Do you get the flu vaccine every year?

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roadman

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 14, 2012 - 03:26pm PT
Just wondering if climbers out there are following the recommendation of the US CDC and Canada's Health agency?

If not, why?

If so, thanks!
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Nov 14, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
No, never, don't ever get sick.
roadman

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2012 - 03:31pm PT
How many people have you gotten sick?

Sorry, the scientist in me made me ask...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 14, 2012 - 03:42pm PT
If not, why?

Is that a rhetorical question? Aside from those of us smart enought to get
the flu shot I'm sure those others never listened to their moms' orders not
to run with sharpened pencils or scissors.
eKat

Trad climber
BackInTheDitch BackInTheDirt BackInTheDay
Nov 14, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
Never!

One month of the Wellness Formula between Thanksgiving and Christmas hasn't let me down in well over 20 years.

YAY!

I used to get the Mammoth Crud during early season training - when all the new employees spread their slime. . . then I learned about the Wellness Formula from a brilliant gal at the healtfood store and. . . the Crud and all its buddies were history!
Norte_Caroliña_Climber

Gym climber
BigWall Baller From the Holler
Nov 14, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
No sir. Don't believe in em.
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Nov 14, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
No, neither of us do. Why? Because we're (thank the powers that be) healthy, we are not elderly, we have never gotten the shots before and rarely, if ever, get the flu (knocking on wood). So am I superstitious? Maybe a bit! : ) Plus our doctors agree that we don't need the shot at this point.

Now, if you have an autoimmune disease or are otherwise comprimised in your health, perhaps you should get the flu shot. If you travel a lot especially overseas, perhaps you should get the shot. It's probably recommended for people with small children. It really depends on your personal situation and your health - best to discuss with your own doctor to see if you really should get it.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Nov 14, 2012 - 04:04pm PT
Never got a flu shot or the flu in 48 years. I never get sick (except Dengue) and assume its because of my regular exercise. My diet consists of crap like fried chicken and bags of doritos but I don't have high colesteral, high blood pressure, or any other problem I know of. I also don't need more than 6 hours sleep. I attribute all of it to a regular workout routine that I've had for years.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Nov 14, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
Never had a flu shot. Won't ever have one. I believe that, for starters, it's somewhat of a false premise - as I understand it, the shot has in it flu strains "they " think will "be going around" for the given "flu season".

So what if something new comes up ?

I had a mild case of the H1N1 a few years ago - caught it in hospital while there with my husband ( on unrelated reasons ) . He caught it too.

Other then that, I get a few colds and G-I tract stuff every now & then.

I am not a believer of gov't propaganda for the most part. But it is hard deciphering the bs from the cream.

SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Nov 14, 2012 - 04:51pm PT
No. Well once. When on chemo my oncologist made me have it. I've never had the flu and have no interest in getting the shot.


Susan
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Nov 14, 2012 - 05:29pm PT
No, because I was raised on the titty.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 14, 2012 - 05:31pm PT
Definitely as I'm prone to respiratory problems but would regardless.

Yes, it's a 'best guess' of what strains may appear this season and until we have a universal vaccine that's the best that we can do. If you're old you actually have a better chance of fighting off a really bad flu strain; it's the young with highly reactive immune systems who have the tough go.

The vaccine insanity is just that - complete anti-science hysteria. Might as well be trying to get the moon out of the pond with pitchforks. If only they had a vaccine against ignorance and stupidity.
rrider

climber
Mckinleyville, Ca
Nov 14, 2012 - 05:36pm PT
__ck No!

Because my Neanderthal ancestors didn't need it either.
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
Nov 14, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
No.

But two winters ago, in January, I did get the flu (for the first time in like 15 years). HO MAN. It was bad. Seems like flu strains have gone the way of pot strains. STRONG.

I was completely incapacitated for like 72 hours. I basically couldn't even get out of bed to get a glass of water, I was so sick and weak. Full recovery took 10-12 days. If I were old, I probably would actually have died.


crøtch

climber
Nov 14, 2012 - 05:54pm PT
No. I don't work or live with infants or seniors. I'm middle aged and healthy, haven't missed more than a day or two of work for illness in a decade and would rather let my immune system handle what's out there so that I build up my memory cell repertoire.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 14, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
Sometimes, like this year, when I don't flake.


__ck No!

Because my Neanderthal ancestors didn't need it either.


Your Neanderthal ancestors didn't need it because the flu virus had not evolved to infect people. That happened in the last few thousand years when humans domesticated pigs and other animals that carried the ancestors to the modern flu virus, and the close association between humans and these animals enabled the flu ancestor to jump from animals to people.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Nov 14, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
I work in the ER and swab kids noses nearly every shift that come back positive for some strain of the flu. This year I did, primarily because it was somewhat mandated by my employer. You had an option though, get the shot or wear a mask from November to April.

I agree that general health and a strong immune system are probably the best defenses and I've not been a proponent of flu shots in the past, although my opinion has changed since I am working in health care now.

Several years ago I was spouting a lot of the same reasons already mentioned by other posters here in this thread, for not getting a flu shot to a friend of mine who works for the CDC. She said that if I ever got what actually is considered the flu and experienced the 72 hours or so of pure hell associated with it, that I would be likely to get one in the future. According to her a lot of people consider things that aren't the flu to be the flu. Apparently the actual influenza is terrible and will make you want to get a shot in the future. It's not just some nausea and vomiting, it's much worse and all body encompassing.
Hmmm.... lets hear some stories!!
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Nov 14, 2012 - 10:37pm PT
No, I never do...
Brian

climber
California
Nov 14, 2012 - 10:39pm PT
Never got a flu shot until, in my mid to late 30s I actually got the flu. I mean, I'd been sick a few times before growing up, but I'm generally pretty damn healthy (malaria and other crazy traveling shite aside).

In any case, oh man, did the flu suck. I think in retrospect that it was actually the first time I'd ever gotten the flu, cause it made me really sick. I thought I was gonna die (not really, of course, but it sure felt like it--my fecking hair hurt!). After that experience, I get the flu shot each year. Cheap and easy and I don't need to worry about that shite anymore.

Yes, they can can be off in their predictions of flu mutations and you can get sick, but you might get some partial immunity.

As someone above said, if you really get the flu, a real hard core flu, you'll reconsider that shot. YMMV.

Brian
Nohea

Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
Nov 14, 2012 - 10:57pm PT
No I dont but I have always said I am a walking antibody. Also I give a pint of blood every 8 weeks or so and I remember the literature saying you have to wait for some period if you get a vaccince. Since many get the flu but only 2% donate blood, I'll stick with being a 2%er!
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Nov 14, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
It's free at Kaiser and I'm a member, so I do get one each year. Notice some upper respiratory symptoms 3 to 5 days later. Stopped having colds a few years ago. Guess I got out of the habit? Never had flu after getting a shot though.
john hansen

climber
Nov 14, 2012 - 11:16pm PT
No hair,,, oops,, I mean Nohea. I have only had the flu once since moving to the Big Island 24 years ago. Good air we get out here...

I called the emergency room when my temp hit 103 and asked if I should come in. That was after a hard day at work . i think I still had a couple beers that night.

Aloha
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Nov 14, 2012 - 11:19pm PT
As a prime opportunity awaits



----please let me remind those of your not getting


Flu Shots!




Yer'e gonna Die!

I have suffered a flu shot (free with my Blue Cross Obama-Care Insurance,) every year for the last 10 or so, and I am:

obviously and obnoxiously


Alive!



On the other hand! Donald Thompson! Please continue to boycot those evil Obama-care Flu Shots!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 14, 2012 - 11:20pm PT
I stopped getting the flu when i started drinking bong water...RJ
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:14am PT
no
1) evolution is a lie propagated by the liberal media, and i've had the flu once...
2) i prefer to be a silent carrier, and help weed out the meek...
locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:26am PT

This year I did because last year I got so fuking sick I was down for the count for 16 days, lost a large amount of weight, almost got 911'd by,
Dr Mary Fists Mealot...


EDITED:

So I guess my answer is NO...

Not every year...

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:38am PT
I always knew that most climbers were paranoid schizos without the ability
to do a simple cost/benefit analysis:

Downside: yer out $10 and an hour
Upside: You are almost completely assured of not getting the flu.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:59am PT
yes
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:06am PT
No cause I'm lazy and cheap and don't think about it.

Hmm those add up to Idiot ..

Well not the first time I've been guilty of that I suppose.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:11am PT
It's odd to hear how many folks think they are somehow 'acquiring' or developing specific flu antibodies by some process other than a vaccine or actually getting a given flu. As bewildering is the implication that being 'healthy' means your immune system has more than a nominal defense against a novel flu strain. If a novel strain of flu comes along a real 'healthy' immune system is the last thing on the planet you want.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:31am PT
Naw, I love a good flu now and then. It really puts things into perspective.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:34am PT
nobody expects the Spanish Influenza

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

3% of the human population died... 30% got it....
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:58am PT
never had never will
new world order2

climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 06:21am PT
Fck no! That shite is poison.

What is with the recent push by government and health officials to vaccinate us....against everything? A child today, by age 13, has received some 25 vaccinations. Freakin' nonsense. No wonder autism is going thru the roof. Our children are being poisoned.

As bewildering is the implication that being 'healthy' means your immune system has more than a nominal defense against a novel flu strain. If a novel strain of flu comes along a real 'healthy' immune system is the last thing on the planet you want.

^^^ Huh? WTF? So, wanting a healthy immune system is the last thing I would want to fight a novel strain of flu?

Not at all surprising healyje and Ed are big advocates of vaccinations. They are, The Man. They would love nothing more than to see all vaccinations mandatory, GMO food pushed down our throats, fluoride in our drinking water, and every one of us implanted with RFIDs.

healyje, Ed, where will you your RFID implant? Please answer.





Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Nov 15, 2012 - 08:06am PT
I have had some strain of flu or a influenza-like illness, that I picked up as a teacher, from kids in the classroom. 2 times; oddly right before Christmas. I would miss the last week of school prior to the holidays and not really gain all of my strength back until a few days prior to the end of the holidays. The little body snatchers made me a real grinch.

I was a good target for the invasion due to a weakened immune system from stress and lack of sleep.

However an internal debate goes on whether or not to change my policy. I have developed asthma; seemingly overnight. Asthma greatly increases the risk of the flu; but I have also reduced my chances by removing myself from the schoolhouse. About the biggest crowd I face now is at a traffic light.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 15, 2012 - 09:13am PT
Yep, every year. And every year, it seems, I talk with some very sick people who wish they'd gotten one too.
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Nov 15, 2012 - 09:20am PT
Yes, every year. It's cheap and there is little downside.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 15, 2012 - 10:49am PT
http://healthfreedoms.org/2009/07/24/the-1918-influenza-epidemic-was-a-vaccine-caused-disease/ ###Warning, may be a nut!!!####

http://proliberty.com/observer/20051017.htm

I've read that the 1918 flu deaths were the result of immune response (cytokine storm). In my non-physician opinion Elderberry is an excellent flu treatment with the exception of strains that are unresponsive to cytokine effects. With those strains elderberry is contraindicative.
locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 10:52am PT

"Elderberry is an excellent flu treatment with the exception of strains that are unresponsive to cytokine effects. With those strains elderberry is contraindicative."...


and for a brain tumor???...




























































An ENEMA will usually cure it???...

locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 10:54am PT


"Elderberry is an excellent flu treatment"...

and FYI dingleberries are GREAT for getting rid of unwanted guests!!!...

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:05am PT
Not at all surprising healyje and Ed are big advocates of vaccinations.
huh?
as a personal choice, I answered with a single word, "yes"

nwo spun something much bigger out of that...

I also posted the Wiki reference to the 1918 pandemic which was rather large, and had developed a strain that seemed to be particularly lethal by invoking an out of control immune system response, with a lethality peak in those otherwise strong and healthy age group...

this is just information... I'm sure there are those out there who see dark conspiracy everywhere, but you have a choice too...



healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:24am PT
Caveman - you just posted an ancient anti-vaccine rant from Eleanor McBean who was a lunatic in the best sense of the word. Did you actually read it? You know, the part where she says disease isn't caused by germs? Here are some other gems from her repertoire.

These mythical anti-bodies are said to make war on disease germs. But germs are not the cause of disease in the first place and are useful wherever they are found in nature [...]

Disease is not something to be cured; it is a cure.

These diseases [measles, chicken-pox, mumps, scarlet fever] are not contagious but are merely cleansing measures of the body[...]

That her tracts have been revived to see the light of day on the internet is a breathtaking example of technology use by the miseducated.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:28am PT
"Elderberry is an excellent flu treatment with the exception of strains that are unresponsive to cytokine effects. With those strains elderberry is contraindicative."...


and for a brain tumor???...


An ENEMA will usually cure it???...


"Elderberry is an excellent flu treatment"...

and FYI dingleberries are GREAT for getting rid of unwanted guests!!!...



......................................................................................................................................................

http://www.drlisawatson.com/elderberry-flu-fighting-fruit


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11399518



Brain tumor? Yeah, there is probably nothing to this or maybe you are just putting whatever in the wrong place.

monolith

climber
albany,ca
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:34am PT
There are those who claim Pasteur was wrong on 'germ theory' and Antoine Bechamps 'terrain theory' is right. They even claim Pasteur recanted on his deathbed, which is a lie.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:43am PT
Caveman, if the topic were carpentry then the health stuff you are posting is like recommending when building houses that lots of rock salt be added to the cement and that brads be used for 2x4s and 16p nails be used for trim.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:44am PT
I posted the link not knowing anything of the author by mainly for the title and maybe she is nuts. I guess the lesson is do your research and read carefully. As for the elderberry ,IMHO there is quite a bit of study applied to the flu fighting capabilities associated with it. As for me being "miseducated".............. could be.




"Caveman, if the topic were carpentry then the health stuff you are posting is like recommending when building houses that lots of rock salt be added to the cement and that brads be used for 2x4s and 16p nails be used for trim."


LOL!
Branscomb

Trad climber
Lander, WY
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:52am PT
I got one about 15 years ago. Our daughter was 2 or 3 years old and we had a rush of parental responsibility to our heads. I ended up with Guillan-Barre Syndrome, the paralysis starting in the feet and moving upwards until it paralysis your autonomic nervous system and you stop breathing. Didn't get to the last part fortunately. I'm the 1 in 100,000 you read about on the insert! What a privelege! My wife became allergic to all sorts of stuff she'd never had problems with before.

I would avoid it, ever. I think it's a scam by the drug companies to make a lot of money every year out of people's fear. In a practical sense, it's useless because, like Tami said, they guess which one will be the dominant strain for the year so they can grow it up and process it in time for flu season. If you notice, they never get it right, either.

locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:55am PT

"I guess the lesson is do your research and read carefully"...

And yet you appeared to be giving ADVICE...

YIKES!!!...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:58am PT
they guess which one

Uh, there's guessing and then there is scientific probability analysis.
I guess there might be a difference.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:59am PT
No, the Elderberry research is interesting, but playing around with cytokine response is definitely a double-edged sword which can work both for and against you depending on the specific circumstances. While it may be helpful with more common flu strains, it may act as an 'accelerant' with those flu strains which promote cytokine storms.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
Locker, just sharing my opinion of elderberry. I am nothing close to a doctor.


" While it may be helpful with more common flu strains, it may act as an 'accelerant' with those flu strains which promote cytokine storms."


Good reason for doing your research before diving in.
locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:01pm PT

and I'd like to share my expeience with GLUE...

The more you inhale, the less chance of getting the flu...

BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
<--RN and doesn't flu vaccine. I just wear a mask during flu peak at work like im supposed to. I'll wait until I have a need for the vaccine.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
I've read that the 1918 flu deaths were the result of immune response (cytokine storm). Elderberry is an excellent flu treatment with the exception of strains that are unresponsive to cytokine effects. With those strains elderberry is contraindicative.

This is one of the funniest tinfoil hat assertions I've ever read.

The 1918 epidemic was caused by flu vaccine which was not invented until 1931.

Hmmmmm.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
yet another inspiring thread, I see, telegraphing to all the universe our human savvy
locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:11pm PT

"This is one of the funniest tinfoil hat assertions I've ever read.

The 1918 epidemic was caused by flu vaccine which was not invented until 1931.

Hmmmmm. "
...



^^^

PERFECT!!!...

LOL!!!...





It may have it's problems...

But I'm sticking with MODERN MEDICINE and scientific facts...

No hokus pokus BS for this old BOI!!!...

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
I would avoid it, ever. I think it's a scam by the drug companies to make a lot of money every year out of people's fear. In a practical sense, it's useless because, like Tami said, they guess which one will be the dominant strain for the year so they can grow it up and process it in time for flu season. If you notice, they never get it right, either.


The manufacturers make very little money, if any, from it.

They virtually always get the strain right. What you notice are the infections among the people who did not get immunized......

Hmmmmm
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:14pm PT
(I've read that the 1918 flu deaths were the result of immune response (cytokine storm). Elderberry is an excellent flu treatment with the exception of strains that are unresponsive to cytokine effects. With those strains elderberry is contraindicative.)

"This is one of the funniest tinfoil hat assertions I've ever read.

The 1918 epidemic was caused by flu vaccine which was not invented until 1931.

Hmmmmm."



I said 'immune response'. I did not say 'vaccine'. To further clarify..........the deaths in healthy people were due to immune response (cytokine storm).
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
Branscomb: I ended up with Guillan-Barre Syndrome, the paralysis starting in the feet and moving upwards until it paralysis your autonomic nervous system and you stop breathing. Didn't get to the last part fortunately. I'm the 1 in 100,000 you read about on the insert!

Did you have asthma, use an inhaler or have any other respiratory distress/issues prior to getting the shot? The 1976 vaccine prompted a lot of Guillan-Barre as an adverse reaction in an unusually high number of people, one of my climbing partners among them. His didn't stop and he ended up in an iron lung for months before it remissed and then he had to re-learn muscular control over his body and suffered the atrophy of a lot of small muscles which was tough as an artist.

But prior to the shot he suffered from chronic bronchial asthma and used an inhaler constantly in order to climb. Given we don't know what triggers Guillan-Barre syndrome (or asthmas) I believe there is some speculation that there maybe underlying issues with folks who have Guillan-Barre induced via the vaccine which was my reason for asking in your case.


Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
Every year I get the flu vaccine is a year I don't get the flu. Strange coincidence, that ;). It takes a week or two to develop the secondary immune response, so you can still get the flu after getting the vaccine. So sometimes people erroneously think the vaccine gave them the flu they probably already had.

Personally, working in healthcare, I wouldn't want to wear a mask, and I don't want to go around killing all the old folks with my infection (they still have a lot of cool stories to tell and life to live).

I'm all for choice as regards taking the vaccine, but seeing the flimsy ass arguments against it is hilarious. Or maybe a little sad?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
Ok, the opportunity for a little education.

The manufacturers do not "guess" which strains to include in a vaccine. The flu circulates around the world, starting in East Asia, then spreading west. It takes about 9 months to make the journey to the US, then it starts again.

The problem with the vaccine arises when, during that journey, the virus mutates into another strain, and the new strain predominates. It is rare, but it happens.

The vaccine that is used these days are all three-strain containing. They contain last years predominant Type A strain (which always hangs around a bit), the predominant strain that has arisen this year in Asia, and the current circulating Type B strain (which changes much less fast)

The vaccine does give some protection to a newly arising strain, though.

Many, Many people confuse "influenza" with flu-like diseases, particularly colds. When I was practicing full time, I'd have 20 people/day come in complaining of the flu. PERHAPS one actually had it.

In my experiece, the symptom that most closely matched the disease was absolutely debilitating muscle fatigue and pain. Such that getting out of bed was something that required real determination.

The last time I got the flu, I was hospitalized for 4 days. Never again!

I get it every year, and always will.

Like an earthquake, we are overdue for a killing pandemic. It will happen, and when it does, it is going to be ugly.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:32pm PT
Speaking of disease reduction, I read an article about a study done at a prestigious university that stated they had isolated to essential oils that killed MRSA on contact. As I read I thought they will not tell in the article what oils were involved. They didn't. In fact when the study results became known funding for the study was dropped. Most likely reason was that it was not an exotic substance but one available in almost every garden. Not what the drug companies want to hear.
Another small trial examined possibilities that MRSA could be held in check by simply dispersing oils into atmosphere in clinics, hospitals. doctors retaliated saying it could not possibly be that simple. Money is the motivator and if it is not involved forgetaboutit!
locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:34pm PT

Have you read the one about the tinfoil hat and aliens???...

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
The effect of essential oils on methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus using a dressing model.

Or google: 'mrsa oil ncbi' to see a boat load of study abstracts on various oils...
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
"The effect of essential oils on methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus using a dressing model.

Or google: 'mrsa oil ncbi' to see a boat load of study abstracts on various oils..".



My point is that funding was dropped as said substances were common. There are many oils that might work. That came out as more study was done around the globe.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
I have gotten the flu vacine/shot every year since the early 80's except for two (2) years. I have only come down with the flu twice in about 30 years. Yep, it was during the two winters (flu seasons) that i didn't get a flu shot!

I haven't even gotten a common cold. But, the two years I did get the flu, it was hideous and lasted about 3 weeks! It was very hard to shake both times!
WBraun

climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
All the meat eaters get the flu because of all the antibiotics in the meat which lowers their immune system.

Eating tons of dead sh!t full of dumb drugs is sure way to fuk yourself up.

Then they need to fix that with another bunch of stoopid drugs.

Now lets watch all the knew jerk reactions to this.

Hahaha

locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:20pm PT

"Eating tons of dead sh!t full of dumb drugs is sure way to fuk yourself up."...

Uh...

THAT's the POINT!!!...

http://www.cheebachews.com/...

Made from DEAD marijuana plants...
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
(I've read that the 1918 flu deaths were the result of immune response (cytokine storm). Elderberry is an excellent flu treatment with the exception of strains that are unresponsive to cytokine effects. With those strains elderberry is contraindicative.)

"This is one of the funniest tinfoil hat assertions I've ever read.

The 1918 epidemic was caused by flu vaccine which was not invented until 1931.

Hmmmmm."



The paragraph at the top is what I wrote. Below that is the response by Ken M. Aside from not understanding what I said just what is tinfoil hat about what I wrote? Please educate.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
1918 flu deaths...
My mother lost seven (7) young brothers & sister during that outbreak. She wasn't born yet (was born later) but she had pictures of them, which she would occasionally bring out to look at, all her life. It was obvious that she mourned deeply for them.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
Caveman, Ken likes to show what a professional he is and how uneducated the masses are so much that his reading comprehension is sometimes overwhelmed.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
nope.

what werner said
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
My grandmother lost both her parents to the pandemic of 1918.

Few people today understand the impact of infectious disease on human history.

Immunizations are the most significant innovation in history.
Branscomb

Trad climber
Lander, WY
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
Healyj: didn't go to the respiratory distress thing. I decided I should go see a doc when I couldn't feel my feet anymore and started having a lot of trouble walking. Before that, I thought my climbing shoes were just too tight. Oh boy. Fortunately there was a good neurologist here who knew right off what it was and put me in ICU in case I did crump. Seems like they constantly did ABGs and Respiratory capacity tests but it didn't go that far.

He got ahold of five vials of highly purified human IgG that was used by the military to vaccinate their people for HepA. It was so highly purified that there was zilch chance of transmitting HIV. By a competitive inhibition chemistry thing, the high concentrations of IV IgG given over five days knocked the IgMs off the protein sites of the long neuron myeline sheaths, stopping the complement cascade from further eroding the sheaths (which had caused the lack of neuron transmission, causing the paralysis) and allowed the sheaths to heal. The IgMs were gobbled up by phagocytes and eliminated from the system.

It's an interesting immune phenomenon, one theory being that some people are genetically inclined for this--they have this unique protein on their myeline sheaths that attracts these IgMs produced in the initial immune response to the vaccine. Another theory involves allergy to the denatured egg proteins produced in the purification of the vaccine after growing in eggs.

And, another theory is based on the observation that people who have had a Campylobacter jejeunii diarrea have a 20% chance of developing Guillan-Barre post-infection. C. jejunii is a real problem in mass egg producing operations as chickens are very prone to this disease. The bacteria can cross the egg shell and lodge in the egg protein. I had my vaccine in 1997 (I think) which was a year when something like 15-25% of people vaccinated contracted Guillan-Barre. In the last two years there has been some discussion revolving around the fact that the quality control on the chicken eggs used to grow the virus wasn't very good and that a lot of the eggs were infected with C. jejeunii. There were problems in the egg manufacturing sector at that time with C. Jejeunii infections in the chickens. Unfortunatley there isn't any vaccine left from that year to test for the presence of C. jejeunii antigen, so it's just an interesting theory.

Anyway, there weren't any residual effects in me at least. But, I attribute that to the fact that I was in very good physical shape. One other person here in town contracted GB at that time after a flu vaccine and after quite a struggle, she came back, but with a lingering numbness in her toes and soles of her feet. She's always been quite overweight.

I'm a med lab technologist so I'm not some layman about this stuff. I feel quite strongly that anyone who trusts what pharmacutical companies say about the 'wonders' they produce is rather foolish and naive. There are some pretty amazing things they can do...look at antibiotics and some other meds. But they're not in it for charity. It's about $$ and if you don't get that and stay highly circumspect about these things, you're going be in a lot of trouble.
locker

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 02:14pm PT


If I am not mistaken, Ken M is or was a practicing Physician...

If anyone here (Other than another HIGHLY EDUCATED Physician) thinks they know more on this subject???...

LOL!!!...

Dream on!!!...




EDITED:

Think of it this way...

Who knows more about CLIMBING...

You, or that n00b that just got hired at REI that is POSITIVE he or she knows it ALL...

ROFL!!!...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 4, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
Dec 3, 6:03 PM (ET)

By MIKE STOBBE

NEW YORK (AP) - Flu season in the U.S. is off to its earliest start in nearly a decade - and it could be a bad one.

Health officials on Monday said suspected flu cases have jumped in five Southern states, and the primary strain circulating tends to make people sicker than other types. It is particularly hard on the elderly.

"It looks like it's shaping up to be a bad flu season, but only time will tell," said Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The good news is that the nation seems fairly well prepared, Frieden said. More than a third of Americans have been vaccinated, and the vaccine formulated for this year is well-matched to the strains of the virus seen so far, CDC officials said.

Higher-than-normal reports of flu have come in from Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas. An uptick like this usually doesn't happen until after Christmas. Flu-related hospitalizations are also rising earlier than usual, and there have already been two deaths in children.

Hospitals and urgent care centers in northern Alabama have been bustling. "Fortunately, the cases have been relatively mild," said Dr. Henry Wang, an emergency medicine physician at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

Parts of Georgia have seen a boom in traffic, too. It's not clear why the flu is showing up so early, or how long it will stay.

"My advice is: Get the vaccine now," said Dr. James Steinberg, an Emory University infectious diseases specialist in Atlanta.

The last time a conventional flu season started this early was the winter of 2003-04, which proved to be one of the most lethal seasons in the past 35 years, with more than 48,000 deaths. The dominant type of flu back then was the same one seen this year.

One key difference between then and now: In 2003-04, the vaccine was poorly matched to the predominant flu strain. Also, there's more vaccine now, and vaccination rates have risen for the general public and for key groups such as pregnant women and health care workers.

An estimated 112 million Americans have been vaccinated so far, the CDC said. Flu vaccinations are recommended for everyone 6 months or older.

On average, about 24,000 Americans die each flu season, according to the CDC.

Flu usually peaks in midwinter. Symptoms can include fever, cough, runny nose, head and body aches and fatigue. Some people also suffer vomiting and diarrhea, and some develop pneumonia or other severe complications.

A strain of swine flu that hit in 2009 caused a wave of cases in the spring and then again in the early fall. But that was considered a unique type of flu, distinct from the conventional strains that circulate every year.

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Dec 4, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
I very seldom get the flu.
The only time I've gotten the Flu was when I went in to get a flu shot.

Go figure
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 4, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
Getting older, you should also get your pneumonia shot too ;).
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Dec 4, 2012 - 02:51pm PT
Yes every year. It's your life you could be risking. How many of you people against the shot actually have any medical experience relevant to the subject.
C.A.T., R.N., and B.S.N..
Flame away.....
locker

Social climber
D#@&%ebag Central
Dec 4, 2012 - 02:52pm PT


^^^

Fuking GOOD point!!!...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 4, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
I love SuperTopo cause I always know I can rely on information supplied by
people waay smarter than those stoopid and evil epidemiologists all over
the world. Can you imagine spending your entire life working at such a
useless and downright nefarious job?

Flu season hits U.S. early and hard

By Michael Muskal

December 3, 2012, 1:58 p.m.
The flu season has gotten off to its quickest start in nearly a decade, a sign that it could be a bad year for the illness, officials said on Monday.

Dr. Thomas Frieden, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, urged people to get a flu shot to minimize the impact of the deadly disease’s spread. Speaking to publicize National Influenza Vaccination Week, Frieden said a flu shot was the best tool available to stop the spread of the disease, along with covering your mouth when coughing and washing your hands.

“This is the earliest regular flu season we’ve seen in nearly a decade,” Frieden said in a conference call with reporters. “That suggests this could be a bad flu year.”

The flu is caused by different strains and part of the test for scientists is trying to mix a vaccine that includes the strains that are most likely to be dominant in any given season. The current vaccine, which has been prepared in advance, seems well-matched for the strains that now working their way through the population, Frieden said.

Based on early testing, Frieden said that the number of suspected flu cases has jumped in five Southern states: Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas. The dominant flu type is the same as the one associated with the flu season of 2003-2004, when the outbreak was bad, he said.

The CDC recommends a yearly flu vaccine for everyone 6 months of age and older. It usually takes about two weeks for the body's immune response to fully kick in.

Especially at risk are very young children, particularly those younger than 2, and people older than 65. People with chronic conditions such as asthma and heart disease are also at risk.

With the holiday season in mind, Frieden urged people be careful.

“Spread good cheer and give presents,” he said. But “don’t share infections and spread the flu.”

LA Times - Early Flu Season

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 4, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
Immunizations are the most significant innovation in history.

together with anti-biotics...
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 4, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
1. Clean water.
2. Sewage and garbage disposal.
3. Immunizations.
4. Sound basic health care and nutrition for pregnant women, infants, and small children.
5. Nutrition.
6. Basic health and dental care.

Together, they account for most increases in life expectancy and quality of health over the last two centuries. High tech modern medicine has contributed relatively little. (I bet Ken M can add to this.)
roadman

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 4, 2012 - 04:14pm PT
High tech modern medicine has contributed relatively little

Unless it was your life it saved! Or your kids! 6 month waits for ACL surgery can have a dramatic impact ones QL.

Point taken. Plumbers are the most important people in the world.

3 rules of plumbing
1)don't lick your fingers
2)sh*t rolls down hill
3)pay day is on Friday

Good luck getting a flu shot in Canada....They ration that shi0t.
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Dec 4, 2012 - 05:53pm PT
Holy Sh#t locker just agreed with me?
My life has come full circle now!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 4, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
Flu shots in B.C., at least, are free for anyone who's at higher risk, e.g. seniors, health care and essential services workers, children, those who are sick or have compromised immune systems, those in hospitals. Those between 16 and 65, in good health, and without any pretext may have to pay, but even then the shots are easily available. You can even get them at the supermarket drug department.

And, as someone who is alive due to high tech medicine, I agree that it is of benefit. Just that in terms of public health, less important than some might think.
The Lisa

Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
Dec 4, 2012 - 10:43pm PT
Maybe if you are at high risk, then yes, take it. I might have had the flu a few times as a kid but I am otherwise rarely sick. Maybe some sniffles twice a year. Therefore I am not going to be vaccinated.
I know some employees who work for a hospital. They never work directly with patients or even visitors yet they are forced to get the flu shot. Now they get a mild dose of the flu every year. If it ain't broke.....
I do however still bear the scars of TB and smallpox vaccines I received as a child in Ireland.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 4, 2012 - 11:03pm PT
I generally get it every year. Didn't about 8 years ago, got the flu, and really thought I was going to die. I have been in awe ever since of elderly folks who survive it (I know many do not).

I take public transportation to work in a university. I cross paths with germs on buses (those poles every one grabs -ick [well except those who hang on with their butt cheeks - what's up with that???]), then mingle with germs on faculty of all ages, and germs on students, many of whom have little germ factories in their lives. And since we rotate classrooms all day, I get to be in classrooms used by countless other germ factories. Ew.

No way I'm going out into the world without the shot.

I have not been teaching this semester and this thread cues me that I've not gotten the shot this year! Egads - I'm off to get it TOMORROW.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Dec 4, 2012 - 11:08pm PT
I just get the flu, and let my immune system do the walkin'.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Dec 4, 2012 - 11:15pm PT
All the meat eaters get the flu because of all the antibiotics in the meat which lowers their immune system.

Eating tons of dead sh!t full of dumb drugs is sure way to fuk yourself up.

Then they need to fix that with another bunch of stoopid drugs.

Dude is so right!

Eat the meat raised without drugs, for sure. Yum!
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Dec 4, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
I used to get the flu- pretty much every other year.. On three occasions.. i've had the flu so bad- thought i was going to die.....no thanks...no more...

I got my shot yesterday, which is about three weeks later than usual.....crossing my fingers and extra hand washing for the next two weeks...


Btw, i just got Timid to go get a flu shot .. he's there right now..
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 5, 2012 - 01:17am PT
It's just asinine to refuse the flu vaccine. I don't know if it's ignorance, a veiled fear of needles, obstinance, or what.... Just stay away from those with weakened or immature immune systems, wash your hands, cough into your sleeves, and stay away from crowds where you might contract and spread the flu. Like, in your bomb shelter or what have you. Please, sign a DNR and refuse blood products while you're at it. Right after you've sterilized yourself.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Dec 5, 2012 - 01:30am PT
^^^ Purism.

I don't use computers, either. And I wear a gas mask when I leave the house because of the chemtrails.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 5, 2012 - 01:30am PT
Oh, Jebus, you're a sheeple too? ;-)
roadman

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:31am PT
Those between 16 and 65, in good health, and without any pretext may have to pay, but even then the shots are easily available.

Dude, cheeping out is the name of the game up here. That policy goes against science. It's all to save a buck. Nevermind, no one has a family doc here anyway. BECAUSE THERE ARN"T ENOUGH DOCTORS! So much illness is unreported and miss diagnosed...It's a nice way for the gov. to hide the reality of how shiity heath care is here.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 5, 2012 - 01:34am PT
Baaaaaahhhhh, Reilly!
dirtbag

climber
Dec 5, 2012 - 02:20am PT
Dumb question, but if chemtrails, vaccines, etc. are pieces of a big plot by the Illuminati/NWO to depopulate the world why are life expectancies and the world population still increasing?
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Dec 5, 2012 - 06:26am PT
Just wash your hands and make a point not to touch your face.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Dec 5, 2012 - 11:41am PT
Disclaimer: I am no doctor. I am in steel fabrication.

This is slightly OT but since Mr. Milktoast mentioned it....... According to some web info taking turmeric when infected with salmonella typhi (typhoid fever) is a no no. Folks here taking turmeric might want to investigate.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011511
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Dec 5, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
Not every year, only because I couldn't be bothered, but if I was less healthy, absolutely. My kids get it every year, my youngest caught flu before he was old enough to be vaccinated, I never want to go through that again.

I've only had "real" flu once, it's a whole other story to that bad cold most people think is flu.

TE
roadman

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:27pm PT
I've only had "real" flu once, it's a whole other story to that bad cold most people think is flu.

So true! Easy to understand how people are fearful of it because we can all get spooked by the idea of tinkering with things too much, but really once you've had a true case of the flu (so long as you don't have egg allergies or GBS in your fam) it's a no brainer to get the shot every year or at least often.

Funny how we don't understand till we get smacked down by a tiny virus! Before I got it, I though I was healthy and that I'd build my immune system for toughing it out...boy that was dumb..
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 5, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
I never used to until I got myself a copy of the real flu one year.

I think most people, and me up until that viral assault, have not had a "REAL" flu virus.

I was in the best shape of my life, ice climbing in Ouray that year when the hammer of God struck my partner and myself.

There were two nights in particular I really thought that I might die by drowning in my own fluids. The body aches were so bad, I could have sworn I was in some major motorcycle accident, every day.

One week literally stuck in bed.

Two weeks until I returned home.

I can now easily understand how the real flu kills people.

A solid month until I felt even vaguely "right" again.

So yeah, I get the vaccine now. It might not work, but I'll take that chance.
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 5, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
you GOTTA be a troll if you're saying that OJ can prevent yersinia pestis infection (the bacteria that causes the "bubonic plague").

We have tularemia here in California, it's pretty common, and produces a disease very similar to the bubonic plague. I propose an experiment whereby you drink nothing but OJ while bivying naked in the Owens valley for a few nights, until you get bit by a mouse or two. You can have access to ALL the OJ you want...

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 5, 2012 - 02:31pm PT
No he's just 23....

I believed stuff like that at 23 too...
The Guy

Trad climber
Portland, OR
Dec 5, 2012 - 02:47pm PT
NO! I was born naturally and like mucci, raised on the titty. Nice to see all the NO's!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 5, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
Hey, the flu and bubonic plague are natural, too.
Go suck on some natural bubos!
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Dec 5, 2012 - 10:34pm PT
Never had the vaccine. Still alive.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 5, 2012 - 10:41pm PT

not only no but hell no, its all a scam to scar parents into spending money... notice how media pushes it more than doctors do, eat healthy stay active, and drink orange juice lol

LOL...you do realize the poster immediately above you is a nurse?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 5, 2012 - 10:47pm PT
Never get a flu shot but wear a flea collar...RJ
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 5, 2012 - 11:14pm PT
WatchSteveClimb reports
im 23 and have had phenomena 4 times already in my life

I'm not sure what this is... I study phenomena, but never "had" it.. and you are so young and had them 4 times...


...but you say OJ prevents phenomena, quite amazing...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 5, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
1. Clean water.
2. Sewage and garbage disposal.
3. Immunizations.
4. Sound basic health care and nutrition for pregnant women, infants, and small children.
5. Nutrition.
6. Basic health and dental care.

Together, they account for most increases in life expectancy and quality of health over the last two centuries. High tech modern medicine has contributed relatively little. (I bet Ken M can add to this.)
=

MH, I think I agree with that.

Personally, I think there is a vastly wrong emphasis on high tech as the "first option", for everything. I think there was be vast improvements in health if we were to emphasize exercise, diet, and stress reduction. But it won't work within the healthcare system

However, technical solutions can produce miracles. Smallpox is gone.

Polio is within reach:
http://www.polioeradication.org/Dataandmonitoring/Poliothisweek.aspx

Guinea worm is within reach:
http://www.cartercenter.org/health/guinea_worm/mini_site/index.html
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 5, 2012 - 11:55pm PT
Flu shot taken care of. Phew. By the way, I get mine at Target. No appt needed and easy to deal with.
stephenbmx1@yahoo.com montoya

Sport climber
texas
Dec 6, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
jesus! I was kidding about the plague!

Edit:

sorry "pneumonia" is what Ive had four times already lol

I just come down hard with being sick my whoooole life, I've been critically hospitalized so many times in my life, and not from physical injures either, just sic as a dog with bugs, pneumonia, severe dehydration eye balls sucked in the back on my head cause of no fluid, I've had pectus excavatum

so for me not being sick for over a year is very good I think, and ive never had a flu shot
dirtbag

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
Sadly, this is a victory for the anti vaccine kooks.

Bimbo joins "The View":

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-76681283/
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 17, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
Gee, I always thought she was the spokesperson for the Center for Disease Control.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
Apparently others think so too!


CDC is just an arm of the illuminati.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jul 17, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
Must believe her she has nice boobies
hamersorethumb

Trad climber
Menlo Park, CA
Jul 17, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
Yes every year. Thank you herd immunity.
new world order2

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
CDC is just an arm of the illuminati.

:) dirtbag, you called?
dirtbag

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
^^^^^^^^ LIKE ^^^^^^^^

But dude...
























Yer gonna git banned!
TheTye

Trad climber
Sacramento CA
Jul 18, 2013 - 01:36am PT
I work in hospitals and pretty much have to get it. They can't require it but if you don't get one you have to wear a mask the entire time you are in a facility. I just let them shoot me up with everything and say f it.... one time in the last 4 yrs I felt off and tired for 2wks or so around when I got the shot and it may have been the shot's fault.... if I didn't work in hospitals I would never get one.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jul 18, 2013 - 02:03am PT
Remember those kids with the built in braces on their shoes, and one leg shorter than the other ?

Probably not, that was from polio. Nowadays we have Vegan conspiracy theorist who smoke, shrieking about vaccinations being a government plot...




Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Jul 18, 2013 - 08:35am PT
Every year - I have a lung condition that wouldn't thank me if I didn't...

Steve
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jul 18, 2013 - 08:52am PT
Nopw. Never have and hopefully never will.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 18, 2013 - 10:02am PT
Ah, Jim, don't you think that poor little girl preferred having polio to
the chance of suffering arsenic poisoning or becoming autistic?
wayne w

Trad climber
the nw
Jul 18, 2013 - 11:43am PT
Yeah, Reilly, Paralytic Polio and Post Polio Syndrome aren't that bad. Only two out of every five infants who contract Paralytic Polio die.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 18, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Only 2 out of 5? Sign me up twice!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
Nice going, anti vaccine kooks.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=20071644&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

20 cases of measles at anti vaccine church. Measles is nothin to fook around with.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Aug 29, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
My brother in law told me that he wouldn't get MMR vaccines because Alex Jones said it was a government conspiracy to sterilize the population and a part of their population control plan.




I asked him what a side-effect of the mumps was?





He had no idea it was sterilization.









Stupid is as stupid does.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 30, 2013 - 03:00am PT
Had measles, mumps, tuberculosis and Scarlet Fever as a child. Still alive. Stopped having flu and colds after switching to organic raw food...The only ones I'd bother to get a vaccine against are Diphtheria and Meningitis, and that if there was an epidemics...but in the US its mostly a non-issue (well Tetanus too) Flu isn't a big problem and wouldn't want to get a vaccine--don't want to get some mouse virus RNA in...Anyway, even if you get a flu "vaccine" rabid raccoons can get ya anyway...Looking at Amerikan "doktors" and whole medical mafia I wonder if they got their rabies shots.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Aug 30, 2013 - 09:22am PT
Flu isn't a big problem and wouldn't want to get a vaccine

Two of my patients just died from it.



They got it from young, strong carriers who visited their homes and gave it to them. The selfish visitors were pretty smug about the fact that they got the flu and they were fine. Bragging and spraying everywhere.


Stupid is as stupid does.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 30, 2013 - 11:13am PT
I know of two people who died from car accidents...
Whatever.
Rock climbing is gonna get ya too...risky, you know... When it's your time, it's your time. I don't buy american medical mafia propaganda, their pockets are so stretched out from stolen money, they're dragging them on the ground.
Your best defense against "diseases" is healthy organic food, healthy habits--NO drugs, like weed, etc--healthy sleep, no drinking, no body fat, taking vitamin C, antioxidants, eating garlic, exercise/healthy muscle mass==> your strong immune system.
I grow mean homemade kombucha brew, that stuff is immunity blaster, flu is scared of it.
My mother (who doesn't eat healthy) just had horrible flu, I was around her through entire 3 weeks, didn't get sick.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 30, 2013 - 11:26am PT
I actually know. Arguing with you is below me really.
I'm sorry if you have bad immune system due to your poor choices in life.
I used to have 5 colds a year...must be doing something right now.
Oh yeah, I majored in biology too--among other things--in my time ya know....I've done 12 years of schools above high school level. Thank ya, bye
Got to love people with below average intelligence coming and insulting :) Get yer needlestick, get your pill, sheeple. "Swallow the pill and it'll be allright"
Abram

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Aug 30, 2013 - 11:30am PT
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 30, 2013 - 11:32am PT
If I had high body fat and stuffed my pie hole with non-raw pesticide laden crap, I'd be also very concerned with "data"...;) We got to have the data to get up from da bed in the morning! If this correct and medically approved behavior? Inquire from your "health provider".
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 30, 2013 - 11:37am PT
Well, Tioga, so you've been lucky with climbing and surviving the flu, great!
Guess what? The vast majority of people who die from the latter are under
6 and over 60 so I don't think it likely yer kumbaya stew was instrumental.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Aug 30, 2013 - 11:45am PT
I was a teacher for 30 years and was exposed to everything kids can get and after a time never got sick. I haven't had the flu since the day of my first marriage in 1968 and both were bad all the way around! I could be one of the "I don't believe in that stuff" crowd but I like to base things on evidence and science and not what my uncle or grandmother told me. I am 69 now and get a flu shot every year and recently got a shingles vaccination too... a good friend came down shingles and was miserable for a month. Sure don't want to get that one! I was young and indestructible too and know how that feels. If one is older or has previous related conditions then the evidence supports getting one, if not than you take your chances, however slight.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Aug 30, 2013 - 11:49am PT
I'm beginning to think that all the internet has accomplished is to allow stupid people access to misinformation. With not enough education and intelligence to be able to tell fact from fiction we are ending up with thousand of little cults of quackery, paranoia and idiocy.

No sh!t, it's certainly proving itself the double edge sword.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 30, 2013 - 11:50am PT
This thread is a perfect proof that human medical experiments will not lack willing lab rat material.

Oh by the way, last time I gotten one of the "vaccines" (18 years ago) my arm got swollen like a log and I felt I was gonna meet my maker finally...the "doktor" crook (medical leech) said I was probably allergic to horse (or mouse, don't remember exact animal...just glad it wasn't a "chimp") "protein". Have fun...then, something goes wrong, many years later...a little error in your DNA somewhere...;) have fun with unnecessary substances injected in ya and being lab rat sheeple, there's no help for that. But this is America, where you have to have medical approval to take a crap, I mean...I heard it's been proven to be healthy via extensive medical research funded by (fat) taxpayers money (and laxative manufacturers)!
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Tioga, did you used to be Klimmer on ST?

I was a kid when polio was rampant and was given the first run of vaccinations. Before that there were kids in the neighborhood with braces for life... after the vaccinations there were no new cases. Was that unnecessary stuff in my body? Maybe so, but the evidence doesn't support that view. But like they say, it's your choice. Clearly, vaccines have been successful in stopping many terrible diseases in our history and to scoff at the idea of any vaccines flies in the face of scientific proof and logic. The danger from disease is far greater than the danger from the vaccines for that disease, and if you did have a bad reaction to a vaccine then imagine how you would react to a full dose of the disease! But that said... if you happen to be that rare person, like Tioga seems to be, who a vaccine harms, then you are right in your caution and need to proceed carefully.... proving again that nothing is perfectly safe on this old ball of dirt and water! Be healthy my friends!
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
Oh my god, look at the "data":

FLU DEATHS: "Deaths per 100,000 population: 0.2"
(Centers for Disease Control, 2010 data) Average rate, rates 0.1 - 0.3 over the years

"the current mortality rate for flu vaccines is 0.2 per 100,000 people"
(from one source, data hard to find--someone is interested in not collecting it?)

"ROCK CLIMBING mortality rate is 0.31 per 100,000"

"skydiving’s rate is 1 per 100,000"

"15.2 fatality rate (per 100,000) of driving a passenger vehicle"

"fatality rate of 2.9 per 100,000 for whitewater kayaking"

"The risk of sudden death during a marathon: 0.8 per 100,000 people"

And "cows kill an average of 22 people per year"...not to even mention risks from owning a pitbull. And the rabid coon might be waiting to bite ya. Let's write up a little proposal...get a grant...and develop a coon vaccine.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
In this article, AMI=acute myocardial infraction, or heart attack.
MI=heart attack
Ischemic Events=heart attack or stroke


A Shot in Arm, a Boost for the Heart: Flu Vaccination Reduces AMI Risk

Michael O'Riordan
Aug 26, 2013

SYDNEY, Australia — More data, this time a case-control study of individuals hospitalized in Australia, suggests that vaccination against the influenza virus reduces the risk of ischemic events[1]. The influenza virus, on the other hand, was not a significant predictor of acute MI (AMI), report investigators.

"Influenza vaccination in the study year was significantly protective against AMI, with unvaccinated subjects almost twice as likely as vaccinated subjects to have AMI," report Dr Raina MacIntyre (University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia) and colleagues in their study, published online August 22, 2013 in Heart. "Our finding of vaccination being a protective factor is validated by the fact that other significant predictors of AMI in the model (age, gender, smoking, high cholesterol) are accepted risk factors for AMI."

The study also showed that recent influenza infection was a common comorbidity in patients with ischemic disease, with 9.5% of the study participants recently having had the flu. This finding suggests that a "clinical diagnosis of influenza may be missed in hospital patients with other presentations," say investigators.

More Fuel to the Fire

Previous epidemiological studies have suggested that influenza is associated with an increased risk of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular hospitalizations. These studies have also shown a spike in the rates of hospitalization for AMI and mortality during the flu season. However, some recent studies, including those reported by heartwire , have shown that vaccination against the flu could reduce the risk of MI.

In one analysis of the data, researchers found that vaccination for influenza likely protected against MI in people with preexisting cardiovascular disease, but more research was needed to establish whether vaccines helped prevent MI in people without vascular disease. Another case-control study suggested that vaccination against influenza could cut the risk of MI by 20%.

In 2012 at the Canadian Cardiovascular Congress, Dr Jacob Udell (University of Toronto, Ontario) presented the results of a meta-analysis of four studies involving 3227 patients, about half of whom had no established cardiovascular disease and half with stable cardiovascular disease or acute coronary syndrome. Like the other studies, Udell reported that vaccination against the flu reduced the risk of major adverse cardiovascular events by 48%.

Udell, who was not involved in the Australian study, said that despite the lack of a gold-standard randomized, clinical trial proving the benefits of flu vaccination on cardiovascular end points, he is a proponent of vaccination. "I'm 110% supportive of the idea," he told heartwire . "And I don't think it's for a lack of evidence at this point or a lack of effort on anyone's part. I think the overarching reason when people are surveyed is either a disbelief in the benefit or a concern that the short-term adverse effects, such as a sore arm or they get the flu, trump any benefit."

If it is a question of efficacy for the nonbelievers, the time is ripe for a significantly powered large-scale randomized trial to answer the question, he added.

Risk of AMI Reduced 45% With Vaccination

In the latest Australian paper, MacIntyre and colleagues investigated whether influenza was a significant and unrecognized illness preceding AMI. There were 275 patients with AMI and 284 patients without AMI included in the case-control study, and just over half of all patients were vaccinated in the year they were recruited for the study. Of the 559 participants, 12.4% of the cases and 6.7% of the controls had influenza, a near twofold difference in risk (odds ratio 1.97; 95% CI 1.09–3.54).

Udell said the accumulating data supporting the cardiovascular benefit of flu vaccination have outpaced the mechanistic explanations. In the case of the protection against AMI and major adverse cardiovascular events, including stroke, the results are so intriguing that researchers "almost have to go back to the drawing board to reevaluate the triggers of destabilization in these patients." The present study also highlights how few people are vaccinated against the flu. Despite all the evidence suggesting a cardiovascular benefit to vaccination, in addition to protecting against the flu, just half of the population receives the influenza vaccine, he noted.

The study was funded by a research grant from GlaxoSmithKline. MacIntyre reports grant support from GlaxoSmithKline, CSL, Sanofi Pasteur, Merck, and Pfizer. Disclosures for the coauthors are listed in the paper. Udell reports no conflicts of interest.

References
MacIntyre CR, Heywood AE, Kovoor P, et al. Ischemic heart disease, influenza, and influenza vaccination: A prospective case-control study. Heart 2013; DOI: 10.1136/heartjnl.2013.304320. Available here.


Heartwire © 2013 Medscape, LLC

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:45pm PT


There really ARE a lot of IDIOTS on this forum...

;-)

TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
Haven't had a vaccine since I was in grade school.

I haven't had a flu in almost over two decades.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:58pm PT


"Symptoms
By Mayo Clinic staff
Initially, the flu may seem like a common cold with a runny nose, sneezing and sore throat. But colds usually develop slowly, whereas the flu tends to come on suddenly. And although a cold can be a nuisance, you usually feel much worse with the flu.

Common signs and symptoms of the flu include:
Fever over 100 F (38 C)
Aching muscles, especially in your back, arms and legs
Chills and sweats
Headache
Dry cough
Fatigue and weakness
Nasal congestion"...






Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
^^^^^^^ There you have it folks! Trundlebum is proof positive that epidemiological
studies are a complete waste of time and money! Any of you 'tards ever
seen Africans lining up for, like, forever to get vaccines? Yeah, I
know they're just ignorant savages. But then a lot of them have personal
experience with polio, smallpox, typhus, malaria, leprosy, and a lot of
other nice conditions which a smart westerner wouldn't want to subject
himself to the medical treatment protocols for.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 30, 2013 - 01:07pm PT

" epidemiological studies are a complete waste of time and money"...


Yep!!!...

Medicine is nothing more than a fuking waste of time!!!...







THREAD DRIFT:

A HUGE favorite of mine and I see it OFTEN on the news is when someone THANKS the Lord, when in fact it was modern SCIENCE and MEDICINE (and the Medical staff that administered it) that saved them, their family member, or their friend...



Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Aug 30, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
Personally I think it is a gamble to not get a flu shot if you regularly find yourself in close contact with others. Teachers, medical workers, retail, if you fly frequently etc. The list could go on and on. I guess it is about personal beliefs and tolerance for risk.

I got the flu about 20 years ago. I was really sick for about a month or more. Lost a bunch of muscle weight. At that point in my life I was climbing really hard. Took me at least 6 months to get back to where I was before the flu.

I get the shot every year now as I have kids and also are forced to fly frequently for work.

tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Aug 30, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Tioga, I have you beat in education but all of it was in biology/chemistry after college business degree. You do have a point, but you only get half the picture. You mixed with Reiley could make a happy medium that makes scientific sense.

Oh by the way, last time I gotten one of the "vaccines" (18 years ago) my arm got swollen like a log and I felt I was gonna meet my maker finally...the "doktor" crook (medical leech) said I was probably allergic to horse (or mouse, don't remember exact animal...just glad it wasn't a "chimp") "protein". Have fun...then, something goes wrong, many years later...a little error in your DNA somewhere...;) have fun with unnecessary substances injected in ya and being lab rat sheeple, there's no help for that. But this is America, where you have to have medical approval to take a crap, I mean...I heard it's been proven to be healthy via extensive medical research funded by (fat) taxpayers money (and laxative manufacturers)! Here

Makes me wonder what you needed the advice of a doctor for if you are so educated already and distrust doctors...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 30, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
We have some geniuses who figure they haven't gotten sick in the prime of their immune response proves something? Anecdotal retards.
BBA

climber
OF
Aug 31, 2013 - 01:11am PT
I got it the first time at age 22 in Taiwan. I was young and fit. I thought I was going to die of starvation as I lay in my bed thinking of things because I was too weak to walk to get food. None was in the building.

The second time it hit me while I was in my 50's and it had me dry cough up blood at 1am which scared the crap out of me and put me down for almost 6 weeks. I was conditioning for a marathon at the time and thought I was in great shape.

So you can get it more than once, and now that I'm gettin' old I get the shot because it could kill a guy.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 31, 2013 - 01:42am PT
Yup.....just held out for a week in Tajikistan waiting for diarrhea to go away.....finally took cipro and was cured in a few hours. Why this paranoia about drugs?
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Aug 31, 2013 - 07:52am PT
Why this paranoia about drugs?

Strange, isn't it?

I have intelligent, perfectly reasonable friends who, on the topic of vaccinations, becomes babbling idiots who spew factual nonsense and quote ridiculous studies that the found on the "Internet" about vaccinations.

The Flat Earth Society is alive and well.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 31, 2013 - 08:27am PT
Measles outbreak in Texas church leads to soul-searching, thank God
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Aug 31, 2013 - 10:12am PT
Doctors cause, on average, 80,000 accidental deaths per year in the US alone.

That's just deaths.

I don't trust them, unless I have no other recourse.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 31, 2013 - 11:40am PT

"FACTS TO PONDER :

(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.

(Calculation) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services"
...




Be curious to see how many of those 120,000 were due to FLU SHOTS...

???...

;-)




Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 31, 2013 - 11:50am PT
Seeing this thread make the rounds again reminds me that it's time for me to get my annual flu shot.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 31, 2013 - 12:33pm PT


NEWSFLASH!!!...

"Man dies from accidental death caused by a Flu shot"...


To the Newswoman:

"That damned Doctor KILLED my friend when he MISSED and hit him in the EYE with the Flu shot"...
WBraun

climber
Aug 31, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
I remember the anti Malaria vaccine I was given.

"Werner, 1 in 1000 or so immediately die from the side effects within an hour from this vaccine".

"No sh!t" ????? LOL

"Yep No sh!t"

I ask "How do you tell if you're allergic or not"

"Just take it aszhole and in one hour you'll know" I was told.

LOL ......

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 31, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
I used to be scared of needles too, guys. If you are really brave though, they'll give you a lollipop.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 31, 2013 - 02:43pm PT


If she were standing in front of me naked and it was HER, or the flu shot???...

Wellllllll...



dirtbag

climber
Aug 31, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
Yep, I'd do her.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 22, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
So I just had my annual reinstallment of my illuminati chip. Now I'll probably start farting chemtrails. But at least I'm less likely to get the flu--seems like a fair trade.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 22, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
Credit: Reilly

Got mine yesterday so I'm certified brain-dead for X months.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Nov 22, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
never

I figure I am the guy with the best immune system by far, seeing as how my immune system is destroying my nervous system al the time…

so a little flu won't kill me
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 22, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
Every year.

No reason not to, unless you have an allergy to any of the vaccine components.

Getting influenza sucks really bad.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2014 - 02:04am PT
Very interesting article by a woman who did NOT get childhood vaccines, and her experience.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2014/01/growing_up_unvaccinated_a_healthy_lifestyle_couldn_t_prevent_many_childhood.html

If you’ve never had these illnesses, you don’t know how awful they are. I do. Pain, discomfort, the inability to breathe or to eat or to swallow, fever and nightmares, itching all over your body so much that you can’t stand lying on bedsheets, losing so much weight you can’t walk properly, diarrhea that leaves you lying prostrate on the bathroom floor, the unpaid time off work for parents, the quarantine, missing school, missing parties, the worry, the sleepless nights, the sweat, the tears, the blood, the midnight visits to the emergency room, the time sitting in a doctor’s waiting room on your own because no one will sit near you because they’re rightfully scared of those spots all over your face.
Howie Felderbush

Mountain climber
the homeless camp
Jan 11, 2014 - 02:10am PT
my boss at the half-way house requires it of me when i volunteer my services. You know there are a lot of people in need after the holidays.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 11, 2014 - 02:42am PT
got it months ago...
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Jan 11, 2014 - 05:37am PT
Me too.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jan 11, 2014 - 09:43am PT
I've never had a flu shot, and I've never had the flu
watch that all change now that I wrote this ^
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 11, 2014 - 10:50am PT

I took the flu shot a couple of months back and this is the first time in years that I haven't gotten deathly ill by this time of year...

There's still time of course...

But I'm thinking it has made the difference...

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:15am PT
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/texas-mother-dies-flu-age-29-report-article-1.1571118

Texas mother dies of flu at age 29, was otherwise healthy: report


Alice Jones had no previous history of respiratory illness, her husband told ABC News. But the mother of three died in the hospital after a four-day bout with influenza.


dirtbag

climber
Jan 13, 2014 - 11:03am PT
I've heard local news reports of people dying from the flu. Often they had no serious medical conditions and were fairly young (30s and 40s) when they died.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 13, 2014 - 11:17am PT
Yes, Dirt, it does hit those under 50 harder although that may be because
they think they've only a cold and wait longer than they should before
presenting. Three otherwise young and healthy adults have died in the last
few weeks just at my wife's hospital. (Well, it isn't her hospital.)

The saddest part is the high number of her preggers patients who decline the
flu vaccine even after an exhaustive explanation of its safety and the risk
to their baby, especially if they die. But when you're 16 you think you will
live forever.
DesertRatExpeditions

Trad climber
Flagstaff, Arizona
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
Thought I would throw my info out there.

I work in science (Trained in Engineering M.S. & Geology), so I know how to read and understand white papers. A portion of my family works in healthcare: Grandfather was MD, Aunt and GF are Nurses, I am taking classes working towards maybe eventually going to medical school.

I haven't been vaccinated since 1984, due to families beliefs and my own lack of understanding. By lack of understanding I mean, once I reached the age of consent, I don't feel like I have seen enough data to support the use of vaccines except in the most dire circumstances. To me the issue of vaccines is similar to the issue of nutrition i.e. we understand the basics, but we don't understand all the implications of the basics. This is evidenced by the polar views on various diets.

The majority of studies I have read supporting vaccines either have conflicting interests, or data that doesn't always match what the conclusion of the paper is. The research that supports the harm caused by vaccines is sparse, but mostly sound from my reading.

I am not saying I don't think vaccines are a good idea, I am just saying that I don't think due process is complete.

My Story: Vaccinated last in 1984, I get sick about one time a year, sometimes more, sometimes less. I haven't been sick in the last 13 months, but was sick twice in the last 25. I have traveled extensively in the third world, spending weeks and months at a time in the jungles of Asia/South America. I always eat the local food and enjoy trying out the local hang outs. In 2000, I came back from Thailand looking like I had the measles from all the mosquito bites I had from sleeping outside in the jungle, and I admit I was mildly worried I might contract something, but never did. From my observations, I get sick much less than most of the people I associate with.


Again, I am not anti-vaccine, I have just chosen not to have any myself until I feel that I have a more thorough depth of understanding surrounding the research.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:28pm PT


Well since you're using family and friends as part of your expertise I'll join the fray and play along...


I worked in the medical field at the lower end but have done some studying (EMT)...

My Father was an MD that owned and operated the most modern and largest medical facility in Palm Beach County when I was a kid...

My Mother is an RN and worked along with my father...

I have many relatives and friends working in the medical field...


The VAST MAJORITY of them are SUPPORTIVE of taking the FLU SHOT...



That's my bit...

LOL!!!...




DesertRatExpeditions

Trad climber
Flagstaff, Arizona
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:41pm PT
I worked in the medical field at the lower end but have done some studying (EMT)...

Being a WFR now, and wanting to take my EMT, I know I will have to get vaccinated at that point. I know it is a requirement. I also know that I am going to have to at least lean more towards one side or the other once I have kids. I just don't feel like I have seen enough research yet.

P.S. Not claiming to be expert.
Aya K

Trad climber
Boulder, CO!
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
I'm a doctor. Vaccinations work.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:44pm PT


Aya NAILS it!!!...






"P.S. Not claiming to be expert."...

I know man!!!...

I was JUST fuking around...(But it is also all true what I wrote)



and I'm NOT either!!!... (EDITED: But AYA is!!! ;-)

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
Not claiming to be expert.

Yeah, we get that. Do you also dismiss global warming? Yeah, we also get
that some 'science types' dismiss that, also. Well, as with global warming
the VAST MAJORITY of actual experts agree that the flu vaccine is nearly
completely safe and effective enough to warrant its usage. But maybe you
should take a statistics course to read up further in lieu of believing those
so-called 'experts' at the Center For Disease Control or the Jonas Salk Institute.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 13, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
Ken M is also a doctor and a vocal proponent of getting vaccines.
TrackerTodd

Mountain climber
CA
Jan 13, 2014 - 01:27pm PT
I get it every year, to protect myself and not to transfer the flu to others.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
Do you have kids? Do they go to school or a daycare? They will be exposed to the flu. Better get the vaccine than get the disease.

Do you work in a healthcare field where you will be exposed? Do you work in a large company/institution where people will have the flu? You should get the vaccine, especially if you have kids or elderly people in your household. You do not want to carry this disease back to those most vulnerable.

My daughter is an asthmatic. I am an EMT. I almost never get sick. Once she had asthma, I started to get the shot to protect her. This was the same timeframe as when I first became an EMT. Once I no longer have to consider, and if I no longer transport ill people, I may reconsider.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:28pm PT
This thread reminded me -- prob go out and get one today.
But looking at the effectiveness of the flu shot has been a little disappointing--something like 50%.
That's a lot better than nothing, but maybe not as good as some of us may expect--the providers of flu shots don't really advertise that number.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:34pm PT
"But looking at the effectiveness of the flu shot has been a little disappointing--something like 50%."...




Does that 50% represent people not getting it...

or 50% of the people didn't get it and some might have but were less symptomatic or some combination???...


Taking the flu shot is no guarantee to not getting it...

some do...

some don't...

and of those that do, having taken it sometimes helps lesson the symptoms...

sometimes not...


???...



Can be confusing...

bergbryce

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
Flu rates up here are very high and make last year look like a cakewalk.

The people dying in the Northern Cal hospitals are being killed by H1N1 which was in this years vaccine. Getting vaccinated doesn't mean you'll not get sick, but it can certainly help.


“This year, the flu is affecting people who are seemingly normal,” said Dr. David Herbert, the chief of infectious diseases at Kaiser Permanente in Sacramento. “They’re not old. They’re middle aged. They don’t have chronic health problems.”

Herbert, who leads Kaiser’s intensive care unit on Morse Avenue in Sacramento, is urging people to get the flu vaccine. He said this hospital alone currently has several people on life support either from pneumonia or the flu. And none of those had received the flu vaccine before becoming ill, he said.

Read more: http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-sacramento/norcal-flu-deaths-increase-some-on-life-support-and-in-intensive-care/-/12969376/23839720/-/foqnj5z/-/index.html#ixzz2qJKCYMpy

Don't get it? Darwin wins, but Darwin wins slowly over time.
DesertRatExpeditions

Trad climber
Flagstaff, Arizona
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
Yeah, we get that. Do you also dismiss global warming? Yeah, we also get
that some 'science types' dismiss that, also. Well, as with global warming
the VAST MAJORITY of actual experts agree that the flu vaccine is nearly
completely safe and effective enough to warrant its usage. But maybe you
should take a statistics course to read up further in lieu of believing those
so-called 'experts' at the Center For Disease Control or the Jonas Salk Institute.

I do not dismiss Global Warming. While there is a lot of rather questionable science related to global warming, there is also quite a lot of very sound science supporting it as well, with no reputable work to the contrary. Vaccinations do not have this same amount of support. While I would really enjoy it if all doctor's were experts in every field of medicine, and that all immunologists questioned research a little more, that is not the current standard. Most MDs, not all, spend less than 5 minutes with their patients, at least most of the ones I have been to. Of course they assume they know what's wrong with you before you even open your mouth. It only makes sense that they would carry this same lack of care into keeping up with research. As I mentioned, I have read quite a lot of papers over the years. Most support vaccinations, but there are also a few that don't, and I'm sorry to say, I do not trust the CDC, nor most other governmental or corporately funded 'science' organizations. I have experienced first hand how data can be skewed by preconceived notions, even when it is just caused by a superior within a reputable organization. I want to reiterate that I am not anti-vaccine, but I have not seen enough reputable sources of research to skew my decision, especially considering I feel I tend to be healthier than most people that do get vaccinated. Maybe some of the MDs out there could post up some of their recent research finds. I would also point out that known, sound science is proven wrong pretty routinely. I think the 'Heart Healthy' diet of 10 years ago is a good example of this. Cell phone use is another. DDT is yet another. In fact I seem to remember the commercial of the little girl in the field getting sprayed by DDT remarking how safe it was, yet now we know it causes Hodgkin's Lymphoma and of course the shell defects in our national bird. I won't even bother to make more than a remark about tobacco.

What this boils down to, is that I have not spent the time to investigate enough to make a decision. When it comes to really matter, I will spend the time and collect sources and keep track of what and where and finally make a conclusion. There are way too many diseases out there for which the mechanisms of cause are not understood, to somewhat blindly make decisions such as this.

PS I have taken college level statistics, numerical methods, graduate level Data & Error analysis and use statistical analysis in my vocation.

Didn't look at the data, but I thought the negative percentage was of interest. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2013/01/studies-flu-vaccine-effectiveness-waned-over-2011-12-season
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:16pm PT

"What this boils down to, is that I have not spent the time to investigate enough to make a decision. When it comes to really matter, I will spend the time"...



You might want to hurry...

That time may well be during a hospital stay...

LOL!!!...

Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:22pm PT
I got a flu shot this year and came down with what seemed to match the symptoms and etiology of swine flu c. mid-December. Correlated quite nicely with a big dip in the temperatures around the Bay, which I've heard tends to activate the swine flu virus. However, I did weather it quite well and self-healed without a doctor visit or a midnight dash to ER. Unlike some people I know who weren't vaccinated. It might well be that if you do get vaccinated, even if you do catch the flu, your symptoms will be significantly less than without being vaccinated. Gray area subject to endless debate.

Being a good medical citizen, I went out and got vaccinated at Kaiser for pneumonia and tetanus a couple weeks back and did notice some mild symptoms for two days afterwards: slight runny nose and some dull aches and pains. Maybe a slight fever one morning too. Okay now. Sounds like it does take a little while for you to develop the antibodies in reaction to the dead viruses in the vaccines though. Of course, I feel pretty crappy all the time anyway.
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Jan 13, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
DesertRat...I'm trying not to make this sound too harsh, but for someone who claims to be pretty science oriented, you're not making much sense.

The science behind vaccinations is very well understood. And the effect of that science has been very visible. Smallpox is gone. Polio and tuberculosis are basically gone, except in the 3rd world. If you are bitten by an animal with rabies and get the vaccine, you'll probably be fine. If you don't, you die, basically 100% of the time.

The flu vaccine doesn't work quite as well, largely because there are many different viruses that cause influenza, and the folks making the vaccine don't always guess right.

Your personal experience has exactly zero relevance to whether the science around vaccinations and their actual effectiveness is good and real. Maybe you just have a strong immune system. Or maybe you're just a good troll.

And while I'm not a clinician, I do have a lot of background in this as I manage a set of healthcare data software products, that measure, among other things, vaccinations.
DesertRatExpeditions

Trad climber
Flagstaff, Arizona
Jan 13, 2014 - 10:49pm PT
Other than making a note of my situation I am not using it to convince anyone else not to vaccinate. Beyond that, I don't have access to the data that you do, or to enough credible journal articles to contradict the opposing hypothesis. I find plenty of articles that look at vaccinations vs. encephalopathy and autism and 70% (est) come to the conclusion that there is no link, yet awards against vaccine producers are still given to families with autistic children. While I know they are just covering their bases, even the risks listed on the sheet for the MMR vaccine on the FDA's website lists autism as a risk.

What is obvious to me is that when Dr. Wakefield published his original paper, he was slandered and pretty much lost everything, even though independent researchers have come back and confirmed his data.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I never was. My post was an answer to the OP question and I gave the information I gave as a skeptic. Let's not forget that science is based on skepticism.

Anecdotally, among my peers who have children with autism, a majority (again not all, 2 fathers off hand that I can think of, a third says his son exhibited symptoms before the MMR vaccine) say that their symptoms corresponded directly to when they received their MMR vaccine. Some say it was within 10 hours, some within a week. If you look at the data reported (as required by law)of MMR vs Date of Onset symptoms, there seems to be strong support for the anecdotal evidence.

Nothing will be accomplished by insinuating that I do not know what science is, or that I may be a troll. Maybe vaccines are 100% safe (although I don't think that anyone would ever agree with this), but I am skeptical and have yet to see enough evidence to subside my skepticism.

I work very hard at keeping myself open minded enough to question accepted theories. We live in a world that we think we have a complete grasp on, but our theories and truths are proved wrong every day. Don't let me sway you into believing anything you don't want to, but I would say if you want to think of yourself as a scientist, you should question everything you believe.

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.”
 William James
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jan 13, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
You're not trying to convince anyone of anything? Then why write a tome about it?

The flu is bad this season, as noted.
Jeremy B.

climber
Northern California
Jan 14, 2014 - 02:13am PT
I would also point out that known, sound science is proven wrong pretty routinely. I think the 'Heart Healthy' diet of 10 years ago is a good example of this.

Not particularly; it's more a case of taking poor or inconclusive evidence and running it through a game of telephone where the players have strong political (financial) or emotional (do it for the children!) pressure to present a simplified, settled message. Dietary recommendations thus have little connection to the underlying science, which has been relatively consistent in what it showed (or rather, didn't show).


// Yep, I generally vaccinate each year.
DesertRatExpeditions

Trad climber
Flagstaff, Arizona
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:34am PT
You're not trying to convince anyone of anything? Then why write a tome about it?

I'd hardly call 8 sentences a tome.

The rest of my posts have been to defend my skepticism.

Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer; there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
 George Santayana

Think whatever you want. I am not criticizing your steadfastness, I am merely stating my skepticism.

I'm going climbing.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:42am PT
I don't get the vaccine either. Not because I'm opposed to vaccines, just horribly needle phobic. however I read that Santa Cruz County has confirmed 2 deaths (males under 50). They don't keep flu death stats on people over 65….what's up with that!!!! Age discrimination. Death panels…I know it, I just know it.

Susan
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:45am PT
Blah, blah, blah, hey, I'm going climbing too! Remember: good hand hygiene and kick your pard out of the car if they so much as sniffle. It's especially important in your population.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:39am PT
I find plenty of articles that look at vaccinations vs. encephalopathy and autism and 70% (est) come to the conclusion that there is no link,


Actually, it's 100% show no cause and effect.

A link is not meaningful. You have a cup of coffee this morning, and get hit by a car this afternoon. Research shows that is common....there is a link.

Is there a cause and effect? No.

Is the link meaningful in any way in which a person should live their life? No.

What is obvious to me is that when Dr. Wakefield published his original paper, he was slandered and pretty much lost everything, even though independent researchers have come back and confirmed his data.

Sorry, but you are 100% wrong in that statement. How could anybody confirm his data, when he made it up? It was in NOT being able to confirm his data by which he was uncovered. In my opinion, he is a mass murderer.

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:42am PT


"How could anybody confirm his data, when he made it up?"...



That would make it a little difficult...

LOL!!!...





EDITED:

Some probably have legit concerns...

But for sure the vast majority of people that are opposed to taking the vaccine are just duped by the media and BULLSH!T they read...


"I read it, MUST be true!!!"...



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:54am PT
You have a cup of coffee this morning, and get hit by a car this afternoon. Research shows that is common....there is a link. Is there a cause and effect? No.

Now, Ken, I am disappointed. Your usually sage advice has gone bad on this.
If you get all jacked up on caffeine then all manner of bad things could happen. ;-]
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 14, 2014 - 01:27pm PT
I don't get the shot every year, but today I got one.


I'd hardly call 8 sentences a tome.

I counted 18, some of them too long.
Just a joke bro!
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 14, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
You have a cup of coffee this morning, and get hit by a car this afternoon. Research shows that is common....there is a link.

How would you explain this, then?

Uri bens a spoon.
Uri bens a spoon.

Obviously there is a connection between his mind and the spoon, even if you don't see it.

Use you heads, people.

Wake up! Vaccines are worst than Metolius cams!!!!!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 14, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
YURI FAROUK!!!!!
Dolomite

climber
Anchorage
Jan 14, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
My bro-in-law died of flu complications last week. I got my first flu shot ever this week. Trust me, it was cause and effect.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 27, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
It's still not too late to get vaccinated:


Credit: dirtbag
hamersorethumb

Trad climber
Menlo Park, CA
Jan 27, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
Yes, for myself and to support heard immunity for the imunocomprimised who live among us.
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