New bolted 5.13b route on Castleton Tower.

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The New Age Blitzo

Social climber

Joshua Tree, CA

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:12am PT

Hi Beth. Hi Larry!

Fluoride

Trad climber

West Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2012 - 12:16am PT

"I think if anyone has earned the right to put in bolts on a tower"

Really?? So someone can be more worthy of adding bolts to a tower than someone who hasn't done ASCA work?

"5.13 cracks in Indian Creek gets lots of traffic"

Yeah, cause they're CRACKS. You can't send them without placing gear. Not bolted face. Even then the list of people who send those isn't that big. Belly Full of Bad Berries only gets sent by the top of the tier climbers.

"doesn't sound like a sport climb"

Yeah, 16 bolts on a pitch spaced 7 feet apart doesn't sound sport at all.

"in a desert filled with bolt ladders"

This is Castleton Tower, not some random piece of sandstone. See Donini's take upthread. He knows more about it than all of us.

On a happier note....

Hey Billy!! We'll be coming to visit you soon. Miss you. Glad you're doing well.

The Larry

climber

Moab, UT

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:16am PT

Hi Blitzo!!

nick d

Trad climber

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:17am PT

Top down = Zero accomplishment

Thats true anywhere and everywhere. Just another weenie with a power drill adding to his "resume". Whoop de do.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:22am PT

I have a few thoughts on this, and don't worry - if we don't agree on these thoughts, we can still be friends :D

First off - It is difficult to give an opinion because I haven't climbed the route. Hell, I haven't even walked up to the base of it and looked at it. Rather than speculate on a route that may or may not be a high quality classic, I'll stick to stuff I like - things that are actually debatable at this point.

The idea that cliffs are "trad" or "sport" to me is like saying that rocks are "trad" or "sport." If a route doesn't have stances to be drilled ground-up, and frail (and sparse) flakes make hooking stances a death affair, the argument seems to be to let fallow.

I see the idea, that if it can't be done in a particular style, that it stay unclimbed. This dogma reeks of religion - arrogant conservatism in face of progress. There are no great western deserts desecrated by bolts, just like the 'gay agenda' isn't stealing your children from heterosexuality.

Beth is right, there AREN'T a lot of people that can climb 5.13. Granted, there are kids at my gym in high school that can absolutely dog their way up (if not redpoint the route in a few attempts), but to me that isn't the point.

Let time decide what routes are classic, let our friends who share our ropes enjoy using the mountain resources so long as they abide by the rules and are being gracious to others, and give the f*#king respect you ask for in ALL walks of life. This route probably means SO MUCH to those guys who put it up and worked their asses off, let some bolts sit out of the way of a route you may (OR MAY NOT) do because that experience enriched them and enriched others. This isn't a bolt ladder, there are routes in HIDDEN VALLEY CAMPGROUND with bolts spaced similar distances.

Joshua Tree, Idyllwild, Yosemite, the most hard-core traditional areas have cutting edge bolted rights right in view of well established trade lines. Give it up with the evangelical climbing, go get a beer, get laid and have a good time. We're all dying soon, is this worth giving a sh#t about?

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:24am PT

Yeah, 16 bolts on a pitch spaced 7 feet apart don't sound sport at all.

I know of a lot of 'trad' climbers that hang their way up cracks with gear every 4 feet :)

Fluoride

Trad climber

West Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2012 - 12:27am PT

On 5.13's Greg?

If bolted 5.13 was so pedestrian, why haven't Cozzie's bolted 5.13 face routes (bolted, not sport) in J-Treee have not seen repeats in the years since he put them up?

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:35am PT

On 5.7's. Sh#t, I've done it. I feel safer on straight-in splitters that protect well than routes with bolts every seven feet.

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:38am PT

Everyone climbs the bolt ladders on The Nose and numerous other chiseled out big walls (thank you dudes from the past!), but as soon as there is a bolted free climb in place people start crying. Even on free climbs, back in the day if there was a head wall they couldn't free- here comes the bolt ladder!

Beth, would love to see you tell them to chop those 111 bolts from Middle Cathedral: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1962356/Father-Time-New-VI-Free-Route-on-Middle-Cathedral

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:42am PT

If bolted 5.13 was so pedestrian, why haven't Cozzie's bolted 5.13 face routes (bolted, not sport) in J-Treee have not seen repeats in the years since he put them up?

This is a great question, because I agree - I've certainly seen a handful of 5.13's done first person, at Red Rocks.

In fact, today I worked with a guy who goes to college full time and is a computer engineering major, engaged, and likes to play video games who has climbed 5.13 (and only really boulders these days, but is much much stronger...)

Coz's routes are hard as F*#K. I don't think that means that all 5.13's are as hard....

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:43am PT

I think its just rock climbing : /

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:45am PT

Just realized it was Chris Kalous that bolted it... I recommend hearing his podcast before any personal attacks on the dude.

edit - I think I might be the only one that posts on Supertopo while simultaneously watching a drag queen reality show.

Fluoride

Trad climber

West Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2012 - 12:56am PT

Here's the beta for the route. It's not mixed in a true sense. You can't get up it if you can't get past the bolted pitches.

http://static-dev-climbing.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Unknown3.jpeg

Regardless, kudos for a bold ascent. I just don't think bolting Castleton Tower was the right place to do this.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 25, 2012 - 12:57am PT

I still need to head out there :( typically lazy california kid, never wanting to get sand-bagged in the real world hehehe...

Fluoride

Trad climber

West Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2012 - 01:02am PT

What's stopping you Greg? It's there.

HIT IT!! :) You'll love it.

Moab rules. Just got back from 8 days there...best 8 days of my year thus far. Even better than all my 3 trips to Tuolumne this summer. It's heaven. Desert sandstone is the best.

caughtinside

Social climber

Oakland, CA

Oct 25, 2012 - 01:03am PT

Sounds really cool to me, a hard route up a big tower. I say kudos to those guys.

I don't think this is breaking news either, but there are bolts all over castleton. There's like a 2 bolt variation start to Kor Ingals. Jay Smith has some hard looking arete up there somewhere I think.

JTree 5.13 doesn't get repeated much because its unfashionable. People capable of the grade would rather climb something steep and fun than thin and crispy.

I'll get on the bandwagon here and say HEY! to larry, blitzo and beth.