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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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May 21, 2006 - 10:22pm PT
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Locking carabiner? Seems odd.
Anyway, suppose the rope was caught between the gate and the biner. If he "clipped" from below then climbed same distance above, the climber would never feel the friction. And if the belayer does not take in, then let out, perhaps he does not either.
Maybe with the rope pinned on a sharp edge it fails. Even this scenario seems unlikely.
Of course, a lower biner could have pinned the rope and turned it into a factor oneish fall.
Finally, while it seems likely that the rope broke at the biner, I doubt that this was actually "observed". (If it was, then the rope must have been clipped into the biner after the climber hit the ground, other wise the rope falls through the biners to the ground with nobody knowing exactly what the point of failure was.) More than likely it was estimated to be the case post fall.
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e$
Mountain climber
jackson, wy
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May 21, 2006 - 10:34pm PT
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Sounds like a Touchstone gym.... Based on the poster's location I'm guessing the one in Sacramento.
They may you climb the route, hang from the last hold and take a fall.
This is a terrible incident and I hope that the climber is not seriously injured (and/or heals quickly).
Touchstone, from my experience, wants to discourage lead climbing as much as possible. It's the only gym where I've had to take a fall as part of the lead test (which is not altogether bad).
Maybe this is going to make them clamp down further on leading, or redesign their test.
I know of one gym that makes you lead on their ropes.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 21, 2006 - 10:41pm PT
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Has the carabiner on the wall been checked? Maybe there is a burr in it or something that cut the rope?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 21, 2006 - 10:45pm PT
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So far you are basing your analysis on the word of two first time posters, both fortunately at the same place at the same time to see the accident, but living in different states.
NO corroboration outside these two.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 21, 2006 - 11:20pm PT
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I have to admit my suspicion of the post, lacking any specific information that could be checked.
But also because the result does not fit the facts. There are a number of factors that can significantly reduce the strength of rope....most notably using the rope for top-roping:
http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/services/safety/forms/Vogel1.doc
Also, marking the center of the rope with an unapproved marker:
http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/services/safety/forms/Marking%20of%20Ropes.doc
urine can reduce a rope's strength, up to 30%. This and a series of rope comments from UIAA, including the comment that no rope has been known to fail sport climbing.....perhaps that is different, now.
http://www.pete-smith.co.uk/ropewear.htm
So, for the rope to have failed in the manner described, with the world history of lack of such failures, it STRONGLY suggests that something damaged this rope. It would certainly be important for the rope to be examined by the manufacturer, or a reputable lab, along with the 'biner.
The use of a steel carabiner seems odd, most used in climbing these days are aluminum.
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WBraun
climber
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May 21, 2006 - 11:41pm PT
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Post up OP of the Gym name/location and the real name of the person that fell.
We will call the gym to confirm the story.
Otherwise, this equals a bullshits troll!
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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May 21, 2006 - 11:52pm PT
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Impossible!
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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May 21, 2006 - 11:54pm PT
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I Agree... would be a great troll. I ain't buyin' it, otherwise, I'd have to quit climbing, well, I guess I'd have to start back first :)
Seriously, if you can't trust your rope, well, need I say more?
Post up the gym name and dude that fell, or I'm with Braun.
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e$
Mountain climber
wilson, wyo.
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May 22, 2006 - 12:14am PT
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My bet is on Sac'to Pipeworks, as the scenario he described matches the Touchstone style of lead test to a tee.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada
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May 22, 2006 - 12:34am PT
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The maker of the rope (which the owner of the rope told me at the time of the accident)has been notified and has the contact information for the gym involved and people that saw the accident(me and others). I hope the rope gets tested and the guy recovers. I like it better when names are kept out of things like this. Just like all the posts, I want more information. Just have to wait.
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2006 - 12:36am PT
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Labrat
What gym? Why so secretive about the gym? Common man spit it out.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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May 22, 2006 - 01:53am PT
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Difference between a "Ruptured" Rope, and a "Broken" Rope?
The Manufacturer says the rope "ruptured".
The guy whose ass hit the deck says it broke.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 22, 2006 - 12:04pm PT
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One of my partners was at the gym and told me about this accident.
It is indeed Pipeworks in Sacramento. Call them up.
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DavisGunkie
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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May 22, 2006 - 12:17pm PT
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my initial though in reading this was that it was rocknasium sincew the ropes they use are old and they don't let you lead on your own ropes. plu si have seen some shitty techniques there from lead belayers.
my guess is the climber was fallen, having taken the lead test at pipeworks, they usually only have you go 3-4 clips up or so before they tell you to take the fall., and the floor they have is pretty cushy. but that is purely speculative.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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May 22, 2006 - 12:34pm PT
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There's a whole bunch of factors that would keep the impact of this fall somewhat low. Also, because (as was pointed out earlier) so many threads are involved in the inner guts of a rope, the idea that all the threads were incorrectly manufactured at exactly the same point is highly unlikely, if not impossible. If this isn't a troll (probable), everything points to the rope being previously damaged in the place where it broke. Send the broken shank to Kolin at BD and have him give it the once over.
Ropes don't break in the way described unless they have been previously damaged by SOMETHING above and beyond this little piss ant fall. The fall described is taken tens of thousands of times every day at sport crags and gyms all over the world.
JL
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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May 22, 2006 - 12:39pm PT
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My bet was on Rocknasium too. I didn't realize that they insisted that you use their gnarly ropes. I just knew that you could lead on their loners...and thought it was kind of a big liability for them.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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May 22, 2006 - 12:49pm PT
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To the best of my knowledge, no one manufactures a "keylock steel 'biner" steel is too hard to get a good nose "bulb" geometry. i'm guessing the OP meant a steel locking carabiner. if this is the case, the tangs on those gates are easily sharp enough to cut a rope if improperly clipped.
i know the OP said everything was clipped properly, but this would be hard to verify from the ground.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 22, 2006 - 01:31pm PT
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My partner said that he also looked at the biner. He also described it as a steel "keylock" biner. Pipeworks doesn't use locking biners on the lead walls. My partner also said the biner was in good shape (no burs, sharp edges etc.)
If the rope was "caught" on the gate or pinched on the wall while the climber was falling and the climber slowed down appreciably (according to the people there), then it would seem like there would probably be sheath damage over several feet of the rope. This doesn't appear to be the case.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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May 22, 2006 - 01:34pm PT
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Troll? Back in the late 70's I threw my rope into a friends trunk. Got home and the next day I was going to go climbing. My friend had at some point transported a car battery (sulfuric acid) and my rope was eaten through the sheath and some of the fibers.
My guess is that if chemicals damaged this rope then it would most likely leave visible signs of damage. If the sheath is chemically the same as the core (polyurethane) then it would also eat the sheath. I suppose there cold be some solvents that may weaken a rope and not cause visible signs of damage.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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May 22, 2006 - 01:34pm PT
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Pipeworks has a number of steel omega biners on the rope ends of their quickdraws, but I think they're like the omegalite 4.0 wiregates, not keylocks.
And hey, I won't hear of this ragging on the Rocknasium! That place is great! Way chill vibe, as opposed to a few of the other local gyms...
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