Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 28, 2012 - 11:43pm PT
Anyone see the documentary on Ginger Baker?... ok, not just Cream but also Blind Faith, Baker Gurvitz Army, Ginger Baker's Air Force, Hawkwind, Public Image Ltd., Atomic Rooster, Masters of Reality, Ginger Baker Trio, BBM, Fela Kuti... &c.
Could you perhaps recommend something from Cream? I have listened to quite a few of their "hits", have went out and bought the Weels of Fire LP (yeah, I'm one of those vinyl guys), but somehow feel that White Room stands out a lot, the rest being a bit... lacking something?
Leading with Cream and going straight to Ginger Baker? The weakest link. When working with various drummers, we'd shout "Yo Ginger Baker!" in the talkback as an insult.
"Yo Ginger Baker!" as a climber's call would mean get on the beat, stop futzing around, take up the slack.
it seems that there is the (predictable) disagreement about good drumming and the composition of a good performance...
the punk rebellion against long song performances, and extended instrumental solo improvisations would be fully realized if one pursued the activity:
rank the best drummers
but in a really odd twist, bands like Cream took the practice from early performances in jazz and the like... a more classical approach to performance when they thought they were being progressive... and punk, well, maybe atavistic to even early performance practice of fitting the song onto a single side of a 78 rpm sized platter...
White Room was the name Roger and I chose for the scariest climb I ever did.
"The route name refers to the climactic inside corner, with overtones of madness and electric guitar."
There are a few bands/musicians that stay at the top of my favorite list, and Cream is always on it.
Crossroads (from the live part of Wheels of Fire) is like an encyclopedia of electric blues licks. Sunshine of Your Love, White Room, Tales of Brave Ulysses, Spoonful.... And then you have the more plaintive/haunting side with stuff on Disraeli Gears like World of Pain, Dance the Night Away.
I really like their open-ended jamming approach to songs, merging the jazz notion of a song head and rounds of improvisation, with straight up rock. Cool that 3 people can make so much sound!
For interesting comparison, Eric Clapton's "24 Nights" (live album produced during concerts at Royal Albert Hall ~ 1990 or so) are excellent updates of many of the Cream classics. The originals have their special irreplaceable sound, but the 24 Nights versions come pretty close to being my favorites too.
Why is Ginger Baker like 711 coffee?
They both suck without cream!
Actually Ginger is a good drummer and did some interesting stuff with Bill Laswell in the 90's. Plus check out his trio album with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden, really good stuff
Cool, got to see that film.
It was Bill Laswell who put Ginger and Jonny Rotten together. Johnny and Bill were doing an album and were trying to figure out which drummer to get. JR snarled "Ginger Baker" as a joke. Laswell said "That's the first good idea you had" So Bill talked Ginger out of retirement. Bill and Ginger did quite a bit of work together. These may have been the best albums of his post Cream career.
Totally eclipsed by Hendrix within a matter of months.
In a particularly over confident gesture Hendrix asked if he could jam with Cream at their gig at Central London Polytechnic. Hendrix took the stage and tore through a version of 'Killing Floor' in double time. Cream soon regretted allowing him to join them. Hendrix's outrageous stage antics and dazzling guitar playing caused Clapton to leave the stage in a state of shock. He asked Chas Chandler afterwards "Is he always that f***ing good?"
Cream had a significant jump in popularity after the release of Disraeli
Gears, when Sunshine of Your Love became a hit single.
On their first U.S. tour, they were still known mainly to the FM/hippy
crowd, while the vast majority of youthful listeners were in the AM/top 40
mode.
I saw them at the Fillmore Auditorium in August 67. The bill was
Electric Flag
Cream
Gary Burton Quartet
The crowd was so skimpy and mellow that I could walk up to the stage and
watch Clapton from within touching distance. Aside from the intangibles of
his musical performance, one thing that really struck me was the way he
made it look like he really wasn't doing anything. Like anybody could do it.
The ballroom scene in those days, opposed to the arena scene (which Cream
hit after their 2nd U.S. tour) was 3-night or 4-night stands.
Cream played two weeks at the Fillmore their first time through. My cousin,
a guitarist, saw them 5 of the 6 nights they played.
I read the NYTimes article that Ed opens with and would like to see the movie.
Ed asked my opinion on Cream songs. The hits are really very good, even today, but the rest are strung out in quality. I have tried to put my finger on why Cream was so good and why it sounded, and still sounds, so unique. Part of it is that Baker, Bruce, and Clapton could play at such a high standard that the music could transcend difficulty. However, nowadays there are many drummers, bass player and guitarist who can play at the same level, so this does not really get at why they sounded the way they did.
Earlier this year, I heard a three piece band play at Severance Hall after a classical concert featuring Bela Fleck playing his banjo concerto. As an encore Fleck played a long improvisation with snippets of famous banjo tunes, all in a more-or-less classical style. The orchestra members seemed to be as mesmerized as the audience. Friday nights at the Orchestra are followed by a band playing n the rotunda, (an effort to draw younger listeners). On this night the group was a pickup band from New Orleans. I don’t think they had spent much time practicing together—there were a lot of solos. The audience were all folks who had just attended the orchestra but we were all pretty much blown away by how well the bass player (six string unfretted electric bass) and the drummer played. Fleck jammed with them for about ½ hour, with his wife singing a few ancient Southern folksongs. The drummer reminded me of Baker, and I overheard several middle-aged guys make the same comment.
After that performance, I listened to some old Cream tunes online and read a bit about them. One funny item I read occurred in one of their extended improvisations. Clapton was not a big fan of those longwinded affairs; he thought that Baker and Bruce were just showing off. So one night he just stopped playing—neither of them noticed.
I also think I know part of why Cream’s music is so unique. The hit tunes were written by Baker and Bruce. Musically, the best Cream tunes are very much structured by the drums and the bass—just listen to the first few bars of the hit tunes. In an analogous way the Rolling Stones tunes are structured by Keith Richards’ style of guitar. I don’t think it is surprising that neither Baker nor Bruce ever did anything after Cream that was as interesting.
Let us know!