Do you get the flu vaccine every year?

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bergbryce

Trad climber

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Jan 13, 2014 - 03:02pm PT

Flu rates up here are very high and make last year look like a cakewalk.

The people dying in the Northern Cal hospitals are being killed by H1N1 which was in this years vaccine. Getting vaccinated doesn't mean you'll not get sick, but it can certainly help.

“This year, the flu is affecting people who are seemingly normal,” said Dr. David Herbert, the chief of infectious diseases at Kaiser Permanente in Sacramento. “They’re not old. They’re middle aged. They don’t have chronic health problems.”

Herbert, who leads Kaiser’s intensive care unit on Morse Avenue in Sacramento, is urging people to get the flu vaccine. He said this hospital alone currently has several people on life support either from pneumonia or the flu. And none of those had received the flu vaccine before becoming ill, he said.

Read more: http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-sacramento/norcal-flu-deaths-increase-some-on-life-support-and-in-intensive-care/-/12969376/23839720/-/foqnj5z/-/index.html#ixzz2qJKCYMpy

Don't get it? Darwin wins, but Darwin wins slowly over time.

DesertRatExpeditions

Trad climber

Flagstaff, Arizona

Jan 13, 2014 - 03:13pm PT

Yeah, we get that. Do you also dismiss global warming? Yeah, we also get
that some 'science types' dismiss that, also. Well, as with global warming
the VAST MAJORITY of actual experts agree that the flu vaccine is nearly
completely safe and effective enough to warrant its usage. But maybe you
should take a statistics course to read up further in lieu of believing those
so-called 'experts' at the Center For Disease Control or the Jonas Salk Institute.

I do not dismiss Global Warming. While there is a lot of rather questionable science related to global warming, there is also quite a lot of very sound science supporting it as well, with no reputable work to the contrary. Vaccinations do not have this same amount of support. While I would really enjoy it if all doctor's were experts in every field of medicine, and that all immunologists questioned research a little more, that is not the current standard. Most MDs, not all, spend less than 5 minutes with their patients, at least most of the ones I have been to. Of course they assume they know what's wrong with you before you even open your mouth. It only makes sense that they would carry this same lack of care into keeping up with research. As I mentioned, I have read quite a lot of papers over the years. Most support vaccinations, but there are also a few that don't, and I'm sorry to say, I do not trust the CDC, nor most other governmental or corporately funded 'science' organizations. I have experienced first hand how data can be skewed by preconceived notions, even when it is just caused by a superior within a reputable organization. I want to reiterate that I am not anti-vaccine, but I have not seen enough reputable sources of research to skew my decision, especially considering I feel I tend to be healthier than most people that do get vaccinated. Maybe some of the MDs out there could post up some of their recent research finds. I would also point out that known, sound science is proven wrong pretty routinely. I think the 'Heart Healthy' diet of 10 years ago is a good example of this. Cell phone use is another. DDT is yet another. In fact I seem to remember the commercial of the little girl in the field getting sprayed by DDT remarking how safe it was, yet now we know it causes Hodgkin's Lymphoma and of course the shell defects in our national bird. I won't even bother to make more than a remark about tobacco.

What this boils down to, is that I have not spent the time to investigate enough to make a decision. When it comes to really matter, I will spend the time and collect sources and keep track of what and where and finally make a conclusion. There are way too many diseases out there for which the mechanisms of cause are not understood, to somewhat blindly make decisions such as this.

PS I have taken college level statistics, numerical methods, graduate level Data & Error analysis and use statistical analysis in my vocation.

Didn't look at the data, but I thought the negative percentage was of interest. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2013/01/studies-flu-vaccine-effectiveness-waned-over-2011-12-season

Bruce Morris

Social climber

Belmont, California

Jan 13, 2014 - 03:22pm PT

I got a flu shot this year and came down with what seemed to match the symptoms and etiology of swine flu c. mid-December. Correlated quite nicely with a big dip in the temperatures around the Bay, which I've heard tends to activate the swine flu virus. However, I did weather it quite well and self-healed without a doctor visit or a midnight dash to ER. Unlike some people I know who weren't vaccinated. It might well be that if you do get vaccinated, even if you do catch the flu, your symptoms will be significantly less than without being vaccinated. Gray area subject to endless debate.

Being a good medical citizen, I went out and got vaccinated at Kaiser for pneumonia and tetanus a couple weeks back and did notice some mild symptoms for two days afterwards: slight runny nose and some dull aches and pains. Maybe a slight fever one morning too. Okay now. Sounds like it does take a little while for you to develop the antibodies in reaction to the dead viruses in the vaccines though. Of course, I feel pretty crappy all the time anyway.

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

Jan 13, 2014 - 09:03pm PT

DesertRat...I'm trying not to make this sound too harsh, but for someone who claims to be pretty science oriented, you're not making much sense.

The science behind vaccinations is very well understood. And the effect of that science has been very visible. Smallpox is gone. Polio and tuberculosis are basically gone, except in the 3rd world. If you are bitten by an animal with rabies and get the vaccine, you'll probably be fine. If you don't, you die, basically 100% of the time.

The flu vaccine doesn't work quite as well, largely because there are many different viruses that cause influenza, and the folks making the vaccine don't always guess right.

Your personal experience has exactly zero relevance to whether the science around vaccinations and their actual effectiveness is good and real. Maybe you just have a strong immune system. Or maybe you're just a good troll.

And while I'm not a clinician, I do have a lot of background in this as I manage a set of healthcare data software products, that measure, among other things, vaccinations.

DesertRatExpeditions

Trad climber

Flagstaff, Arizona

Jan 13, 2014 - 10:49pm PT

Other than making a note of my situation I am not using it to convince anyone else not to vaccinate. Beyond that, I don't have access to the data that you do, or to enough credible journal articles to contradict the opposing hypothesis. I find plenty of articles that look at vaccinations vs. encephalopathy and autism and 70% (est) come to the conclusion that there is no link, yet awards against vaccine producers are still given to families with autistic children. While I know they are just covering their bases, even the risks listed on the sheet for the MMR vaccine on the FDA's website lists autism as a risk.

What is obvious to me is that when Dr. Wakefield published his original paper, he was slandered and pretty much lost everything, even though independent researchers have come back and confirmed his data.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I never was. My post was an answer to the OP question and I gave the information I gave as a skeptic. Let's not forget that science is based on skepticism.

Anecdotally, among my peers who have children with autism, a majority (again not all, 2 fathers off hand that I can think of, a third says his son exhibited symptoms before the MMR vaccine) say that their symptoms corresponded directly to when they received their MMR vaccine. Some say it was within 10 hours, some within a week. If you look at the data reported (as required by law)of MMR vs Date of Onset symptoms, there seems to be strong support for the anecdotal evidence.

Nothing will be accomplished by insinuating that I do not know what science is, or that I may be a troll. Maybe vaccines are 100% safe (although I don't think that anyone would ever agree with this), but I am skeptical and have yet to see enough evidence to subside my skepticism.

I work very hard at keeping myself open minded enough to question accepted theories. We live in a world that we think we have a complete grasp on, but our theories and truths are proved wrong every day. Don't let me sway you into believing anything you don't want to, but I would say if you want to think of yourself as a scientist, you should question everything you believe.

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.”

William James

Jeremy B.

climber

Northern California

Jan 14, 2014 - 02:13am PT

I would also point out that known, sound science is proven wrong pretty routinely. I think the 'Heart Healthy' diet of 10 years ago is a good example of this.

Not particularly; it's more a case of taking poor or inconclusive evidence and running it through a game of telephone where the players have strong political (financial) or emotional (do it for the children!) pressure to present a simplified, settled message. Dietary recommendations thus have little connection to the underlying science, which has been relatively consistent in what it showed (or rather, didn't show).

// Yep, I generally vaccinate each year.

DesertRatExpeditions

Trad climber

Flagstaff, Arizona

Jan 14, 2014 - 10:34am PT

You're not trying to convince anyone of anything? Then why write a tome about it?

I'd hardly call 8 sentences a tome.

The rest of my posts have been to defend my skepticism.

Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer; there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.

George Santayana

Think whatever you want. I am not criticizing your steadfastness, I am merely stating my skepticism.

I'm going climbing.

SCseagoat

Trad climber

Santa Cruz

Jan 14, 2014 - 10:42am PT

I don't get the vaccine either. Not because I'm opposed to vaccines, just horribly needle phobic. however I read that Santa Cruz County has confirmed 2 deaths (males under 50). They don't keep flu death stats on people over 65….what's up with that!!!! Age discrimination. Death panels…I know it, I just know it.

Susan

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Jan 14, 2014 - 11:39am PT

I find plenty of articles that look at vaccinations vs. encephalopathy and autism and 70% (est) come to the conclusion that there is no link,

Actually, it's 100% show no cause and effect.

A link is not meaningful. You have a cup of coffee this morning, and get hit by a car this afternoon. Research shows that is common....there is a link.

Is there a cause and effect? No.

Is the link meaningful in any way in which a person should live their life? No.

What is obvious to me is that when Dr. Wakefield published his original paper, he was slandered and pretty much lost everything, even though independent researchers have come back and confirmed his data.

Sorry, but you are 100% wrong in that statement. How could anybody confirm his data, when he made it up? It was in NOT being able to confirm his data by which he was uncovered. In my opinion, he is a mass murderer.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jan 14, 2014 - 11:54am PT

You have a cup of coffee this morning, and get hit by a car this afternoon. Research shows that is common....there is a link. Is there a cause and effect? No.

Now, Ken, I am disappointed. Your usually sage advice has gone bad on this.
If you get all jacked up on caffeine then all manner of bad things could happen. ;-]