Werner, destiny or fate

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Messages 21 - 37 of total 37 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
MisterE

Social climber
Nov 12, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
Of course modern science, the atheist, the Christians and others will all disagree and say one life only and you're toast, finished and become zero.

I thought Werner said one life only and you're taoist, and it didn't make any sense...


John M

climber
Nov 12, 2012 - 10:03pm PT
So Dick Cheney's evilness was acting in concert with people that deserved bad karma, he was like the Zen Teacher hitting the deserving over the head with a bomb or some anthrax.
The Iraq war was destiny for all those that deserved their fate.

No.. Incomplete answer.

Good people don't deserve the evil that is foisted on them, though there are people who have made bad choices and get what they get. There are also Saints who choose to take on this evil in order to be the judgment of the evil. Jesus said.. "for judgment I am come". The rest are somewhere in-between. As I said, there is personal karma, and world karma, and evil. If you live in this world, then you are subject to all three though there are those who don't deserve either the world karma that presently exists or the evil.

Some people here seem to define destiny or fate as written in stone. It is not. It is a combination of your karma which is the build up of all past decisions and actions, plus your current decisions and actions.

You could be fated/destined to be a great climber coming into this world with great genes and a great family, and then derail that by choosing instead to do drugs, or even be derailed by someone else's evil, such as getting drafted into a war. The future is not written in stone, though predilections and a preponderance of Karma can indicate likely futures.

There is a whole lot more to it, but that is the readers digest super condensed version.

Just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. My destiny seems to be similar to Juans. I'm sorely tired of this planet.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 12, 2012 - 10:18pm PT
Americans are destined to be stupid...Not by choice but by Karma...Patrick ...Eliminate the American half of your dual citizenship and you will immeadiately feel smarter....PS...Watch out for the killer fog crystals...RJ
burntheman

Trad climber
slt
Nov 12, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
Just to help the discussion...

Destiny and fate are pretty much synonyms.

"Does science even have a word for the accumulation of your choices"

This isn't science. It's philosophy.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:04am PT
As destiny is dragging you up and fate is dragging you down, you can exercise your free will.

PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:27am PT
Once you know the nature of anger and joy is empty and you let them go, you free yourself from karma.

Bodhidharma (c. 440 AD - 528 AD)
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:56am PT
I can't but help use my own experience to guide me about whether or not there is free will or destiny. It's all I really have.

I don't see that I can be anyone I want to be. I'm stuck here in this body, in this time frame, by my parents, with the events in life--which at least for the most part, were not my making. When I look very closely I don't find that I make decisions or initiate actions consciously. Everything on the inside seems to "well up" from no where that I can find. It SEEMS like I have free will and choice, but I can tell you that there are many times when I feel like I'm in a movie, coasting, and the the universe is happening around me. I'm thinking it's all a done deal; no one is responsible; no one can be guilty of anything. It's all mapped out. Really. Everything. Call it anything you want to, but I sense an immense intelligence . . . beyond conception. Am I hearing the infinite, inter-related equations of variables all interacting to create what we call "now," or am I simply coming to a recognition that I'm a particle in an ocean of consciousness, learning that I am the ocean? Nothing can be any other way right here, right now.

A sense of control is necessary for every individual. Without it, you can't be an individual. That would be too bad for every body.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
MIssJ, I sort of worded that wrong. When I said "put up" I simply meant to deal with the condition. And I do love her.

When she first came out of hospital August 26 2010, the docs, social workers and public health nurse said that she had two options - home care or state care. Several people I know said to put her in to care and have a life. I had about $100,000 in cash and shares and I could have walked away.

But she deserves a quality of life and I hope that I am providing both love and quality for her. Everyone says I am. But I admit, it can be trying at times. And the booklet the Carer's Association sent me at the beginning Running on Empty: Who Cares for the Caregiver has been helpful.

My GP (general practitioner) told me (several months ago when I went to see him about stress and have my bloods taken) that I will be rewarded in my next life, and then I could see he wondered if that was the appropriate thing to say, I just laughed and replied: "That's okay doc, I understand what you mean."
captain chaos

climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
What Werner said...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
Control is illusion.



Ride the Wild, every day. Jump on the back of a wild horse, grab her hair, dig your heels in HARD and give her a go, see if you got what it takes to stay in the saddle. :-)

When opportunity knocks? Answer the damn door, already!

Fate by definition is not yours to control. Destiny... is not yours to assign. Both are the fabrication of the living, neither have any meaning other than what those of us this side of the veil, assign it.

Never let a day go by.....

DMT
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:59pm PT
Of course modern science, the atheist, the Christians and others will all disagree and say one life only and you're toast, finished and become zero.
You might become zero, but I aspire to be raw materials for other life forms.
locker

Social climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:02pm PT

Not negative at all, Paddy. I'm quite positive.
I just don't waste energy on False constructs. I have just enough energy to waste on Reality."
...

TOTALLY with you on that one!!!...

;-)

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
Not negative at all, Paddy. I'm quite positive.
I just don't waste energy on False constructs. I have just enough energy to waste on Reality."...

TOTALLY with you on that one!!!...

Captain or Skully, and Locker, I see and understand where you both are coming from, and I do agree that focusing one's energy on the here and now is the primary objective.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 05:39pm PT
It's where we live. I think you know that all too well.
Sorry to seem harsh.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2012 - 06:50pm PT
Cap Skully, you're not harsh, just realistic.


Something I wish I could be at times... most of the time... all of the time.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 13, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
poor poor pitiful me. i'd been laboring under the (apparently) mistaken notion that it was either fortune or fame


mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 13, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
I don't know about anyone else's experience.

I sealed my fate, future, destiny when I committed marriage with Liz. Till death. Beyond, well, you aren't committed.

But in sickness and in health, that's the one that makes it hard to keep the committment. Every day for years on end. Believe me, I see it among my friends, my relatives. It's love--it's how you exect to be treated if the tables are turned and you are the one with dementia, the leukemia, or what-have-you.

You know you are doing the right thing, Patrick, have made the correct decision. It takes courage and I hope you learned that it's a far greater courage that it requires than does climbing. In my opinion and in my experience...
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