness i have not forgotten.Heal well old man.Perhaps you can make the best of it and exercise your considerable talent to get your literary projects done while the honing of the body is postponed.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
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Don't know if there's an election for "DA Man", but if there is I got a good idea of who is getting mine.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
|
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Mr Long, i hope you are resting easy tonight and pain free.. I accidentally looked at your picture again....double ouch.
Rich S.... You were pretty banged-up from your Joshua Tree fall.... and
You may have been able to tie your own shoes, if not for the fact.. that you
snuck out of the hospital early... I was so shocked to see you back in camp with a messed up face and body....hairball.
Hey Miss Jennie, if you Married -John Long, you would be ...
Jennie Long Long. or..Jennie Two Long...
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
Well Nita, it really wasn't a matter of sneaking out, rather it was because i was a broke dirtbag climber unable to afford the care. I remember hitchhiking into Yucca Valley for groceries with you, i remember you as a compassionate young woman with a genuinely good heart. You have not changed in that regard.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there say, john...
would like to send you a small get well gift, and card...
please, when you FEEL better, and are home...
send an email, ...
god blesss....
sorry to see how awful the leg looks, but
still very glad that nothing worse happened...
:)
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Daphne
Trad climber
Black Rock City
|
|
Sending good vibes and healing prayers for a complication-free and straightforward healing process.
|
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D.Eubanks
climber
|
|
Hope you have a speedy recovery John.
Dana
|
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
|
|
here is the slab down in malibu cyn. when u heal up join us for a slab party!
get well.
ryan
|
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
Wow, it really CAN happen to the best of us.
Sending positive vibes and hoping you heal up soon.
-The Fet
|
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
|
|
Hey, Johnny.
Probably not the drugs of first choice, but enjoy them if you can! Another example to add to the growing body of knowledge that gyms are the places where old people go to die. Zone or break bone.
Robs.
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wayne w
Trad climber
the nw
|
|
Wishing you a swift and complete recovery, John.
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|
10b4me
Boulder climber
member since 2002
|
|
FALL ON PLASTIC - DRIVEN INDOORS BY INCLEMENT WEATHER - NO HARD HAT
Hahaha!
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
largo is one of our most astute investigators of climbing accidents, and i'm eagerly awaiting his analysis of what happened. i know he's kinda encumbered by that body cast, but i'm sure he can type with his nose. meanwhile i'm rifling through JL climbing books, looking for the chapter on rugosities.
rockreation is one dangerous place. my worse climbing injury occured there while putting on my moccasims. i'm not joking about that. those shoes have a "slingshot" heel, i was eager to get started climbing that day, and as i carelessly pulled on the heel, the elastic somehow snapped the index and middle fingers of my right hand sideways. i didn't think much of it until i got on a climb which involved underclinging, and the knuckle joints of those fingers bent over the wrong way. whooooa! the (kaiser) doc said that reattachment surgery was not recommended for such "minor" injuries, so now i get to look at two bent fingers for the rest of my life.
largo has been telling people he stopped climbing three years ago. he'll never stop, and neither will i. looking forward to seeing him out there again sometime soon, as i did at rockreation just a couple weeks ago. he's always an inspiration.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
What hospital and how long is the stay?...thanks...
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|
Grampa
climber
from SoCal
|
|
Wishing you a speedy and full recovery. Al
|
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steve shea
climber
|
|
John, just saw this. Heal fast. At the age of 65, I trenched while exceeding the given velocity at my local ski area, JH. The skis stopped immediately and I kept going at about 30 deg off center. Alpine bindings do not release well in that attitude but bones do. I broke the tibia in three places and the fibula in two. Sort of lower leg puree. Pretty messy. One surgery and six months non weight bearing with a year of rehab did the trick. Other than looking at my leg, I would not know it happened. I'd say 95% healed. I went into the long, bad bivy mode. You will crush it. All the best, SS
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
I'm loopy but one thing is clear - there's a lot of love in the climbingg world, and I must be getting the bulk of it over the last few days. I am embarrassed to have raised others on this site only to have them wish me good cheer. Thanks to all, from the bottom of my heart. You are my heros.
Sincerely,
John Long
|
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
Happy to see John post. Take care.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
Yes, consciousness is always a good sign!
|
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
When I was 14, I was bouldering Pratt's Overhang on Flagstaff, and
it was dark. My spotter Larry Dalke saw me stand up onto that
highest hold and give a sigh where I knew I had made it. He
walked away, and the next thing I knew the moon was spinning around,
and I was lying flat on my back and gazing up at the stars.
That's a horrid feeling. I couldn't breathe. I wanted to
say, "Nice catch," but could only make some sort of gasping grunt.
He pushed on my chest, some totally untrained instinctual attempt
at artificial respiration, and then I got my air back, stood up,
and we started laughing. The next day, I woke up and couldn't move
my right wrist. I cracked a bone in it. They put it in a cast and
said not to climb for four weeks or more. The next day I was
in Eldorado hammering pitons with my left hand. We're pretty
resilient when we're young. An ankle is another matter, if you can't
walk. But I can imagine an overhang John could play on, with only
a wild swing in his harness, out in space... Not to climb for a few
weeks is no big deal, though, when you've done as much as John
has. People sometimes ask me why I'm not always out there on the
rock, or some such. They don't realize that decades ago I did
every climb I ever wanted to twice over. Just to walk below
the walls now is a great pleasure, to look up and remember.
We have our nostalgia. It's almost silly, though, to
say "Heal up fast, John," when we know his spirit. That's just a
given. Not much is going to slow the man down for very long. I will say,
though, that climbers have more accidents in "safe" places than in
situations of real seriousness. Huntley Ingalls stepped out the
door of the Sink one night and broke his ankle. Jim Erickson
recently broke his ankle doing something silly. Was it John Glenn
who was first to orbit the earth and then seriously hurt his
back in a fall in the bathtub?
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
|
|
This thread is useless without photos. Some portraits of the climber as a young man.
The "slanting rugosity" reference above is from John's classic story about soloing with Bachar, "The Only Blasphemy." John has published a number of versions over the years and my paraphrase of it above was from the first version in Ken Wilson's anthology, Mirrors in the Cliffs. Got this quote from a later version on the web.
He wastes no time, and scores of milling climbers freeze when he starts. He moves precisely, plugging his fingertips into shallow pockets on the 105-degree wall. I scrutinize his moves, taking mental notes on the sequence. He pauses at 50 feet, directly beneath the crux bulge. Splaying his left foot onto a slanting rugosity, he pinches a tiny rock wafer and pulls through to a gigantic bucket hold. He walks up the last 100 feet, which is only dead vertical. From the summit, Bacher flashes down a smile, awaiting my reply.
... Fifty feet passes quickly. Then, as I splay my left foot up onto the slanting rugosity, the chilling realization comes that, in my haste, I have bungled the sequence, that my hands are too low on that puny wafer that I'm pinching with waning power. My foot is vibrating and I'm desperate, wondering if and when my body will seize and plummet. A montage of black images floods my brain.
Whenever anyone tells me about wanting to solo a climb, I tell them to read this story first. It should be mandatory for any soloist or would be soloist.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
Jesus you Stonemasters were something else. Thanks for showing those of us who showed up a couple years later the method and the madness.
Oh yeah, heal up John. Speaking as one who has been busted to pieces numerous times over the last 40 years, modern medicine is the ticket! You'll be crushing in no time.
PS: If you decide you don't want your pain meds, PM me. Just sayin'.
EDIT: That Roubidoux shot is the sh#t. Great man airing it out on a great problem.
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
|
|
Good to hear from you John.Best wishes for a quick and proper healing.Positivity is about the most important part of healing so I'm sure you'll be up and at again soon enough.Positive vibes comin' from this direction.
|
|
Cole
Trad climber
los angeles
|
|
So sorry to hear this. Like Coz though, I'm very glad it wasn't something more catastrophic.
Pulled this book out this morning and read a story, boy I wish I could write like that! Heal up soon.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
|
|
Glad you liked the Rubidoux shot, Riley and BVB. Can you imagine doing that thing in red PAs?
Someone in a different thread was talking about how precise you had to be to edge with them; if you didn't place them exactly, the hard rubber would skate off in a nanosecond. Even thinking about rocking onto that big hold at the top with those red skates on your feet gives me the willies.
|
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10b4me
Boulder climber
u.s. 395
|
|
Cosmic, yer KILLING me over here dude!!!...
I agree, that pic is funnier than hell
|
|
rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
|
|
"Ho, man...We didn't have NOTHIN' like this in Borneo!"
|
|
luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
|
|
John...I hope you heal quickly and do help that along I attached videos that answer questions that I know you have been wondering about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AKvRvL5r3A
|
|
Flanders!
Trad climber
June Lake, CA
|
|
John, it is clear that MANY folks car for you and wishing you will. This bumps in the road of our lives, let us know just how many people admire you.
All the best to you and family as you mend.
|
|
Scott McNamara
climber
Tucson, Arizona
|
|
Heal and recover, John.
Teach us how to do it.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
We all want the best for Largo. Not a question.
Do we all want the best for ourselves?
If we do we might consider the possibility older bone breaks easily.
And once broken they heal less and less perfectly.
Listen to Darwin.
Once past the age one is reproducing. nature has already crossed you off her list.
|
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
Jstan, didn't Picasso father a child when he was in his 80's?
It's not the years, babe. It's the mileage.
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Man, this really sucks.
Heal up quick Largo!
Rob
|
|
BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
|
|
JL,
Your life of climbing and writing has been an inspiration to all of us in the climbing community.
Wishing you a good and full recovery.
Heal up fast and well my friend.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
I'd like to welcome Largo to the gimp-honored tradition of posting too much on Supertopo while injured.
I know you can't start quite yet but the curve of your posting frequency could be the trajectory of your recovery, increasing as you get out of trauma mode and decreasing as you get back on your feet again. Perhaps a perfect opportunity for a writing a work of literature.
My suggestion:
Larger than life tales from back in the Day
You know, stuff like that guy dating a curry chick whose mom was a curry executive but was forced to take a dump on her carpet on a newspaper just as her mom got home. Climbing stories too, as only you can tell them
Folks would love it, and it'd be more fun to write than a gear book. You can collect some whoppers from your friends and on supertopo as well so only the cream of the sh#t gets published
Wishing you magic
peace
Karl
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Largo will not be posting any stupid nonsense here anytime soon.
You will not see him here at all.
He will go into deep transcendental state free from all duality.
He will float into the no thing (where ever that is) and disappear until fully healed.
Then he will awaken to expound stuff to us trapped in the "thing" world ( whatever the fuk that is).
Ho man ........
Quack
|
|
Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
|
|
Werner-^^That is priceless!!^^
|
|
Michelle
Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
|
|
Holy crap, is that an airplane crash fatty hanging out of his mouth in that first pic?
|
|
rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
|
|
Do we all want the best for ourselves? If we do we might consider the possibility older bone breaks easily. And once broken they heal less and less perfectly. Listen to Darwin.
Being, as some of us are, past the age of reproduction (which is to say, given recent research, that reproduction may be possible but not advisable), we are also out of the range of natural selection. Those of us who have been fertile have already set our progeny in motion, hence our contribution to the survival or elimination of the species has already been made.
Our communal propensity to shred tendons, bones, and soft tissue, presently so ably represented by our friend Largo (may he recover fully and quickly), suggests we may have done the species little good, although we can always hope the genes that continually land us in the operating room have either not been passed on or else have mutated into something more socially and societally beneficial and less suited to depleting the remaining tatters of the medicaid budget.
All this means that we and our brittling bones are free from future Darwinian constraints, and can replace the potentially consequential reckless abandon of our youthful adventures with the inconsequential reckless abandon of old age, realizing, of course, that diminished capacities will challenge us to extract catastrophes from ever more mundane circumstances.
And so I say, pay Darwin no heed. Ex (cough, cough) celsior!
|
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Dick Erb
climber
June Lake, CA
|
|
Hey John, hang in there. You've got a long road ahead. I've been on it over nine months now. It's not all bad and it gets better.
Thank you so much for all the inspired writing you have done. Even as you lie there doped up in bed you are inspiring people. Here's a paragraph of yours I love.
I first went to Yosemite Valley when I was seventeen years old, and continued to spend every summer there until I was twenty-five. The first thing I remember of the place was the Camp 4 parking lot, an oily acre crammed with the proudest medley of rust buckets imaginable. Among the really prime rigs was an ancient British step van that must have been parked on the street during the blitzkrieg; an old, dented, salt-pocked Cadillac, now a convertible thanks to a cutting torch; and a red VW van, broadsided, t-boned, rear- ended, and rolled, not a window in it, vice grips where the steering wheel should have been. Few of these ran without priming and a push start. There wasn't a treaded tire in the whole lot, and a live battery got passed back and forth like a gold brick. The license plates were from Canada, Colorado, California, New York -- most of these junkers having been babied down the road with little chance of ever reaching Yosemite, and no chance of ever leaving it.
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|
ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
|
|
John,
Did you not use at least three equalized and bomber pieces? A couple of extra SLCD's or nuts just may have been prudent, yeah?
Heal up friend and use it to get real fit; take it to a new level and give us a real comeback!
Arne
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
Heal it up right John.
|
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CalicoJack
climber
CA
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Best wishes from one of the many who have never met you, but have benefited greatly from your words. Hope the path to a full recovery is fast!
Andy
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
OR
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John, Ouch sympathies go to you reluctantly as it seems unbelievable what happened. Did the spotters fan out as usual? Pathetic! Nevertheless, this convalescence period will be a good time to practice your knots.
What is with all the demands for new copy but no mention of bucks? Don't waste your time writing. Your fans are never satisfied. And what would you write, "Diary of a mad Unicyclist?" "Will loan you a metolius hangboard that could mount over your bed. ooops you already have one! December=training! Speaking of training, I'd like to invite all the staff nurses to room Largo for a pajama party. Turn up the music and Heal Well, Friend! - Bruce
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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So for the time being he'll be a uniped on a unicycle?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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What's unique to this thread, unlike a million other accident threads of ST, is that we have no real information on what happened so we can't go on saying what should have happened in hindsight, and blame various acts or people for the incident, only to be found wrong when the actual details some out.
Very sly, having this all so secret. I mean gyms are supposed to be idiot proof, but since we're confident Largo is not an Idiot, apparently the safety measure weren't designed to protect him
;-)
karl
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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He outsmarted the safety measures.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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It was the rugosity. They'll get ya every time.
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Gene
climber
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The old honed Stonemaster John Largo
Slipped on plastic but didn’t very far go
Whilst pulling a wafer so mightily
with foot splayed wide on a rugosity
Ho Man! Does that ever hurt so.
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MH2
climber
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Good advice:
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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I'm loopy but one thing is clear - there's a lot of love in the climbingg world, and I must be getting the bulk of it over the last few days. I am embarrassed to have raised others on this site only to have them wish me good cheer. Thanks to all, from the bottom of my heart. You are my heros.
Hey Largo,
When I broke my ankle up at Suicide in 1985, I'm sure glad you were there to help me out. If there's anything I can do to reciprocate, please let me know. At least that explains why I didn't see you out at Josh this weekend... Hope you heal up fast.
Curt
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BillL
Trad climber
NM
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Even if the fight is still "on" with that leg, people are incredibly resilient and John has many decades of experience with living.
...uh... with all due respect and more. ;-)
Bill
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Park Rat
Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
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Dear John,
Dare I say that we all pine for you, no we long for you. We need to hear the your dear sweet voice. You are our master of the stone, our Sage, our guide to all the thrilling adventures of a misspent youth.
Hearing of your mighty fall, we can only say NO, say it ain't so. Not our pillar of stone, you who are one of the gods, the leader cannot fall, no never.
We mere mortals may fall, but not our dear John, we are so sad to know that you to may be only flesh and blood and not made of mighty granite.
We long to know that you will soon rise again, you are our master of stone, the keeper of our words, the hero of our youth, long may you reign.
So dear John we do long to hear from you.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Better than a John Deere letter.
Hardy har har. :)
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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back when he had two legs to stand on, ;)
John, heal up fast and learn to love the pain meds when they are needed most.
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R.H
climber
las vegas
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Wishing you a speedy and painless recovery!
From Richard, Tina, & Lisa Harrison
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shady
Trad climber
|
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Dude, wait till you get some of those pity sticks under your arms. They're better than a half dozen puppys when women are around. Big, handsome and vulnerable goes a long way.
Milk it for all it's worth.
Heal fast, but not too fast.
P.S. Calcium and vitamin D. Good for dem bones.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
|
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b e s, John has a broken ankle, it would seem that you have, a brain injury, take your meds.
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covelocos
Trad climber
Nor Cal
|
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Good to know he was adhering to the "Safety third" rule.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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the one time i was at that gym i met largo working out there. dude, i hope you heal up ok, you are a hero to a lot of us. ss
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splitter
Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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I added my 2 cents to it and then re-posted this post that "Blueblocr" posted a couple weeks ago on the "religion" thread, but I thought it would also be relevant here. Probably what everyone already knows, but worth repeating...
Largo,
Your grace with the use of words is inspiring! I think it is great how you can elaborate so much on just one term. I can definitely read in your pens soul as being thoughtful, humble, patient, positive, provoking, mature and loving! Thank You! I can't wait for you to come over to the Lords side, You are surely to become a 21st-Century David!
Jus Thank'in!
BB
Very well said, and so true!
JL has always been that way. I haven't crossed paths with him since around '89/'90, but ever since I first met him at JT in the early 70's, he has always been the same.
This one afternoon I was having a difficult time on this popular boulder problem which was located near the entrance to Hidden Valley campground. It was the first time I had tried it, and after a half hour or so of flailing on it, I was about to give up. Suddenly Largo arrives with a couple of friends and he jumps out of the car and runs over and sends it in his tennis. Frustrated at how easy he made it look and by what little progress I had made on it, I give it one last all out effort. But I decide to try and mantle the crux crimp move, since I had zero success the obvious way. Somehow I pulled off the mantle, but that was as far as I got. I fell back to the ground, feeling pretty discouraged with myself.
But Largo changed all that in one sentence, "Wow, you just mantled that crimp, I've never seen anyone do that before, I know I couldn't!" And then off he went to rejoin his friends. I don't recall if I ever did get that boulder problem, but I never forgot those words of inspiration. They lifted me up and made me feel like I had just won the lottery or something. Like I was actually someone, not just a flailing n00b!
That was my first encounter with him, and it is just one example of what I came to recognize over the next few years as his everyday, honest and good natured self. Not so preoccupied with his own ego or reputation that he wasn't willing to lift someone else up at his own expense. I never forgot that first encounter, because it meant a way to much for me at the time to ever forget.
Thanks John, and please get well soon! Because there are a whole lot of noobs out here, young and old, that appreciate your presence a lot more than you will probably ever know!
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Savannagirl
Mountain climber
Venice, ca
|
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You decked. so what? Sh#t happens. You were thinking about something else. This is not great, but it does happen. At least you were thinking . xxoo
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Savannagirl
Mountain climber
Venice, ca
|
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OLD guy? may your tongue shrivel into ribbons. John Long is a young guy And awesome.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Update on John???
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meLoco
climber
Las Vegas,Nevada
|
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They say you can't keep a good man down. Here's hoping for a full recovery!
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dave yerian
Trad climber
the parking lot
|
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Care about you, John. Let me know if I can help out at all.
Best Wishes, Dave Yerian
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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I'm late to the game, but of course do want to wish you the best in as easy and smooth a rehab as possible. Very glad that the injury, bad as it is, is not as bad as it could have been.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
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Heal up fast, JL. My best wishes are with you!
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o-man
Social climber
Paia,Maui,HI
|
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Thanks for all your stoke and inspiration John.
Heal swiftly,
Olaf
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
Klaus you are pitiably misinformed about the cost of US health care. I had my right knee replaced and in so doing was in hospital for two nights (2.5 days). Nothing special happened other than the installation of a titanium-and-nylon prosthetic and the immediate activities in recovery. The total bill was $168,000. Johno's bill will be spectacular. It will be higher than mine by quite a bit and will come in, measurable in pounds of paper.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
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Klaus works in the health care industry right? Those guys can never tell you what anything costs. You don't even know the ace bandage you're applying cost $40 right?
but then again, he's not known for his bedside manner unless he's getting in the bed too
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
|
|
First time I met John was one night around 73 in camp 4. A group of us were messing around on some problems and John came up and challenged us to a tennis shoe bouldering contest, which he promptly won. Heal quick Largo.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
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$168,000.
Sheeit! Did they give you a guarantee?
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Gimp
Trad climber
Grand Junction
|
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Would not downplay this injury. Based the pattern of the fixator in the photo and what appears to be a Wound VAC hose coming from the medial side of the distal third of the tibia I would suspect this is an open (IIIB) pilon fracture of the tibia. Don't believe Kelly Cordes had an open component but you may want to look at his blog for the long rode to recovery from this type of injury even when it was closed.
As a long time weekender who has read many of his books and stores I am wishing John the best in his recovery.
Steve
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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Of course they gave him a guarantee.
It was the "light speed" guarantee; in a single second he could be $168K poorer!
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
|
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Can I have your external fixators John. I'm making some wind chimes and need a few more to add to mine.
Heal quick bro!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
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Didn't Kauk bust his tibia in a MC crash a while back and he's ok?
This summer, Ron told me his leg has never been the same since the crash. There's no such thing as an okay broken bone that you come back from 100%. Always something a little funky afterwards.
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Nick
climber
portland, Oregon
|
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Could happen to anyone. Heal quick Largo!
Most health insurance policies have an "out of pocket" cap on payments. Somewhere in the $5000-10,000 range. This type of event, even to a master, is exactly why we need universal coverage. I almost started a health care rant, but this is not the time or place. Feel better John.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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The early to mid 50s seems to be a perilous time for some climbers. I ripped my right biceps off the forearm at age 50 and was out for a year (gave up bouldering); Bachar, Whillans, Edlinger and others came to tragic ends, and D'Antonio suffered a heart attack. I'm sure there are other such stories. And now JL has come to grief. I hope his pain (physical and financial) is not too great. And, yes, someone please verify the validity of the fund raising site - I recently encountered the FBI-Moneypak virus, and, boy, did that announcement look official.
;>|
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
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Thanks for all the support. I'l make it through this.
Any "fund" was done without my knowledge and while no doubt well-intended is not the way to go. Nobody just gives money to a slush pot for people to spend on hot rods and lap dances or whatever.
Such a plan if needed will be way later. But I appreciate the thought.
Great to have friends.
JL
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
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Thanks for all the support. I'l make it through this.
Any "fund" was done without my knowledge and while no doubt well-intended is not the way to go. Nobody just gives money to a slush pot for people to spend on hot rods and lap dances or whatever.
Such a plan if needed will be way later. But I appreciate the thought.
Great to have friends.
JL
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
|
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Glad to see that you are well enough to post John.
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Park Rat
Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
|
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Hi John,
I'm so glad to see you posting, we're all pulling for you we know it's going to be a long haul, but you can count on a lot of support from this group.
All the best,
Susie
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
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Hey John,
Glad you're coming round.
So what are your injuries? And how did it happen?
We can't figure out how you decked in the gym, and we're tired of all of Riley's inferences. [well meaning though you are, Riley, it would be nice to know the facts]
How 'bout we hear it from the horse's mouth? How bout it, John?
Cheers,
Pete
Big Wall Parvenu
Bimollalular tib-fib fracture survivor with tons of screws and plates and shit
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
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Ha ha! The phuck philter missed my sh#t above!
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
|
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Classy response largo--- heal up
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jogill
climber
Colorado
|
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When JB and JL came down to southern Colorado to visit me in the late 1970s and sat around the kitchen table, my wife later remarked "They were like young Greek Gods!"
Draw on that power, JL!
;>)
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
|
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Nobody just gives money to a slush pot for people to spend on hot rods and lap dances or whatever.
So maybe that is still the meds talking but it seems that JL is saying something like "If I won the Lottery, the first things I'd spend it on..." hahahah
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
|
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So maybe that is still the meds talking but it seems that JL is saying something like "If I won the Lottery, the first things I'd spend it on..." hahahah
Besides, what's wrong with hot rods or lap dances?
Curt
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Brian
climber
California
|
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John,
I've been getting updates through Erin and others. Hope things continues to improve as fast as possible and as well as possible given the circumstances. Be sure to reach out if there is anything folks can do. Not sure if I should text you or email or what, as I'm not sure what you've got access to. Let me know if I can bring anything over (books, company, whatever).
Hope Dean's "Largofest" fundraiser happens anyway. Great excuse for a party. If you need the funds for bills, I'm sure legions would be willing to chip in; and if you don't, well, it's a good reason for a party when you are out of the hospital and on the mend.
Brian
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McP223
climber
|
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Dear fellow climbers. John Long requested that we make a brief statement regarding his accident that occurred on 11/29/12 at approximately 8:30pm. John wanted us to confirm that he fell due to an unfinished knot, and suffered a compound fracture to the lower left leg. The rest of the details of the accident are John’s to tell.
Here is a direct quote from John, “Thank you to the Rockreation staff and members for keeping it together and not panicking in the face of a very scary situation. I consider it my best moment when I saw the gravity of the situation and was somehow able to keep it together and receive the support of the Rockreation Staff.”
On behalf of the Rockreation community, we want to wish our friend a speedy recovery, and let him know that we love him and are sending him good energy.
Here is a link to his full statement:
https://www.facebook.com/RockreationLA
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covelocos
Trad climber
Nor Cal
|
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Smoke pot, check yer knot...
edit... both.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
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John wanted us to confirm that he fell due to an unfinished knot, and suffered a compound fracture to the lower left leg.
We might have to revoke his double-knott spy status
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MWq6L19eNo
Heal up bro, it happens, or almost happens to everybody
I led the crux pitch on the Good Book once, and the pitch afterwards without my harness doubled back. It started getting loose when I was underclinging that big flake and looked down to see .....
Peace
Karl
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vininja
Social climber
NJ
|
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Dec 10, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
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https://www.facebook.com/RockreationLA
Dear fellow climbers. John Long requested that we make a brief statement regarding his accident that occurred on 11/29/12 at approximately 8:30pm. John wanted us to confirm that he fell due to an unfinished knot, and suffered a compound fracture to the lower left leg. The rest of the details of the accident are John’s to tell.
Here is a direct quote from John, “Thank you to the Rockreation staff
and members for keeping it together and not panicking in the face of a very scary situation. I consider it my best moment when I saw the gravity of the situation and was somehow able to keep it together and receive the support of the Rockreation Staff.”
https://www.facebook.com/RockreationLA
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
|
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Dec 10, 2012 - 07:01pm PT
|
A case of "do as I say, not as I do"?
Happens to the best of us...
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
|
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Dec 10, 2012 - 07:11pm PT
|
I did that once at Josh.
I led "Sandbag" 10c (Real Hidden Valley)and got on top, sat down to belay Margy and noticed my knot in an unfinished state.
I was glad I made it!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
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Dec 10, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
|
My close calls, bonehead manuevers, n00b-worthy clusterf*#ks, and profound errors in judgement are far too numerous to list. I've been fortunate to rack up no more than five or six months in the hospital over last 40 years due to climbing-related accidents. This does not include the four months I spent in a cast (1975) due to an ankle smasher I scored at Tahquitz in January.
There but by the grace, as they say.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
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Dec 10, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
|
Another reminder that even the best of us can make mistakes.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 12:10am PT
|
I've done it too, not finishing the knot that is. Luckily I got away with it. Noticed it when I was clipping the first bolt on London Calling in Josh. By then you have a piece or two of gear in and you're setting up for the crux. As I pulled rope to clip the bolt I happened to look down and saw the unfinished knot. I held the crimp with one hand, finished the knot with the other, pulled the crux without thinking and then bailed and went hiking for the rest of the day. The fall would only have been fatal in a fluke, but serious injury on that rocky landing was assured. Lucky me.
Largo, Hoh Man!! Heal up well. How is the food there? You need good food. Reach out if it sucks, maybe we can put together something...
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covelocos
Trad climber
Nor Cal
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 12:10am PT
|
Oh, how the mighty have fallen...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 12:15am PT
|
I decked from the last clip up under the roof at Solid Rock San Marcos. Went for the full on rope-in-mouth-double-grab-lunge-oh-shit and landed flat ass on my back.
Luckily I was 19 at the time, and bouncy. Those annoying as f*#k pebbles they have there really do disperse energy.
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Jim Pettigrew
Social climber
Crowley Lake, CA
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 12:30am PT
|
Get well John!
Compound fracture? Yikes!
Get well my friend!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:00am PT
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Forget about unfinished knot, I left the ground without any knot, the rope just draped through my swami belt. Fortunately, the rope slipped away before I had any occasion to weight it. Unfortunately, I had to solo the rest of the route. Fortunately, I was able to do that.
I started leaning back on an anchor and realized, in the nick of time, that I wasn't clipped to it.
I once slipped on a pebble near the edge of No Escape Buttress on Mt. Moran and ended up on the edge with one leg hanging over.
On an extremely run-out climb, I arrived at easier ground although with a groundfall prospect. There was protection available, but the terrain was easy and I so no reason to bother, considering what I had just managed. But then at the last minute I decided to place a piece anyway. I took a step up from there, a foothold broke, and I fell two feet onto the piece I almost hadn't placed.
That's four death/dismemberment/paraplegia episodes avoided by dumb luck in going on 56 years, or an average of one every fourteen years. I've never repeated any of those dumb mistakes, which qualifies me for the title of "very experienced." Ha! I prefer that honorific to the rather less dignified "very lucky."
Climbing can be reasonably safe as long as you manage to pay attention to all the details. However, gravity never sleeps, and most of us do nod off from time to time.
Be careful, don't ever get into the superior frame of mind that it can't happen to you, and help out if you can when a comrade falls, remembering that it might well have been you.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:46am PT
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Hey Miss Jennie, if you Married -John Long, you would be ...
Jennie Long Long. or..Jennie Two Long...
Jennie Two Long might have more euphony with my wee bit of Indian Ancestry, Nita… ha-ha-ha.
Sorry I didn’t see your post until now. I don’t think Largo and I are related…I think all Longs descendent via Great Britain are posterity of a Norman knight named John DeLong who came with William the Conqueror in the eleventh century.
I read somewhere than John’s ancestry was primarily from Ireland, though.
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sac
Trad climber
Sun Coast B.C.
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:56am PT
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Just asked my wife...
"Hey, do you know who John Long is?"
She says:
"Porn Star??"
Pause...
"Oh, the guy who wrote those climbing books?"
Positive energy to you Largo.
From us.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 11:21am PT
|
probably worth while to take the "unfinished knot" topic to another thread... eh?
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BruceAnderson
Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
|
I used to work at Rockreation and I recall Largo was always getting busted for tying in with a bowline. Wonder what knot he was using at the time?
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WBraun
climber
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
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I recall Largo was always getting busted for tying in with a bowline.
WTF man.
I've used the bowline to tie in for over 30 years.
I'd tell that Jim Jones owner he's a stupid American ..... :-)
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BruceAnderson
Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:12pm PT
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For the record I have no problem with the bowline (when it's finished and backed up) and I sure as hell never told John what he should or should not tie in with. Obviously if you were distracted (by a pretty girl or a moment of deep insight for instance) you could forget to finish any knot....but....is it easier to unfinish a bowline?
Regardless- John I hope you get the best care possilble and heal back stronger than ever,
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
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I guess "unfinished" could mean 2 things:
1) The knot was not fully tied. It was an incomplete knot.
2) The last few inches of the rope were not terminated to a fisherman's knot or similar. This is probably more important for a bowline than a figure 8.
I was assuming 1) was the case here, though I could see a "loose" bowline that was "unfinished" causing a problem as well.
I use bowline for single pitch sport, basically so I can untie after repeated falls. I use a figure 8 for multipitch climbing, where I don't want the knot coming loose over time. Most of my partners do the same.
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Manjusri
climber
|
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Dec 11, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
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I prefer the bowline tie-in to the eight for most climbing, but I've noticed a tendency for bowline users (myself included) to pull the line through the harness while chatting pre-climb and not tie the knot immediately. I don't see this as often with figure eights, perhaps because the pass through the harness occurs in between the tying of the two eights and stopping feels like more of an interruption. Once through the harness it's easy to think you are tied in.
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
|
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Dec 12, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
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Sorry, to hear about your predicament, Largo. I try never to interrupt someone who is tying in. And typically check the climber I am belaying before they leave the ground.
Once you get the bill from the hospital, even with insurance, its going to be pricey.
I think this is a good reason for the annual bash at Todd Gordons; Todd willing. If not for a fundraiser but a celebration of us all making it this far.
I too have found myself at the top of a climb, leaning back to be lowered only to find my knot was only stuffed though my harness not even tied. Some lessons are cheaper than others!
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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
|
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Dec 12, 2012 - 08:22pm PT
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I guess "unfinished" could mean 2 things:
But, for crying out loud, WHY ARE WE GUESSING?!
The conveyance of "information" via the Net is so
damn fast when unweighted by care in checking facts ... .
Already, there is another "bowline came untied" article fueling
lines of R&I, no doubt building some preponderance of evidence
after the fatal UK case, about which RGold & I tried to point
out that certain key bits of information --i.p., whether in fact
any actual >>knot<< was tied-- were unknown.
HERE, we have connection to the (thankfully, surviving) user;
how about actual-factual details,
vs. the usual this-appears-to-support-my-agenda spewing?
*kN*
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
|
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Dec 12, 2012 - 08:40pm PT
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so John pulled a "lynn hill" accident. lynn hill famously wrote about her accicent on buffet froid at buoux, another unfinished knot. i've seen the results in a gym first hand, women lowering from forty five feet up, and at 30 feet the knot pulls through and she decks on the peat gravel. nothing broken, but bruised along the entire side on her body.
I teach, practice, and preach that knot tying should be a ritual where we disregard distractions and tie our knot from start to finish. get out the candles and incense here. do it from start to finish, every time, or untie your knot completely and deal with the distractions before tying the knot. ss
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 13, 2012 - 01:20am PT
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i've been ready to rap, only to notice that I only have one strand of cord through the atc. have been fortunate to correct that
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 13, 2012 - 01:39am PT
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If climbers had any brains they would adopt aviation protocols -
maintain a sterile cockpit during critical flight phases and
USE THE f-ING CHECKLIST!
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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
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Dec 13, 2012 - 01:05pm PT
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so John pulled a "lynn hill" accident.
I don't think that was lost on many of us, but it bears note.
Rather, THAT detail remains unstated by either Largo or his agents.
"unfinished knot" is an awkward (or "political'? :-) way to say "untied".
A fig.8 eyeknot with the tail only taken the first step into re-weaving
is unfinished (and might hold some forces); a bowline doesn't offer
such a half-way stage, really.
And, as noted, the Rock&Ice statement has it that a bowline came untied
--which requires starting out *tied*.
Why are the facts so hard to get,
and so easily lived without?
*kN*
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Dec 13, 2012 - 01:08pm PT
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Long says that he ties in with a double bowline, but this time, distracted and tired after a long day of work, he didn't finish the knot. "I made the two bowline loops," he says, "and threaded the rope through my harness, but I didn't bring the rabbit out of the hole and around the tree."
Adds Long: "A lot of people are down on the bowline, but the same thing would have happened with a trace-8. I just wasn't paying attention."
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 13, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
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John long is the consummate teacher who shows us the actual real world example of what happens when we do it not the way we're supposed to.
Not some sterile book writing, but the real thing, live and in person.
Ho man ....... :-)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 13, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
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probably worth while to take the "unfinished knot" topic to another thread... eh?
Why?
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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
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Dec 14, 2012 - 12:02am PT
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Long says that he ties in with a double bowline,
but this time, distracted and tired after a long day of work,
he didn't finish the knot. "I made the two bowline loops,"
he says, "and threaded the rope through my harness,
but I didn't bring the rabbit out of the hole and around the tree."
Adds Long: "A lot of people are down on the bowline,
but the same thing would have happened with a trace-8.
I just wasn't paying attention."
I'm quoting a quote above; and that quote comes from ... ?
Well, this seems to shoot a hole in the already-multiply-cited
R&Ice assertions about the cause,
but it's an odd-sounding story, IMO : making the double turns
and THEN reeving the line
--presumably one's holding these
don't-stay-formed-by-themselves-turns in one hand and,
so, having to reeve single-handedly (a plus to the bowline is,
after all, that one can form the entire knot AFTER making its eye)--
and then somehow letting loose of the first-formed part,
which is a sort of positive act, rather than the omission of one!?
Or did the *rabbit* make it around to poke its head out
of the double hole, AND THEN ... <distraction>?! At this
point, the corresponding fig.8 has just hope of an advantage,
as would a "water bowline" (that clove-hitch-based variant),
given enough tail pulled through.
*kN*
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 14, 2012 - 12:15am PT
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I teach, practice, and preach that knot tying should be a ritual where we disregard distractions and tie our knot from start to finish. get out the candles and incense here. do it from start to finish, every time, or untie your knot completely and deal with the distractions before tying the knot. ss
How many times do ppl have to deck before people learn that they will potentially die, that this becomes a 'religious ceremony' before they climb.
Check your knot before you launch!!!! And yer f*#king harness straps! F*#k!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 14, 2012 - 01:47am PT
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'Unfinished knot' scenario accidents have nothing whatsoever to do with figure eight vs. bowline.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 01:48am PT
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When your number is up, no matter how many times one checks or how diligent one is to protect themselves .....
Your number is up .......
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:00am PT
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http://www.rockandice.com/news/2402-john-long-accident-update
Yes, well-known climbers sometimes make elementary mistakes, such as not tieing properly, or getting lowered off the end of the rope. Such as Scottish climber Dave MacLeod.
It turned out, the 6b+ slab was quite long and the rope I was using which wasn’t mine was a little short. As I got lowered off, the rope ran out about 6-8 feet above the small ledge at the start of the route proper. Neither of us noticed in time and so I plummeted, clipping the ledge with my foot and somersaulting down the turfy scrambling ground below, eventually coming to a violent stop wrapped around a birch tree on the slope below.
As I was flying head over heels I was wondering what the hell was going on! Normally I always take a long rope to the crag so rope length issues don’t arise and it hit me that the borrowed rope I was using must’ve been too short and the end had gone through the belay device. For a minute or two I thought I might have got away with it but very quickly my right foot started to get bigger and severely object to being weighted.
http://davemacleod.blogspot.ca/2012/10/end-of-line-for-short-while.html
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:27am PT
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John is a storyteller and will tell this tale too, in his own time. There's a lot still ahead of him to say how it "ends."
As others have said, we've just about all made equally dumb mistakes, with luckier outcomes or not. I sure have. Best wishes to John!
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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:39am PT
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(A) For the record I used the bowline for years,
(B) had it come undone twice and
(C) know three people personally who have suffered the fate of Largo. By A, do you mean the simple/basic/"common" bowline,
without any extension for security? --so, not a double bowline, water bowline, b. _+ half-hitches or strangle knot ("half a grapevine/DFish"), or "Yosemite finish"
And re B, this was something you noticed --ACK!-- while on the sharp end, climbing? Did you then re-tie the same knot, or do something further/different?
For C, this point has been what was so unclear (and even the latest explanation sounds a little peculiar) : at this point, the general claim is that >>no knot was tied<<, and not that condition "A" obtained for Largo. So, are you saying that intended bowlines were somehow left undone (how?) or that maybe there was a case of a fig.8 eyeknot left undone (as with you)?
- - - - - - - -
For the gym climbing, I can see that adopting a procedure --i.e., actual physical movements-- of always beginning by the climber sitting back into the line so to both check that her knot is tied (and inspect on doing) AND that the belayer is set would be good to establish, though with so much line out, it might take some walking back away from the wall.
*kN*
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Dec 15, 2012 - 12:35am PT
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I was at city rock just about to start the crux of a 5.12 that I was probably going to fall on but the rope was dragging on a hold; so I start flipping the rope to get it away from the hold and the rope flys off my harness because I didn't finish the knot. Now I always pull on the knot before I start and pull on the knot before I lean back to be lowered.
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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
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Dec 17, 2012 - 01:26am PT
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Kudos to Healyje for hitting the nail on the head,
here : http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/Not-the-Knot.html
Adam, that was a complete botch job. The accident had nothing whatsoever to do with the type of knot and you as the author take away all the wrong lessons. Further, you arrive at the same wrong conclusions from the fatal accident in England. Duane then pipes in with uninformed personal bias and all to what end? Not Outside's best effort.
Elsewhere, I also noted that, in the zeal to blame the knot, those authors skipped the chance to make the important lesson about taking precautions.
I also wish that someone in the UK would make a complaint about the coroner who came to the unfounded conclusion about the Rothman death. As an official report, that should be circumspect, not speculative.
*kN*
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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
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Dec 17, 2012 - 02:08am PT
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The Bowline I used was a double with a follow through back up and then a finishing knot.
Let me understand this : by "double", is that the "2 rabbit holes" version often given the name and featured in the Outside article? (as opposed to two eyes, sometimes getting the name)
And the "follow through back up", hmmm, something akin the the "Yosemite finish"? (as opposed to what Healyje has advocated, making a 2nd eye through the harness from a dbl.bowline base, reeving the tail through the knot and tying off with a strangle knot to the main line)
And the finishing knot? --the simple overhand is often shown in instructions, but that doesn't garner much faith at security IMO!
With all that in still came untied twice. Mind you I climbed 200-300 days a year from age 14 to 38, so that's a lot of knot tying.
Thanks for the history.
But twice out of all this time is --yes, twice too much had you fallen-- enough to make one wonder Why...? And to think that over two dozen years of continual climbing it would seem one heckuva *test* of the tie-in, between those failures : who'd think "nah, still not sure about dis knot!" with all that?! (unless one had seen it loosening, more often, though staying tied)
That IS a lot of knot tying; and a lot of knot not-untying.
What sort of duration was on the untyings? --in a single pitch?
Now I rig for a living working close to the same amount of days. So, basically I've tied and used knots more than most people as I'm now 49.
And have no doubt seen difference >>per material<<.
The figure 8, just gets tighter and tighter when weighted, making it impossible to untie after a big load.
There might be ways to redress the over-tightening of a fig.8 --i.e., to use the fig.8 base and then finish it differently. (And, for that matter, there is a symmetric version of the "fig.9" which should give similar security without the over-tightening (though I've seen it jam in HMPE, but that material is of another world!). This an unfamiliar knot and a little more complicated; it has the shared benefit to the fig.8, though, of also being tiable in the bight (i.e., no ends).)
Seems to me the figure 8 is the best knot to tie in with period, that is just plan fact. There's more than has met the eye re contenders, as just noted.
I feel that using the wrong knot for the wrong job is a quick way to have a problem.
Not to come off too argumentative, but your long history at least didn't come to a "quick" problem, as noted above! (And there will be those others who claim "never failed". But even infrequent untyings are rightly disturbing. Hmmmm ... .)
Thanks,
*kN*
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Dec 17, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
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The figure 8, just gets tighter and tighter when weighted, making it impossible to untie after a big load.
there's a secret to loosening up a weighted figure-8. slip one of the outer loops. it's easy to do, no matter how tight the knot has gotten--just bend the loop, slip it by pivoting it, and then you'll be able to force the tail back out quite easily--and the knot is untied.
the best reason for tying a figure 8, i think, is that it has a built-in mental insurance you don't get with the bowline. the knot is easy to master, and there's a pleasing, familiar "balance" to it when it's done properly. this becomes a real safety habit over time, especially when you're tying in hundreds of times a year.
i knew this thread would devolve into a technical discussion like this.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 17, 2012 - 12:28pm PT
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A numer of knots will work if properly tied. The figure 8 is my choice....elegant, easy to tie and hard to get wrong.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 17, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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Both times the my bowline came untied was on the North Overhang on Intersection. Go figure.
Must the the weird vibes there. The scene of countless, sun-going-down, can't hear your partner screaming (but the campground can) epics
Peace
karl
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Dec 17, 2012 - 02:16pm PT
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I have become a big believer in having my partner check my harness and knots every single time. It takes only a moment and shows that we are paying attention to each other. Before I lower off, I glance at my knot to double check it.
Generally I prefer the figure 8 for tying in because it is easier to quickly see whether it is tied correctly or not. A bowline requires closer inspection to see whether it is correct and it is much easier to tie incorrectly. A bowline tied incorrectly can fail completely, while a figure 8 tied incorrectly just tends to be somewhat less secure.
That said, I use bowlines a lot and really like them. If I really need a secure knot, I use a bowline follow through. It cannot come undone and is still easy to untie after many falls. There are probably a number of variations of bowlines that are very secure, but they require a bit more experience to tie and people have enough trouble tying figure 8s.
Coz states that bowlines have failed on him a few times in his long career. I wonder if the knot itself was to blame, then the failure rate would be higher, but...from a practical view, I don't think it matters. If Coz with his experience, miss tied the knot a few times in 40 years, then that is just as big a problem as if the knot failed when correctly tied.
To be fair, we should try to compare real world failure rates across different tie in methods.
As climbers we usually have another person nearby who can double check our knots. We should appreciate that and take advantage of it.
edit: bowlines rubbing, catching against the rock?... yeah, I can see how that might create more problems for a normal bowline than for a figure 8.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 17, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
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I have used bowlines for thirty eight years of climbing and never once had one 'come loose', ever.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Dec 17, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
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@Coz: So,just to be clear, you had a fisherman's finish/backup AND the bowline itself come untied? You have huge experience, and I have no reason to doubt you, but is that the combo you're talking about? When I used to use a (double) bowline, I always finished with the fisherman's. I can't imagine any scenario in which everything comes untied.
BAd
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Dec 17, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
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professional riggers always have something extra to say about this stuff.
when i was on the SCMA board, a fellow board member, jim matthews, whom you might know, coz, since he worked for years rigging in hollywood and teaching stage management, got on our case about the clove hitch. the dear clove hitch, the quick, handy, fail-safe tie-in knot, no? not for jim's money. he'd seen it fail, he said, and we argued endlessly whether to be teaching this in our safety course.
ironically, i cornered largo about the matter one day at rockreation. he tied a couple of quick clove hitches to demonstrate how handy and fail-safe it was for a belay tie-in. "what's wrong with that?" he asked. i couldn't have agreed more.
but in guide training they fussed about dressing it properly. i also heard pro guides differ over whether the bowline ought to be backed up. i also discovered that my midwestern sailor way of tying a bowline--two opposing loops for a non-slip bow line for a boat--wasn't acceptable for a climber's loaded bowline. you live and learn.
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BruceAnderson
Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
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Dec 17, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
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I love the clove hitch ( can you tie it one handed? ), but in my guides training I was taught always load bearing strand against the spine and back it up wth an overhand on a bight.
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Dec 17, 2012 - 06:19pm PT
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Enough lnot talk.
Largo;
Make sure you get a pair of MobiLeg crutches.. they are really good, no nerve damage, spring loaded etc..
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 17, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
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"Indulge in the kindness of others for a while and be good to yourself while you heal. :-)"
Thanks for that line. I'm learning that such indulging is the highest form of humanity - so long as it runs both ways. Life makes little sense without compassion to sustain it. When one of us goes down - it matters little who - we somehow revert to being divine supports for each other. That's been my experience in this hospital bed, and it has transformed my spirit.
As mentioned, all the orthopedic stuff is done. Now (tomorrow) they transplant a thin slice of muscle over the hole in my shin from where the bone came through. A tricky operation, but with a high success rate here at UCLA.
Hope to have good news soon about this whole fandango.
Love each other. There isn't anything else worthwhile.
JL
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 17, 2012 - 08:08pm PT
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"Love each other. There isn't anything else worthwhile."
Ill second that....
John.... good to know your doing better, keep it up, the PT gets fun quickly.
Is this the first time you have been injured? Badly?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 17, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
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Hey buddy,
Glad to hear you're in good hands and better spirits. I guess it was just your turn this time, eh? Most of us have a turn at it, sooner or later.
From one "frankenankle" to another, enjoy your off time, do what the docs say, and eventually you'll be back on the rock.
Don't worry or fret - just heal, and then - one day - shut up and climb.
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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Dec 17, 2012 - 11:23pm PT
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John,
Believe me, I know how lonely those Hospital rooms can get.
Here's an ole' timer get well card:
Get Well soon, man.
Consider coming up to my place in Washington ("the Green State") for some rest, relaxation, and rehabilitation.
Phil
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Dec 17, 2012 - 11:39pm PT
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glad yr at ucla largo.
a top teaching & research hospital is a good place to be at times like this.
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MH2
climber
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Dec 17, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
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Yes, they could learn something from JL.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Dec 18, 2012 - 01:59am PT
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TY
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 18, 2012 - 02:44am PT
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Love each other. There isn't anything else worthwhile.
Don't mind being the one to "Third" that.
May the healing journey bring new insight and evolution
Because we gotta make the best of everything. My two injuries definitely contained blessings in disguise
peace
Karl
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Dec 18, 2012 - 03:33am PT
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Wishing you a solid recovery John.
I went thru a very serious tib fib break in 2007, and I was not smiling like that within the first week, so I can safely say you will be fine. I did make a full recovery though, and became a real climber again this year.
Hang in there bro !
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Dec 18, 2012 - 12:16pm PT
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Yesterday at UCLA;.....John is on the mend. It was good to see him.
John and Tony Yeary......
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go-B
climber
Hebrews 1:3
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Dec 18, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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Careful JL, those water and piss bottles are too dame close together!
Good to see you smile!
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 18, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
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Not sure if I've missed it, as I don't follow all the threads on the Taco, but has anything come out on the cause more than "unfinished knot"? I had a friend tell me that he'd read that the knot *was* finished, but there was no backup tied. I do not want to spread rumors, and if nothing has been said, that's fine. I would just like to know if what i was told is true.
GO
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yeahman
Mountain climber
Montana
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Jan 18, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
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It was unfinished.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jan 18, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
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Well John now that you have joined the middle aged gimp club (I am a member)
you can help petition for a handicap system like in golf. A 10a could become 10c if you have arthritis or 11b if missing a limb. Cosmic Cragsman might rate an 11a once his shoulder heals a bit.
Todd Gordon will get nothing for his hair-challenged situation but taking care of 3 young kids would rate a 1 letter boost.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Pollock Pines, California
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Jan 18, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
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i have one hand free 2nd weekend in march,
maybe one of yuall could meet up
with me in some sketchy ghetto
and help me kick my own asse.
i need's some recovery to
exhaust all this runaway well
being's i've been joying
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 18, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
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yeahman said:It was unfinished.
As has already been pointed out upthread, "unfinished" can mean several things. If you've a link to anything more clear, that would be appreciated.
GO
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 18, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
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I made the two bowline loops, and threaded the rope through my harness, but I didn't bring the rabbit out of the hole and around the tree.
So "unfinished" in the sense that he began climbing before finishing tying the knot, which means there was no knot at all.
NOT "unfinished" in the sense that the bowline was tied but none of the possible bowline back-ups were applied.
The Bowline-Instrument-of-Death crowd leaped on this as an example of the danger of bowlines, but exactly the same type of accident might have (and has) occurred with a figure-eight.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 18, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
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Thanks RG. So the rumor I heard was untrue. Glad to hear it.
Hope JL recovers quickly and fully.
GO
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 18, 2013 - 10:38pm PT
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we do the "John Long" inspection at the gym now... making sure the climber has finished their knot...
easy to do... and we get to think about John all the time...
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jan 18, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
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I'm going to just toss out my random baseless theory about the knot-thing.
Edit to delete my wrong theory now that R-Gold gave me the slapdown ;)
@ Donald:
John Long is the lead singer of some washed up rock band and I think the "knots" are his backup singers.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jan 18, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
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Gyms are mostly jingus and the good ones are bouldering oriented.
The best ones are private garage affairs.
In my Freakin' opinion.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 19, 2013 - 12:27am PT
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I'm going to just toss out my random baseless theory about the knot-thing.
You got the characterization right.
John told us exactly what happened, and I just re-posted his quote five posts up from your RBT.
HIS KNOT DID NOT UNTIE!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jan 19, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
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Sorry R-Gold... and you can back off the bold buttons there. I actually backtracked looking for John's (personal) explanation before posting. I was trying to avoid the mistake I just made, and evidently didn't go back far enough and scrutinizing your re-post was off the radar. It didn't register that it was a direct quote from John for some reason.
Hope John has a good recovery BTW.
Edit @ rGOLD: Viva la Chopolette! If John had been using like.. 12 knots to tie into that gym anchor, this tragic accident never would have happened. ;)
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 19, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
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JTM, I got the quote from a Rock and Ice update, http://tinyurl.com/RandI-Largo-Update. At this point I don't recall whether it or a link was ever posted to one of the two threads here.
Sorry about the bold-faced shouting; at the moment it seemed to be called for, given that accurate information was available and had just been provided.
I can't fathom why you bring up the Chopolette. Ha---I had to search to discover it is something I posted. It has absolutely nothing to do with tying in and hasn't the faintest connection to John's accident.
For anyone whose interest is now unfortunately piqued, the Chopolette was part of a now seven year-old discussion initiated by Largo on rc.com on self-equalizing anchors. Even at the moment of proposal, it was clear that there would be too much friction in the "equalizing module" for it to perform effectively. It was a concept proposal. I went so far as to convince Mal Daly to make up a version for me modeled on the Trango Alpine Equalizer, but that prototype too seemed to have too much friction to be effective, and in any case none of my friends would use it.
We now know, because of further testing, that three-anchor self-equalizing systems in general perform no better than fixed-arm systems, which themselves equalize quite poorly. The Chopolette and all the other delightful inventions in that extensive thread were doomed to a fully-deserved irrelevancy.
As for the crack about "like...12 knots," the sad fact is that John's accident would have been prevented by one knot, the one he never finished tying.
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John Butler
Social climber
SLC, Utah
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Jan 19, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
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Jan 18, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
we do the "John Long" inspection at the gym now... making sure the climber has finished their knot...
easy to do... and we get to think about John all the time...
So do we... And think about him, too
:-)
jb
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 19, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
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Todd Gordon will get nothing for his hair-challenged situation but taking care of 3 young kids would rate a 1 letter boost.
LOL
Maybe more like one number.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 19, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
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You people need to get lives....
John's fine. Weird TMZ-like obsession with this sh#t.
Go climb something.
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weezy
climber
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Jan 19, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
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bunny comes out of the hole, around the tree and back into the hole....
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redrocker
climber
NV
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Apr 17, 2014 - 06:16pm PT
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Bump:
For an update from the man himself or from anyone close to him that know's how the healing has progressed.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Apr 17, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
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His body passed away but years of disciplined effort allowed him to infuse his awareness into cyberspace.
He is among us..
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Apr 17, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
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It's scary . . . his awareness is EVERYWHERE!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 17, 2014 - 11:46pm PT
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at the Blitzo memorial
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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May 22, 2019 - 08:13pm PT
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Bump for End Days
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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May 22, 2019 - 08:26pm PT
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Bump to the end
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Messages 1 - 329 of total 329 in this topic |
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