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healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
The best way to support Israel is to support the Palestinian efforts to restore statehood to Palestine. That's also the best way to support our troops. Oh, and the Palestinians aren't a terrorist state any more than we were during the revolutionary war; they are responding to the main terrorism happening which is Israeli settlements carving up the last of the west bank.




healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
So what? You expect them to do nothing while the Israelis steal the last of their land? How would you respond? You'd get weapons wherever you could find them.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
Yes, and we supply Israel? I'm sure all the dead really care who supplied the munitions. And, apparently, their munitions aren't as good as ours anyway with those 10:1 odds on the children 'n all.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
Go back a page and look at that map. It's the whole story.

We supply Israel with both weapons and the funds to make and buy additional weaponry. No one in the region can compete head to head any more than we could go head to head with the English in the revolutionary war.

When decade after decade we support Israel to the absolute exclusion of all others in the region, particularly the scattered palestinian diaspora, you'd have to be an idiot to think sooner or later there wouldn't be slap up the side of the head to get our attention. That was 9/11 and they used what weapons were at their disposal.

As far as IEDs go, we just invested a decade and 4-6 trillion dollars perfecting them and advancing asymmetric warfare to another level of sophistication compared to the Afghan war. We did that. We've done all of it and our one-sided support of Israel is why we have so many dead in other parts of the Mideast.

Either make Israel the 51st state or bring balance to the region by forcing Israel to make peace - either one will do. Failure to do one or the other will simply translate into more dead American troops in the Mideast.

One would think at some point you'd actually 'get it' - but apparently not...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
healyje makes a lot of sense to my mind. But who knows, maybe the tactics of the crusades will pay off despite the proof of centuries saying the opposite.

It is funny (in a bad way) that our country did the most to help create the networks now working against us.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Dec 1, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
Congratulations to Palestine for their new status with the UN.
The hardcore Zionist of Israel have never wanted peace with the indigenous peoples.
If they thought they could get away with it they would be brutal to the point of total genocide.
As it is they feign interest in the peace process while slowly strangling the life out of Palestine.
Death by slow starvation.
QITNL

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
My mom just returned from a trip to Palestine. She went with this group.

http://www.fosna.org/content/womens-witness-trip-nov-8-17-2012

Friends of Sabeel-North America (FOSNA) is a non-profit, tax-exempt Christian ecumenical organization seeking justice and peace in the Holy Land through non-violence and education.

If you're not a scared little man hiding behind a computer, here's a trip for you:

http://www.fosna.org/content/sabeel-tree-life-trip-jan-2-14-2013

Otherwise I think I could safely conclude:

MY 77 YEAR OLD MOM HAS BIGGER BALLS THAN YOU!!!!!!!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 1, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
I've said it before,the palestinian's worst enemy is their own leadership.
They're corrupt nihilists without a viable agenda. Look at the millions
Arafat squirreled away in Switzerland. You think the current bunch is
Any different?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
You think the current bunch is any different?

Yes, Hamas isn't going to take no for an answer and spend decades lining their pockets. They want a state of Palestine and aren't willing to watch the last of the West Bank taken from them or sit idly by while Gaza is for all intents and purposes a prison, and I don't blame them a bit for that.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 1, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
All that really comes across reading Rong's and Blue's posts is how confused and desperate they are

They just never seem to grasp anything even faintly resembling reality, instead they cling to wingnut propaganda and invented fantasies, because...well who knows why, hatred of Obama perhaps, along with arrested development of course, and the need for attention

But in a way they're good for the country, because the willfully ignorant are all the repubs have left to pander to, which hastens the repub party's demise, of course.

You people think you're so smart, so compassionate. And me and Ronnie are castigated as stupid ole' rednecks. That's fine. I accept and I know Ron does too.

What's weird is you people deny discussion and call us stupid, because we're too stupid. Who's the f*#king stupid one?

I'm trying to engage you in discussion, and you always walk~! Let's talk.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 1, 2012 - 06:14pm PT
Healy, how is picking a fight with a vastly superior enemy and
thereby getting mostly civilians killed doing any good?

How is continuing to call for the destruction of Israel at all constructive?

How is the continuance of this nihilistic approach going to get the
Palestinians out of the hell hole lives they lead?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
Ron: Like i said,, i do agree on the ill dealings of the past in regards to the ME, but NOTHING will change that now..

When it comes to the muslim brotherhood- obviously a radical islamist faction, should any sensible person be for the spread of that at THIS point?

The brotherhood was an entirely predictable response in a post-colonial Mideast dominated by dictators propped up by the West.

Ron: Personally I wanted a hands off approach to them all

Too late - the neocons already screwed that pooch.

Ron: Obama has even pre-budgeted for attacking Iran.

No, he hasn't. The military costs of the consequences of an Israeli strike on Iran will be put entirely on the national credit card just like the past three wars have been.

Ron: We've seen the results of diplomacy in dealing with the brotherhood quite clearly now.

No, we're only just now starting to do any diplomacy with the brotherhood proper since Morsi assumed the presidency. The brotherhood could do anything it wanted prior to that, but now it is heavily constrained simply by the act of stepping onto the world stage. Now they have to do more than run community centers, foster unrest, and spout rhetoric - now they have to deliver in the light of day and that's a much harder proposition. We'll see how it all pans out, but we're just now getting our first glimpses of what diplomacy with the brotherhood will be like.

Ron: My friend in Iran says the only hope they have is that the USA kills their regime. But he isnt holding his breath because he knows about the monies flowing between us and them.

There are no significant "monies [of any kind] flowing between us and them."

Ron: Arming anyone any futher over in the ME is folly at this point. We saw how this comes around to bite you in the arse with fast and furious. Why engage that on a GRAND scale is beyond me.

F&F was a Bush project and has little relationship to what's going on over in the Mideast at the moment. Once again, arms are going to flow to conflict zones and we are either engaged or irrelevant.

Ron: So you can THINK that Palestine trying to reclaim lands is a good idea, but you back those who seek to do you harm as well. And the UN has ALWAYS been more harm to us than good. All we do is give them muscle when it benefits the brotherhood. That ISNT helping.

Ron, Ron, Ron, man...you really need to ditch all the Birch bullshit and wake the f*#k up dude. The UN / male essense paranoia is absolutely cartoonish. And you seem utterly obsessed and captivated by one boogiemen after another to the point it's like waving a feathered catnip ball on a string in front of a cat. Cartels, Brotherhoods, and TERRORIST STATES - oh my!!! Unfortunately, the world just isn't as simple as that - wish it were - but it ain't. Everything is action and reaction and some of those actions happened years, decades or even centuries ago; we still have to deal with it and our actions always take place against a moving backdrop. We don't own the pace or tempo of the events and our attempts to interjection and control events almost always backfire.

Maybe consider easing up on the simplicity and take a more nuanced approach to all these evil entities. While the "axis of evil" was brilliant political theatre in pandering to an uneducated audience, it did nothing to help anyone understand very real events on the ground. Anytime the politically-inclined attempt to pin the 'evil' tag on someone you should be highly suspicious of their motivations and spend a bit of time trying to actually understand a little of the actual events and history of those peoples.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
Healy, how is picking a fight with a vastly superior enemy and
thereby getting mostly civilians killed doing any good?

It's actually a very effective strategy, particularly given they didn't pick the turf and have no other options. It keeps world attention on the conflict, makes Israel look like the abused child grown up to be an abuser itself, forces Gulf states to action, and generates global sympathies for the votes in the general assembly like we just witnessed.

How is continuing to call for the destruction of Israel at all constructive?

They're not going to give that up until Israel permanently halts settlements and exhibits a willingness to negotiate a two-state solution in earnest. Hamas is the bad cop to Fatah's good cop - and it's effective.

How is the continuance of this nihilistic approach going to get the
Palestinians out of the hell hole lives they lead?

It's not the Hamas or Fatah who have been fostering the continuance of a nihilistic approach; that would be Israel who in fact does not want peace or a Palestinian state. The past three decades of the "peace process" have been a sham from the Israeli side and just a way to buy time while fragmenting the West Bank with settlements.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:26pm PT

Federal government does that sort of thing all the time to make states comply with regulations. Remember the National Minimum Drinking Act of 1984, which tied federal hwy funding to compliance? This "tax" effects 17 states, so people in those states need to take it up with their governor or pay a premium. From my end, it looks like the grandstanding leadership of those states are the ones making people pay more in healtcare. Or, more accurately, the insurance companies who will be passing the cost on as they are so apt to do.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:39pm PT
Gee, Healy, I guess then that the Israeli-Palestinian problem is the first
in the history of the world to be completely caused and resolveable only
by one side? AMAZING!
dirtbag

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
Credit: dirtbag
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
Is she your average Democrat?
John M

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
China has launched its new line of aircraft carriers.

N Korea threatens to test fire long range missiles for icbms.

Iran threatens to get nuclear weapon capabilities

Iran also supplies Gaza with weaponry


Our #1 enemy was being hidden by Pakistan and they arrested the source of the info to find him- and now rots in a pakistani jail somewhere.

Israel continues to battle hamas who continues to battle Israel. Hamas right now is encouraging its followers to launch missiles.

Our Ambassador and three other Brave Americans were murdered in Behgnazi

Libya, Egypt , Yemen, Syria, Burma are all under violent actions now.

all FACTS no???



see ANY common denominators in all of that?


I will take a stab..

A pony would make them all a little bit happier?


Gee Ron.. you sound like you are trying to blame all of that on Obama. Are you?
John M

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
Okay.. well.. what is?
John M

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
The muslim brotherhood built an aircraft carrier in China?

And they helped North Korea develop ICBMs?
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