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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Nov 21, 2012 - 11:07am PT
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"I'm willing to bet the perps were some dirtbag locals desperate for cash."
You are kidding, right? That would be a big blow to the already strained relations of the local climbers with the community. I highly doubt it.
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ruppell
climber
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Nov 21, 2012 - 11:40am PT
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Cragman
The point is none of us want to hear talk of it being locals. Do you really think that some rich collector made friends with some local scum then offered some cash for the taking of the glyphs? More likely out of towners. Either way it sucks and the chances of catching these guys is pretty low. Their is a five week window on when the thefts could have occurred according to the Register.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Nov 21, 2012 - 11:54am PT
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I received a reply back from the Access Fund. They are already in communication with Bishop locals, the BLM, and the person who started the indiegogo account.
I can't speak for the Access Fund, but we should be hearing from them very soon after the end of the Holiday weekend about how this is all moving forward.
Stay tuned.
Phyl
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ruppell
climber
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Nov 21, 2012 - 11:56am PT
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Crag
With all the theories floating around right now it could easily be turned into a b grade thriller/horror movie. lol Maybe we should write a screenplay. Get (insert washed up has-beens name here) to star and we could really help out the local economy.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Nov 21, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 21, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
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I've talked to some climbers about contributing, and they brought up an issue I don't know anything about: If no one is caught, what happens to the money? Is it kept forever? does it just get rolled over into some operational account of the organization who has it?
I have no experience with this, so couldn't answer. Anyone know?
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Nov 21, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
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Hire a bounty hunter.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
member since 2002
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Nov 21, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
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More likely out of towners
I hope you are correct, but how would they know where to look?
Even if the culprits aren't found and the money goes to the AF, it still goes to a good cause.
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BCD
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Nov 21, 2012 - 01:05pm PT
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It would be a shame if it turned out to be locals. But if there was any local involvement, that means there's a good chance they'll get caught. It's a small town. Everyone knows everyone. Everyone talks and gossips. Add to that a strained economy, and if there's any local knowledge, someone will certainly snitch for the reward money.
But the sad truth is that it was probably commissioned by a rich collector. And if someone is bold enough to pull off something like this, they've probably done enough underhanded sh#t to know exactly how to cover their bases.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2012 - 01:10pm PT
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it's always locals of some sort. only folks with local knowledge, and a level of comfort, are in a position to do that kind of work. doesn't mean they were all locals-- good chance the contract came from outside.
the last century of serious looting in greece, egypt, mexico and the southwest is largely a story of local insiders grabbing artifacts for sale to wealthy outsiders.
i haven't been to that site since the looting, but the article specifically mentions "generators" and at least one cut fifteen feet off the deck. the details could be incorrect, but the reporting suggests multiple folks at the site. it also suggests a level of damage you wouldn't expect from really skilled professionals.
not like pothunting is a new activity on the eastside or elsewhere. this case involved a former dwp employee who live sin the area:
http://www.inyoregister.com/node/1464
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Nov 21, 2012 - 02:16pm PT
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Why would you need a generator if you're doing the damage with a cutoff saw? They don't make 'em in electric models.
Once the cuts are made, it's a matter of chiseling off the art in question.
How do generators play into this? I know they were mentioned, but it doesn't add up.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
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How do generators play into this? I know they were mentioned, but it doesn't add up.
don't know for sure-- it could just be a mistake. early reporting, especially, is often squishy on detail. but a portable generator would've left tracks in the sand, so blm may well be confident about that detail.
but i'm glad to see folks are responding so quickly to this.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Nov 21, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
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I was thinking tracks as well. But a 6k watt generator fits into 1/4 of your trucks bed (or the back of your Subaru for that matter). No need to tow.
The only thing I can think of is using a generator to run air chisels off of a compressor. But that doesn't add up. It may save time but adds a steady drone to the surrounding area that carries for quite a ways.
Cutoff saws are really loud, but they are portable and easily hidden. Not so much with a generator.
I'd make a great thief.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nov 21, 2012 - 02:57pm PT
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I just heard a lengthy report about this on nationwide satellite radio. It's big news now.
This is beyond my ability to comprehend. As Werner might say...
Stupid Humans.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 21, 2012 - 03:35pm PT
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From a mile away nobody would think a gas cutoff saw any different from
dueling dirtbikes. Besides, with a fresh blade that soft rock would only
take a few minutes.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 21, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
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Definitely the typical gasoline-powered 2-cycle circular cut-off saws we use in construction throughout the world. There are also special chain saws that are set up to cut stone too but they are more exotic and therefore less likely here. They have a wider kerf also.
If noise was a consideration, you just rig a muffler on the exhaust of any of these tools and get a very quiet machine. There were no generators nor hydraulic centers in this event. Just very simple tools and what is done everywhere in such work. These saws typically take 14" or 16" diameter dry-operated diamond blades and are terrifically quick and not hard to handle. They cost upwards of $800-$1100. They don't weigh much either and can be hiked in without much trouble. The bigger ones weight around 28 lbs dry.
Such a trashy event. It makes one rue the sharing of any secret places. I can't imagine that these crooks will be caught unless they get nabbed for something else, like drugs or other lame issues. My fantasy is these petroglyphs are going into a construction project, a private dwelling, but of course I haven't any real clue.
cutting frozen tundra:
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Gene
climber
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Nov 21, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
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Here’s what I can’t figure. Regardless if this theft/desecration was a contract job or done on speculation, what possible jollies can the buyer get? I just don’t get it. Maybe I’m naïve about this stuff, but WTF? The ‘consumer’ can’t show it. Can’t sell it. Can’t brag about it. In spite of being repugnant on all levels, every aspect of it is on the wrong side of the risk-to-reward equation. Someone please explain to me why anyone would do or even contemplate doing something like this. Dumbfounded.
g
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 21, 2012 - 05:02pm PT
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A lot of work for rock, when out of its original environment has little value. Can not imagine anyone wanting this stuff after the publicity it has generated.
Could well be really dumb tweakers who thought these would be worth a fortune. They may well show up in an abandoned storage locker eventually.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
SLO, Ca
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Nov 21, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
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I think the idea of a secret rich collector is a little far fetched. Sounds more like some tweakers with a saw and a come-along.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 21, 2012 - 11:37pm PT
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It's interesting to hear the speculation about the best tool for the job.
I don't think they used the best tool, from the BLM description. I think they made due with the tools they owned.
After all, would you go out and spend a thou on a tool you have no other need for, which potentially makes you traceable, and which you may have no skills with? Or do you "get by" with what you've got? I think the criminal mind works more in the latter way.....
Or, they bought the cheapest thing that might do the job......
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