Trouble on Mt Rubidoux

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Messages 1 - 16 of total 16 in this topic
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 15, 2012 - 01:11pm PT
It seems someone is planning to sue to tear down the cross. However, the Christians are ready to fight and someone has the idea of selling a portion of the land.

http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/riverside/riverside-headlines-index/20121109-riverside-mount-rubidoux-cross-may-be-sold-to-avoid-lawsuit.ece

Here is a petition to block the sale of the land: http://www.change.org/petitions/save-mt-rubidoux?fb_action_ids=10152277071635437%2C10152276512945437%2C10152276428855437%2C10152275956210437%2C10152275856290437&fb_action_types=change-org%3Arecruit&fb_ref=__KVNvXmBFaf&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210152277071635437%22%3A487002404674906%2C%2210152276512945437%22%3A487002404674906%2C%2210152276428855437%22%3A487002404674906%2C%2210152275956210437%22%3A487002404674906%2C%2210152275856290437%22%3A487002404674906%2C%2210152275820765437%22%3A487002404674906%2C%2210152275782325437%22%3A487002404674906%2C%2210152275766240437%22%3A487002404674906%2C%2210152275765425437%22%3A487002404674906%7D


I personally am opposed to this big cross and all the other big crosses on mountain tops around the world. However, tearing it down by force of lawsuit is expensive and profoundly upsetting to a bunch of people. Better to ban new crosses and let the old deteriorate. Selling the land under the cross in this case is not a good solution since that land belongs to you and I and I don't want to sell my share of it.


Rubidoux climbers should be concerned since some nice rocks could get fenced off.
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
^^^^^^

it should be preserved for its "historic value"



or replaced with a Crescent and Star...libs tend to not harass Muslims




-
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
The proposal is to sell 0.43 of an acre that the cross sits on.

That's a 136' X 136' square piece.

The lawsuit is stupid, but so is the petition.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
What's wrong with simply leaving the goddamn cross alone? What's it hurting?
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
The Access Fund should buy the whole park.

Then the climbing community can decide what to do.

We can have a perpetual argument about whether the cross should stay or go.

Who wants to start the thread?
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
"goddamn cross"
strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
I'm surprised the cross is still there. figured a bunch of riverside meth heads would have taken it and sold it for scrap years ago.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
^^^^
Yeah, that was a good catch.

I suspect the lawsuit will ultimately go nowhere, depending on how hard they respond to it. There's pretty good precedent for displays on that nature being accepted as "tradition", even if on an objective basis it might violate the Establishment Clause. They invoke Congress' new term with a prayer from a minister, which is accepted as a tradition exception. Here in Santa Monica they permit a Nativity display on the bluffs for the same reason--they've been doing it for so long that it's part of the city's traditional holiday display.

Also, on a more practical level, it's pretty easy to keep a nativity scene in storage. A lot harder to tear down a 40' cross. I doubt the plaintiffs are offering to cover that expense.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
Why, exactly, are they wanting to sell Rubidoux? Whose idea is that and who get the dough? And how much? And will public access be denied?
JL

stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
Kind of pathetic. I'm pretty much an atheist, and strongly in favor of separation of church and state. But something that was first erected more than 100 years ago and that isn't regularly used in any kind of civil function should be left alone.
neversummer

Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
What a bunch of tards....leave the history alone.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Nov 15, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
Why, exactly, are they wanting to sell Rubidoux? Whose idea is that and who get the dough? And how much? And will public access be denied?

From what I can tell in the article it's the city's way of avoiding the controversy. Not their land, not their problem.

The city will get the dough. How much? Depends upon the outcome of the auction.

Public access denied? Possibly, but I would hope the city could attach some sort of easement to the sale.

Hopefully this whole thing will blow over. Although I'm an ACLU supporter and a strong believer in separation of church and state, I don't think this particular cross rises to the level of a genuine civil liberties issue. There are bigger fish to fry.
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Nov 15, 2012 - 05:02pm PT
See what a couple of ex-commie ACLU lawyers can do with a lot of time on their hands and feeling their oats since the election (jackasses really like oats) .

Credit: Donald Thompson
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 15, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
Be aware that signing a petition at change dot org will auto-create an account with them. They will then spam you with other petitions to sign. In order to stop the spam you have to go through their registration process (even though they auto-created the account) and then hunt down the obfuscated screen to delete your account. Really sleazy.

As an aside, Spider, could you please linkify that absurdly long url so it doesn't make the page 30" wide? ;-)
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
Yeah, Sorry about that link. I tried the "share" link but it was crap.

True that you'll get requests to sign other petitions. I signed someone's from Colorado on here a couple of months ago. I get one every two weeks or so. You can unsubscribe.

I barely care about this but I thought those who climb there regularly might. A friend of mine is circulating the petition. He feels very strongly about keeping the land public.

http://mountainproject.com/v/mount-rubidoux/105924088
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 15, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
Were talking a patch here smaller than many residential lots.

A 77' radius around the cross.

I don't think that would even encompass the Candlesticks.

Even if it did, what are they going to do, put a fence around it?


Tempest in a teapot.
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