ATVs rampaging in INDIAN CREEK--yes or no???????????

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crunch

Social climber
CO
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 4, 2012 - 11:00am PT
Grand County is pushing for a new ATV route right under the Bridger Jacks.

Just sent my comments to the BLM.

http://www.suwa.org/2012/10/01/indian-creek-threatened-redrock-report-septemberoctober-2012/#atv

Today is the lsat day for public comments. That means you Philo, Norton, et al. Stop posting on those useless political threads and tell the BLM what you think of having ATVs running amok in the finest crack climbing area in the world.

Friends of Indian Creek have info and links too, but they only seem to keep their facebook page updated:

http://www.facebook.com/friendsofindiancreek?fref=ts
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Oct 4, 2012 - 11:34am PT
So why should they not be allowed the same freedoms to play there as you do?

Nine years ago during my last trip to the Creek, I spent half of my days cleaning up Climber debris, including tape, Cig Butts, TP etc. Even came upon several turds that were obviously left behind by visiting climbers.


Kane Creek as you know is constantly having them all around. Seems to be a cooperative situ there. Why not have it so at Indian Creek.

Work together and combine efforts to keep the area clean and open for all to enjoy.

Not start wars that will and can shut em down for all.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 4, 2012 - 11:39am PT
Well, did ya email BLM_UT_MT_Comments@blm.gov Chief?

Like
Please allow ATVs and an ATV path in the Indian Creek area of Utah, I'm a hiker and rock climber who doesn't even own an ATV, but believes in balanced recreation.

Regards
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Oct 4, 2012 - 11:41am PT
No, I just did my part and cleaned up after them lazy polluters. Like I do just about every day that I go out to any Crag.

What a concept.....



Every recreational org has the same rights to our land as anyone else.


Edit: I did so last month btw for many areas, not just the Creek. We have a similar deal going down right here in my backyard. I own two of em and am being told that the USFS is considering access regs for em. All right behind my home.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
Comment sent.

Please allow responsible ATV/Motorcycle recreation in the Canyonlands Region.
The opportunity for young people to experience these beautiful areas while learning to respect and protect our environment is a very important lesson.
Simply because one chooses to ride motorized vehicles in the out of doors does not make them irresponsible.
Often times I clean up trash in the Southern California Desert left by Hikers, Campers and Equestrians.
Dirt bike riders and Desert Racers are good people and want to keep what little land they have left in the Western United States to enjoy their chosen sport.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
Crusher, I talked to Bob Lever of the BLM, the proposed ATV trail is not under the Bridger Jacks. It does not go near any climbing areas, the biggest impact is that it will, at one point, come within 400 yards of Creek Pasture. It won't be visible from the camp but it might be possible to occasionally hear an ATV. The new route IS BETTER than the first proposal which had the trail going right thru Creek Pasture. That would have had a real impact on campers and on usage of the toilets.
The last day for comments is tomorrow. This is Utah and it is BLM land, not a Wilderness Area, and the trail will probably be approved. Bob Lever was able to keep the impact on the climbing community at a minimum. He is committed to keeping different special use groups from impacting each other.
I am against mechanized recreation on any public lands. Roody Rasmussen from Petzel might be able to come to the Creek next week and I will have him meet with Bob. Roody is on an advisement board for recreational use on Utah public lands.
It is important for the climbing community to do whatever it can to influence land managers and decision makers. That is why good turnouts at events like the Volunteer Day on the 13th
are important. Do all that you can to rally the troops for this event. Currently, I am expecting 50 or more participants but more would be that much better. I can assure you it WILL be
noticed
While this particular trail proposal will have little impact on climbing at IC, it is imperative that we are perceived as a good and valuable lobby should a more injurious proposal be put forth.
Jim
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
I'm against any self-righteous, narrow minded thinking.


I am against mechanized recreation in any public lands.
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
The motorized sport vehicles in the wilderness is out of control. This affects wildlife migration patterns and eating habits. Get your fat ass off the motor and hike, run or peddle your way through the wildlands.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:30pm PT
pud, it's my PERSONAL opinion.....you probably have your own, voice them if you choose to.

edit: I see you did, we just happen to disagree, ATV riders are not noted for being very responsible.
10b4me

Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
The motorized sport vehicles in the wilderness is out of control. This affects wildlife migration patterns and eating habits. Get your fat ass off the motor and hike, run or peddle your way through the wildlands.

+1

pud, it's my PERSONAL opinion.....you probably have your own, voice them if you choose to.

+1 for Jim

Note: I am a former dirtbike rider from many years ago. I gave it up after seeing the environmental damage that dirtbikes do.
crasic

climber
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
Not sure how I feel about motorized vehicles in wild areas...

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
What a concept.....



Every recreational org has the same rights to our land as anyone else.

"If you are able to install bolts in the rock, then I should be able to spray paint graffiti all over the rock."

"If you are able to walk to the summit, I should be able to drive my Hummer there."

Same logic.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
It would be refreshing if people would actually read posts before commenting. I said that while I personally was against motorized vehicles, I understood that such activities are always going to be allowed on BLM land. The question is how different special use groups impact each other. IC has historically been a climber's venue in terms of use. In hundreds of days over 20 years I have never seen an ATV at the Creek. There are over two million acres of land in the area, surely enough for all concerned.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:51pm PT
I am against mechanized recreation on any public lands.

but using ones 4x4 on long rock climbing approaches are prolly acceptable right?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2012 - 12:55pm PT
Read my last post Hawkeye. There are 55,000 miles of dirt roads in Utah. Seems like enough for 4by4's and ATV's alike. I also realize that additional ATV trails will be made, I just don't want to see unnecessary conflicts between largely incompatible user groups.

edit: Am i on the right forum? I realize that a lot of people hear liked to bs but didn't really climb, but i thought that they were sympathetic to the activity.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Oct 4, 2012 - 01:01pm PT
Jim,
Point taken.
So many millions of acres have been closed to OHV's in the California Desert through deceit and manipulation of current laws by "environmentalists" it has left me somewhat jaded.
I respect your opinion.


As far as Destruction of natural habitat goes, trails left by Motorcycle and ATV's will disappear in a few years of non-use. Bolts in rock are permanent destruction.

Let's not be hypocrites.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
Thanks pud. I realize that every group has people who are responsible and those who are not. Forget my personal prejudice, I shouldn't have voiced it. They are PUBLIC lands and many special interests have to be served. It's just in everybody's best interest to try to determine the best venues for each group and try to keep conflict at a minimum.
crasic

climber
Oct 4, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
Bolts in rock are permanent destruction

Until they mineralize and become a part of the rock, or the next rockfall drags that piece of rock to the talus.

EDIT:

I wonder what the reaction would be if someone lobbied to put a via ferrata up el cap?
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Oct 4, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
I'm a long time dirt bike rider, racer & at present own 5 dirt bikes.
CR 80
CR 125
YZ 125
KDX 200
KTM 300
I agree with Jim.

I ride in Cal. & have no trouble finding places to ride.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Oct 4, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
Got nothing to do with being responsible, it has to do with noise impacts on other users.

I grew up riding and racing motocross, and using ATVs to haul deer out of the woods. I'm not opposed to them in general. But I f*#king hate hearing them when I'm otherwise trying to enjoy the outdoors. There is NO shortage of ATV terrain in southern Utah, in Grand, Wayne, San Juan or Garfield Counties. NONE. No reason they can't enjoy their existing opportunities where everyone else doesn't have to hear the two stroke whine.
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