Ashira and 14c- Thoughts?

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Messages 141 - 160 of total 223 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Oct 31, 2012 - 04:05am PT
The only thing that creeps me out about this is the "already trained under several talented coaches" bit. Like in gymnastics where they make the kids starve themselves to put off the onset of puberty so they can stay competetive?

Or doing hormones or other drugs for the same purpose? Adults should not be channeling their goals into little kids, just let them do what they want, what is fun for them. Think about all those creepy gymnastics coaches you see at the bigtime meets. Do you want your kid mentally dominated by people like that?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 31, 2012 - 11:20am PT
^^^^

Having a coach != taking steroids and starving yourself.



Geez louis, stop projecting. Way to cast judgement before ever meeting her, or her parents.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Oct 31, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
Like in gymnastics where they make the kids starve themselves to put off the onset of puberty so they can stay competetive?

Or doing hormones or other drugs for the same purpose? Adults should not be channeling their goals into little kids, just let them do what they want, what is fun for them. Think about all those creepy gymnastics coaches you see at the bigtime meets. Do you want your kid mentally dominated by people like that?


Wow, nick, go big or go home, eh?

Women's gymnastics has a bad rap for the coach-parent-athlete triad gone wrong. Yes there are obvious and ghastly incidents of child abuse in the sport - whether it's parents living vicariously through their daughter or coaches allowing their ego to push the child.

I have witnessed both behaviors in gymnastics but I've also seen it in other competitive kids sports as well. Hockey comes to mind right away ( my son played for 7 years; my daughter for 4 )

I've also witnessed strong, flexible girls who are self-motivated and who work hard (I teach several who fit this description ) and are between the ages of 8 and 11. These girls LOVE their sport, LOVE to train and get really good really fast.

I don't know Ashima but I would most certainly NOT immediately cast her situation into one of pushing parents and coaches.

Indeed I am inclined to think she is one of those really motivated and physically capable girls who LOVES her sport and does REALLY well at it.

She challenges our impressions of what we know as "climbing" in a powerfully positive manner.

Here's wishing Ashima the very best in her endeavours.
CalicoJack

climber
CA
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:03pm PT
Routes just are. Difficulty is an individual issue, stemming from the confluence of the climber's characteristics with those of the route. Our numbers are imperfect assemblages of individually assessed difficulties from each climber's internally relative scale, which of course is tempered to some degree by interactions with the 'consensus'. How can we truly know what the difficulties are for any given individual, short of intensively scrutinizing their morphometrics, psychological state, etc. and considering these factors in terms of each section of each route they attempt? And even then...

Every meeting of route and climber is so complex, but the outcome is pretty binary - climbed or not. Ashima has climbed some amazing routes, and that is amazing!

Much respect & best wishes to her,

Andy
AKDOG

Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
The only thing that creeps me out about this is the "already trained under several talented coaches" bit. Like in gymnastics where they make the kids starve themselves to put off the onset of puberty so they can stay competetive?

Or doing hormones or other drugs for the same purpose? Adults should not be channeling their goals into little kids, just let them do what they want, what is fun for them. Think about all those creepy gymnastics coaches you see at the bigtime meets. Do you want your kid mentally dominated by people like that?

One can definitely discuss the merits of young children doing rigorous training programs. As a physical therapist, I unfortunately see kids all the time with overuse injuries or traumatic injuries for sports, where I live the big sports for kids seem to be skiing, hockey and soccer. I am so out of it I didnít even know kids now need personal climbing coaches, but I guess like tennis, gymnastics, skiing, etc., you have to start young if you want to make a splash. I know for running it is very controversial in how much young kids should train. Runnerís peak later in life and over training can lead to injuries that just wonít go away. Most parents want their kids to be active, childhood obesity is a growing problem, but no parent wants their kids to get injured. Participation in sports provides a great opportunity for young people. But, if the demands and expectations exceed the maturation and readiness of the child, the positive aspects of participation can be negated.
The whole issue of parents and other adult involvement is another story altogether.

Climbing has evolved, when I was young no coaches or parent, climbing had a little antisocial tint to the game.

Hope she keeps ripping it up
Baggins

Boulder climber
Oct 31, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
Every meeting of route and climber is so complex, but the outcome is pretty binary - climbed or not. Ashima has climbed some amazing routes, and that is amazing!

Well said!
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
Not putting Honnold down one bit, he's one of my favorite climbers to be in awe of, but Ashima boulders harder than him. Lol.


Ashima does have some really good coaching.... But she's genetically gifted.

Do any of you tossers judging her by her "coaching, probably on hormone enhancer" know who her parents are?


They make way more money than you guys.
They're way more acrobatic than you guys.
They're way more positive than you guys.
They support her daughter %100 in what she wants to do.

Holy crap, an 11 year old who WANTS to CLIMB hard?


PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
I think it is great that she is 11 yrs old and is climbing hard stuff. But it is only sport climbing with a bolt like every 5 feet . It is not very risky at all. And comparing it to gymnastics and coaching is not appropriate gymnastics is way more difficult than sport climbing; And unfortunately requires alot of coaching. Now if she is high balling she is moving into a whole different mental/physical environment with real life consequences.
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
heresy...complete heresy...

word on the street is they beat her if she doesn't put big numbers up!!! [kidding, btw]
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
"I think it is great that she is 11 yrs old and is climbing hard stuff. But it is only sport climbing with a bolt like every 5 feet . It is not very risky at all. And comparing it to gymnastics and coaching is not appropriate gymnastics is way more difficult than sport climbing; And unfortunately requires alot of coaching. Now if she is high balling she is moving into a whole different mental/physical environment with real life consequences. "

you are clearly not in touch...14c is kind of hard...sort of almost world class...
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:31pm PT
PSP, why the f*ck would you want an 11yo to risk her life?

All you guys have ego problems. Seriously. It's an 11 year old, little girl. She's making v12 cruxes and linking them with easier v9+ cruxes. And you're degrading her accomplishments because they aren't risky?



Okay, go do Southern Belle. It's kind of like a sport climb. Go be risky. Tosser.
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
michaeld,

ondra's a punter...seriously, there's a bolt every 5 feet...ashima is a punter by associative property.

michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
These "climbers" trying to discredit an 11 year old of her V13 / 5.14c accomplishments have no idea. They probably think they're cool when projecting v4's or v5's in the gym.
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Oct 31, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
To me, climbing is firstly about movement. Of course there are other things, like camaraderie, commitment, love of the outdoors, etc. Some people have a special gift for movement. Michael Jordan could seemingly change direction in mid air. The best climbers, at least in terms of the grading system, are those with the greatest kinesthetic intelligence. With climbing's ever increasing popularity, we're certainly going to tap deeper into the gene pool.

To suggest that someone who is so gifted to be able to do high-end sport climbing couldn't learn to do repetitive movement in cracks or slabs or ice is ridiculous. It's all ego. Everyone's project is someone's warmup. Climbing is a lot more fun when you can let go of that and just enjoy the climbing -- and the camaraderie.
BruceAnderson

Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
Oct 31, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
"there's a bolt every 5 feet.." Go watch the vid of Ondra onsighting Mind Control at Oliana, dude's running it out.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 31, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
"the first poster says he wonders if she understands the life threatening consequences of the sport" she doesn't she is only 11 yrs old and it is sport climbing where you can take fall after fall with little or no consequences. It is the nature of sport climbing, climbing with very little risk; if you love it great have fun, personnally I find it a bit boring. BTW my first sentence was " I think it is great that she is 11 yrs old and she is sending hard stuff" . and if Ondra is running out sport climbing I say good for him it's about time someone did.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 31, 2012 - 03:59pm PT
Maybe you should try to see how hard you can push yourself on sport. But whatever you're into.


Running out sport on overhanging face isn't that cool. Just means you have a greater chance of plummeting into the less steep terrain below
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 31, 2012 - 04:55pm PT
It's pretty obvious who is just reading the first few sentances from the OP and replying.

The threads got enough pages now that people aren't browsing counter arguments, kind of funny. Like, right after refuting a point it will get brought up by someone who felt the need to vomit their thoughts out to the world.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 31, 2012 - 04:56pm PT
and if Ondra is running out sport climbing I say good for him it's about time someone did.

Just my .02, he isn't doing it to be bold, he's probably doing it because he can't stop.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 31, 2012 - 05:11pm PT
BUT BEING BOLD AND DANGEROUS IS WHAT CLIMBING IS ALL ABOUT.


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