The Dental Topic Thread: I'd like to be a resource if needed


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Trad climber
Dec 8, 2012 - 07:49am PT

It was very kind of you to start this thread.

I'm very lucky that my daughter-in-law is a skilled dentist, (graduated top in her class at UPENN).

I won't be bothering you with any questions.

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 8, 2012 - 08:27am PT
thank you.

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
Quadrant 3 done today, 1 more to go. The ice and IB work well. Thanks again Tooth and Micronut.

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Jan 14, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
#4 done! The doc was half way into it when he said I needed a bone graft. I wiggled my fingers (how much), he put it in gratis as he had leftover from a pt before me. How cool.
I guess it says something about being a long term patient with the same doc. Very lucky indeed to have the insurance too, very lucky.
(lots of great info up thread thanks to our resident dentists btw...)
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 14, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
Joey F, good show!
Credit: mouse from merced
Will all this improve your belay responses?

Massive :)!!!!


Social climber
Hercules, CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
Here's a question I haven't seen asked yet. I got a scaling and root planing last year. The dentist tried to talk me into a set of injected antibiotics too. I balked when I saw that they wanted me to pay about $100/tooth. Gah, I was getting two crowns at the same time so I told her no.

I researched it on the Net and it seemed that there is a little bit of controversy on it. Not all folks are convinced that it works.

Besides, I'm not really a fan of using antibiotics if I don't already have a bacterial infection.

After the procedures, I didn't notice anything and have concluded that it's another way for the office to make money. The dentist I was going to seemed to part of a larger corporation and not in her own office. Didn't know that going in.

So anyway, what do you guys think of antibiotic prophylaxis for root planing and scraping?

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 23, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
I probably should have followed the advice, "Pull them all out and be done with it, you'll save yourself a lot of money and pain." which was the opinion that prevailed among the old timer's during my youth in Cape Breton. Well, I got off to a good start in that direction, regardless.

My first toothache, and therefor dental visit, presented itself shortly before my 9th birthday. I woke up one morning and the first molar my on my lower left side was aching.

I had to wait for my father to get home from work, at which time he arranged an after hours appointment with a dentist. It was early evening when we arrived at his office. I recall him being an older guy, and he was extremely drunk. I climbed into the dental chair at which time he attempted to stand up from his office chair but almost hit the floor, but managed to sit back down. He never left that seat...thank God!

Long story short, he told my father where the pliers (what they looked like to me). He then told me to point to which tooth it was. Then he simply told my father to, "Yank the sum'bitch out", plain and simple. No novocaine, no nothing. My father made quick work of it. But all it really needed was a simple filling. It is still the only tooth missing on my lower jaw.

Okay, here is the real doosie! We lived in SLC, Utah when I was 13 through 15. I woke up one morning (when I was 14) with this ache in my gum just below the bottom of my nose. I immediately went into the bathroom and looked into the mirror. I didn't recognize myself. My face was swollen to the size of a volley ball. I was immediately taken to a dentist.

The dentist said that it was an abscess, and that he would have to do a root canal on one of my front teeth to release all of the fluid. I remember sitting in the chair and the dentist telling the nurse not to bother to prepare a novacaine injection because he feared that it would mix with the infection fluids causing the swelling and might go to my brain. She looked shocked. His response, "Don't worry, the pain will knock him out within the first minute." It didn't, never did.

It took him around 45-50 minutes to drill up through the whole length my right front tooth (follow the nerve root) to the gum/jawbone. I will never forget what the three (3) main drill bits looked like. of which he rotated back and forth with. There was a tiny one that had a high pitched whining noise. A medium sized one, and a particularly dreadful one that was the largest, was round, and had these little rectangular nobs protruding from it.

There is absolutely no words that can describe the hideous pain that I endured. Believe me, it was pure torture. I have, over the years, described the experience in more detail to doctors, dentist, etc, and they all responded the same way. One, it was malpractice, two it was torture. Well, if that (drilling through my right front tooth) wasn't torture, what he did next was.

After the drill bit, the big one with the bumps, popped through the end of my tooth into my gum/jaw bone and nothing happened (he was expecting all the fluid and puss to drain out, he instructed me to suck as hard as I could to help initiate it. As painful as it was to do so, I gave it all I had, but nothing happened. Man was he pissed.

He began pacing back and forth, telling me that I wasn't trying hard enough, etc! Finally, he told the nurse to bring back the drill bits, and he laid them back out on the tray in front of me. He said that he was going to take a 15 minute break and if I hadn't managed to get the fluid draining by sucking on that tooth as hard as I could, that he was going to drill through my left front tooth. Believe me, as painful as it was to do so with those three instruments of torture staring me in the face, I gave it all I had but nothing happened.

It took him another 45-50 minutes of constant drilling to, once again, drill all the way up through the center of that tooth to the gum/jaw. Pure torture. No pain medicine, not even an aspirin. The nurse and my mother put cold wash cloths on my head and looked like they were about to weep. At first, the dentist instructed them to hold me down, but they didn't need to because I was holding onto the chair with all of my strength and every muscle in my body was contracted, that's about all I could do.

When he finished the second tooth, and nothing happened, once again he paced back and forth, looking very frustrated. Suddenly he stopped, looked as if a light had come on/something had dawned on him and he walks over and lifts up my top lip. I wonder what he thought, felt like when he saw the dark blue abscess that was at the top of my inner lip/gum just below the nose. All I could see in his face was a slight trace of disgust.

He then took out a small scapal and simply lanced/poked it and everything came gushing out. That's all he had to do in the first place, simply lance it, a relatively painless procedure which would have also saved me from later losing my two front teeth.

He then, once again without any novacaine or pain meds, inserted and sutured into place a 6 inch section of surgical tubing so any of the remaining fluid would continue to drain. He didn't bather to fill the two front teeth for the same reason. He sent me home with zero pain med's, not even any antibiotics/prescriptions. I thought that was rather odd, since it was an infection.

I remember being curled up on the living room couch in a fetal position for two days and two nights, in horrible pain and not being to sleep. I couldn't breath through my nostrils because they were swollen shut. And I couldn't close my mouth because of the tube protruding from it. With each breath this searing pain shot through my head.

On the third day my aunt and uncle arrived from California on there summer vacation. Just a few minutes after they arrived I heard her exclaim, "Poor boy." and she dug through her purse and gave me a pill. Not sure what it was, but it knocked me out and I awoke a day or so later and the pain seemed to be only half as bad.

To be continued (you won't believe what happened to me about 15 years later)...

Trad climber
Mar 23, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
Phil B.

Micronut is a periodontist so this area is his specialty.

I provide my hygienists the tool Arrestin, the antibiotic at $100/ tooth. Works wonders on stubborn areas that won't heal up to 2-3mm pockets. We also use lasers, scaling, root planing, and all other tools that we can find. I've seen many patients who we have helped stop perio dz and get to a stable, healthy state using a lot of tools. I also read research a lot and have read research showing that almost every single procedure I do is ineffective. Yet people's bodies heal when they start taking care of themselves after we help educate and then treat them.

If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

When you get 4 dentists in a room, you will have 5 strong opinions on what to do.

What I tell my patients is that there are lots of options. Let's educate you on what is going on in your mouth, then choose the best solution/plan. Next, we find the guys who do those procedures the best. Everything can work to a degree, but some guys try ortho (braces) and don't succeed at first, then never do it. Others keep doing it and study it, figure it out, and then excel at it. I refer my patients to the best guy for their best treatment option.

I can do a study here that shows that mini implants suck. They fall out. Our oral surgeons hate them because all they do is remove them. They have this opinion because only one guy around does them. And doesn't do them well. I know another who does do them excellently and has followed up on everything and hasn't lost more than 1% over 14 years.

So pick the treatment you want, and get the right guy for the job. No dentist can specialize in even a tenth of the stuff that is out there now, it's just too much.

Oh, and antibiotics before prophy, etc? If it is 2g Amoxicillin, research is showing more and more that the systemic pill therapy isn't doing much for people. Doctors just do it to cover their butts because as we all know, medicine is primarily driven by legal precedent in the US, not by research. Dentistry is beginning to get there thanks to lawyers. To your detriment.

Trad climber
Mar 29, 2013 - 12:29am PT
So what's the rest of the story Splitter?

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 29, 2013 - 11:57am PT
So what's the rest of the story Splitter?
I've been kind of regretting even posting the first one, and I didn't want to trash this positive & well meaning thread with another one of my epic downer, this kind of sh#t only happens to dirtbags, stories. But, since ya requested it...

I was pounding nails on the South Shore (Tahoe) one summer ('79) and managed to f'up my lower back up pretty good. I ended up in the Truckee Hospital. The doc put me in traction, etc. and I was in there for 18 days and counting (they didn't seem to know how much longer i was gonna need to stay). But that was about as long as I could handle it, so I just up and split one day.

I was still in pretty bad shape, with very little money, so when I finally arrived at my brothers place in San Diego (he let me recoup there) I was broke. The hospital bill was waiting for me, since I had gave his address as a 'permanent address'. You can imagine what that looked like (don't recall the exact amount) so I applied for Medical, and received it, which covered the cost.

Medical, at the time, also covered dental and I had one small cavity that I had detected so I decided to get that taken care of (i was okay'ed for around 3 months of Medical). So I randomly pick this dentist out of the San Diego phone book. And I went in. To save time I will inform you now, it took six (6) different visits too 6 different dentists to get that one small cavity fixed.

They all followed the exact same system/procedure. I would go in, be placed in a dental chair and a full set of x-rays would be taken by a tech/nurse (or whomever) then they would pack my mouth/gums with gauze and the dentist would come in and administer the shots. Probably fairly standard.

I recall, a couple of times trying to explain what tooth I was in there for, but was usually cut short by the nurse/tech and reassured that the dentist would see what needed to be fixed. And by then, my whole mouth was so numb, I could only mumble anyway.

Every one of them pretty much followed the same procedure once they began work also. Long story short, they would remove every filling in my mouth, drill the underlying surface (supposedly cleaning away any new decay) and then refill or cap (when necessary) each tooth. My mouth was so numb, I couldn't tell if he had fixed the one I had initially went in for or not. The first five (5) didn't. I finally got the 6th dentists attention, after he had supposedly finished.

I told him that he missed one, and tried to show him by running my tongue over my lower left teeth. He didn't even look (my tongue and lips were so numb, I couldn't really tell where I was sticking my tongue, but it was in the general direction of the cavity). All he said was, "How did you know there was a cavity there?" HE obviously knew there was a small cavity there! And therefore, imo, all of the dentist I had visited probably new there was a cavity there also. I have NO clue why they didn't fix it...'nip it in the bud' (so to speak). So he fixes it without even looking at the x-ray, he knew it was there. The point is, I would have only gone to one dentist, the first one, had that one fixed it.

They were ignoring the x-rays they took. Because I had just had every one of them fixed. I kid you not, they were drilling teeth that had NO decay, and refilling them. And, for some reason that I have no clue of, they were skipping this small cavity that was on my lower left side.

I mean, I picked six random dentist. I don't recall why I never went back to any of first five to get that one fixed that they missed, I guess I figured if they had missed it, the weren't worth going back too. I had no idea that they were drilling down my teeth and getting closer and closer to the nerve root each time. I just figured that the prior dentist had missed something, and they were getting or fixing it.

I know that when a significant amount of time goes by (5-10 years, perhaps) decay could often build up under one or more of my fillings and they would remove them and clean them up (remove the decay) and refill them, particularly if it was a capped tooth. But, I had gone to each of these dentist within this three month period that I had the MediCal, not enough time for decay to build. I simply figured that the prior dentist had perhaps missed or skipped something and they were getting what they missed.

I'm not sure what else they did, perhaps drilled teeth that had no decay or fillings to begin with, I don't really know. But, about 1-2 years later, the sh#t really hit the fan.

I recall seeing headlines announcing a, "Big crackdown on MediCal fraud." I thought, since I had gone to six dentist, that perhaps I was guilty of abusing the system. I was ready to fight it, because I had only wanted to get that one tooth fixed.

I left my brothers house and had returned to the eastside for the winter of '81/'82. And my brother sent me this 800 # with a woman/caseworker's name. He said that she was trying to contact me. She called a bunch of times over a 1-2 year period. I never called back because I figured that they wanted to prosecute me for fraud or whatever, I never called her back. So, eventually she stops calling (but I kept her name and # in my wallet).

Then, one morning around '85/'86 I see this breaking news story; "Judge decides to award the full amount of $250K to each patient." (from each doctor/dentist that the medical fraud had been brought against).

Those who had been awarded the malpractice in connection with the fraud were going to be awarded somewhere between 25K-250K for each one (doctor, dentist who had been guilty of fraud / malpractice). The Judge decided to award the claimants (which I would have been one had I called her back) the full $250,000.00 each per fraud case.

I couldn't believe it. I dug the 800# out and managed to get a hold of her. She said I would have been one of their star witnesses, and would have collected 250K from each of the doctors! BTW, I eventually ended up either loosing, or needing root canals on all of those teeth (sooner than later).

I would have been a millionaire and then some, $1,500,000.00! I would have bought property. My damn goal was to buy a, "two story log cabin with a view of the White Mountains in one direction, and Mt Tom in the other" that I mentioned on another thread recently.

Oh well.

EDIT: I left out one part that was particularly abusive or at least negligent (in my opinion). One of those dentist left me on laughing gas (the only dentist that put me on it) and sitting in the chair waiting for him, from 2:30 (when i began my visit) to 6:30 (when he finally finished). I sat there, (under anesthesia/laughing gas) until 5:30 (3 hours) waiting for him.

I recall requesting (before i was put under) Fleetwood Macs album Rumors to listen too on the headset, when they gave me a choice of music. I new that album by heart, since my roommate had it and I listened to it all the time. I counted all the times I listened to each side as it played over and over as I sat there that 3 hours high on the gas waiting for the dentist. I new something wasn't right, but you are powerless to respond.

After he finished the majority of the work, he took me off the gas but I was still as high as when I was on it. I could hear him yelling at me, "WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU? I TOOK YOU OFF THE GAS (that was a BIG surprise to me, i was feeling exactly the same as when i was on it) YOU BIT DOWN TO DAMN HARD AGAIN AND YOU CRUMBLED ALL OF THE FILLING. NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN (rebuild it)." I could tell he was really pissed, but I had zero control. I was supposed to gently bite down on the carbon paper that would leave a mark of the high points on the filling. I was still so f*#ked up that I couldn't tell if I was biting or not.

He finally let me go, and I had to sit out in the parking lot until after 10:30 PM (over 4 hours) before I got the nerve to drive home. It was like I was drunk. I am amazed that I didn't crash or something. I took all side streets so I wouldn't get ticketed. It was around 5-6 miles to my house. I recall being kind of dingy for at least a week. And felt some effects of it for months afterwards.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 30, 2013 - 11:10am PT
Tooth -- What's up, no comment?

I didn't get any feedback on my 1st post, and like I said, had some reservations in regards to following it up with a 2nd post. You requested it, so I complied. So, I was hoping for the same courtesy from you, but it's not necessary (particularly, if you don't feel compelled to do so). i was mainly sharing (and perhaps venting a little).

I haven't read any of this thread, just the OP. It probably would have been more appropriate for me to post on the other medical thread "What's wrong with Medicare?" (or whatever it's called). I posted my opinion & experiences there in regards to Medicare since I worked in the field for close to 20 years as an OTR, hence I treated & billed Medicare patients, many who were Medi/Medi (MediCare/MediCal) and I'm very familiar with that system and why, imo, it has been shot to hell (simply put).

And, I had actually "randomly picked" seven (7) dentist (not just 6). I left out the first dentist in my story, because I think they let him slide because he did the initial treatment, in which the teeth probably did need the work done.

I am not certain what the whole picture was, what exactly they had defrauded the government on and precisely how they victimized me since I only had a brief conversation with her on the telephone.

I didn't mean to malign your profession, and certainly not you guys in particular, but just wanted to say that I feel the system was defrauded, raped and abused for many years by the people (doctors/md's & dentist) who should have respected it most...and now it is no longer there for those who are in desperate need of it (disabled/elderly, etc).

I am well aware of the need for such services as MediCal (dental) and it is no longer available (at least not in Cali). And I am all for taking trips to faraway places and offering your services (KUDOS), I did the same at one time with mine (as an OTR, upper extremity wound care, burn care, splinting, therapy, neuro, blah, blah, etc in conjunction with Orthopods, Neurologist, MD's in general, etc) and perhaps I will again, God willing. In other words, I'm all for it, because its a big and hurting world we live in.

But there are people here in America that have teeth that are aching just as much, a toothache is a toothache, eh? And poverty is poverty. Maybe you excepted Medical patients when it was available. Not sure, but I would have looked at it as a service to the needy (with at least partial reimbursment/nominal coverage), much like a trip to Tim-buk-too (or wherever) minus the photo op, albeit. ;)

Well ... rant over!

BTW, a friend/acquaintance of mine is a dentist and is a great guy (haven't seen him in years, though). He did the FA of the Chinese Water Torture Route on El Cap Route, while a student at Loma Linda University Dental School, Darrel Teske, perhaps you know of him!

And, thanks for this thread Micronut, although I haven't read any of it, I suspect it has been & will be a beneficial addition to ST.

edit: Like I have said elsewhere, I worked & had health coverage for many years (up till '03) including dental. So, I've seen both sides of the coin (fwiw). ...wudevah!

Trad climber
Mar 31, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Sorry. I was climbing. Back from the weekend. I'll read your rant. But I did read and your stories already. Sorry to hear, but entertaining. I'm always interested in stories of people who end up with dental treatment that they later question. I hear a lot of patients tell stories like this, and usually they have complex situations that they don't understand. I don't want to be the next bad guy on their list, so I really slow down and do the most urgent treatment first and spend as much time as possible educating them. Sometimes they still don't get it. I can't figure out why you went to a third dentist... and on to a 7th! (this happens quite a bit) - and have t heard or even seen (in the books of practices I bought) fraud like you described. Incredible. How did you hit 6 of them in a row like that? Were they advertising to MediCal patients in the yellow pages?

Oh, and for the mission dentistry, I know of over $100,000 of free dentistry given to people in town last year. People who not only need it, but value it. I have a hard time with people who don't want to pay their $8 co-pay but have two Starbucks in their hands at the front desk. There are those who alternate cleanings with their family who get a little help every other visit once I find out. Or the guys who walk 1.5 hrs across town and make it on time , no car or bus money, and do one filling a year( which essentially accomplishes nothing when you have 15 cavities). They get everything done so that what they can pay for will keep them from needing anything but a cleaning every 6 months.
I do stuff overseas because I get requests from there. It also helps locally by bringing other health care professionals and inspiring them to do more than sit on a beach in Mexico on their days off. I can't do half a million of free work a year, but a group of us can. Sometimes it just takes a new experience to get others into it as well.

We don't have the same mediCal system that I used to work with In SoCal. Makes it better for both parties.
mark miller

Social climber
Mar 31, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Yo micronut,
being as you are the only one in this area of the country that has knott operated on me in the last 36 years, maybe we should get together and write a history of procedures and practices over the years. I was involved in a construction accident where the elevator crushed through my jaw half way through my skull and the rebuilding technologies of the 70's on ward, it's been a slice of life.
I can only hope that no one else gets to experience. Fortunately now they keep me on PTSD medications and I get through it day by day.
Maybe we can even climb and have a brew....

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2013 - 11:11am PT
Sorry everyone, haven't tended to this thread lately. I'll look upthread and try to answer the recent questions as soon as I have time.

Phil B.
Good question. Things like Arestin and other antibiotics that are "shoved/injected" under the gumline have a place in dentistry, but honestly I don't use them much at all, and I'm a gum specialist. The reason is this.

1. Even if you "kill" all the bacteria in the mouth lets say, on a monday, several days later the majority of them are back within 40 days. The body tends to re-populate, just like in the gut. There is a natural "flora" that is established and maintained. You take an antibiotic to reduce specific types of bacteria, and those "under the gum" antibiotics are good in killing some of the more potent "bad" players, but there are limitations to how long and how thorough.

2. The dose of Doxycycline is often really low, and the ability of the medication to stay below the gumline for very long is an issue.

3. There is a positive hydrostatic pressure under the gumline that "percolates" fluid called gingival crevicular fluid, up from down inside the pocket. when you inject down into the pocket, there is a tendency for the medication to just "float" back up to the top and out.

4. If there is something down deep under the gumline trapping bacteria...a big old filling, a crack, a furcation.....or tartar/calculus, you have to go get it and fix it. Putting antibiotics down there is just putting lipstick on a pig.

So, in isolated cases, where the deep scaling and root planing hasn't worked all that well, but the patient cannot afford surgery or the disease isn't deep enough to warrant surgery, I use it sparingly in the deeper sites. I charge about 40$per site, just to cover my costs. And I see pretty nice tissue results.

But many dentists use it as a sales pitch and to make money. You have to look out for those guys.



Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:36pm PT

Thought I'd follow up regarding my earlier tooth questions in case you were interested.

Recap: Tooth 20 (lower, left all the way back molar) was cracked so the dentist recommended a crown.

I started the procedure for a crown. A couple days later, the tooth is killing in a way I know means it needs a root canal. I get the root canal.

Dang thing never quit hurting though everyone kept telling me I couldn't feel it (which angered me).

Whined about it for almost two years. Finally, days before I left for a 3 week out of town trip, my lower left jaw really started hurting like I need a root canal. I went to a new endodontist and he thought the problem could be #19. I got a root canal on it.

That was Nov. A few days into my trip, a good part of the partial filling comes out. Boo.

Get back to town, get the crown. Nothing much had changed. Oddly though #20 was feeling better. But #19? Felt like I want to pull #19. Throbbed. Woke me up at night.

I didn't make another trip to the dentist as I was tired of all the trips and being told all was well and that I couldn't feel the tooth since I'd had a root canal.

Hit the dentist a few weeks ago for a standard cleaning. They ask how all is. I tell them the same thing that I'd been saying for three years: my lower left jaw hurts and I want to pull my tooth. Also inform that I can no longer close my mouth properly and that #19 feels like it's lifting out of my jaw during the night. Thought I sounded like a crazy person.

They take a new x-ray and comment on such change in less that four months. Infection. Bone loss. Tooth Reabsorption. (I thought only cats got tooth reabsorption!)

So I'm in bed right now with a seriously swollen face after #19 had to be cut out yesterday. Got a bone graft and stitches and other fun stuff that accompanies all that.

While my mouth is throbbing a bit, I can say that the feeling that I want my tooth pulled has gone away which I'm very thankful for. I am a hillbilly now and will remain that way until I get the implant in 6 months or so.

I brought the tooth pieces home. They are gruesome! There are three pieces: crown, and each root. Figure I'll mount them as jewelry as the little devil cost me 5k total.


Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 02:17pm PT

WHat a drag. I'm so sorry you had to go through all that. Not just the dentistry, but the feeling that you were hurting and nobody was listening. In my opinion, without x-rays or other diagnostics, this is what happened.

1. The tooth was indeed cracked, not just up around the crown, but down deep, vertically along the root.

2. The dentist could not see the fracture because they are often hairline and not in the visible plane of the x-ray beam, being a 2D image of a 3D situation.

3. Though you had a root canal, it never felt right, and even hurt, because the periodontal ligament still has pain and "feeling" fibers, and bacteria can re-infect the site slowly along the fracture line, like a mini highway for bacteria.

4. I ALWAYS suspect a vertical root fracture if somebody has lingering, persistent pain after dental treatment that does not go away and "feels just not quite right."

5. The x-ray finally showed some darkness after the thing finally "blew up" and bacteria and abscess and resorption caused significant bone loss.

6. I may have recommended extraction of that thing long ago, right off the bat, and replacement with an implant, since they are so predictable, good looking, and definitive, but no need for me to Monday morning quarterback here. The thing is, they should have listenedwhen you siad it wasn't right.

7. You might be a hillbilly for a while while the bone graft repairs and an implant integrates, so I'd recommend some Daisy Dukes, pigtails and paint on freckles. Go for the Farmer's Daughter look, you could pull it off.

Say hi to Dave and I hope your episode with this tooth is soon over. E-mail me if you ever have any other issues, and maybe consider another dentist if you have lost some trust with him. Or talk to him and tell him how you feel. Maybe this one was just one of those tough to diagnose situations.

Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
I just had a molar pulled out last Thursday. (in Colombia) Cost nothing at all, just like medical care. Dentist gave me something called diclofenaco, to reduce inflamation and pain. Three 3 ml doses. In Colombia they just give you the syringe and you have to find someone to inject it. Do you have any friends who can inject this? he asks. Not sure if they really want to, can I inject myself? He looks at me funny then agrees, so I get a handful of syringes and ampules, but pretty quickly find a friend who's injected lots of cows on the family farm. Problem solved. That drug worked great, by the way. No narcotic effects and really did eliminate the pain.

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
Thanks Scott - you did indeed call the vertical fracture and need to extract a while back. BTW, I mentioned this possibility to my dentist after you mentioned it but she did not flinch.

Weird thing is that she didn't even recognize the infection/bone loss/reabsorption from the x-ray. Rather she had someone else look at it. I find that a bit scary. I would think even and "ordinary" dentist would know what that looks like. Maybe time for a new regular dentist.

So happy to have that pest out of my head!

The swelling is absolutely spectacular! I look like elephant man. Hope that goes away soon. I have to teach tonight so I'll be scaring people on public transportation and in the classroom. :)

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
Don Paul,
That stuff is made for getting rid of Tapeworms! Stop it now!

Just joking. Its Diclofenac, a fairly effective NSAID, like Motrin, Ibuprofen or Aleve. I think you might get better pain relief from 800 mg of Advil, Motrin or Ibuprofen in tablet form....and you don't have to have a buddy inject you. Which is probably kind of fun for your friends though. I don't want to rob them of the experience, but you may not even need it if you do some warm salt water rinses and keep ice on it for a couple days. Good luck.

Vaya Con Dios!

dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
Hope you get better Crimpie. Thanks for this thread Scott, just noticed it. Very cool of you too offer this to the taco tribe. Now, if we could get a lawyer and physician on here who gives free advice we would be set,lol :-)
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