petroglyph theft eastside


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Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 19, 2012 - 11:56am PT
The eastside is small..Sooner than later , word will leak out and the vandalists will be caught...Don't worry...

Nov 19, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
Looks like the works of some who really knew what they were doing.


I doubt these guys who did this will even try to unload this anywhere near the east side.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 19, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
another avenue for cash
another avenue for ... GREED ... is more like it!!

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 19, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
Kenny T writes:

"No, I wouldn't I would be suprised if this was a person that resorted to this because they couldn't find a job."

No. Dude did it because he's a useless thief, nothing more.

Those 'glyphs have been there practically forever. They were there through every single recession / depression this country has ever seen. They were even there through the Great Depression and the Jimmy Carter Recession ( which was a hell of a lot more severe than what's going on right now ) when there were many more people looking for jobs.

The petroglyphs are gone now because someone is a useless thief with no goddamn morals.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 19, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
As Biotch noted the perps almost surely had pre-sold it as in a high percentage
of art thefts. This sort of desecration is very odd to me in that the buyer
will now have pieces that are rather 'challenging' to display, to say the
least. They would also be virtually impossible to establish a faux provenance
for as opposed to a looted pot or basket. I guess I have to admit the buyer
must be a strangely honed aesthete to want to sit and admire his new pieces
knowing how he came by them. He, almost surely, must also have a perversely
refined circle of friends. But I suppose this is just our American Wild West
version of the nouveau riche Russian oligarch buying a purloined Modigliani.

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 19, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
If they were religious symbols, they have no place on public land.

Maybe the A.C.L.U. did it.

Or these guys:

Lake Tahoe
Nov 19, 2012 - 12:14pm PT
thief ... no goddamn morals

Sort of an oxymoron.

A thief who appears to have morals is just a thief who fears something. Morals require respect for your fellow man and thieves just don't have it.

It's a sad day when someone takes artifacts like that.

Jerry Dodrill

Nov 19, 2012 - 02:14pm PT
This really saddens me. Its hard to know the reasons for the theft, but it reminds me of the work done by "archaeologists" around the world, such as at the Bezeklik Buddha Caves in Xinjing, China. Many of their best frescos were gouged from the walls by European archaeologists and now live in museum collections in Chicago and London.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Nov 19, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
This sort of crime might restrict vehicle access to areas, making it harder to truck equipment in and loot out is a probable solution. I doubt they would want to restrict climbers walk in access, as climbers are the eyes and ears for the authorities.

I do not think climbers would be suspects, unless the high stuff was removed in good style, on lead.

some eastside hovel
Nov 19, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
Just rode out there.It's not the ones I was thinking of.As far as road access,it's already happened at one area.This just really sux.Let's all keep our collective ear open.

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Nov 19, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
1st step in an investigation would be to fiure out what sort of equipment is needed. Possibly it can be traced that could be someone local, but it could be someone from out of the area, in which case it would be harder to trace.

It would be great if the East Side climbing community could help apprehend the culprits, as that might make the BLM feel we are part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
it had to be someone who either is or was a local.

and it's pretty unlikely that it was done on spec-- more likely there was a buyer ahead of time. and yeah, it won't be part of a public exhibit-- more like, headed to a mcmansion near you.

probably multiple perps. at least one generator. the cuts themselves look sort of amateurish. and some of the damage looks gratuitous, like they were just smashing stuff to smash it. so either somebody really local who thinks they have a beef against the paiutes or else just a drunk tweaker.

so someone who either is or was local, who does at least some masonry or stone construction work, who owns or has access to a generator and a cut-off saw, but with some kind of relationship to a collector wealthy enough to want stuff like this for a mcmansion/private collection and who cares enough that he is willing to pay full dollar for the real deal rather than just having someone make copies.

the downside is that it may be someone from around bishop who has since moved off to tahoe or la and did a quick homecoming to source for a tahoe or la sale. but seems like there's also a chance that it was someone stupid enough to be involved in one of those local mcmansions. in which case, we might get lucky and catch the f*#kers.
Jim Hefner

La Verne, CA
Nov 19, 2012 - 05:38pm PT
I got another $1,000 for info leading to a conviction.

Social climber
An Oil Field
Nov 19, 2012 - 05:45pm PT
They need to put hunter's trail cameras around some of the best glyph sites. You know, hide them and they get set off by movement. Cheap. I would guess that the perps will lay low after all of this publicity.

Why would anyone even WANT petroglyphs? Is there a market for them?

The USFWS caught a rancher cutting his fence to let elk out of the Wichita Mountains and on to his land. The state allows Elk hunting on private land here, and those ranchers charge an arm and a leg for access.

So they cut the game fence around the refuge.

They set up some trail cams with video about ten years ago and caught one guy. Right in the middle of it all he pulls out his johnson and takes a piss. He was majorly busted over it.

Trad climber
pike co
Nov 19, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
some of the cuts look like they were made with a diamond chainsaw ---whata mess those googans made--simply WRONG!!!

Nov 19, 2012 - 07:52pm PT
All it takes is a lone tweaker with delusions of grandeur.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 19, 2012 - 07:55pm PT
Hardly a tweaker. There is a firmly established sub-culture of Indian culture
desecrators. A large ring was broken up a year or two ago in Utah.
Despite the guvmint spending millions on them they got off quite lightly.

Social climber
Nov 19, 2012 - 07:57pm PT
May the spirits stolen haunt the choppers and buyers for eternity.

As stated: This is potentially horrible news for bouldering access, be very pro-active towards rangers and BLM people if you see them up there.


Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 19, 2012 - 08:48pm PT
Many of us know Greg Haverstock, the archaeologist in the video, as an accomplished climber himself. It's funny, the other day I was wondering about Greg, no idea what happened to him. It's great seeing Greg in such a rewarding and in this case frustrating and challenging position.

If the stolen pieces are ever recovered I would be pleased to volunteer to help in their proper restoration.

What an awful and stupidly self destructive act for someone to commit...

Social climber
Nov 19, 2012 - 09:08pm PT
hey there say, klk,thanks for sharing...

you know, if the folks looking for this, take the time, and do internet
seaches on what kind of folks would actually go out there to steal this, etc, they most likely will find all kinds reasons that folks want to do it...

that would be the best way to find out... trying learning the
'why' first... then you learn of the type of 'who'...
and onward, it goes...

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