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wivanoff
Trad climber
CT
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Mar 16, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
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The Stitch Plate should still be on anyone's rack. You can literally do anything with that little sucker. Belay, rap, lower out, bail.
They have far better control than any of the tubular belay devices, which won't lock off if you need to.
And they (non-spring version) are MUCH smoother with two oval carabiners opposite & opposed instead of one screwgate.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 16, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
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The 8 is bulky and limited. Using the small hole to belay sucks, too.
The stitch plate, correctly without the spring as mentioned above, is way better than anything other than things such as the gri-gri. It is a hell of a lot cheaper, but not for sport climbing belays, I admit.
On trad or walls or alpine, you can do anything with those things. Does anyone make them anymore? They really are just as useful as knowing how to tie a prussick knot.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Mar 16, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
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tie a what?
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Mar 17, 2013 - 08:48am PT
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In about 1983 or 4 I can remember climbing a route in the Verdon called Rêve de Fer. As we were rapping down it to the start, there was a French guide coming up it with two clients. I watched his belaying technique with horror. He's simply passed his two ropes through a biner clipped to the belay and was just pulling the rope through it, his clients both climbing at the same time. Right on cue one of his clients fell off. He clamped the ropes below the biner tight with both hands and stopped the fall without too much difficulty, but of course until the person who'd fallen had regained the rock he couldn't do much for the other client who was still climbing... not ideal!
I bought the first of the 'magic plate' belay devices, the NewAlp Magic Plate in I'd say about 1990-ish. It was fantastic as I could belay two seconds at the same time (if I wanted to) and have hands free if I needed it to do other essentials, such as eating, reading the guidebook etc. If one of the seconds fell off I could still belay the other. The only downside was that these things were crap for rapping and you couldn't really belay a leader with it, and you couldn't really give slack with it very easily. This meant that I carried a belay plate (a DMM Betterbrake) as well. So when the Reverso appeared not too long back that could do all these things, I bought one immediately. However after a time the sheer effort of pulling rope through it in 'guide' mode made me abandon it in favour once more of the Magic Plate and Betterbrake.
For sport climbing I always use a Grigri (having abandoned the euro-death-rapid-eight). Having managed to forget to put it in my pack a few times recently I've taken to always carrying an old Sticht plate in the bottom of the pack as an emergency. It's a bit worn but works fine.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Mar 17, 2013 - 09:13am PT
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I have used biner break belays. Also there used to be a brake bar that could be put on the old smooth Ovals.
And yes 8s are just plain turds for standard belay's or rapping. I have used stitch plates but not enough that I ever got a liking for them. Too catchy for me. My personal favorite device has been the later square Lowe tubers. So easy to adjust proper friction and feed on everything from ice floss ropes to static.
Question though. In a pinch if I dropped or forgot a device or deliberately did not take one for weight bulk reasons. I much prefer a munter hitch for belaying or rapping versus a biner break. There are even ways to get bit more friction if needed on rappel by an extra spine wrap below the munter.
Any particular reason to learn the biner break? Vs a Munter? Am I overlooking something?
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mellpat
Big Wall climber
Sweden
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Mar 22, 2013 - 05:54am PT
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A picture of my original Sticht plate, the plate being obtained from Sporthaus Schuster in or about 1969.
The text on it reads "Sticht Seilbremse DBPa / SALEWA made in West Germany". DBPa is short for "patent pending in West Germany".
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2013 - 11:12am PT
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Melpat- Thanks for posting that early plate and background.
Could you show a shot of the back and side even though there is no markings present.
I suspect that yours was cast or die forged rather than machined but I would like to confirm that. There will be a casting mark at the midline if this plate was made that way
A machined version still likely predates the one shown and we might get lucky enough to see one if this thread persists long enough. Then again at 1969 with patent pending this may be the first production model.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 22, 2013 - 11:18am PT
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The 8 is bulky and limited.
It's the other way around.
The stitch plate is the limited one.
If you don't believe me we can go head to head you with the stitch plate and me with the Figure 8.
I will destroy your statement .....
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Mar 22, 2013 - 11:30am PT
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This is the oldest one I have. I believe it predates any double slotted Sticht plates
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mellpat
Big Wall climber
Sweden
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Could you show a shot of the back and side even though there is no markings present.
I suspect that yours was cast or die forged rather than machined but I would like to confirm that. There will be a casting mark at the midline if this plate was made that way
A machined version still likely predates the one shown and we might get lucky enough to see one if this thread persists long enough. Then again at 1969 with patent pending this may be the first production model.
The back is identical with the front but lacks text. Before "Sticht Seilbremse" it says "11 mm" as in the other shown above. The "11 mm" had partly worn away in mine. No casting marks can be seen and if originally cast it appears to have been machined afterwards. It is definitely the first production model in Europe. I know because in those years I got the yearly catalogue from Sporthaus Schuster and I also subscribed to the German magazine "Alpinismus" that held a test of the Sticht plate. Some manufacturer soon afterwards sold a "copy" just consisting of two (for redundancy) circular "rapell rings" taped together and attached to a small holding sling. Perhaps an attempt to circumvent the patent.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Carabiners, belay devices and more (Au Vieux Campeur 1972)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
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Thanks mellpat and Marlow.
Machined it is! No point in casting that shape really but I had to ask about any telltale lines. Once the demand was established, drop forging becomes a cheaper production method.
Can you tell me when Jumars first showed up in the Sporthaus Schuster catalogs if you have a good selection.
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mellpat
Big Wall climber
Sweden
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Can you tell me when Jumars first showed up in the Sporthaus Schuster catalogs if you have a good selection.
Jumars were patented already in 1958 - see http://tinyurl.com/cpv945y
The production model for the first 20 years or so appears to be identical to that shown in the patent. Jumars seems to have been patented in just Austria and Switzerland.
I no longer have the old Schuster catalogs, but I recall that Jumars were used at Eiger Direct (Harlin route) in 1966, the year I started climbing.
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dustyrat
Trad climber
Leeds, West Yorkshire
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dustyrat
Trad climber
Leeds, West Yorkshire
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dustyrat
Trad climber
Leeds, West Yorkshire
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Was shown in brochure and referenced by Steve, way back on second page of this thread
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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The first belay link I saw was (I believe) an MSR/Larry Penberthy device. Joe Herbst used one when we climbed the Nose in '71. I was using a Stitch at the time, he extolled the virtues of his lighter/smaller system.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
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I think it's called a ZABROK! LOL
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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I imagine that the cost and ethical concerns of keeping and feeding a trained belay slave had something to do with the development of belay devices...
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