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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Nov 28, 2012 - 12:47am PT
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Does anyone remember the article Doug Robinson wrote way back in the early 70s or maybe even 1970 in which he reasoned that people should just keep their first ascents to themselves and end the reporting rampage that was going on? The idea, I recall, was to bring climbing motivations back to some level of purity. I often think of that when people wonder about the big historical gap in activity during the 70's. Maybe somebody could dig up the article. It may have been CLIMBING magazine that it was in.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Nov 28, 2012 - 12:58am PT
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Squeeze jobs, variations, move left then right then left....70m for this pitch, wire brush for that pitch.
I can't tell you where it is, cuz it's sooooooo classic!
Hahahahhah nothin left but choss.
Nowadays, the "Line" is only seen through the eye of the beholder.
FA'ist are twisted for sure.
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skywalker
climber
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Nov 28, 2012 - 01:05am PT
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M.N.
I don't know of the article but that was what I was getting at. For us, boulders were all we really had but the nature of the environment and rock and the sheer quantity of problems (very unique rock and thousands!) who knew if it had been done. More often you'd never see a soul all day yet there were many climbers but you looked at the rock for awhile and a line suddenly appeared in your head and you'd try for minutes, hours, days, etc and if you got it...well its probably an FA. But a year later your chaulk is gone and its another FA ready to be had!
S...
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2012 - 02:06am PT
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It kind of bums me out that people are doing FAs and not saying anything. I like the idea of being somewhere that nobody else has, and those people make it so you can never be sure.
I guess what you don't know can't hurt you. Unless you don't know you have malaria.
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ec
climber
ca
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Nov 28, 2012 - 02:32am PT
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limpingcrab,
Hey, it's always been that way, anyway and still is. You just never know who's been there; just like being the first time for everyone. I did several 'natural' line FA's in Domeland Wilderness BITD on the stealth and then, 15 years later, I read about them in the 'new' guidebook done by someone else, 15 years after the fact. It was a good laugh, actually...they still don't know...
 ec
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Nov 28, 2012 - 02:45am PT
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It kind of bums me out that people are doing FAs and not saying anything. I like the idea of being somewhere that nobody else has, and those people make it so you can never be sure.
Ah, but there is still some thrill in the hunt. Sometimes you can be sure, when you stumble across evidence. A tiny bit of old tat knotted on the ground, or a freshly drilled bolt. I've explored several completely undocumented crags, small to quite large, and came across new bolts. In almost all cases, with a bit of research or a friendly note I was able to find out the culprits. Then I was in on the secret and sometimes became part of the game.
Although public announcements may not be made, subtle inquiries via good old word of mouth can be revealing.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 28, 2012 - 02:57am PT
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It seems like In some areas, like our rainforest. FAs require serious work, scrubbing moss, peeling carpets, digging dirt & roots out of cracks. Even -gasp- cutting trees are often required to clean a route. If the FAist doesn't share with enough ppl & there's no traffic it's going turn green and the forest will reclaim. There's secret & low key areas for sure but usually after a season or 2 of plum picking & solitude the cat seems to get outta the bag which is a good thing if these routes are to stand the test of time. I'm sure things were different 35 years ago when the trees were a lot smaller & the moss thinner.
Edited-
In a place with rock that is naturally cleaner I could see things staying on the down low for a lot longer, especially places like California or Utah that have waaaaaaayy higher climber populations. Makes sense, if you want to climb new lines you gotta go look for them. Exploring is part of climbing, if your waiting for someone to print you out the instructions, it's time to get out there & see what's on the other side of the hill. I like Mucci's post:
Nowadays, the "Line" is only seen through the eye of the beholder.
FA'ist are twisted for sure.
Myself if I find something I'll try & climb as much as I can before letting any of the mutants know. Try & convince the wife to carry some pads or give me a catch :-) Once your satisfied it's nice to share the love.
Sick boulders above.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2012 - 03:02am PT
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How about I never say anything but everyone else tells me what they do? :)
ec- I figured you'd been out there.
People have good points on both sides. I just posted this to see what people think...
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ec
climber
ca
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Nov 28, 2012 - 03:15am PT
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How about I never say anything but everyone else tells me what they do? :)
I used this tactic for years...
ec
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splitter
Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Nov 28, 2012 - 04:14am PT
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I climbed some with Dave Anderson (RIP) from Seattle. I think it was the Spring of '74 we did a hand full of FA in the Valley in the 5.10+/5.11 range (2-3+ pitches). I do recall discussing different possibilities of names for a few of them. At the time there was a notebook kept in c4 with all the new routes listed there as they got put up. It was a sort of strange time, and Dave (and a few of NW climbers in general) felt as though there was to much of a focus put on "getting your name in the guidebook" so they decided to not bother. I watched the guide closely, and everyone of the routes were eventually done by various climbers. A couple 'plumb' routes. The only name I can recall being associated with any of them was a Rick Sylvester FA! A fun route involving a roof that took a considerable amount of time to clean all the dirt out of. But there were many others. If I had it to do over with, I would have just went with one of the dumb names we first came up with and posted it myself, instead of bickering over it (probably initially had something to do with it).
And I started bouldering out at Mt. Woodson in '71 and spent a lot of time seeking out new routes, primarily cracks in the 5.10-5.11 range, from '71-'74! i left San Diego for the Valley and eastside in the Spring of '74 and when I returned to bouldering in dago around the mid 80's these routes we did all had new names and FA claims. Personally, I couldn't give a sh#t less. And the names peeps came up with are a lot better, anyway.
Three of the very popular offwidths (now) I/we named Power Shortage, Power Outage, and Energy Crisis, because the nation was experiencing one around that time!
1,000 years from now it won't mean shit! So get over it!
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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Nov 28, 2012 - 05:07am PT
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if I've learned anything from here is that you keep it a secret until someone else tries to claim it.......
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The Alpine
climber
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Nov 28, 2012 - 10:44am PT
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Its all ego driven. Ego to share, and ego to keep secret.
Whatever you do, make sure you at least document them in some form for yourself, lest ye forget. Then on your deathbed you can pass on the knowledge.
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Borut
climber
french, spider, cheater
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Nov 28, 2012 - 10:52am PT
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FAs: my sole reason for joining internet! LOL
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Scott Thelen
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Nov 28, 2012 - 11:05am PT
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I just keep them to myself.
Then smile when they get repeated.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Nov 28, 2012 - 11:39am PT
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One of my most pleasant memories from my time in N. County SD, was walking point (Brushhook operator) with the Warbler was when we were opening Rainbow.
The man likes to explore.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
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Hey dingus, where's Sleeping Beauty?
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Nov 28, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
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the gift of passage across the passive surface of our planet ...
a string of moments marked with sufficient indelible beauty
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adventurous one
Trad climber
Truckee Ca.
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Nov 28, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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This place was my little secret from 35 yrs ago (77/78). The place has seen alot of development since and I only recently became aware of thru
the Lassen/Plumas County thread below. Paul Bernard contacted me about his upcoming guidebook and we set history straight before the book was published. So since the time I climbed there the name of the crag was changed, names of my routes were changed by people thinking they had the FA's. Many routes now have bolted pro and belay/rap stations when my 1st ascents were done clean on lead or top roped.
That's a shame and the best reason, by far, to report fa trad routes done in good style by yourself or those that you have knowledge of.
If you do a route (or have knowledge of one) done in respectable trad style, reporting it so that future generations will, hopefully, respect it and not retro bolt your accomplishment is a service to future climbers/naturalists imo. Look at all the retro bolted and "squeeze" routes we already have in the US of previously undocumented routes done bitd, not to mention the ruining of so many crags in Europe, where some climbers believe it ok to even bolt perfect cracks at many crags. It only takes one (weak minded, oblivious 'first ascentionist" who believes he has the "right") person believing they are doing the Fa to ruin the mental adventure and pro finding fun/challange of a route by retro bolting it. And, it's just interesting to know who/how a route was done "bitd". In the future "today" will be "back in the day" and a part of climbing history.
Personally, my foremost motivation in writing a guidebook (which revealed hundreds of previously obscure, undocumented routes done bitd) was to preserve these traditionally established routes (some of which were starting to be retro bolted and un-necessary hardware at belays installed) in their current un-bolted state for future generations and to discourage retro bolting.
Publisizing a 60' 5.14 sport route has a whole different set of motivations though.................. and publisizing a small crag near an urban area with a sizable number of climbers nearby may have other consequences to consider and differs from areas (the majority) with vast climbing opportunities.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 28, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
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. 2.5 years of nothing but hiking , taking pics, making drawings and interviewing climbers. In short, a shyt load of work with very little or NO payback if counting the actual overhead costs out of pocket for such an effort.
Ron's right, the ppl out there developing & organizing guides etc. are doing it out of a passion usually, although like anything in life- the ego can always be incorporated if you aren't paying attention. A big thanks to anyone who has ever done an FA whether they decided to share it or not. All of your hard work is appreciated whether its a little buttdragger in a talus field or a grade V alpine ridge.
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Michelle
Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
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Nov 28, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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I made the mistake of telling someone I thought could be trusted about an area. Never f*#king again. Ever. Especially when return sharing has never happened. All the stupid secrecy sh#t gets on my nerves and reminds me of high school.
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