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JimT
climber
Munich
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Jan 19, 2013 - 03:38am PT
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The Sticht plate was popularised before the HMS, here´s a rough translation of an article about it all. It should be noted that it was written by a German-speaking Swiss from Constance who may not have been completely unbiased in who he thinks has the prior claim!
There are other articles with slightly different views.
"From the mid-60s it was realized from fall tests the need to replace the previously used static (fixed) belay methods by dynamic belaying (with controlled rope slip). At the end of 1967 Franz Ruso,(from Constance in Switzerland), proposed as the "braking carabiner loop" which is identical with modern Munter hitch belay method, but in the heat of the various other developments in rope brakes this was largely forgotten. The Sticht brake became the established method. Today we know that the brake loop (HMS) had been known as such for some time in mountain rescue where it is used for lowering of loads as wounded or material. The difference was Rusos idea to use this braking loop to belay partners in that the free end of the rope in hands of the belayer slides and is held back in the event of a fall by hand strength. It has been found that this belay quite ideally acts dynamically.
At the UIAA meetings in 1971 in Trento and a second time in 1973 Andermatt this belay method was demonstrated by the Italian delegation. It was only at the second congress it was accepted by the Commission and then as the "UIAA belay" recommended. It was the wish of the UIAA to publicise the new belay method without attatching the inventors name.
In some German-speaking countries, the term Munter hitch has prevailed. (Transl.Note: Not in the part of Germany I live in where HMS is the universal term.) At the UIAA meeting in Trento 1971, Werner Munter had shown a new backup method, which he called "karabiner-shoulder protection". He used the already known HMS, but to increase the braking force ran the free end of the rope around the shoulders. This made a dynamic belay impossible."
The article goes on with a discussion over the various claims and publicity particularly from Munters side about who invented what, in the competitive (and somewhat small-minded) world of Swiss and Italian Tirol mountaineering. From a modern point of view its all a bit childish!
Werner Munter is still around and recently retired from the Swiss avalanche laboratory.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jan 19, 2013 - 03:54am PT
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Steve, is it what you have in mind...
The P.A. 77 descendeur hit the market in... 1977
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
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This page from the 1964 Eiger Company catalog shows the descender in question.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
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Does anyone have a Cassin or Clog figure eight bought around 1970 for show?
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wivanoff
Trad climber
CT
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Mar 15, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
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The MSR auto-belayer is the gadget I remember - http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Misc/AnchorBrakePages/AnchorBrake0877.html The web page says it's from the mid-1970s, and I definitely remember it from 1972/1973.
Yeah, I sent that to him in 2007 along with a photocopy of the instructions. I don't think I ever actually used the thing. Also, sent him a red anodized MSR "chainlink" belay plate.
I had used a figure 8 to belay TR on a Goldline. By the time I bought a kernmantel rope I had acquired a Stitch plate without the spring. Used several home made belay plates and a "Betta-Brake" for several years before the ATCs came along.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 15, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
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A Sticht on 9 saves mine.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Mar 15, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
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^^^Looks just like mine Philo, how many times have you had that little "keeper" string get caught up and in the plate with the rope? That's why I got one with the spring.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Mar 15, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
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Steve, here's a pic of a Clog. I used this quite a bit in 77 and probably 75, but I can't nail down when I bought it or where.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Mar 15, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
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Jim T mentions the big Clog fig 8 and McHale's has a photo of it just above this. Here's what the best dressed Brit was wearing in the Dolomites in 1972.
If you take a close look you'll see a bent wire fig 8 attached to his Whillans harness, rope running through it ready to rap or belay (I think...). No idea who made those... Jim?
Edit: Actually I lie, it's not a Whillans, it's a waist belt of some sort:
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
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Hey Dan,
Is the clip hole on your Clog 8 big enough to belay through it with a full diameter (11mm) rope?
I am trying to determine if belay duty was part of the design intent other than using it in reverse rappel mode as a brake.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Mar 15, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
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I don't think it was meant for that. It's difficult to put even a 10.8 loop through that hole. That's much easier to do with the CMI. The rope drags on itself even after it's through the Clog loop. It could be used for that in a pinch though.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
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Thanks Dan!
Somebody out there must have one of the original run of rectangular machined Sticht plates to show.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 15, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
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Things have come a long ways.
The Simond Toucan.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Mar 16, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
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Hey Carlos, that's just like my mate's fig 8.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 16, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
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The Stitch Plate should still be on anyone's rack. You can literally do anything with that little sucker. Belay, rap, lower out, bail.
They have far better control than any of the tubular belay devices, which won't lock off if you need to.
Seriously. They are that useful and they weigh nothing.
Figure 8's always sucked. Anyone who uses them is a moron.
The caribiner brake should also still be taught, although it is hard to do with weird shapes or wire gates.
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carlos gallego
Ice climber
Spain
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Mar 16, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
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Hello, jaaan... yes I saw your photo and remembered my steel figure of eigth.
...another ones...
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 16, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
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Figure 8 is too big and serves no good function. They tend to tangle ropes.
I'm telling you that I've done things with a stitch plate that now takes five devices to do.
Just a piece of metal with an oval cut into it. I've heard that you can use a chain link, but why?
Somebody bring them back and spread the word.
Notice that the figure 8 photos all look unused.
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carlos gallego
Ice climber
Spain
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Mar 16, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
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Hello, BASE104... you are right.
These pieces are of past times... I do not use them since many... many years ago, I just insert photo to see the "collection".
Nowadays there are other devices and, as you say, a plate should be in any rack... even as emergency kit only.
Of course there are modern devices to choose... depending of the climb to take.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Mar 16, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
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You know Base, I've heard lots of folk say that 8s twist the rope, on this side of the pond too. I've never had that experience - or at least they haven't twisted my ropes more than other devices. For years in the 80s and 90s they were used as belay devices in 'rapid mode'. That is with the rope pulled through the big hole then simply clipped through the biner. Thinking back now from the safety of the Grigri I wonder how we ever survived!
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