Ashira and 14c- Thoughts?

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Messages 141 - 160 of total 220 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
klk

Trad climber
cali
Oct 31, 2012 - 12:15am PT
rad. that is so kuehl.


ewe old phuckers better prey she doesnt take up "trad" climbing.

for a start, lucille would become a 5.6 chimney. supercrack would be an easy layback.

she's still at an age where she learns languages overnight. how long would it take her to learn how to place a hex? it's not brain science.

alpinism is another question. experience counts there because you build up a local vocabulary of conditions.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:23am PT
Oh f*#k my life! Why didn't I start climbing before 24?!? Should I quit now? Since it is obviously useless to continue.


Wow, way to misread my post Vitaliy. Thanks to GDavis for puttin' it rite.


"MOST" was the word I used. I repeat "MOST" .



Carry on.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:24am PT
in the latest Real Rock Film Tour there was a video of Sharma and Ondra working a Sharma project in Spain... I thought for sure I wouldn't like it at all, not that I have anything against endless scenes of repeated grunting-while-hucking-for-holds-on-overhanging-faces activities that I couldn't ever touch...

the main point of the video, besides showing the protagonists in a golden light (Chris was the "old man" in this one!) was that they didn't succeed, it was a whole video in which they failed.

that is so much more genuine that I actually fell for it...

We all try to do things that are too hard for us to do, at least in climbing. It is a great activity that way, it is unique. There is no way I can participate in the World Series or the Super Bowl or the World Cup, but I can attempt Midnight Lightning and even get cheered on by our "sport's" superstars (as had been reported in a TR elsewhere on this site by someone).

Yosemite is open, it is the Super Bowl and we can go there and play the game at any level... or challenge ourselves to. And at every level there is accomplishment and satisfaction and achievement.

While we complain as a group about the popularity of climbing (at least us old crustys) we somehow loss sight of the fact that we have an intensely personal affinity to going out and climbing. Who cares who else is doing it... I'm doing it

Hudon and Croft and Donini and many others (Freddy, you're up there too!) are inspirational to me, hopefully to others much younger than me, because they get out there and climb at a high level, still, and they still have an ocean of enthusiasm for it... they're obviously having fun, and perhaps getting something more meaningful out of it too.

And the young climbers are also inspirational, and amazing, because they represent climbing and are actually taking it somewhere, and they do it as a part of the historical progression, giving their own twist on it, bringing their innovations and their fresh look.

I remember the first time I saw Yosemite Valley, the March morning I woke up after the late night drive in. I don't see the Valley like that, exactly, anymore, but I know there are those who do, and I'm excited for them.

Ashira is legitimately doing hard routes and deserves the recognition. Who knows or even who cares what she'll do with it, I hope she's having at least as much fun as I am.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:26am PT
how long would it take her to learn how to place a hex? it's not brain science.

And she's Japanese - have you SEEN their arcade games?! That sh#t be intricate.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:35am PT
yikes, I was the only one who mentioned "alpine" and got slapped down by Gadd for it...
hopefully I wasn't so incoherent to have been interpreted as opining alpine is the epitome of climbing!

rather it is demonstrably different than sport climbing, I believe Alex Lowe was also accomplished in that, but the indifference of objective hazards to one's hardest red-point ability was tragic.

Certainly on the other side of the frontier I was talking about...
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Oct 31, 2012 - 04:05am PT
The only thing that creeps me out about this is the "already trained under several talented coaches" bit. Like in gymnastics where they make the kids starve themselves to put off the onset of puberty so they can stay competetive?

Or doing hormones or other drugs for the same purpose? Adults should not be channeling their goals into little kids, just let them do what they want, what is fun for them. Think about all those creepy gymnastics coaches you see at the bigtime meets. Do you want your kid mentally dominated by people like that?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 31, 2012 - 11:20am PT
^^^^

Having a coach != taking steroids and starving yourself.



Geez louis, stop projecting. Way to cast judgement before ever meeting her, or her parents.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Oct 31, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
Like in gymnastics where they make the kids starve themselves to put off the onset of puberty so they can stay competetive?

Or doing hormones or other drugs for the same purpose? Adults should not be channeling their goals into little kids, just let them do what they want, what is fun for them. Think about all those creepy gymnastics coaches you see at the bigtime meets. Do you want your kid mentally dominated by people like that?


Wow, nick, go big or go home, eh?

Women's gymnastics has a bad rap for the coach-parent-athlete triad gone wrong. Yes there are obvious and ghastly incidents of child abuse in the sport - whether it's parents living vicariously through their daughter or coaches allowing their ego to push the child.

I have witnessed both behaviors in gymnastics but I've also seen it in other competitive kids sports as well. Hockey comes to mind right away ( my son played for 7 years; my daughter for 4 )

I've also witnessed strong, flexible girls who are self-motivated and who work hard (I teach several who fit this description ) and are between the ages of 8 and 11. These girls LOVE their sport, LOVE to train and get really good really fast.

I don't know Ashima but I would most certainly NOT immediately cast her situation into one of pushing parents and coaches.

Indeed I am inclined to think she is one of those really motivated and physically capable girls who LOVES her sport and does REALLY well at it.

She challenges our impressions of what we know as "climbing" in a powerfully positive manner.

Here's wishing Ashima the very best in her endeavours.
CalicoJack

climber
CA
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:03pm PT
Routes just are. Difficulty is an individual issue, stemming from the confluence of the climber's characteristics with those of the route. Our numbers are imperfect assemblages of individually assessed difficulties from each climber's internally relative scale, which of course is tempered to some degree by interactions with the 'consensus'. How can we truly know what the difficulties are for any given individual, short of intensively scrutinizing their morphometrics, psychological state, etc. and considering these factors in terms of each section of each route they attempt? And even then...

Every meeting of route and climber is so complex, but the outcome is pretty binary - climbed or not. Ashima has climbed some amazing routes, and that is amazing!

Much respect & best wishes to her,

Andy
AKDOG

Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
The only thing that creeps me out about this is the "already trained under several talented coaches" bit. Like in gymnastics where they make the kids starve themselves to put off the onset of puberty so they can stay competetive?

Or doing hormones or other drugs for the same purpose? Adults should not be channeling their goals into little kids, just let them do what they want, what is fun for them. Think about all those creepy gymnastics coaches you see at the bigtime meets. Do you want your kid mentally dominated by people like that?

One can definitely discuss the merits of young children doing rigorous training programs. As a physical therapist, I unfortunately see kids all the time with overuse injuries or traumatic injuries for sports, where I live the big sports for kids seem to be skiing, hockey and soccer. I am so out of it I didnít even know kids now need personal climbing coaches, but I guess like tennis, gymnastics, skiing, etc., you have to start young if you want to make a splash. I know for running it is very controversial in how much young kids should train. Runnerís peak later in life and over training can lead to injuries that just wonít go away. Most parents want their kids to be active, childhood obesity is a growing problem, but no parent wants their kids to get injured. Participation in sports provides a great opportunity for young people. But, if the demands and expectations exceed the maturation and readiness of the child, the positive aspects of participation can be negated.
The whole issue of parents and other adult involvement is another story altogether.

Climbing has evolved, when I was young no coaches or parent, climbing had a little antisocial tint to the game.

Hope she keeps ripping it up
Baggins

Boulder climber
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
Every meeting of route and climber is so complex, but the outcome is pretty binary - climbed or not. Ashima has climbed some amazing routes, and that is amazing!

Well said!
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
Not putting Honnold down one bit, he's one of my favorite climbers to be in awe of, but Ashima boulders harder than him. Lol.


Ashima does have some really good coaching.... But she's genetically gifted.

Do any of you tossers judging her by her "coaching, probably on hormone enhancer" know who her parents are?


They make way more money than you guys.
They're way more acrobatic than you guys.
They're way more positive than you guys.
They support her daughter %100 in what she wants to do.

Holy crap, an 11 year old who WANTS to CLIMB hard?


PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
I think it is great that she is 11 yrs old and is climbing hard stuff. But it is only sport climbing with a bolt like every 5 feet . It is not very risky at all. And comparing it to gymnastics and coaching is not appropriate gymnastics is way more difficult than sport climbing; And unfortunately requires alot of coaching. Now if she is high balling she is moving into a whole different mental/physical environment with real life consequences.
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
heresy...complete heresy...

word on the street is they beat her if she doesn't put big numbers up!!! [kidding, btw]
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
"I think it is great that she is 11 yrs old and is climbing hard stuff. But it is only sport climbing with a bolt like every 5 feet . It is not very risky at all. And comparing it to gymnastics and coaching is not appropriate gymnastics is way more difficult than sport climbing; And unfortunately requires alot of coaching. Now if she is high balling she is moving into a whole different mental/physical environment with real life consequences. "

you are clearly not in touch...14c is kind of hard...sort of almost world class...
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:31pm PT
PSP, why the f*ck would you want an 11yo to risk her life?

All you guys have ego problems. Seriously. It's an 11 year old, little girl. She's making v12 cruxes and linking them with easier v9+ cruxes. And you're degrading her accomplishments because they aren't risky?



Okay, go do Southern Belle. It's kind of like a sport climb. Go be risky. Tosser.
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
michaeld,

ondra's a punter...seriously, there's a bolt every 5 feet...ashima is a punter by associative property.

michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
These "climbers" trying to discredit an 11 year old of her V13 / 5.14c accomplishments have no idea. They probably think they're cool when projecting v4's or v5's in the gym.
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
To me, climbing is firstly about movement. Of course there are other things, like camaraderie, commitment, love of the outdoors, etc. Some people have a special gift for movement. Michael Jordan could seemingly change direction in mid air. The best climbers, at least in terms of the grading system, are those with the greatest kinesthetic intelligence. With climbing's ever increasing popularity, we're certainly going to tap deeper into the gene pool.

To suggest that someone who is so gifted to be able to do high-end sport climbing couldn't learn to do repetitive movement in cracks or slabs or ice is ridiculous. It's all ego. Everyone's project is someone's warmup. Climbing is a lot more fun when you can let go of that and just enjoy the climbing -- and the camaraderie.
BruceAnderson

Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
Oct 31, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
"there's a bolt every 5 feet.." Go watch the vid of Ondra onsighting Mind Control at Oliana, dude's running it out.
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