Climber Built Anchors on a Wall

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nick d

Trad climber

Nov 7, 2012 - 10:43pm PT

So Bowser, if I understand you correctly; the system is better with MORE links?

Not sure I can buy that, good buddy. The fewer the better in my book.
Fewer links, fewer to fail.

bigwall shitter

Social climber

the wild west

Nov 7, 2012 - 11:21pm PT


	Credit: bigwall shitter

I wonder if this one was good for a upward pull?

Silver

Ice climber

Nov 8, 2012 - 06:10am PT

Whe I did the Muir it was mostly build your own. In fact it all used to be build your own. I see it has evolved from build your own to here's three bolts enjoy.

Hudon like I have said your not only one really good climber your smart and that is the full package.

I hope to rack up with you one day. Did I mention I hurt haul,bags when I haul them. 225 baby no bag is to big for this large capacity hauling machine.

mooser

Trad climber

seattle

Nov 8, 2012 - 06:21am PT

I'd get a good night's sleep off that sweet set-up (assuming I didn't have to change my shorts because of the yawning void below me...).

There's a difference between a biner-to-biner set-up like Mark's (which is in a completely static arrangement), and clipping a draw to the biner of a piece while leading.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2012 - 07:08am PT

Thanks and yes, posting this to generate discussion and learning (on all sides, I want to learn too!)
Scott, no this was just for the ledge, Max belayed over on the bolts in the morning.

Roger Brown

climber

Oceano, California

Nov 8, 2012 - 07:56am PT

Flanders and I climbed the West Face Rt. on El Cap. a couple weeks ago. After the second pitch, most of the anchors were climber built when Doug ran out of rope. 70 m ropes were used. We climbed it wall style. 2 days fixing, 4 days on the route.

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

Nov 8, 2012 - 08:09am PT

In the spirit of commentary, here's something I think a person could learn from Mark: Given a crack with continuously good placements, move the gear to effectively distribute the load, rather than placing the gear and then trying to accommodate the placements with improvised rigging.

As for biner-on-biner, it is, as with any "safety mantra," it is a good idea for it not to be a mantra but rather based on actual issues that need to be avoided. The old (very old at this point) prohibition about biner-on-biner came from the days long before quickdraws when climbers sometimes used two and even three biners on a piece (piton in those days) to alleviate rope drag. In those cases, it was found, unfortunately from hard experience, that during a leader fall the biners could twist enough for one to open the gate of another and so completely detach. It isn't at all easy for this to happen; you need the impacts of a diagonal fall and appropriate rope motions. This is how Mark Powell severely broke his ankle, an injury that changed the course of his climbing career and created lifelong health problems for him.

None of the dynamics of a leader fall are present in an anchor that is simply being loaded---even if a piece pulls---as long as the rigging does not involve discredited sliding X's or analogous "equalizers." In such cases, the dynamics that might produce biner unclipping are not an issue and there is nothing the matter with clipping biners to biners, as long as the process does not impose an outward load on any of the gates.

The only thing about Mark's anchor I would have adjusted is that two (I think) of the gates appear to be against the rock; if that is accurate I think I would have flipped those biners.

Prod

Trad climber

Nov 8, 2012 - 08:19am PT

Is there anyone who would refuse to sleep hanging from this anchor deeming it "unsafe"?

Yep, my wife. I find it best not to argue with her....

Prod.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Nov 8, 2012 - 08:31am PT

NINE cams?! What were you thinking of, man? Three should have been enough. He he.

More seriously, the only concern one could possibly have about such a belay would be in a violent storm, where the the anchors are repeatedly loaded and bounced around. Cams have some tendency to move in that situation. Also in earthquakes.

thekidcormier

Gym climber

squamish, b.c.

Dec 11, 2012 - 08:47pm PT


	Credit: thekidcormier

-Bomber anchor for a 3 man bivy


	Bivy anchor Credit: thekidcormier

-crap I got my lead line stuck behind the porta ledge!


	Equal Eyes, Equal Lies, Equalize! Credit: thekidcormier

Testing out upward pull on my lead anchor before dismantling my cleaning anchor during my rope solo OnSight of the South Arête

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 11, 2012 - 09:02pm PT


	Credit: philo

Bolt anchors? We don''t need no steenkin' bolt anchors!

The Warbler

climber

the edge of America

Dec 11, 2012 - 09:07pm PT

I didn't realize "building" your own anchor was so rare and such a big deal.

The few times I climbed EC, the rarely seen thing was a bolt at a belay.

No harnesses, no cams, no portaledge, no cell phone, no El Cap Pics, no crowd in the meadow, no other climbers on the wall, no Yosar, no helmets, no headlamps, no sunglasses, no flags, no beer ....

No wonder I didn't do more walls.

wstmrnclmr

Trad climber

Bolinas, CA

Dec 11, 2012 - 10:27pm PT

Hmmmm. Climber built anchors? Never heard of 'em.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 07:44am PT

That's the way it is these days, Kevin, "convinience" anchors are standard. Aside from that, people aren't confident enough in themselves and their gear to trust themselves building their own anchors. I'll bet if all truely unnecessary 3 3/8" bolt anchors were gone, big wall ascents would drop by 50% or more.
I was telling a buddy of my first hanging bivy, in hammocks, hanging from pitons we had placed and he was simply aghast!
That skill set has mostly vanished, the walls are a different place than they were in our time!

The Warbler

climber

the edge of America

Dec 12, 2012 - 08:02am PT

I forgot to add - no beta

Wall climbing seems to have changed more than just about every other facet of climbing, in its methods anyway. Stands to reason that an activity so involved with equipment would do that.

I don't mean to dis "convenience anchors". About the only routes I think shouldn't have them are routes done first with very few bolts or no bolts whatsoever. A route like that makes a strong historical statement, IMO, but routes that have bolts on them already, especially lots of bolts, I can't see the problem with more to make belays and retreats safer and easier.

Wall climbing is such a gear and bag fest that bolts are more than just convenient, it seems. Especially when everybody wants to lay around for most of the climb on a candy ass portaledge with a teddy bear and a beer : )

Only in the world of climbers would convenience ever be a bad thing

hoipolloi

climber

A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi

Dec 12, 2012 - 08:34am PT

I think the most valuable aspect of convenience anchors is the increased safety. I love climbing hard and scary sh#t (why? I couldn't tell you), but I also have a mindset that the belay should be the "safe place." I am all for building anchors when and where it realistically makes sense, but the 2 copper head and #1 LA belay just sounds stupid to me. But, I wouldn't be too put off by poor gear and 1 3/8" El Cap is often overkill, 3-4 (or more) 3/8 at every belay is a bit crazy.

On the flip side though, those fat anchors make speed climbing much safer and more feasible. Although, it could still happen without them, for sure.