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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
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Larry Bell, Contributor, Forbes
Benghazi Stand Down Denials Don't Stand Up To Reason
There are some large disconnects between Obama administration explanations concerning security and response actions taken before, during and after the disastrous terrorist attacks on our Benghazi consulate and accounts, compared with those which continue to emerge from outside sources. Following numerous White House claims now known to be inaccurate and intentionally misleading, we are repeatedly assured that we will get the real scoop in due time after full investigations are complete. One perplexing issue, among many, revolves around conflicting accounts regarding requests and denials of military aid which might have saved American lives.
Further delays only increase wide-spread suspicions that there are no legitimate answers, and that the president’s strategy is to run out the clock until after his final election is over. If this were not the case, it would seem logical that he would seize upon every opportunity to demonstrate evidence of the leadership and transparency he has repeatedly promised. Meanwhile, those who dare to raise those questions and express such suspicions are often subjected by his supporters to scornful reproach. And yes, I speak from experience on this…a subject I will get to later.
Putting serious questions aside regarding why early requests for enhanced consulate security had been repeatedly denied, along with misplaced blame for the attack on an obscure anti-Muslim video, let’s focus exclusively upon controversies surrounding that fateful seven-hour assault period.
During an October 16 interview, Denver’s WUSA-TV reporter Kyle Clark asked President Obama a two-part question: “Were the Americans under attack at the consulate in Benghazi, Libya denied requests for help during that attack, and is it fair to tell Americans that what happened is under investigation until after the election?” Expressing his regret about the casualties and sympathy for their families, plus a determination to bring the perpetrators to justice, the president didn’t answer either question.
After dodging, Clark asked the first and most important part again: “Were they denied requests for help during the attack?” And once again Obama offered a non-answer, saying: “I can tell you as I have said over the last couple of months since this happened, that the minute I found out this was going on, I gave three very clear directives. Number one, make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to. Number two, we’re going to investigate exactly what happened to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Number three, find out who did this so we can bring them to justice.” He continued, “I guarantee you that everybody in the State Department, our military, CIA, you name it, had number-one priority making sure that people were safe. These are our folks. And we’re going to find out exactly what happened.”
So are we to take it from this that President Obama expressly said that in the very beginning he issued a clear directive instructing that all possible means be employed by his National Security Council to secure our personnel? Such a directive would constitute an “Execute Order”, an official mandate that would carry the inviolate authority of our nation’s commander-in-chief. Where is that document?
The New York Times reported that defense department officials said they did not receive a request for help from the State Department as the attack unfolded. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, who was with President Obama in the Oval Office for a regular meeting when the first attack reports came in, then later said: “There’s a lot of Monday-morning quarterbacking going on here”, adding that “the basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on, without having some real-time information about what’s taking place.”
Yet the administration had already put our people in harm’s way…and did so without providing adequate protection. So if the president had issued a formal order to “employ all possible means to secure our personnel”, then wouldn’t the correct decision be to deploy aid to save them? And in not doing so, didn’t the defense secretary countermand the alleged direct order? On the other hand, it wouldn’t seem very likely for that to occur when his military superior, the president, was right there in the Oval Office with him.
According to a Fox News report by Jennifer Griffin, former Navy Seals Ty Woods and Glen Doherty (who were later killed), were ordered to stand down three times following calls during the attack. The first two times occurred soon after they heard initial shots fired, informed higher-ups at the CIA annex, and requested permission to go to the consulate to help out. However, they ignored those orders and made their way to the consulate, which by that time was on fire. The rescue team then returned to the CIA annex about midnight after evacuating those who remained at the consulate and retrieving the body of Sean Smith. They had not succeeded in locating Ambassador Stevens.
Woods and Doherty called again for military support as they began to take on gunfire at the annex. Again, the request was denied. According to those present at the compound, there were no communications problems at the annex, and the team was in constant radio contact with headquarters. Ty Woods was manning a machine gun on the annex roof at the time. He painted a targeting laser on the enemy mortar that later killed him after calling for support from a Spectre gunship that never arrived.
The fighting at the CIA annex lasted for more than four hours. That provided plenty of time for American aircraft and commandos based at our Sigonella Air base in Italy 480 miles away to intervene.
Two separate Special Operations forces were instructed to stand down. Senior military and intelligence sources informed Fox News that a force specializing in counterterrorism rescues which was already in place at Sigonella could have reached Benghazi within less than two hours. The other team had previously operated in Central Europe, and was being moved to Sigonella.
CIA spokeswoman Jennifer Youngblood denied claims that any requests for support were turned down. She said: “We can say with confidence that the Agency reacted quickly to aid our colleagues during that terrible evening in Benghazi. Moreover, no one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need: claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate.” So if not the CIA…then who did issue the stand down orders?
Larry Womack, writing in the Huffington Post, did a hatchet piece which referred to my earlier October 24 article titled “White House Watched Benghazi Attacked And Didn’t Respond” as a “jumble of lies” and a “rant”. He asserted I had erroneously stated that European military forces that might have rapidly responded did not arrive at Sigonella “until after the attack was over”. However this is directly at odds with reports that at least one counterterrorism force was already in place there ready for immediate deployment.
Womack also challenged my “outlandish claim” that “absurdly” misrepresented drone footage of Benghazi events as “live video” and my assertion “that a series of email alerts received late Tuesday evening provides additional information that was known to Obama administration officials shortly after the attack commenced.”
Well actually…yes! Two surveillance drones had been redirected to Benghazi shortly after the attack began, and were already hovering over the compound. One was sent to relieve the first, perhaps due to fuel issues, and both were capable of sending real-time visuals back to Washington. Any U.S. official or agency with the proper clearance, including the White House Situation Room, State Department, CIA, Pentagon and others could continuously call up that video on their computers.
As for real-time emails, there were lots of them also. According to reports, between 300 and 400 national security figures received these real-time updates throughout the attack. The first one came in about 20 minutes after the fighting began. Another, received just two hours into the raid, advised White House and State Department officials that an Islamic militant group called Ansar al-Sharia had taken credit.
Just to prove that I really can’t be trusted to present accurate information, Mr Womack pointed out that I’m “a climate change denier!” (exclamation emphasis in original). Although I really don’t appreciate the Holocaust implication of that “denier” term, he’s at least correct that I’m a bone fide skeptic on that subject… to the extent this conceivably matters. He also cited a reference to some related statements I have made on that subject which appear in an alarmist blog link. Frankly, I enthusiastically stand by all of them.
Womack concluded his article expressing angry disdain for conservative blogs which he believes callously exploit the Benghazi tragedy for political purposes. Here, he echoes a defense repeatedly voiced by the president. Yet if President Obama is offended that people suspect he hasn’t been forthcoming, there’s a very simple solution. Just provide real evidence to back up his administration’s claims…perhaps starting with that three point order he purportedly issued immediately upon learning of the attack.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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He pulled the plug on those state department agents.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:24pm PT
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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I want to know and I want to know now, and if I don't hear what I want to know now, I now get to make up what I want to know.
OK, here's what you want to know. Obama watched the Ambassador die from a drone, denied all attempts from patriotic Americans wanting to rush in and save him, then went on a vacation to Las Vegas.
There, will that bring the president down?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS) Classification Scheme
Stage 1 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Early symptoms include subtle, low level criticisms of Obama's "leadership" abilities. A simple understanding of separation of powers and what Obama can/can not do is enough to reverse most ailments.
Stage 2 Obama Derangement Syndrome
At this stage, attacks on the President begin to take on a nonsensical element such as criticism of Obama playing Golf, taking a vacation with his family, or eating mustard on his hamburger. The tone used by stage 2 sufferers mimics that of a gossip tabloid or an unhappy teenager's blog.
Stage 3 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As the disease progresses, deeply held anger, resentment, and fear manifests itself. Those afflicted with ODS-3 are unable to call the President by his name. They use incendiary monikers such as Barry, Obummer, Zero. The derangement begins to branch out to Obama's family. Even mentioning Michelle Obama's campaign to encourage healthy lifestyles is enough to cause hysterical fits of rage.
Stage 4 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Opposition to Obama becomes not just predictable, but a force of habit. Those afflicted use phrases like, "Anyone but Obama." The diseased begin to take any position, so long as it is not Obama's position. They begin to mock ideas like "hope" and "change" as naive, simply because Obama embodies them.
Stage 5 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As stage 5 ODS sets in, the assaults on the President's character begin to imply he is evil at his core. The development of conspiracies that suggest Obama is knowingly executing an agenda that will harm America are commonplace. Questions like, "Is Obama A Bigger Threat Than Al Qaeda?" and "Obama: A Radical Leftist Who Seeks To Dismantle Capitalism?" are common place.
Stage 6 Obama Derangement Syndrome
This stage is mostly reserved for birthers and bigots. People who have developed ODS-6 are offended by Barack Obama's very existence. The subtle racial undertones, kept concealed in the previous stages of the disease, can no longer be contained. They find it impossible to believe that a black man could be elected President of "their" country, despite the overwhelming evidence that the President was born in America.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Perfect, Norton. Don't waste time trying to reason with the afflicted right wingnuts.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
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DR. F I believe that you have a reputation for posting false information.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
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When your are under attack, don't ask for help from an empty chair.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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I have a distinct ground hog day feeling about this......
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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yosemite 5.9
you're shiteshow ethical report
of our president's conduct
is trivial and immature;
you'd be better served
chasin the + at the
end of your dreams.
obama is so gonna crush
your stupid candidate,
despite yours
and all the other coward's
efforts to fool
wise citizens into voting
for ignorance.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
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Dr. F, you admitted on another thread to attributing information to the wrong source.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Which of course, means he's wrong about everything else.
And yeah, Cragman, we've got the blood of 4 on our hands, check yours for the blood of 4000 young Americans in Iraq.
Wonder when Rong is going to start dumping into this thread.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Yep, took it right to Iraq. They were responsible for 911 right?
Felt good to get some payback, didn't it Cragman.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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now cragman comes
outta the woodwork
for an easy cheap shot
at a fraction moment
in time that he tries
to magnify into reality and intent.
to that note,
crag you were probably mastrabating
in your family room
while that biker gang
was beatin the shet outta
me at the bar in your small
town.
i see where your priorities are at.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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yeah
everyone knows Bush could have prevented 9/11 simply by ordering all cockpit doors be hardened steel and locked at take off, and he could have done that on "day one"
but the dipshits voted for a total moron and put him in charge
simple
the Israelis have been doing it for decades and have never had an attack
total national security failure while the Repubs had the Senate, House, and Presidency
party of national security, my ass
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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i would respectfully suggest
to mr five none and all of
his limping coherts
to buy a couple cases
of diapers
and a few parcels
of tear tissue
because you've at
least 4 more years
of lament,
shiteing your drawers
and weeping out your growing pains.
get outta the way
of change,
ya false inheritants of resolve.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Should Obama have gone before Congress and asked for a declaration of war on Al Q? Would they have accomdated him?
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Pearl Harbor Speech December 8 1941
To the Congress of the United States
Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.
The United States was at peace with that nation and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with the government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific.
Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleagues delivered to the Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. While this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or armed attack.
It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time, the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.
The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. Very many American lives have been lost. In addition, American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.
Yesterday, the Japanese government also launched an attack against Malaya.
Last night, Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong.
Last night, Japanese forces attacked Guam.
Last night, Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands.
Last night, the Japanese attacked Wake Island.
This morning, the Japanese attacked Midway Island.
Japan has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area. The facts of yesterday speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.
As commander in chief of the Army and Navy, I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense.
Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us.
No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.
I believe I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost, but will make very certain that this form of treachery shall never endanger us again.
Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.
With confidence in our armed forces - with the unbounding determination of our people - we will gain the inevitable triumph - so help us God.
I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, Dec. 7, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese empire.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jesus, dumb as stumps and mindless political fodder.
Have any of you clowns been in a conflict, riot, large consulate demonstrations, large-scale emergency, or other chaotic environment? I have - all of the above.
Events unfold which cannot be micro-managed from abroad and the pace of events cannot controlled on the ground, many layers of people are involved, it's hard to tell the players, communication are difficult, context is hard to establish, lines of authority blur, decisionmaking against regualtions and policy objectives becomes difficult, misinterpretation and miscommunication happens, mistakes get made at both end of the line, and in general Murphy takes hold and rules. Add to that a long history of State relying mercs and locals for worldwide protective services and the result is bad sh#t occasionally happens - particularly when the mission involved is a makeshift one in the aftermath of a violent revolution in the third world.
The idea that the President, SecDef, SecState, SecHSC, or Joint Chiefs are capable of, or should be, running groundOps as as an attack unfolds is so patently and blatantly stupid as to really not being worthy of a response.
'Libyagate' is yet another clear case hypocritical indignation on the part of the far right and a clear case of putting its desperate clawing for power way, way out ahead of our national interest.
In short, and given you keep posting up this sort of moronic bullsh#t, more like 5.6...
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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07:27 PM ET From CNN
Intelligence official offers new timeline for Benghazi attack
From Suzanne Kelly
A senior U.S. intelligence official discounted a Fox News report from last Friday that said officials within the CIA chain of command denied repeated requests from its officers on the ground to assist during the attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya.
The official insisted that the CIA operators on the ground were in charge of their movements and the safety of those who were preparing to respond was also an important consideration.
"There were no orders to anybody to stand down in providing support," the official said.
The official detailed a minute-by-minute account of what the official said occurred September 11.
There was a roughly 25-minute gap between when the officers at a nearby annex received the call for help from the mission to when the officers were able to get on their way to assist. During that time the officers at that annex location were getting their weapons loaded into vehicles, while others were on the phone trying to get local "friendly" militias with heavier weapons to help.
The Fox report also suggested that the officers on the ground asked for military backup but the CIA denied those requests. The official again said this report was wrong. The military, the official said, provided drone surveillance and a tactical security team to assist.
The timeline:
– Around 9:40 p.m.(local time) the annex receives the first call that the mission is under attack.
– Fewer than 25 minutes later, a security team leaves the annex for the mission.
– Over the next 25 minutes, the team members approach the compound, attempt to secure heavy weapons and make their way onto the compound in the face of enemy fire.
– At 11:11 p.m., the requested drone surveillance arrives over the mission compound.
– By 11:30 p.m., all U.S. personnel, except for Ambassador Chris Stevens, who is missing, depart the mission. The exiting vehicles come under fire.
– Over the next roughly 90 minutes, the annex receives sporadic small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenade rounds. The security team returns fire and the attackers disperse at approximately 1 a.m.
– At about the same time, a team of additional security personnel lands at the Benghazi airport and negotiates for transport into town. Upon learning the ambassador is missing and that the situation at the annex has calmed, the team focuses on locating Stevens and tried to obtain information on the security situation at the hospital.
– It is still predawn when the team at the airport finally manages to secure transportation and an armed escort. Having learned that the ambassador was almost certainly dead and that the security situation at the hospital was uncertain, the team heads to the annex to assist with the evacuation.
– They arrive with Libyan support at the annex at 5:15 a.m., just before the mortar rounds begin to hit the annex. Two security officers are killed when they take direct mortar fire as they engage the enemy. That attack lasts only 11 minutes before dissipating.
– Less than an hour later, a heavily-armed Libyan military unit arrives to help evacuate the compound of all U.S. personnel.
One other American was killed in the attack.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Cragman, again, both moronic and completely untrue in every respect, and please note the invasion of Afghanistan was one of the most ignorant, ill-advised decisions ever taken by an American president but the neocons weren't going to miss their opportunity.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Perhaps Obama has timed the attack on whoever was behind and organized the attack in Libya - if anyone was, that is - for say Sunday or Monday. It would reinforce his image as a decisive, competent leader, waiting until he was sure who the murderers ("perps") were, and then visiting justice on them, while minimizing harm to others. A November surprise.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Keep in mind that in less time than what has elapsed since Obama began the coverup of what happened in Benghazi, President Bush was bringing down the wrath of our armed forces in Afghanistan on the Taliban heads.....half a world away.
Thanks for the reminder, Crag.
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dirtbag
climber
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What's he hiding?
His torrid affair with your mama.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Welcome back Rosneau.....! Rudy Guliani brokered a deal between a cell phone provider and the city that resulted in a communication break down between the fire department and other rescue teams during 9-11...Rudy made some cash and gambled with rescue personel safety and it back fired on him in a big way...It's irritating to watch Rudy bark and snarl at president Obama on Fox news after having contributed to American rescuers death's due to his own incompetence...I think hypocrite applies aptly to Rudy....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Clueless in every respect, and you ask about heat rising? That's about the best you can say about this - political heat started by professional political arsonists.
Rove & co. has you guys all wired up to the indignatron twenty ways to Sunday and plays you all like a strad. It always amazes me none of you clowns can see the puppet strings, especially given how tightly they're wound.
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mountain dog
Trad climber
over the hills and far away
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Obama killed Bin Laden not Bush stupid Cragman.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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How can you condemn Obama's response to the Libya attack and crow with pride about the response to 9/11, Cragman, and call yourself a Christian all at once? Do you realize 90% of the attackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, as reported by the bush administration anyway, just to make the Afghan invasion even more absurd?
Cragman this question seems on topic. Please discuss. Discussion was the the intent of the OP, right?
Edit:FOX is willing to tell the truth...wise up. never mind. out.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Double standard. Bush orders the military to take action, and it's "President Bush was bringing down the wrath of our armed forces in Afghanistan". Obama orders the military to take action, and it's "Navy SEALS killed bin Laden". Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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The SEALS get credit for killing Bin Laden, Obama gets the blame for killing Stevens.
MH beat me to it.
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mountain dog
Trad climber
over the hills and far away
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Crag, you said on 9/11/01 'our president took it to the enemy' , meaning W. Bush. Do you think George W. really fought? Same as Obama killing Bin Laden. You use the same figure of speech but then try to use it against me?
This is a perfect example of the hypocracy of the Republicans.
By the way Obama finished the job and is cleaning up the mess that 'your president' left the world to deal with.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dude, Fox News hasn't even pretended to broadcast 'truth' since Murdoch started it as a for-hire corporate PR outlet and rightwing barking dog. Hell, Al Jazeera provides far less biased reporting.
As for the the 'liberal media' - a meme born of rightwing political operatives opposed to civil rights and folks like Hamilton, Reed, and Rove who needed a vehicle for racial indignation in their efforts to convert the south - it just appeals to those white males who can't resists appeals to their inner victim and all the deep outrage and indignation that entails.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The neocons were and are draft dodgers almost to a man. And you're going to vote for a guy with five sons none of which served in any of the wars he so vociferously supported. How unsurprising.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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mountain dog
Trad climber
over the hills and far away
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Good point healyje about those as#@&%e republicans who always want to send troops somewhere, but were to chicken sh#t to serve their country that they are so patriotic about.
Did you serve in the military Cragman? How about you Ron Anderson? Yosemite 5.9?
I did. Veteran of the U.S. Army.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Did you serve in the military Cragman? How about you Ron Anderson?
I don't know how it plays out in the rest of the world, but here on Supertopo it seems that most of those who howl for blood have never worn a uniform, while most of those who actually did serve oppose knee-jerk militarism.
What branch of the military did you do your time in Dean?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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So let me get this straight - I can only lobby my tax-paid gov't to kick someone's ass if I volunteer to do the ass-kicking? Why do I need gov't? Why am I paying taxes?
This argument is tired and old.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Steve, nobody said you couldn't lobby your government to order some brave young men to go and kick someone's ass on your behalf.
You may never have had the courage to do it yourself, but since you live in a democracy, you get to vote for some politician who will send someone else to do it for you.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Cragman's anger about a black man becoming the most powerful man in the world has clouded his judgment. Now that Obama is going to get reelected Crag is going over the edge.
It never ceases to amaze me at the verbal attacks against Obama, but total silence when Bush was f*#king this country up bigtime.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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^^well Ron I just happened to tune here.
A couple of questions:
How do you know all this stuff that you mentioned?
Have you ever been mis-informed?
The bad news? The truth will not prevail, it never does.
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dirtbag
climber
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Fuuking ODS--all of you right wingers.
Instead of waiting for the facts to come in you guys tried and convicted him minutes after the tragedy came down.
Had your knifes all sharpened after four years of utter hatred.
I hope Obama wins, not only because he should, but to send you right wing, mostly bible-thumping hateful freaks in a big ol tizzy.
You can all suck it, biotches!
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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In case you missed it Ron,
The Fox report also suggested that the officers on the ground asked for military backup but the CIA denied those requests. The official again said this report was wrong. The military, the official said, provided drone surveillance and a tactical security team to assist.
A "chompin at the bit" team was provided.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Which gives you the right to make up crap.
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mountain dog
Trad climber
over the hills and far away
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Ron, You contradict yourself in your 1st sentence. Romney and his followers are making this political since it started. Sadly, because it is a futile argument for you, and your side would be better served focusing on the issues you might know something about like the economy but that is still up for debate by others, not me. But I can't really think of what the Repubs strengths are.
It is a fact that terrorism works and will continue. It is too cheap and easy too execute, and too hard to stop. Romney won't be able to stop sh#t. Be realistic.
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mountain dog
Trad climber
over the hills and far away
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There is no big 'cover up' here Republicans.
Nothing like Pat Tillman, or Abu Ghraib.
Let it go.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Again, get a grip. You have a completely clueless assessment of how reality works in a place like Libya during and after the revolution. There is virtually no way to equip 'opposition' forces in any Mideast country without it being a complete crap shoot as to who gets those weapons or who we are even supporting.
That's because the Mideast is complex with lots of sectarian and tribal forces at play both in-country and in neighboring states which we are less than intimately familiar with. And in the aftermath of any such violent revolution the turf fragmentation gets even worse with no effective government forces to assert control.
That means the whole place is unstable, loyalties are shifting, you can't count on any logistics, reaction to military incursions are entirely unpredictable both on the ground and internationally, and you basically can't asses threat levels or security conditions on the ground prior to going in.
In other words it's a full-on clusterf*#k and that makes for a situation where on-the-ground, off-shore, and command-and-control decisions at a distance are all exceedingly hard with folks high in the chain-of-command loathe to make blind calls - particularly in the wake of the Mogadishu 'Black Hawk Down' fiasco.
I.e. it's the real f*#king world, not the the simplistic, macho fantasy world you wish it were.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Attended this interesting lecture today at USC:
http://web-app.usc.edu/ws/eo2/calendar/32/event/899340
Eyes on Spies: Congress and the United States Intelligence Community
The lecturer, considered one of the most distinguished expert on our Intelligence community, had a lot to say that was revealing. It was taped, and when available, I'll provide the link.
In the Q&A, she was asked about this issue. Her apolitical view is that it is absurd to be questioning the admin on the basis of a coverup of any sort.
In this, she is in agreement with her colleague, and the person who was the head of disertation committee, Condolezza Rice.
Hmmmm. The professionals seem to be pretty united on this, irrespective of party.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Ron, still waiting for you to explain how Sandy was caused by Obama?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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You guys are unbelievable.....we get attacked on 9-11-01 and our president takes the fight to the enemy.
No, he attacked Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither of which were the enemy.
In the process he killed nX times the number of people killed on 9/11, both Americans and other nationals. And he has yet to be brought to justice for these murders.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I believe that dirty nigra obummer is hiding his buddy Osama there..
That is what he is hiding..
All Al Queda along with the Muslim brotherhood is hiding there with the help of our Kenyan born president.
He is going to place them in his Cabinet after he wins the next election.
Wake the f*#k up!
We are all going to Muslim hell if you do not vote for Romney!
he was hiding Osama in BENGHAZI!!
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dirtbag
climber
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Still wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe change the 100% correct crap you post on your propaganda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do realize that your keyboard has other punctuation marks than an exclamation mark?
In case you do not know what an exclamation mark is, it's this: !.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I get it....you're a 5.9 kind of guy.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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obama isnt hiding, its just that his head is predisposed.
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dirtbag
climber
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^^^^Christ, what an idiot.^^^^
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Interesting to see who the dyed in the wool, kool-aid drinking Obama apologists are.
No matter how bad he screws something up, they will never admit it.
Amazing how almost everyone else knows exactly what happened in Bengazi, except the president who watched it go down on multiple live video feeds,
all the while claiming they had no "real time" information.
Then Obama sends Penetta out to deflect some heat who stated, in what is being referred to as the "Penetta Doctrine" that,“(The) basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on; without having some real-time information about what’s taking place,” Panetta told Pentagon reporters. “And as a result of not having that kind of information, the commander who was on the ground in that area, Gen. Ham, Gen. Dempsey and I felt very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation.”
Everyone in the Tier One community KNOWS that is a crock of sh#t.
One former Detla Force Operator says, "Leon Penetta is Either a Dumbass or a Liar."
He goes on to call the Penetta Doctrine "The dumbest sh#t I ever heard" and tells why...
First. I am certain that Penetta realizes that we have very specially trained folks whose job it is to execute missions just like what was needed in Benghazi. On the other hand, maybe he didn’t, since both of the Generals who he supposedly consulted with have a grand total of ZERO days duty in any Special Operations organization. In fact, they are both old tankers. The senior of which, General Dempsy, has a Master's degree in literature from Duke University, where he wrote a thesis on the Irish poet W B Yeats. He was a Captain then, and that thesis alone should have rendered him ineligible for promotion to field grade officer.
Second, and this is very important. I don’t know what Penetta’s definition of “real-time information” is, but I suspect that, if Eisenhower had the same doctrine, we’d still be sitting in England waiting to invade Europe.
Let’s review the real-time facts that we know so far. The entire event was being streamed live to the State Department and, in all likelihood, the White House situation room. That’s pretty “real-time” if you ask me, but it gets worse. Not only were we watching the entire damn thing on expensive televisions; we had at least two highly trained special operators on the ground in direct communication!
Do you think the whole Pointe Du Hoc event would have happened during the D-Day attack if Ike and boys had two Navy SEALs telling them that the artillery had been moved?
Maybe MacArthur should have cancelled the Inchon landings in Korea because having a live tv stream and two highly trained individuals on the ground just wasn’t quite enough “real-time information”?
And this is why “The Dumbest Sh#t I Ever Heard Doctrine” is so ridiculous.
The best “real-time information” possible is eyes on the objective.
Even better is people on the objective with eyes on the enemy.
Even better than that is people on the objective that are highly trained with years of special ops experience in direct communications.
My God people, this was a perfect intelligence situation to execute a forced entry relief operation!
I spent my youth (24 years) in Infantry and tier one Special Ops units and have been up to my ass is serious fighting on many occasions. In all that time, I never hit an objective where two Navy SEALs were already there and feeding me all the information I could ever want! Hell, that wouldn't even be a raid, it would be a link-up!
What more information do you need? Or was this never about information at all? Was it really the president deciding that the lives of four Americans wasn't worth as much as a campaign talking point?
In any case, this was not a military consideration made by Penetta or any Generals, it was purely political.
And that pisses me off.
You have to be blind, stupid or in denial to think there was nothing that could have been done.
Ok, you can put your head back in the sand now and continue to mainline MSNBC directly to your brain.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Right wing drama queens...
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dirtbag
climber
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You don't know sh#t Shack.
Sorry, you don't.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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LOL Shack, plenty was done.
A force from the safe house mobilized, called in the drone, and went to the consulate and extracted the survivors back to the safe house.
Meanwhile, a force was flown into the airport, which made it's way to the safe house and extracted all to the airport for evacuation.
If you mean that nothing was done cuz an AC130 didn't blast everyone in sight, then yeah, nothing was done.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Stage 4 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Opposition to Obama becomes not just predictable, but a force of habit. Those afflicted use phrases like, "Anyone but Obama." The diseased begin to take any position, so long as it is not Obama's position. They begin to mock ideas like "hope" and "change" as naive, simply because Obama embodies them.
Stage 5 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As stage 5 ODS sets in, the assaults on the President's character begin to imply he is evil at his core. The development of conspiracies that suggest Obama is knowingly executing an agenda that will harm America are commonplace. Questions like, "Is Obama A Bigger Threat Than Al Qaeda?" and "Obama: A Radical Leftist Who Seeks To Dismantle Capitalism?" are common place.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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When Barry called the Seals they killed Bin Laden for him.
When the Seals called Barry,
he never answered the phone.
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dirtbag
climber
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^^^^Christ, what an idiot.^^^^
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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I don't know sh#t? Ouch that really hurt.
Do your own research, see what those in the know say (not the politicians),
and you will see the truth.
But first you have to remove your head from your ass and turn off MSNBC and the rest of the liberal biased media.
I don't really care what you say about me because personal attacks only confirm that you have nothing.
"plenty was done"???? Hahahaha
"A force from the safe house mobilized" ....you mean the 2 former Seals who went against orders to try and save the ambassador? The ones who weren't even there to protect the consulate?
"called in the drone" There were 2 drones, already airborne. They sure did a lot of good for the Seals.
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jstan
climber
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I have a distinct ground hog day feeling about this......
The post to receive the 2012 best post award, awarded posthumously.
Next year Chris plans to institute the reflex test on all posters. If your leg does not move when hit with a rubber hammer
your post will be rejected.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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"nothing was done cuz an AC130 didn't blast everyone in sight"...Do you even know what an AC-130 is? If you do you would know they can lay down pinpoint fire from 30mm cannons to 105mm Howitzer.
One Seal, on the roof of the consulate manning a .50 cal with a IR laser designator, had the AQ mortar team in his sights for hours before the final attack. The Spectre gunship could have easily landed a round or two on them with zero collateral damage. Is that too much to ask? What would be the down side?
One well placed piece of ordinance would have done wonders.
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dirtbag
climber
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Do your own research, see what those in the know say (not the politicians),
and you will see the truth.
But first you have to remove your head from your ass and turn off MSNBC and the rest of the liberal biased media.
I don't really care what you say about me because personal attacks only confirm that you have nothing.
Truth's a bitch. You don't know sh#t. That article is speculative smear piece by someone who wasn't there.
That's your source?
I laugh robustly at you.
You got ODS, it shows.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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One Seal, on the roof of the consulate manning a .50 cal with a IR laser designator, had the AQ mortar team in his sights for hours before the final attack
Then why the hell didn't he fire? Oh, right, Obama ordered him to stand down.
The final attack happened at the safe house, not the consulate, and the mortar fire was unexpected.
You are making sh#t up Shack.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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One Seal, on the roof of the consulate manning a .50 cal with a IR laser designator, had the AQ mortar team in his sights for hours before the final attack. The Spectre gunship could have easily landed a round or two on them with zero collateral damage. Is that too much to ask? What would be the down side?
The Predators could have done it too with one AGM 114
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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So dirtbag, I guess you've got a better source who was there? No?
Well what are your sources?
You don't know sh#t except for what you are told to believe by MSNBC.
And I actually have a lot of other sources, like 2 other former Delta Lt. Colonels.
But what would they know, I'm sure you know better. HAHAHAHAHA!!!
EDIT: I did say the roof of the consulate but I meant to say the annex.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Delta Lt. Colonels.
These fellows were there?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Pathetic thread.
Both sides falling for the magicians and the politicians stock in trade
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dirtbag
climber
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So dirtbag, I guess you've got a better source who was there? No?
Well what are your sources?
You don't know sh#t except for what you are told to believe by MSNBC.
I don't fully understand what happened. For that reason I am reserving judgment.
I don't my news from MSNBC either. Sorry.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Nope. Never listened to one single politician on this. They are all liars.
The former Delta Commanders that I believe, know exactly how those situations are supposed to be handled plus they have inside sources that most do not.
Is anyone here claiming to have a source that was there?
Who are your sources?
MSNBC doesn't count.
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dirtbag
climber
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MSNBC doesn't count.
Nice strawman.
I like how you keep trotting out people who weren't there as actual sources. LOL.
Nope, you don't know sh#t.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Good comeback. I guess your ignorance is bliss?
So the only ones who know what happened were there?
You have got to be joking. I mean that is laughable.
There are plenty of CIA and Tier One guys who are pissed about the way it went down and are leaking info the press and their Unit brothers.
You are delusional if you think there was nothing that could have been done.
So you have NO sources yet contend that I don't know sh#t?
So that means you know less than sh#t?
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dirtbag
climber
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Good comeback. I guess your ignorance is bliss?
So the only ones who know what happened were there?
You have got to be joking. I mean that is laughable.
There are plenty of CIA and Tier One guys who are pissed about the way it went down and are leaking info the press and their Unit brothers.
You are delusional if you think there was nothing that could have been done.
So you have NO sources yet contend that I don't know sh#t?
So that means you know less than sh#t?
Christ, but you are dim witted.
It means, it's a good idea to withhold judgment until the facts are known.
You have a problem with that concept, apparently, but it really isn't that difficult. But then again, ODS is known to rot the brain.
So the only ones who know what happened were there?
Call me silly, but I like to see something more concrete than "in all likelihood."
You are delusional if you think there was nothing that could have been done.
Um, I didn't say that.
Oh, and to all the ODSers out there, suck on this:
Nate Silver model updated an hour ago.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Yeah OK
The former Delta Commanders that I believe, know exactly how those situations are supposed to be handled plus they have inside sources that most do not.
but what about the other two that don't agree with them?
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little Z
Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
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bump...OK Charles, you're on
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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And those were real Embassies not Consulates or CIA Safe Houses.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Because it is absolutely pertinent not only to the current situation but to your false equivalencies.
For you to dismiss Bush because he is not now President is absurd and exactly why you and the Repukes seemed doomed to repeat historical mistakes. Deliberately forgetting everything that came before in a "hope and a prayer" that it will be different is classic insanity. Call it Hannity Insanity..
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Bush and Cheney need to be prosecuted for lying and tricking America into 2 phony wars..They need to be made an example of just like they tried to do to Clinton with the Lewinsky scandal...This way , a lesson may be learned , and history , hopefully will not be repeated...Anything less than an international tribunal makes the rest of Americans' look like accomplices in murder..
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Ron you are spinning out of control. You want to call Obama incompetent as President because of the episode in Libya. But you also want to completely ignore the truth and forget Bush's utter lack of any competency.
Will you RightWingNutz ever get over the ass whuppin' the liberals gave to Tricky Nixon?
Virtually all the BS coming from the talking heads of the GOTbaggers is an effort to color the Democrats with the same sh#t colored crayon that Nixon was slathered in.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Ron...Romney is Bush ...Not in name but in spirit...Romney , like Bush , is the lobbyist for Koch Inc. Norquist , Limbaugh....The same people who got junior in office...The same policies of hosing the 47% country clubbers which you and i , inspite of honest efforts , are destined to be members in..
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Hey DumbAss, dismissing all that was Bush is ignorant.
Like forgetting you had Triple By-Pass surgery as you are packing the deep fried BBQ down your gullet.
What Lincoln did as President is still impacting US.
What Jefferson did as President is still impacting US.
etc, etc, etc.
What Bush did to US will affect us for many, many years and should NEVER be forgotten!
Even if all of you on the whacknut side are desperate to forget.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Hey Ron, did you stuff this var-mitt?
Ron, if you are an Independent (not counting your voter ID) then I am a Cosmonaut.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Ron, you've No Idea!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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A word on a piece of paper is meaningless when your narrative/diatribe is pure GOP.
It could say you were registered plaid and you would still be a fervent right winger.
And Rong, even though Nixon is dead and gone his legacy still affects US.
This still matters.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Rong a dutiful Republican broken record.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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It affects all of US here in the real America. Apparently in your world Yesterdays never happened.
The only ones that ever try to make what I post about "poor philo" are you whacknut Koch-suckers.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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So funny when Ron tries to prove he's independent by showing he's a registered independent.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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This event still effects the World's Geo-Political landscape
As does this current abomination.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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We Libtards have been lobying the Obama Administration to pick you up for a free Caribbean vacation but no deal. Damn.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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what kinda president claims to bring peace to the middle east!
philo keep listening to NPR and don't forget to vote.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Ron...that's Elliot Goulet....and his butler minifraud.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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The whole idea of taking down Ghaddafi and letting militants have free reign in Libya was totally misguided feel-good bullsh#t.
Same thing with Egypt. And the same will probably happen in Syria.
Without boots on the ground (like Iraq), you can not control what happens. It's f*#king Islamic chaos!
The people who were behind this idiotic adventure in nation-deconstruction are the usual as#@&%es. George Soros, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Sandy Berger, and more specifically The Int'l Crisis Group (ICG) and the Responsibility To Protect group.
International socialists. F*#k 'em!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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That is a good question, Ron. They were literally BEGGING for security upgrades!
I've heard that this whole deal may have been a CIA op, including the Ambassador operating covertly as a CIA agent. But the question still begs answering, why were they begging for MORE security and a HIGHER visible footprint if they were trying to operate covertly?
I disregard that premise, it doesn't hold water.
But the ret. Navy SEAL illuminating a mortar team from the roof while waiting for air support is undeniable. He did his job and saved a bunch of people. Our gov't didn't pick up the phone when he called.
When the prez called the SEALS to kill Bin Laden, they answered.
When the SEALS called the prez for backup, he hung them out to dry.
F*#king disgusting to me....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Big can of worms there, Locker. But I generally agree.
Some people need a good killing sometimes. But yes, we are spread way to f*#king thin right now and we need to come home.
As for oil? Well, the prez shot-down a gimme from Canada in the Keystone Pipeline! The were begging us to take it up. Now that oil will probably go to China and Asia. Smart, huh?
We need more refining capacity and fewer regulations that prohibit or deter that. We are very capable of giving a big finger to the Middle East if we want to. Do you?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Well, I hear ya, Locker. I wouldn't say drill the fuk out of them, but we should be utilizing our own natural resources. And when we have Canadians offering cheap sh#t, WE SHOULD EXPLOIT THAT OFFER!~ Win-win!
Common sense is gone from this country....
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Some people need a good killing sometimes
Courtesy of the loving Christian man. Get back on your meds dumass
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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You dumb son of a bitch
Today, America’s oil production is at its highest level in eight years:
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Please don't confuse them with facts.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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You ignorant son of a bitch
always, always shooting your mouth off first, never giving a damn what the "facts" are
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Forbes! Oh yea, that's some non-biased urnialism...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Think again, Riley.
It's Canadian oil. It comes from their grounds.
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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The whole idea of taking down Ghaddafi and letting militants have free reign in Libya was totally misguided feel-good bullsh#t.
Same thing with Egypt. And the same will probably happen in Syria.
Without boots on the ground (like Iraq), you can not control what happens. It's f*#king Islamic chaos!
OK. ... .. so what's your solution? Or how would you have done it differently? So many here in the US seem to sweat from their pores the ideal of democracy, the people choosing for themselves a government to lead them. But when given the chance and those other people choose something that's not in line with American interests it becomes "totally misguided feel-good bullshit".
Again, how would you have responded differently? Would you have pulled strings from the inside, used your influence to guide those friendly to the US of A into power? The west has been playing puppeteer in the ME since at least the mid 1800s. How has that worked out for us? I wold say that economically it worked out great!! Especially for us here in the US. Our string pulling has let us live and act as if energy were actually cheap. Our string pulling has allowed us to continue after depleting the majority of our own energy/oil.
Pull those strings. But they come with unintended consequences. The ME is and has been for many, many years nothing but a playground for unintended consequences. Maybe we as the US or collectively as the UN shouldn't have supported the rebels (which like so much of the "Arab Spring" started out as popular demonstrations) but where would we be then? Dealing with a country of squashed down people ruled by a totalitarian government at least willing to marginally work with the US government? F*#k the people?
Without boots on the ground (like Iraq), you can not control what happens.
How well did we "control" that? Iraq is still a mess. And none the better for our having gone in and "control"ed it. Do you really think we can walk into another country and control anything for any length of time? Without consequences? Who are we to try to "control" anything about their country, their outcome, their lives?
The arrogance of the self-assumed puppet master.... .. As long as oil continues to play the role as the cheapest lubricant to economic prosperity or longevity this charade will continue. The second that ceases the ME will drop from the west's radar and will revert into the factious, tribal states it once was and is still only now obfuscated by the veil of legitimacy placed by puppet masters in the west be it governments or corporations.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The enduring neocon belief that we as the god-ordained, white superpower can control and dictate events in the Mideast is still alive and well and underlies most of the Libya hysteria on the right beyond it's immediate political utility. That despite the fact that decisions taken on that belief during the Bush administration actually reduced our security, economy, influence, and power in the world.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Great post Slayton
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
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The banter is interesting as always. I just wonder why Obama can't give an explanation seven weeks now after the event. What is he hiding?
Or is he just too arrogant to think he doesn't need to? Personally, I think his arrogance in general will cost him the election.
I am a little suprised there hasn't been more stories about Mormonism like four years ago to try to discount Romney.
A couple of hours of photo ops with Gov. Chris Christy, then off to Vegas again.
No better than "Good job, Brownie."
All those people in the Northeast will soon learn how worthless FEMA is, just like for the earthquakes here in CA and the hurricanes in the South. Doesn't matter who the president is at the time.
Just for the record, I agreed with everything Bill Clinton did policy wise and thought the Republicans mercilessly hounded him out of office.
I did not vote for Obama four years ago, but I did not vote for McCain either because he has serious anger management problems, for one thing.
Obama's performance reminds me of Carter, a man I like, but just not up to the job.
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John M
climber
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I just wonder why Obama can't give an explanation
Its been explained.. Multiple times.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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In multiple different ways that can't all be true.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Yes, if you apply whatever spin you want and don't care about the source.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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He is hiding the marbles Rong lost.
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the buckaroo
Boulder climber
Oakdale
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Wow, had to check browser...for a moment I thought I was on some FoxNonsense blog.
The originator of this post proves the maxim of "you can't fix stupid"...& there is a place for these right wing nut jobs in South Dumbf*#kastan.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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You're saying what? That this mess was handled correctly and skillfully?
That the Administration has been straight with us, even when various administration officials' stories contradicted each other?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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what I don't understand is why The President didn't consult with Chaz in the first place?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dave Kos shows how easily manipulated the dumb fuks are:
The obsession some folks have with one minor incident in a country the size of the United States is telling.
When Murdoch plays his tune, you dance.
He plays the same tired tune over and over - for weeks - and you still keep dancing...
Remember the "Ground Zero Mosque?"
Oh, the outrage! A terrorist headquarters on scared ground!
Whatever happened to that one?
That's right, Murdoch changed his tune.
Now you dance, boy, DANCE!
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dirtbag
climber
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Mitt Rmoney, spanked again!
SUCK IT!!!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The Butcher of Benghazi just go re-elected.
Now how could that have happened?
Probably not enough Patriots with their own private sources of info directly from delta force colonels.
Who weren't there, but know every second of what went on, eh?
Or maybe, because all the accusations were treated with the respect they deserved.....
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dirtbag
climber
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Ron, do you know what anecdotal evidence is? You rely on it quite a bit.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Glad to know dead brave americans are just campaign shyt to some of you.. As they clearly are to you.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Benghazi was a CIA failure compounded by the lingering aftereffects of "Black Hawk Down", not the conspiracy the right created for the election.
But I do expect it to become a wingnut talk radio conspiracy meme that will help us win again in 2014/6. It's just more political fodder for indignant white guys who will be yelling "but what about Benghazi?" long after they have faded into irrelevance.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Look, like any number of unfortunate events in conflict zones you sometimes end up behind the curve, respond too slow or not at all, or fail to keep your eye on the ball and bad things happen and people die as a result. It's an unavoidable cost of being present in conflict zones.
In this case this was the CIA base for sorting out wtf was evolving in Libya and IDing the players of note. The fact the guys on the ground who were our eyes and ears got blindsided in combination with the dual nature of the chain of command is what generated the response paralysis. The fact we now have the technology to micro-manage our embassies and local military from afar also contributed to the snafu of it all (as was predicted by ambassadors early in the twentieth century with the advent of radio).
Unfortunate in the extreme, but it was even more unfortunate it was seized on by the right as political fodder and another indication of just how desperate and nasty the wing nut radio jocks are.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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The thing I wonder about is why there wasn't a Marine platoon there.
I guess a low-level ambassador doesn't rate such protection.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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The thing I wonder about is why there wasn't a Marine platoon there.
I guess a low-level ambassador doesn't rate such protection.
why?
because our American embassy in ANY foreign country is as a GUEST
that country decides, not us, IF we are allowed an embassy and also how much, if ANY,
US security force will be ALLOWED
in many countries, our agreement is that THEY will provide the PRIMARY security, and only if they agree can we employ US troops
And if that agreement is not acceptable to us then we can choose to not have an embassy in those countries.
In the case of Libya, their forces were on the scene and many of them died trying to protect our people, and even the people of Libya the next day marched and held up signs basically saying the attack was not from the people of Libya but from a planned terrorist effort
"we" don't dictate security, they do
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The thing I wonder about is why there wasn't a Marine platoon there.
I guess a low-level ambassador doesn't rate such protection.
a) It was largely a CIA station and they undoubtedly felt too heavy a uniformed presence would have hindered and impeded their intel gathering efforts.
b) All embassies employ nationals as the primary security outside the gates and most as adjunct security inside the gates. That's part and parcel with the whole purpose of embassies. See wikipedia for the US Diplomatic Security Service (DSS).
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Well, that's no real surprise given we have heavily provided for Germany's national security over the years. We have 54k troops there and the German army is only 70k.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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He was hiding 50 EVS hahahahahaahhahahaha
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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White house shoots off at the mouth before they had good intel and you guys attack em for being wrong.
Then White house admits some errors and plays close to vest till they have all the intel and you guys blast em ...
You guys are funny
Personally I don't care about the details. The basics are pretty simple. Security was f*#ked up and 4 good Americans died as a result. No one disputes that.
Fix the stuff that went wrong and don't let it happen again.
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jstan
climber
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The salutary effect of the election is apparent even here. People have begun to make modest claims backed by real data.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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H and the fact that he had previous intel and warnings from Stevens about up coming attacks? early as August and 9-11 coming up?...Stevens specifically asking for additional security forces? Tyrone Woods Father wants to know who didnt send in the reinforcements..And i do too. When obama tells up front about this, i may garner some respect for him. I wont hold my breath. Hes been transparent as THICK MUD thus far.
My best guess is that had this been solely a State facility then, while still not meeting full DSS site security requirements for a permanent embassy, it would have had a contingent of marines alongside the contractors. If you dug into the details I'm betting the CIA made the call for restraint. Remember who the new head of the CIA is? And that's why his call would've have been deferred to by State and the administration.
He's also the head of the CIA because the call has been made for the agency to take a more involved operational role, but they clearly have a ways to go to come up to speed on that front and he's there to help. That was the thrust of the swap between the defense and intel chiefs - to better integrate the capabilities of each organization and that's going to take a decade and a lot of cultural shifts on both sides.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Ron, you should take a break from Fox news and head up to Woodfords and replace those three bolts on Led Zep Arete ;)
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Leaders lead....Obama went to Vegas....
...while Americans died.
He knows he dropped the ball.....and now waits until after the election to allow any sense of truth to come out.
Those of you who voted him in...bear this as well.
Some more profound Bragman wisdom . . . this guy way out!
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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H and the fact that he had previous intel and warnings from Stevens about up coming attacks?
Cannot the same thing be said about the Bush administration and the actual 9/11?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Cannot the same thing be said about the Bush administration and the actual 9/11?
yes, but George Bush is not a Democrat, therefore he is not mentioned or compared to
the focus, always the "point" is to find a reason, any one will do, to diminish, to criticize, to mock, to point out how ignorant, is THIS particular President
as long as one remembers that agenda, all else becomes clear
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corysue
Boulder climber
reno,nevada
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May 11, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
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Come on you guys, where are the conspiracy theorists? Does anyone think that Am Stevens was left open for a hit? Or was his abandonment just another example of bureaucratic incompetence? How can you have the CIA annex with armed agents just blocks away told to stand down. Troops in Tripoli told to stand down.The assistant ambassador watching a tv show after he knew the Egyptian embassy was under attack and not answering his phone until after some one knocked on his door. Just explain to me why? Why did we sacrifice our diplomats and embassy. Were we afraid to start a civil war? Were we afraid to expose gun running. Did Steven have some argument with the administration? Were we just caught off guard, totally surprised by an attack, even though the Brits had already pulled out of Benghazi due to the instability? Can some one just lay out why no attempt was made to aid these men until so much time had past? Was it all about the campaign? It sickens me to think Stevens, while he was being sodomized, knew that just blocks away were armed Americans that weren't coming to his aid. Perhaps we should all consider this, when we are asked to accept loss of our personal freedoms for added "security". I am not sure I trust folks that stand by and watch one of their own sodomized and murdered and then sit around and discuss who wrote which email and if it was a lie. Really is that the point here? Really?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 11, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
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corysue, welcome to the New World Order - faceless bickering bureaucrats
wholly unanswerable for their ineptitude.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 30, 2013 - 11:50am PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
Possible motive for the coverup.
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/libyan-intelligence-muslim-brotherhood-morsi-involved-in-u-s-consulate-attack/
On Wednesday, June 26, several Arabic websites, including Veto Gate, quoted the intelligence report, which apparently was first leaked to the Kuwaiti paper, Al Ra’i. Prepared by Mahmoud Ibrahim Sharif, Director of National Security for Libya, the report is addressed to the nation’s Minister of Interior.
It discusses the preliminary findings of the investigation, specifically concerning an “Egyptian cell” which was involved in the consulate attack. “Based on confessions derived from some of those arrested at the scene” six people, “all of them Egyptians” from the jihad group Ansar al-Sharia (“Supporters of Islamic Law), were arrested.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 30, 2013 - 11:52am PT
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BBBB-EEEEE-NNNNN-GGGG-HHHHH-AAAA-ZZZZ-IIIII-!!!!!!!!1111116669
Edit:
One of the comments from the link to a whacknut site that TGT received in his aol email this morning:
muslimmustgo • 3 days ago −
Is anyone genuinely surprised,really! When will America truly believe that obama is a radical muslim and his agenda,so crystal clear to most of America, is the muslim conquer of our nation!The illegal aliens aren't American citizens,I believe they would be more than happy to be a part of obamas private army against their supposed oppressors,the American citizen! Not so far fethched,obama has blatantly used every destructive method against America that he could to date,and there's alot more to come!
Yep....these are his peeps.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 30, 2013 - 11:57am PT
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When my grandfather got really old, he lost his vision and mental clarity. A once great man was reduced to incoherent mumblings, as we watched him slip toward his lack of existence.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/01/exclusive-dozens-of-cia-operatives-on-the-ground-during-benghazi-attack/?on.cnn=1
Sources now tell CNN dozens of people working for the CIA were on the ground that night, and that the agency is going to great lengths to make sure whatever it was doing, remains a secret.
CNN has learned the CIA is involved in what one source calls an unprecedented attempt to keep the spy agency's Benghazi secrets from ever leaking out.
Since January, some CIA operatives involved in the agency's missions in Libya, have been subjected to frequent, even monthly polygraph examinations, according to a source with deep inside knowledge of the agency's workings.
The goal of the questioning, according to sources, is to find out if anyone is talking to the media or Congress.
Among the many secrets still yet to be told about the Benghazi mission, is just how many Americans were there the night of the attack.
A source now tells CNN that number was 35, with as many as seven wounded, some seriously.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Exactly. Hard to imagine that they can't understand it wasn't an 'embassy', it was the Benghazi CIA station with the ambassador working out of it as the balance of power had shifted from Tripoli to Benghazi. I.e. it was filled with CIA folk who were attempting to figure out the lay-of-the-land and who's-who. That the station was overrun is a bummer. That the military didn't want to go in is utterly predictable in the wake of Somalia: the very guys who were supposed to know what the situation on the ground was got overrun, so our senior military folks weren't going in because of a lack of any good situational intel.
Duh - it just doesn't get more frigging clueless, but then this isn't about Benghazi but rather just an sad situation to exploit in any way possible to attack Obama.
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dirtbag
climber
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Benghazzzzzz...zzz...zzzzz...zz...zzz...zzi...
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Obama ...... and HIllery...
a couple of blundering wanabees...
To leave Americans unprotected and to let them be killed..
100% shamefull
and then to LIE, just like GWB did to all of US shows ME that they are all in IT together...
We be doomed intill WE wake up and flush all of them down the drain.
:(
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dirtbag
climber
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^^^^Brainwashed by Faux News-created outrage.^^^^^^^
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Speculation on Capitol Hill has included the possibility the U.S. agencies operating in Benghazi were secretly helping to move surface-to-air missiles out of Libya, through Turkey, and into the hands of Syrian rebels
I think this is likely the case. Reminiscent of the CIA supplying arms to the mujahidin during the struggle with the Soviets.
It might interest you to know that George Bristol, a good friend of mine, is a climber as well as a special ops commander. About ten years ago he visited me in S Colorado and we went out and soloed one of my favorite routes up a 700 foot granite dome and ridge. He may not look it from the recent photos but he is a true warrior-poet. Skilled in the English language (his college degree) as well as a multitude of martial arts, he developed the USMC martial arts training course all marines must now take upon joining the corps. He also was the USMC representative at a year-long seminar at Harvard/MIT on international affairs and picked up a masters degree there. A very smart guy, and I believe very honest.
His troops revered him.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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The Obama administration is obviously hiding something.
Whatever it is, it's worse than anything that's been speculated so far.
I guess all that *transparency* talk during the elections was just more Obama bullsh#t.
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dirtbag
climber
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HEY RIGHT WINGERS...
Where is your outrage over a recent war started by a republican administration...you know...the guys you voted for TWICE...
that was started under FALSE PRETENSES, gross INCOMPETENCE, and outright LIES...
and that killed OVER 1000 TIMES MORE AMERICANS than the four killed in Benghazi?
If you are not seething in anger over that war...
And if you are not DEMANDING CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS into the incompetence and outright lies leading to that debacle...
Then SHUT THE F*#K UP, you miserable HYPOCRITES!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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To the contrary, anyone who thinks Benghazi is anything but another sad symptom of a Mideast destabilized by a neocon fantasy and the cost of doing business in a conflict zone is delusional. But, as our resident hysteric and drama queen I'll give you a pass given you really have a limited capacity for distinguishing reality from the wingnut pablum you're so fond of.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Benghazi makes Nixon look like a candy striper.."
Iraq makes the Republicans look like fascist war mongerers.
Which they are.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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even when he makes perfect sense of this you continue to fail to grasp what is going on. I think most are tired of it.
if nothing else you prove entertaining... well... at least the responses to your nonsense (Joseph) are entertaining.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Ron, no matter what you think about Obama's performance, the death toll on his watch is nowhere close to what ShrubCheneyCo® wrought upon this world.
Not sayin' I approve of Obama's policies necessarily...but your comparison has no rational basis.
Edit: And we all know goddam well what that death toll would look like if McLame or Rmoney had made it to the WH.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 02:49pm PT
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What's Obama hiding? According to Republicans: Zero!
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/23/world/middleeast/republican-led-benghazi-inquiry-largely-backs-administration.html
WASHINGTON — A report released late Friday about the fatal 2012 attacks in Benghazi, Libya, left Republicans in the same position they have been in for two years: with little evidence to support their most damning critiques of how the Obama administration, and then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, responded to the attacks.
Similar to five other government reports, the one released by the House Intelligence Committee on Friday said that the administration had not intentionally misled the public about what occurred during the attacks in talking points it created for officials to use in television appearances that turned out to be inaccurate.
It also said that no order was given by the military to “stand down” in responding to try to save the four Americans killed in the attacks, a claim that Republicans have made based on the account of a member of the security team in Benghazi that day...
...The panel found that in the days after the attacks, there was contradictory intelligence about what precipitated them and who was behind them. Ultimately, Ms. Rice’s assertions were wrong, the committee said, but there was no evidence that the administration was attempting to misconstrue the facts. Even today, the report said, the government is still uncertain about much of what happened that day.
“Much of the early intelligence was conflicting, and two years later, intelligence gaps remain,” the report said. A mix of individuals, “including those affiliated” with Al Qaeda, participated in the attacks, it said, adding, however, that “the intelligence was and remains conflicting about the identities, affiliations and motivations of the attackers.”
Chances that even "reasonable" Republicans like John will have their "reasonable" questions answered by these findings: Zero!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 22, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
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R.I.P. Vile Rat
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 22, 2014 - 05:17pm PT
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That report means nothing, they only completed seven investigations when it was released. The Repugs need to do at least a dozen investigations before they realize that they are wrong.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 05:19pm PT
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The rightwing idiots fell for the Benghazi Hoax, they will fall for the rightwing media explanation. Rove & Co. aren't going to give up that easily. They have no morals, no conscious.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 05:30pm PT
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Meanwhile, we await the apologies...
Cragman
Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Nov 1, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
"Barack Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American society." Clint Eastwood
Leaders lead....Obama went to Vegas....
...while Americans died.
He knows he dropped the ball.....and now waits until after the election to allow any sense of truth to come out.
Those of you who voted him in...bear this as well.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Nov 22, 2014 - 06:16pm PT
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What's Obama hiding about Benghazi? How about the Republicans refused to fund upgrading security for embassies before it went down!
On August 1, 2014 the House Intelligence Committee, led by Republicans, concluded that there was no deliberate wrongdoing by the Obama administration in the 2012 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi,[291] and that news briefing given by the administration reflected the conflicting intelligence assessments in the days immediately following the crisis.
~ from Wikipedia
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
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That's an inconvenient fact, Mark. Don't expect the Republican-controlled committee's latest politically motivated "investigation" to dwell on it.
The new report is devastating to the hoaxster's. Trust that the rightwing will still soldier on with this nonsense, hoping to put Hillary in a bad light. Won't work now.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 22, 2014 - 06:23pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
Aug 3, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
HEY RIGHT WINGERS...
Where is your outrage over a recent war started by a republican administration...you know...the guys you voted for TWICE...
that was started under FALSE PRETENSES, gross INCOMPETENCE, and outright LIES...
and that killed OVER 1000 TIMES MORE AMERICANS than the four killed in Benghazi?
If you are not seething in anger over that war...
And if you are not DEMANDING CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS into the incompetence and outright lies leading to that debacle...
Then SHUT THE F*#K UP, you miserable HYPOCRITES!
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 06:38pm PT
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A 2-year hoax, up in smoke.
WASHINGTON — A report released late Friday about the fatal 2012 attacks in Benghazi, Libya, left Republicans in the same position they have been in for two years: with little evidence to support their most damning critiques of how the Obama administration, and then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, responded to the attacks.
Similar to five other government reports, the one released by the House Intelligence Committee on Friday said that the administration had not intentionally misled the public about what occurred during the attacks in talking points it created for officials to use in television appearances that turned out to be inaccurate.
It also said that no order was given by the military to “stand down” in responding to try to save the four Americans killed in the attacks, a claim that Republicans have made based on the account of a member of the security team in Benghazi that day.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 22, 2014 - 06:46pm PT
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"A report released late Friday about the fatal 2012 attacks in Benghazi, Libya, left Republicans in the same position they have been in for two years: with little evidence to support their most damning critiques of how the Obama administration, and then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, responded to the attacks."
Problem is, the damage is done. This is Republican Politics 101- instill doubt and fear about anything...be persistent about it, as this will eventually become 'fact' in the simpleminded masses. No amount of facts or reality will then change the mind of the indoctrinated.
For hardcore RepugNutz, this really isn't relevant, because they are going to remain entrenched in their wingnuttery no matter how ridiculous their chosen 'leadership' (witness: Shrub, Rmoney).
Where it matters is with the precious few amongst the electorate who will & can sway one direction or the other. Fact revelations like this are like arriving to the party two weeks after it's over. It's over.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
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^^^
True, but with the new "investigation" (Gowdy) coming, this report will loom large.
You're right, however, that the rightwing flock will mostly stick with the hoax scenario. Facts don't matter much to this gang.
Can't peel off the bumper stickers.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Nov 22, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
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Apogee, thank you for standing so clearly on the issue of what party pushed so hard for our last two unjustified wars and manufactured evidence to justify it. It does not honor the military to ask them to fight for causes that do not enhance our security. And, we do further the dishonor by wearing pins and making gestures while, at the same time, refusing fund the needs of vets or to truly honor their service by supporting them to be completely reabsorbed into civilian society.
Makes one wonder why we were ever enmeshed in Afghanistan or Iraq when we could have addressed the terrorists involved in 9/11 through special ops supported from an aircraft carrier, taken the gloves off, gotten it done, and called it a day. We could never fix either country - the populace there utimately has to choose differently. All kinds of empires have tried to "fix" Afghanistan beginning with Alexander and all of them have failed, often as those empires went into decline as a result.
Oh, yeah, if you want to know why things happen, you have to follow the money. How much did Haliburton profit our involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq? And who was advocating for Halliburton? What military contractors were chomping at the bit and what oil companies expected to get the contracts to rebuild the oil industry in Iraq?
Makes the Republican use of the Benghazi tragedy sound like the Great Oz demanding to "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 22, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
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Just keepin' it real, Mark.
That report will not make Cheef, or TGT, or Rong, or any number of hardcore braindamaged Repugnutz reconsider their position on BBBEEEENNNGGGHHHAAAZZZIIII!.....they will simply brush it aside, and find the next thing to hate on.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 07:33pm PT
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Cragman
Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Nov 1, 2012 - 10:25pm PT
Keep in mind that in less time than what has elapsed since Obama began the coverup of what happened in Benghazi, President Bush was bringing down the wrath of our armed forces in Afghanistan on the Taliban heads.....half a world away.
Cragman
Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Nov 1, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
You guys are unbelievable.....we get attacked on 9-11-01 and our president takes the fight to the enemy.
We get attacked on 9-11-12 and our president ignores cries for help from SEALS...and goes to Vegas.
End of story.
Cragman
Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Nov 1, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
healyje, it's only that the ENTIRE rest of the media is so pro Obama liberal, and know that the TRUTH will hurt their boy....that's why the truth is not being sought.
FOX is willing to tell the truth...wise up.
Fox is telling the truth about the liberal's "boy". Shameful.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 22, 2014 - 07:37pm PT
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^^^
Does he consider that a good thing?
Wonder how he'd feel if it was his daughter over there fighting?
First rule of war: politicians & their family members go first. We'll see just how many wars we wind up in, then.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Nov 22, 2014 - 07:55pm PT
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BEENNNNNNGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZ----IIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Nov 22, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
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First rule of war: politicians & their family members go first. We'll see just how many wars we wind up in, then.
I second the motion...
It boggles my mind that people who appear to be intelligent, often quite intelligent, will watch Fox News and not realize it is "infotainment" and not impartial reporting. MSNBC likes to spin their facts, but at least they start with facts. The Fox News crew just figures that saying made up sh#t over and over again very loudly and abnoxiously makes it true.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
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And don't even start with this nutjob...
Nov 7, 2012 - 01:05pm PT
I made several predictions at the very start of all of this. each one has been proven out now. Yes obama passed blame to billary, and yes now factions of the libyan govt and police have been implicated. This WASNT hard to figure out from DAY ONE. Exacting intel of the compound and safe houses, and the locations of the attackers with mortar rounds was all one needed to hear to KNOW this would be the case. This is pretty simple stuff.
Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Nov 7, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
you guys THINK benghazi is just gonna fade away?? BWAAAHHAHA. obama has some tap dancin comin up.
Glad to know dead brave americans are just campaign shyt to some of you..
It gets more stupid...
Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Nov 7, 2012 - 04:10pm PT
There were close by on alert,, fiddling with gear,, waiting to go do it. And thats a fakt Reilly..
but as ive said many times, i was stunned when i learned obama decided to rely on a militia that contained muslim brotherhood members as "security". And that was basically IT for protection in behgazi,, other than two Bad Ass Soldiers that held em off for 7 hours...
7 hours,, the situation room was informed.. Wonder how many meals were ordered in or gone out for? Maybe a snipper or two of brandy with it as you "discussed" the situatuion. hell i dont know..
Or this one...
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 1, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
Obama ...... and HIllery...
a couple of blundering wanabees...
To leave Americans unprotected and to let them be killed..
100% shamefull
and then to LIE, just like GWB did to all of US shows ME that they are all in IT together...
We be doomed intill WE wake up and flush all of them down the drain.
:(
Or this...
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 2, 2013 - 10:28am PT
The Obama administration is obviously hiding something.
Whatever it is, it's worse than anything that's been speculated so far.
I guess all that *transparency* talk during the elections was just more Obama bullsh#t.
Can't forget one of the worst...
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
Aug 1, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/01/exclusive-dozens-of-cia-operatives-on-the-ground-during-benghazi-attack/?on.cnn=1
Sources now tell CNN dozens of people working for the CIA were on the ground that night, and that the agency is going to great lengths to make sure whatever it was doing, remains a secret.
CNN has learned the CIA is involved in what one source calls an unprecedented attempt to keep the spy agency's Benghazi secrets from ever leaking out.
Since January, some CIA operatives involved in the agency's missions in Libya, have been subjected to frequent, even monthly polygraph examinations, according to a source with deep inside knowledge of the agency's workings.
The goal of the questioning, according to sources, is to find out if anyone is talking to the media or Congress.
Among the many secrets still yet to be told about the Benghazi mission, is just how many Americans were there the night of the attack.
A source now tells CNN that number was 35, with as many as seven wounded, some seriously.
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
Nov 2, 2012 - 11:02pm PT
When Barry called the Seals they killed Bin Laden for him.
When the Seals called Barry,
he never answered the phone.
You can't make this stuff up.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 22, 2014 - 10:49pm PT
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 24, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
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This is the sixth report that has been done on Benghazi...they all say the same thing.
Which is: there's nothing to be seen.
You fanatical Repubs just can't accept reality, can you?
I mean...if you could at least be honest enough to admit this bullshit is nothing more than a political strategy of obfuscation & obstruction, at least you'd be straight up about it.
If that's not the case, you're left looking as fanatical as any other tin-hatted 9/11 conspiracy whacknuts you prefer to spit at.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 24, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
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Are you going to believe the Republicans?
Here we have The Gang Who Can't Shoot Straight being bailed out by The Other Gang Who Can't Shoot Straight.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 25, 2014 - 06:23am PT
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They do now, Bill. Here's your dinner of...crow. Pass it around.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 25, 2014 - 07:15am PT
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Sentence FIRST, verdict AFTER!!!
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 25, 2014 - 07:16am PT
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Rightwing Feast!!!!
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 25, 2014 - 07:58am PT
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From now on, every time some rightie nutjob bitches about Benghazi, I'm donating $1 to the Hillary for president fund, when it is established.
(Excluding c &p posts, or the like, to run up totals.).
Finally, right wing bitching will be put to god use.
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Barbarian
climber
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Nov 25, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
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This just in: Issa plans another investigation into Beghazi!
Oh....sorry...just old news that has been repeated ad nauseum.
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couchmaster
climber
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Nov 25, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
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Blam, Hillarys campaign is now fully funded. LOL
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 26, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
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Love Gail Collins...
Counting Benghazi Blessings
This year, in a break from tradition, I am giving thanks for the House Intelligence Committee’s final report on Benghazi.
Also family and friends. But I give thanks for them every year. This is our first opportunity to be grateful for the House Intelligence Committee’s Benghazi report. So let’s jump at it.
Really, you don’t get good news like this all the time. The committee spent two years conducting a bipartisan investigation into the terrible night in 2012 when four Americans, including the Libyan ambassador, were killed in a violent attack on an American compound. It found that while mistakes were made, the Americans on the ground in Libya made reasonable decisions, as did the people trying to support them. The C.I.A. was brave and effective. Nobody in the White House thwarted a possible rescue or deliberately tried to mislead the public about what happened.
Whew. You can imagine the excitement when this report was unveiled. Or, actually, quietly posted on the committee’s website. On Friday evening. On the eve of a holiday week.
The Intelligence Committee is, of course, led by members of the Republican majority. The only time Republicans don’t talk about Benghazi, it turns out, is when they report about their findings.
The silence was pretty deafening. Except for Senator Lindsey Graham, who helpfully told CNN: “I think the report’s full of crap.” And Newt Gingrich, who theorized that the Intelligence Committee had been “co-opted by the C.I.A.”
Newt knows. (“I’ve talked to four different people who have a real interest in this topic at a professional level. They are appalled by this report.”)
There have always been two ways of looking at Benghazi. One is as a terrible loss that might have been mitigated if the diplomatic compounds had been better protected, and that the State Department needs to rethink its traditional bureaucratic approach to overseeing security. The other, far more exciting, possibility is that this is all about Obama-Clinton perfidy. Was there a team of potential rescuers who were kept away from the fray because the administration didn’t want to admit it had underestimated the terror threat in Libya? Representative Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Oversight Committee, confided at a Republican fund-raising dinner that he had “suspicions” that Hillary Clinton told then-Defense Secretary Leon Panetta “to stand down.” The Intelligence Committee didn’t find any evidence whatsoever that that had occurred. But they were, you know, co-opted.
The committee and its staff spent what one Democratic member said was “thousands of hours” reading intelligence reports, cables and emails about the incident. It was a heck of a commitment. Although, to be fair, surely no more than the House Armed Services Committee, the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which have been looking into exactly the same events and coming up with pretty much the same conclusions.
Still to come: A special $3.3 million House Committee that Speaker John Boehner has created to pursue what Chairman Trey Gowdy of South Carolina says will be the “final, definitive accounting of the attack.” The effort is needed, Boehner said, because the “American people still have far too many questions” to let the inquiries drop now after nobody has had a chance to look into the matter except a special independent review board, the House Intelligence Committee, the House Armed Services Committee, the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
And then, of course, there’s the House Oversight Committee, under the irrepressible Representative Issa, which shows no sign of wrapping up its Benghazi investigations. Issa has already sent Gowdy a 37-page letter listing what he said were State Department efforts to obstruct his probes. But he’s required to step down as chairman at the end of the year, and his replacement, Jason Chaffetz of Utah, seems to be planning a less lively approach. The top Democrat on the committee, Elijah Cummings, said Chaffetz had shown “a sincere interest in working together,” as opposed to Issa’s sincere interest, at one point, in cutting off Cummings’s microphone at a public hearing.
We give thanks for all the congressional investigations into Benghazi. Who says Congress can’t reduce unemployment? In March, the Defense Department said that it had devoted “thousands of man-hours to responding to numerous and often repetitive congressional requests regarding Benghazi, which includes time devoted to approximately 50 congressional hearings, briefings and interviews” at a cost of “millions of dollars.”
Meanwhile, there are rumblings from some Senate Republicans that what the next Congress needs is a good joint House-Senate Benghazi investigation. On the other hand, the House Agricultural Committee seems to have no interest whatsoever in initiating a probe. For this, we are truly thankful.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Nov 27, 2014 - 09:54am PT
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Here is the link for Gail Collins' op/ed - http://nyti.ms/1Cj1gnE
Guess the Republicans have to keep "studying" the Benghazi issue until they get the "objective" result they want.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:02am PT
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"Blam, Hillarys campaign is now fully funded. "
Waitaminit....there's lots of Republicans saying this is the death knell for Hillary's campaign...
Which is it?
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:03am PT
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The Benghazi Hoax has been exposed. The wingNUT base won't let go, but normal people will. The Fox crazies aren't going to vote for Hillary anyway.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:10am PT
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No, but they're sticking with their 'say it enough times & it becomes truth' strategy, 'cuz that's all they got.
Matter of fact, expect the 'double down' anytime now....
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