GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:05pm PT
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Alluring thing about Moab is the mountain biking rest days :)))
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Jebus H Bomz
climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:06pm PT
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How about all those horizontal bolt lines ending at 100'-115' feet located at Indian Creek? Cumulatively, there are many serialized "lines" (two points makes a line, right?) of bolts in that all trad, no bolt craggin' country.
But, you know, choose your argument of convenience.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2012 - 10:07pm PT
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This isn't about the Creek. It's about Castleton Tower. Comparing apples and oranges.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:15pm PT
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Hi Dave!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:23pm PT
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bolted the line
does this mean that it did go in top down?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
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This isn't about the Creek. It's about Castleton Tower. Comparing apples and oranges
Did you see any bolts on Kor Ingalls last time you climbed that? (I did!)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
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Since I've only been in the Castleton Tower area once, I can't comment on whether or not a bolt line is a desecration. But to say that because it's 5.13, it won't see very many repeats is just plain silly.
Time marches on. Yesterday's bizarrely difficult, never-to-be-repeated test pieces are today's tourist routes. Remember the origins of the Yosemite decimal system? 5.8 was the hardest grade imaginable. Only a couple of freakishly gifted and fearless men could climb at that grade. So leaving a 5.9 grade open would easily accommodate future advances, with 5.10 available for something a hundred years in the future.
And now? Where are we? 5.15c? Or is it just 5.15b?
So sure, if you think Castleton should not have bolted routes, I can't argue. Maybe you're right. But half the 13-year-olds at your gym probably hike 5.13, so that argument is a non-starter.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2012 - 10:29pm PT
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Ummm Vitaliy, Kor-Ingalls went up in 1961. They didn't have a lot of options to get up it back then.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:37pm PT
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Why did they put in a bolt ladder on East buttress of Middle Cathedral back in the day instead of just rapelling off and waiting for a better climber to come along and run it out/take another variation? All these ethics are twisted.
Congrats to the people on their first ascents. Although rap bolting a line is quite a different experience than going from the ground up.....
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:38pm PT
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Did you see any bolts on Kor Ingalls last time you climbed that? (I did!)
Kor Ingalls was done ground up. Just like every other route there. It also doesn't have a full pitch with bolts seven feet apart. The grade makes no difference. Easy or hard it makes no difference.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Oct 24, 2012 - 10:42pm PT
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I just looked over the FA more. Yeah, doing First Ascents on rap, is not so adventurous...don't even get the point of it actually. Just set up a top rope, rehearse the moves, and put in enough bolts. Hmmmm I guess you have a point Fluoride. Thought it was done ground up.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
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Thanks Vitaliy.
I only wanted to point that out.
This is nothing like Layton, Jay, or any of the others who put up hard routes on the tower did.
It's obviously a great new hard route. But not like the ones that went up the tower in the past.
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jghedge
climber
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Oct 24, 2012 - 11:03pm PT
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"It's obviously a great new hard route. But not like the ones that went up the tower in the past."
You just provided your own counterpoint - one could refute your argument using those very words.
Simply remove the word "but".
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2012 - 11:13pm PT
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Nope J. I don't want to give away their effort but I question their means of doing it in a place that doesn't seem to need it.
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Jebus H Bomz
climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
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Oct 24, 2012 - 11:13pm PT
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This isn't about the Creek. It's about Castleton Tower. Comparing apples and oranges.
Utah desert wingate sandstone crag vs. Utah desert wingate sandstone crag. My bad for generalizing so erroneously.
The funny thing is you can compare apples and oranges on a lot of points. They are a lot more similar than, say, apples and beef.
I dunno, some line that doesn't effect you is some line that doesn't effect you. It's sort of like a hiker on the Mist Trail who is mad when she looks up and sees climbers unfairly hiking up Snake Dike.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2012 - 11:18pm PT
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Done Jebus. Here she is a week ago Saturday.
My problem is the huge number of bolts put up on a tower that doesn't need it.
PS, I've done Snake Dike via the Mist Trail.
PPS, why did you use this all in female context?
"hiker on the Mist Trail who is mad when she looks up and sees climbers unfairly hiking up Snake Dike."
I'm the only female in this thread and wish there were more.
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Jebus H Bomz
climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
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Oct 24, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
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Done because of me, Fluoride?
Maybe bolts are so magnified in our minds because, as climbers, we often see them up close.
Maybe I'm pissing on your sanctuary unduly, and it really is a travesty.
Hell, I don't know. Sorry if I seem callous, I'm sure I'll get my samesuch comeuppance in some short, jabbing punch to my emotional solar plexus one of these days, and probably not too long coming.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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some they might wish they had done
Let us know!