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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sitting there all Cobra-fattened,
Ya stay away ya won't git flattened.
But on the upriver side
Pete and Partner might have done wrong,
Judge'em after they've sung their song.
I'm sayin.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, all.... me, i don't know much about any of this... so the only i might say or add is this:
stuff falling, from high-up-rocks, is scary... :O
scarier still, not knowing where or how stuff will land, be it rocks, haul bags, or falling climbers, :(
i'm just listening and learning, from you all you all...
so this is just a non-climber cringe... :(
so hope i did not say anything too out of line...
:(
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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I was guilty of this type of thing, when I chucked my haul bag off the East Face of Washington C., after soloing the Prow back in 1970.
I sure wasn't going to haul all that crap down that infamous gully, and this was one hour after a real heavy thunderstorm came ripping thru the Valley.
In fact, I probably didn't even think about how I was going to carry that stuff down,(mostly iron back in those days).
I doubt anyone was lurking below, after that heavy rain came thru.
No, I wouldn't do it today, and besides, I don't do aid anymore either, unless you count hanging on a piece once in a while.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Hey Neebs, This is required reading to understand this thread
...and this:
http://www.elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-100212
At the bottom of the page:
On a more serious note… it seems that Piton Pete can not be convinced to give up tossing huge bags off the top of ZM, instead of carrying them down. His, and Jon Fox’s latest shipment came down at 1am last night. Alice, of Zodiac, texted that she didn’t know what hit the ground, at high velocity, as she awoke at the base, but hoped it wasn’t a base jumper.
Shame on you Pete Zabrok and Jon Fox… you are not infallible …hopefully someone else will not have to pay for your arrogance. The climbing community had a big discussion about this last season and although you emailed me, about the situation Pete, you didn’t respond to any of the discussions. Therefore, I will not report on any of your future climbs on El Capitan, nor will I photograph you, or any partner you are climbing with. As far as I am concerned, you are not welcome here at the Bridge. I have no authority here, so that is all I can do…. I think the rest of the community here agrees with my actions. What you people are doing is no joke.
So that’s the way it is, for this Tuesday, the 2nd day of October, 2012.
Later Tom
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Let the 1000 posts Donini suggests fly. It should be limited to 1 post per person. I just used mine up. Outtahere.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
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I've nearly gotten hit twice by falling bags and it was a very scary experience both times. I've always considered the route unfinished until I've carried all my gear to the parking lot.
Hopefully nobody gets hurt or killed by laziness in the future.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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In the 70s having just finished Sacherer Cracker and milling around the base a dropped or pitched haul bag trailing two floppy butt bags cratered and exploded in the midst of us. Pins were blown through the sides and stuck in trees, tuna can shrapnel was everywhere. It was a mess and it was very nearly fatal!
I understand it was more of a "norm" then but it was as wrong then as it is now.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Space Pig...Space Pig...Space Pig!
Write him up and whack his Pee-Pee, your Honor.
Lazy and feckless puke!
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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It is really startling that Zabrok and Fox would chuck their stuff, especially over such a popular spot on El Cap for people to be bivying or making earlier starts. Have they lost their minds? If and when one of those bags does hit someone or blasts them nearby at 120 mph with, as Philo says, shrapnel, it will be incredibly incredibly tragic, senseless and at the same time horrific. It likely will even cause criminal charges and certainly civil action against those who were that dumb---likely in the millions of dollars too. I have to assume too that the NPS will have to get involved and some kind of new policy or curtailment will take place and our tenuous relationship with the NPS will turn to crap again.
Tom Evans' reaction to Pete Zabrok and Jon Fox's dumb ass move is fully understandable and I support him. Tom is not being frumpy and authoritarian. Tom better than anyone sees the whole picture: all the people trudging around the base of the huge walls, the zillion climbers topping out, the horde of parties bivying everywhere part way up and consequently understands the terrific peril throwing stuff off routes presents. It is quite an intense situation these days and not at all what it was back in the seventies when bag chucking was being tested out on an empty El Capitan. It just cannot be done today, pure and simple. If you have to hike back up for a second or third load, that is simply your lot in life and hardly impossible to cope with. One would think that after braving a big wall one could keep it together sufficiently not to be this selfish.
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bigwall shitter
Social climber
Bozeman, MT
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I imagine any bag tossed off el cap would be completely blown apart by the time it impacted the ground. Those things are expensive!
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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^^^^Not if done correctly.
Kind of interesting how BITD things like this were just mentioned at the delhi or at the campground, but with cell phones and the internet a person's actions at the top of El Cap at 1AM are now sprayed all over for everyone -- including the TOOL -- to read.
I love Tom's reports, but maybe he should let climbers be climbers? Part of photojournalism is not interfering with events one is photographing. And not photographing Pete is not photographing the whole story. It would be showing Tom's own biased view of what is happening on El Cap. (One I would still look forward to frequently seeing...)
That said, SHAME ON YOU, PASS-THE-CHEATER-STICK PETE. NO LAP DANCE FOR YOU.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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I like the idea of not hearing about Pete anymore, regardless of his activities.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I love Tom's reports, but maybe he should let climbers be climbers?
Wilderness, adventure, loneliness. Come here to come to grips with your mortality.
You get the bad with the good. YOSAR is a phone call away and any Tom, Dick and Harry is allowed to watch you. El Cap is LITERALLY the stage of American Big Wall Climbing. Don't check in with Tom, ask him not to film you (he will gladly oblige), and even better - do a route that you can't pick out individual climbers out from a road if you want that true wilderness experience.
Or climb it off season, winter ascents are rare but possible on some of the more protected routes - I've never done an El Cap route (LOL PINE LINE) but that seems like a cool option to have a great adventure.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Here's a plan... Let's keep track of when Pete is going to do a wall and then head to the base when he is near the top. Wait for the missile to crater and then take it away. Free gear! After losing a few thousand dollars maybe then he will change tactics.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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There are lots of stupid things climbers do on el-cap or just in general that for the most part the community has a consensus against.
I'll try to make a list of things from lowest level of stupid to highest.
1 Yappy dogs and not picking up their crap at the crag.
2 Litter
3 Adding bolts w/o FA or concensus
4 Chopping bolts
5 Pounding pins on a consensus clean line
6 dropping sh1tbags off el-cap
7 stealing gear
8 chiseling el-cap
Now all of these just affect the climbers around or after you negatively or are simply disrespectful. They cause no real harm to other people yet someone who does these things tends to lose at least a bit of respect.
Some might say "who cares" and have a point. Except the stealing
But then there are things that border on the true criminal due to the real harm they do or could do to others
Dropping bags off el-cap in my mind is worse than anything on the above list. Simply because it's very possible to kill someone. It's no different than throwing rocks off any popular route.
I see no good argument for dropping your bags no matter how "careful" you think you are trying to be.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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As far as I am concerned, you are not welcome here at the Bridge.
Tom's got great pix and I love his reports and all, but I draw the line at owning the bridge.....
As much as Pete climbs El Cap, surely he can afford to pay some starving young Camp 4 spine to carry his gear.
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Gene
climber
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Survival,
Methinks Tom is not claiming ownership of the Bridge.
As far as I am concerned, you are not welcome here at the Bridge. I have no authority here, so that is all I can do...
Tom will not welcome bag huckers at the Bridge. That's all.
g
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