Big storm bearing down on Northern California

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tallguy

Trad climber
eastside
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:43pm PT
In terms of the ability of dams to do much flood control in a storm series like those big historical ones, don't get your hopes up. Dams do a pretty good job on the normal and usual storms, as there is only so much water management they can accomplish. Once it gets a little unusual, like in 1998 when dam flood control was basically overwhelmed, dams pretty mcuh stop working, because when the reservoir is full, its like the dam isn't even there. Water in always has to equal water out, so those historical flood conditions might not be as unexpected as you are assuming.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
The devastation caused by gold miners may have had something to do with the impacts of the flood of 1861. They created a huge amount of deforestation, especially in the foothills.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:55pm PT
so those historical flood conditions might not be as unexpected as you are assuming.
Yes, I was thinking about the possible massive overtopping. Less likely because with a forecast, extra water can be released from the reservoirs in advance. But still possible.

And then there are the unusual, but certainly possible again, conditions that created the Yosemite Valley flood of 1997.

MH.....yup.....also the upturning of the stream beds bringing rock to the top and placer mining washing the topsoil away.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson


"great flood o 97'"


My plow unit,,Carson yard 1/1/97 water had already receded from the ealry am crest by two or more feet.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 1, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
Hydraulic mining was a minor contributing factor in the 1861 flood. Mostly in the debris that it liberated down stream that tore up log dams and retaining basins.

The Sacramento, and San Joaqin valleys were lakes for almost a month and Orange County was an inland sea for three weeks. Flow of the Santa Ana river at the narrows was an estimated 320,000 CFS To give that some perspective the average flow of the Missippi is 450,000 CFS.

Even the Mojave river was 20' above flood stage and most of the desert lake beds filled.

I doubt the flood cotrol system could handle it at either end of the state.

For example even if Prado Dam did hold in a repeat of 1861 there would be a deep lake streching from Pomona to Redlands and from the San Gabriels to Corona that would take months to drain without wiping out Anaheim and the coastal cities.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
RDA -- Ophir creek dam, us395 1-2-97
RDA -- Ophir creek dam, us395 1-2-97
Credit: Ron Anderson


a RARE pic of,,,,"Ophir creek DAM".... Flood of 97- washoe valley, old us 395. Neeldess to say,, ol 395 was CLOSED lol!

About a million yards of granite and dg flowed down the highway to bowers mansion from the top of the hill at ophir creek crossing. You didnt do stuff like this every day...Used a few thousand yards in building the dam you see to re-contain ophir creek..
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:07pm PT
hey there say, TGT...

as to this qoute of yours:

Hydraulic mining was a minor contributing factor in the 1861 flood. Mostly in the debris that it liberated down stream that tore up log dams and retaining basins.

The Sacramento, and San Joaqin valleys were lakes for almost a month and Orange County was an inland sea for three weeks. Flow of the Santa Ana river at the narrows was an estimated 320,000 CFS To give that some perspective the average flow of the Missippi is 450,000 CFS.

Even the Mojave river was 20' above flood stage and most of the desert lake beds filled

WOW--the things that they did NOT teach us in our calif history...
wish they had...
thanks for sharing... i never knew of this...



also, say, ron:
neat pics of the past flooding, etc...
thanks for sharing...
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:09pm PT
hey there say, all you calif folks near this area:

brentwood, etc..


i got a friend there and she's said that she often wonders what wuold
happened, and/or, what it would take to make those levee's overflow...

she's fairly certain it just might flood her home, if they did...

they've had up to two inches around there home, from hard rains...
(not sure if she ment now, from the storm, or from a past one--put it IS raining-wet there, now) ...

thanks for any shares or thoughts or knowledge on this...
:)


edit:

say, i think, though i did not read the article, but:
it LOOKS like there is another storm system ALREADY coming
in, next, really soon?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:22pm PT
Neebs, advise her to seek HIGH ground the second she even THINKS its getting close. And PRE pack some important papers and belongings.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
Discovery Bay, right next to Brentwood and many central Delta areas are protected by one measly levee with some Delta properties actually lying under high tide line. That area is a massive disaster waiting to happen.

Probably not this time, but a similar series of storms on top of a huge snowpack might do it.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
uhm… maybe its just me or something…


BUT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BIG STORM IN CALIFORNIA!!!



Ok, there have been storms… but given that these 3 "big" storms look nothing larger than I've ever seen before in my life. I am inclined to believe that this one is of no more significants than any other "fall weather"…. rainy, cloudy, foggy (in my area), cold….. Overall, the 3-pack of clouds has nothing in them.

I can change my mind when I see more under water than not under water



To be honest there seems to be nothing out of the ordinary with this weather….But I guess with Sandy hitting the east the west wants to get back some of that tragedy attention, I guess.

But then again…. people almost never do that… do they?
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
It looks like by Monday we'll have had maybe 7" for this storm system just west of Yosemite.

It wasn't very dramatic though. Santa Cruz mountains were way more interesting.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:44pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson


US 395 S goes right through the lake....
US 395 S goes right through the lake....
Credit: Ron Anderson


Credit: Ron Anderson


Credit: Ron Anderson


flood of 97 pics from garderville to carson..
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Dec 1, 2012 - 08:01pm PT
Hundreds of homes in Weston Ranch, Just south of Stockton were built on a flood plane. Crappy homes that sold for over 5k and now worth about 2K. Just stupid they ever built there except for the developers.
John M

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 08:08pm PT
Why does big automatically get misconstrued as biggest?

Are you all retarded?

I was sort of wondering the same thing, though I was thinking in terms of being misconstrued as catastrophic. I understood that you were just stoked for the potential of some serious snow. If it had snowed down just a little bit lower it would have been fantastic.

In their defense, there were a number of news reports that focused on how potentially enormous it could have been.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 08:08pm PT
thats what SHE said...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
I had a fairly benign purpose in mind for opening the thread... a big storm was in fact bearing down on California and a lot and I mean a lot of jaded assed climbers think they can go sashaying out in that sh#t lah dee dah. Some of you can. Most of us can't. It was a friendly warning from a weather aficionado... this one was going to hit. And it did.

You're welcome.

Now you can back to telling stories about how you been beat up by uglier women than me. I hope you have, too. Bad.

DMT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
dammm smokin sum gursh tonight eerrr whut?
John M

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 08:23pm PT
Well sh#t.. I knew it was benign. Didn't' think about climbers going out in it.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 1, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
I had the flu this week, that sh#t is viral!

Five bucks says Dingus will post a TR about the flu!

Ten bucks that it will be brilliant!
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