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other
Trad climber
LA, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 15, 2012 - 02:11am PT
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What's the update on williamson rock access? There's been no word from troy Mayr/friends of williamson, access fund or USFS. Williamson was a major so cal sportclimbing destination up to seven yrs ago when it was closed for wildlife protection despite there being no scientific reason to do so.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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It seems the frogs are thriving, perhaps its time to re-open Williamson?
Never going to happen....... you see now its the center of frog universe.
The sad fact is this..... the pools where these critters live is about 50 yards mim from the nearest climbs. You don't need to go close to the pools
on the approch. All they needed to do was rope off the pools, notify you not to come anywhere near the pools and the froggies would have been fine.
But that is not how our government works.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Forward this information to this Jimmy Carter appointee.
Northern California U.S. District Court Judge
Marilyn Hall Patel
She closed Williamson under threat of lawsuit brought by the Center For Biological Diversity.
Their teams of lawyers clog our judicial system with lawsuits not meant to win, but to cost government agencies so much money to defend, they would rather bow to these manipulators of our democracy than to defend it.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/index.html
The CBD caused the closure of Williamson Rock, period.
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middle joe
Trad climber
OC
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Unless you've got a couple hundred grand to hire a bulldog attorney, don't ever expect to climb there again.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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The bulldog attorney ought to be supplied by the Access Fund, provided they think they can win the case. You might also want to see if you can rustle up that $200K from private capital. There must be enough people down in SoCal that are angry about this closure that one among them also has deep pockets. You want an attorney who makes it his personal business to return again and again to the case like a great white returning to a bleeding seal. They'll never be able to get rid of him. Good luck!
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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You don't think maybe, if a few thousand people send a e-mail to the Forest Supervisor and local politicians, as well as Senators Boxer and Feinstein...that something might happen.
The USFS is the one who issued the closure order, so they can lift it.
Btw the closure order expires at the end of this month, at which point the Forest Supervisor has to reissue it, or not.
With all the new evidence that the frog is doing well, and fungus was the problem, not people, plus the order expiring...this would be a good time to speak up!
Where is the Access Fund or FOWR??? Did they just give up completely?
Someone needs to start a petition and e-mail letter to copy and paste, and post it on all climbing websites.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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The USFS is the one who issued the closure order, so they can lift it. This was true in '05 but since the ruling by Judge Patel in July of this year, it no longer stands.
I've spent countless hours on this issue. Collecting emails, endless phone calls to officials, coordinating letter writing campaigns and 2 seperate meetings with local Congressman Buck McKeon's office which included members of the USFS, FSW, Access Fund and FoWR (1st meeting).
The Lawsuit brought by the CBD either convinced Judge Patel she was doing good by closing Williamson or bullied her into making the decision. I hope it wasn't the latter of the two but, that is the CBD's modus operandi.
When I have time I will continue the fight but it will take more than a few hundred emails to change this situation.
Judge Patel needs to know what is really happening here and how the CBD is manipulating the 'system' for their own special interests.
There are members of the CBD on this forum.
Anyone that really cares and wants to get involved can do their home-work first and start a letter writing campaign to inform the Northern Judge of the facts. I will help with any information I can provide or in any way I can.
The USFS may be allowed to open Williamson again in two or three years but it will be on a very restrictive basis and will continue to be prone to closures.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Dude. If you are low-key you can go climb that choss pile any time you want.
LOW - KEY doesn't go with the "sport" crowd. They gotta make it a "scene."
Plenty of other rocks in the forest too.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Not a good idea Spider.
Disobeying this order carries a maximum 5yr imprisonment and/or $10k fine.
There are other places to climb in the ANF, it just sucks to have a special interest group dictate when and where we recreate.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Stupid frogs, crazy frog people. Meh.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I'm just curious.
The last time I looked around up there, a few months ago, there were no postings about a closure anywhere. I did not go climbing but I looked around. No signs at the parking area. No signs at the trail head or on the approach. No indication anywhere of a closure. I did not go all the way down to the crag but the signs used to be all over the place.
So.
If a climber comes in from out of the area, goes to REI and buys a copy of SoCal Sport Climbs and heads up to Williamson and has a great day climbing have they committed a crime?
Fill me in Pud. No signs? Is it really still closed? How can they enforce a closure which is not posted publicly?
edit: comparing tunnel crags to Willie is a joke.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Hey MisterE why edit your post. Just jump in and agree. You know I'm right and I didn't mean to imply that you feel otherwise. Tunnel is Tunnel. Willie is Willie. Sorry if I came off too harsh. Just a reflection of how pissed I am about this whole deal.
Another question for "those in the know who for all these years have said don't dare confront authority here."
Where has the Access Fund been on what should be a top tier issue - a major sport climbing crag near one of the largest urban areas in the country? I've asked this question many, many times over the last decade and the response is dead silence. Or worse; "don't stir the pot, we've got this covered."
Seriously Pud, explain what is going on or get out of the way. Maybe it's time for the next team.
edit: Maybe Pud is not who I think he is and I'm barking up the wrong tree. Sorry if that's the case. I am just so frustrated by this raw deal. I know I am not alone.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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ACSD has gone to bat on this issue, and has made some headway on the issue. There are no promises, and it'll most likely take years, but the area may be reopened with the exception of the walls down in the creek bed. We don't have another meeting until the end of January, but if I remember I'll try to get an update on the issue and post a quick summary here.
Josh
Edit: Sierra Club is as bad as the CBD down here in San Diego.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Sorry Kris - I wasn't comparing - just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I loved Williamson, climbed there on my way to Josh one year before it closed.
Not from around here, and skeerd of the repercussions of my local intrusion... this is from personal experience.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Ksolem,
I've been fighting this issue since the beginning.
I climbed at Williamson every month, for many years.
Like I said in the earlier post. I've spent countless hours fighting this issue.
I've used my company staff and resources to research, call, investigate every angle of the closure. Paying them their regular salary all the while.
I've fought this issue loud and clear. I spent days and weeks trying to get ST, Mountain Prboj, RC.com... everyone to scream loud about this unfair closure. Many people sent meaningful emails.
I presented these emails along with reasons to open Williamson to the people responsible for the closure at Buck McKeon's office after organizing the meetings. Jesse Bennett of FWS attended the last one ( along with USFS, AF, and McKeon's staff) and agreed Williamson should not be closed.
Everything I've done has been loud and clear and I try and get all the support I can to show we are a united front.
All the information is out there for those that are willing to take the time to research but, get ready to spend a lot of you time doing this.
If you think I'm in the way and you'd like to take over, I'll send you transcripts of my files. There are a few boxes so can we split the shipping costs?
Edit: If ANF re-issues the closure on 12/31/12 (it will), I am scheduling another meeting at McKeon's office with his staff, the USFS, AF, FWS and FoWR (if they want to attend).
Any support I can get here is appreciated.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Even though there may not be any signs isn't there that old "ignorance of
the law" thing they could still string you up on?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Yes, any judge will tell you , ignorance of the law is not a defense.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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From what I hear, Troy has lost interest. Not sure he even climbs much anymore. I know he is into mountain biking now.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Not suprising.
The bigger issue here is how an organized group manipulated the system and obtained their objective of closing public land.
This is wrong, and it is the reason I continue to fight.
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