Subject: Low-Load Climbing-Gym Fall Results In Rope Rupture

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landcruiserbob

Trad climber
the ville, colorado
May 22, 2006 - 02:01pm PT
It's a Troll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A three year old rope doesn't just break. Very few Gyms let you use your own rope!!!rg
Ain't no flatlander

climber
May 22, 2006 - 02:26pm PT
Almost certainly acid fumes if this isn't a troll. A close look at the fibers will reveal all. There are at least a half dozen known cases of ropes breaking due to exposure to acid so it is very plausible. Generally requires very close proximity to high concentrations of fumes. There is no visible indication of exposure prior to rupture. But you can easily spot the difference between a rope that has broken from high forces.
Tradboy

Social climber
Valley
May 22, 2006 - 02:34pm PT
A three year old rope doesn't just break.

I can't believe you just made this statement having no knowledge of its usage, fall history, and care.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
May 22, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
"Happpens all the time [ropes] just explode, natural causes." HaHa & apologies to the repoman script writers.

But really, the OP's scenario is the touchstone franchise lead test, described to a T. I thought it was lame that they didn't even look at the rope you use for the test (in my case a 20 yr old MSR that Might not have any crampon punctures) but WTF; their lawyers, their rules. BTW the landings in a worst case scenario are everything you could want.

They definitely encourage you to lead on your own ropes.


What Caught said about Rocknasium! Has cracks and allows dogs. Support your local non-generic climbing outlet!

Touchstone Concord has NO cracks! What were they thinking?

My vote is for evil chemicals surrounding the rope, in a car trunk. Since outright fabrication sounds less likely than it did.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
May 22, 2006 - 02:57pm PT
I always thought it was crazy that Rocknasium provided lead ropes. That gives them all the liability.

If Pipeworks inspected your ropes, then suddenly their liability would also go up. "Hands off" (just like the NPS doesn't inspect bolts on walls) is legally safer.
Professor Fate

Big Wall climber
Vulgaria
May 22, 2006 - 03:00pm PT
One of the gyms here in Vegas MAKES you use your own rope if you want to lead. It is their policy. I do not know about other areas.

I believe the story. I also think the rope had damage that was unknown.

Many things are possible that we do not realize.

Gotta roll!


wootles

climber
Gamma Quadrant
May 22, 2006 - 03:09pm PT
Would it be bad form to ask if he passed the test?
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
May 22, 2006 - 03:15pm PT
No ill will meant towards Rocknasium. I took a self-rescue class there when I was first starting to climb, and it was absolutely the best. I just remember being shocked at the icky ropes that the instructors were taking off the pile for lead-climbin'.
caughtinside

Social climber
Davis, CA
May 22, 2006 - 03:17pm PT
Cool. Just think of how many mouths have bitten those ratty old things before a clip! hahaha

(you can count me in that group.)
rocketsocks

climber
Bellevue, WA
May 22, 2006 - 03:44pm PT
This story seems questionable. Very few details in the original post, no name, no gym name, no location other than "a climbing gym in California" (that narrows it down a lot). And no mentions anywhere else, including rc.com and google news.
paganmonkeyboy

Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
May 22, 2006 - 04:05pm PT
i've been to a couple gyms that make you take a fall like this for the lead wall. both provided their own lead ropes, and rotated them frequently, though they would let you lead on your own rope no problem...and it always seemed to me that the lead ropes were in better shape than the TRs they leave up...

curious to see what some testing on this rope will show...it's been a long time since I have heard of a rope failure that didn't involve a cut of some sort, and never one such as this one is described...
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
May 22, 2006 - 04:12pm PT
"This story seems questionable. Very few details in the original post, no name, no gym name, no location other than "a climbing gym in California" (that narrows it down a lot). And no mentions anywhere else, including rc.com and google news."

I don't know why the original poster was so skimpy details.

However, it happened at Pipeworks in Sacramento.

Give them a call and report back on this forum.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 22, 2006 - 07:10pm PT
I thought the OP put in all the right details and none of the wrong ones.

When an accident like this happens, the gym might suffer even if not at fault, and other people and manufacterers get blamed out of assumption.

best to get some facts first and then have the witchhunt

peace

Karl
Apocalypsenow

Trad climber
Cali
May 22, 2006 - 07:21pm PT
Having had the opportunity to take a day long tour of a rope manufacturer company, I remain completely confident in climbing ropes. THEY know the risk involved, should one cord come out of their shop that has the slightest defect.

I say the “gym climber” that owned the rope was not giving the correct history. Did he often throw his rope on the pavement of the parking lot? Parking lots have acid on them from batteries. One thing to consider...

Also, steel carabiners do not disappate heat as well as aluminum does. Sounds like the rope ran through the biner, for enough of a distance to create heat…
dirtineye

Trad climber
the south
May 22, 2006 - 07:50pm PT
yes, a day long trip to a rope maker would certainly satify ME, except that I have been sent a faulty rope from a manufacturer before.

when I told em, they said, Keep it, cut out the bad parts, use as you wish, we will replace no charge. ANd they did.

Now, that rope PROBABLY would not have killed me, but it was NOT up to snuff, and it got though hand selection, eyeballs right on it.

But at any rate, if this story is true, someone will have to test the rope remnants and see what happened. I would bet the sheath alone would hold the fall they claim happened, so severe damage of some sort seems indicated.

Maybe we should start a few wagers?

Hoax/no hoax, 5 to one on hoax

Acid damage, even money.

Cut by evil partner, 10 to one.

Kodos did it, 100 to 1 (he can't be everywhere).

Karl did it, 50 to 1 (Karl is awfully sure about this though).

Werner did it, 1000 to one.

Tuolumne rainbow did it, are you kidding? Astronomical odds.

Your pick here:

Someone in Vegas go get these lined up!



Curt

Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
May 22, 2006 - 09:16pm PT
This is almost certainly a hoax. The only other report that I have ever heard of involving a rope actually breaking in use (the one mentioned by rgold) involved a rope that had been exposed to battery acid.

Curt
sharpendphoto

Sport climber
berkeley
May 22, 2006 - 09:16pm PT
i can also confirm that this post is not a hoax... but i too would find it hard to believe if my partner (who was at pipeworks on saturday) hadn't recounted the identical story to me saturday night by e-mail. scary. after talking this over with other climbers, our speculative consensus is that there must have been some damage to the rope... i sure hope the climber isn't seriously injured and can get back to leading on a new rope soon. here's a snippet of our exchange from saturday...

first e-mail:
... anyhow, the disturbing part is i saw another guy fall. he was taking his lead test and at the top wanting to take the intentional fall, and when he did his rope SNAPPED and he fell. holy sh#t. i'll have to recount it to you later. again, i saw him hit the ground. ugh.

my reply:
wow. i can't believe that. there must have been something wrong with his rope... they just don't break like that. maybe manufacturing flaw? glad to hear he was ok. that would have been really scary to see, especially since you were probably watching anyway to see his lead fall.

her reply:
the rope just snapped. not caught on a bolt, not frayed at all before the fall. the rope looked old but less frayed than any of ours, and what is surprising is that the entire thing just ripped in half. core and all. everyone was checking their ropes after that. the other guy (the partner) was saying that they had only taken a couple falls on it. the dude fell much better than the other one at MC. i saw him land on his feet/ankles and roll onto his side/back so im sure some of the impact was transferred so thats why he didnt break anything but he was in major shock--his eyes were huge and glassy and he just lay there.


(she also mentioned that there was quite a bit of confusion about how to handle the situation on the part of the touchstone employees. i find this pretty scary and frankly surprising given the number accidents that have happened recently at the touchstone gyms.)
ctardi

Trad climber
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada
May 22, 2006 - 09:26pm PT
I'd kinda think troll on this one...has anyone contacted any of the gyms?
ladd

Trad climber
land of fruits, nuts and flakes
May 22, 2006 - 11:17pm PT
either a poorly respected life line or just another boring troll.......

Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 22, 2006 - 11:28pm PT
Jesus. People buy the government lies all day long but nobody can buy that a rope might break!

It would be a pretty boring troll to be worth getting all these collaborators involved it convincing us that some guy fell in a gym.

You want to suspect a conspiracy, maybe some chemistry geek sabotaged the rope cause the climber was his enemy or he was just twisted.

My money is on real accident, chemical damage

peace and hope the guy is OK. He should be posting up anytime now (if he exists)

Karl
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