Discussion Topic |
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North
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 2, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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Check out El Cap Reports for the latest and greatest on comings and goings on El Cap. Not too mention some fairly decent photos (just kidding Tom. You da Man!). At any rate, seems Pete and partner hucked their bags off ZM and now they get to feel the wrath of Tom. Not too mention the rest of the climbing community. Bad form Petey.
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Boys will be boys . . . Round 2? on EC bag hucking. Apparently we didn't solve this the last time it happened now did we!?
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Park rangers should give Pete & partner a big fat ticket for the haul bag throwing. It could get somebody killed & is recognized by most as dangerous & plain wrong.
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Johnny K.
climber
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What the heck is Pete thinking?He isnt thinking.
Poor Alice,glad she didnt get hurt.
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The Alpine
climber
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No sh1t. Wah wah, Im telling on you! What has the center of the universe come to.
Is Tom a danger to the monkey nation now? Keep that shizz off the internet ya fools.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Did the bags go down WOS? Now THAT would be a 1000+ post thread.
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MisterE
Social climber
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If you have no friends helping you to get your gear down, who's fault is that?
The question that is begged here
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Did they yell "rock"?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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If yer rollin' around at 1 AM, then you're evil & should be prepared to die.
No one bivies at the drop site. No one that wants to live, anyway.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Aw Pete... And banned from the EC Report too.
make good my friend. It can be done.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Maybe we need 1 more sign(!?) Yeah, I'm no fan of signs, usually.....although,
The approach for El Cap COULD have a sign that says"If you pass this sign, then You're Gonna Die(fer sure)!!!!!".
Or some such.
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WBraun
climber
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YOSAR should give Pete & partner a big fat ticket for the haul bag throwing.
YOSAR????
YOSAR is not law enforcement.
YOSAR is only the search and rescue branch of LEO protection division.
Only LEO can give ticket .........
Tom is pissed?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I really thought he wasn't going to do it this time. I like Pete but..
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MisterE
Social climber
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Holy edits, Batman!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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You'd think that with all that gear Pete hauls, he would have room for ~2000' of 1/2" webbing. Then he could just lower each bag off the top of Zodiac and have one person on the ground to detach them. Maybe even lower Pete or his partner off first!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Werner, I am still laughing, ten minutes later. That is PERFECT.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Hey Pete stop giving us Canucks a bad name you wanker!!!!!!
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Hahahahaha perfect pic Werner. And the one below isn't half bad either
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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As far as I am concerned, you are not welcome here at the Bridge.
Although I do not think throwing gear from El Cap is in any way appropriate, the quote from above made me laugh my ass off.
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Michelle
Trad climber
she'll make.5 past light speed
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Uhm, why does Tom being pissed relate to bag tossing and Werners band of merry YOSAR (haha) folks?
And while I dig his shots, why do I care that he's pissed at a Canadian?
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Hey Pete stop giving us Canucks a bad name you wanker!!!!!!
I deal with the American version of this several times times daily, to the point of absurdity.
What a special planet we live on.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Canadians are very touchy about being ignored.
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Michelle
Trad climber
she'll make.5 past light speed
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Oh, ok. Thanks.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Canadian Assassin, is right.
Seriously, some of us read Don Reid's admonishment in the 1987 Yosemite climbing guide "Do not throw your haul bag off a wall" as gospel. Consequently we don't expect to die at the base of a wall from some jack wagon tossing their massive sh#t show off the wall.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Does he always throw his junk show off the top? Or is this just the first time someone saw it happen?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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He's judging the subjects of his own photos which he makes a living off of. How annoying to have somebody sitting down there with a fat telephoto, invading your privacy and critiquing you while you are in the heat of battle.
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jstan
climber
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Abandoned property.
Booty.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Where DOES he piss when he's hanging out on that bridge and drinking all day?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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When we recovered the bag, we were amazed to find it full of weed ...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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What's next? The Canadians throwing baby seals off the top?
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Yup, it would appear that Pete is a royal wanker.
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orangesporanges
climber
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Hucking pigs is none halal
You are not welcome in Jannah
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Touche Tami. As soon as I wrote that I realized that could have been interpreted this way.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Throwing a bag off may have been the normal thing quite a while ago, but now it's like taking a crap next to a tree in Central Park: socially unacceptable.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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This argument/discussion/debate will continue ad nauseam until someone DOES experience Newton's 2nd and a homicide case is opened.
It will happen.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sitting there all Cobra-fattened,
Ya stay away ya won't git flattened.
But on the upriver side
Pete and Partner might have done wrong,
Judge'em after they've sung their song.
I'm sayin.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, all.... me, i don't know much about any of this... so the only i might say or add is this:
stuff falling, from high-up-rocks, is scary... :O
scarier still, not knowing where or how stuff will land, be it rocks, haul bags, or falling climbers, :(
i'm just listening and learning, from you all you all...
so this is just a non-climber cringe... :(
so hope i did not say anything too out of line...
:(
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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I was guilty of this type of thing, when I chucked my haul bag off the East Face of Washington C., after soloing the Prow back in 1970.
I sure wasn't going to haul all that crap down that infamous gully, and this was one hour after a real heavy thunderstorm came ripping thru the Valley.
In fact, I probably didn't even think about how I was going to carry that stuff down,(mostly iron back in those days).
I doubt anyone was lurking below, after that heavy rain came thru.
No, I wouldn't do it today, and besides, I don't do aid anymore either, unless you count hanging on a piece once in a while.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Hey Neebs, This is required reading to understand this thread
...and this:
http://www.elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-100212
At the bottom of the page:
On a more serious note… it seems that Piton Pete can not be convinced to give up tossing huge bags off the top of ZM, instead of carrying them down. His, and Jon Fox’s latest shipment came down at 1am last night. Alice, of Zodiac, texted that she didn’t know what hit the ground, at high velocity, as she awoke at the base, but hoped it wasn’t a base jumper.
Shame on you Pete Zabrok and Jon Fox… you are not infallible …hopefully someone else will not have to pay for your arrogance. The climbing community had a big discussion about this last season and although you emailed me, about the situation Pete, you didn’t respond to any of the discussions. Therefore, I will not report on any of your future climbs on El Capitan, nor will I photograph you, or any partner you are climbing with. As far as I am concerned, you are not welcome here at the Bridge. I have no authority here, so that is all I can do…. I think the rest of the community here agrees with my actions. What you people are doing is no joke.
So that’s the way it is, for this Tuesday, the 2nd day of October, 2012.
Later Tom
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Let the 1000 posts Donini suggests fly. It should be limited to 1 post per person. I just used mine up. Outtahere.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
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I've nearly gotten hit twice by falling bags and it was a very scary experience both times. I've always considered the route unfinished until I've carried all my gear to the parking lot.
Hopefully nobody gets hurt or killed by laziness in the future.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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In the 70s having just finished Sacherer Cracker and milling around the base a dropped or pitched haul bag trailing two floppy butt bags cratered and exploded in the midst of us. Pins were blown through the sides and stuck in trees, tuna can shrapnel was everywhere. It was a mess and it was very nearly fatal!
I understand it was more of a "norm" then but it was as wrong then as it is now.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Space Pig...Space Pig...Space Pig!
Write him up and whack his Pee-Pee, your Honor.
Lazy and feckless puke!
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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It is really startling that Zabrok and Fox would chuck their stuff, especially over such a popular spot on El Cap for people to be bivying or making earlier starts. Have they lost their minds? If and when one of those bags does hit someone or blasts them nearby at 120 mph with, as Philo says, shrapnel, it will be incredibly incredibly tragic, senseless and at the same time horrific. It likely will even cause criminal charges and certainly civil action against those who were that dumb---likely in the millions of dollars too. I have to assume too that the NPS will have to get involved and some kind of new policy or curtailment will take place and our tenuous relationship with the NPS will turn to crap again.
Tom Evans' reaction to Pete Zabrok and Jon Fox's dumb ass move is fully understandable and I support him. Tom is not being frumpy and authoritarian. Tom better than anyone sees the whole picture: all the people trudging around the base of the huge walls, the zillion climbers topping out, the horde of parties bivying everywhere part way up and consequently understands the terrific peril throwing stuff off routes presents. It is quite an intense situation these days and not at all what it was back in the seventies when bag chucking was being tested out on an empty El Capitan. It just cannot be done today, pure and simple. If you have to hike back up for a second or third load, that is simply your lot in life and hardly impossible to cope with. One would think that after braving a big wall one could keep it together sufficiently not to be this selfish.
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bigwall shitter
Social climber
Bozeman, MT
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I imagine any bag tossed off el cap would be completely blown apart by the time it impacted the ground. Those things are expensive!
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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^^^^Not if done correctly.
Kind of interesting how BITD things like this were just mentioned at the delhi or at the campground, but with cell phones and the internet a person's actions at the top of El Cap at 1AM are now sprayed all over for everyone -- including the TOOL -- to read.
I love Tom's reports, but maybe he should let climbers be climbers? Part of photojournalism is not interfering with events one is photographing. And not photographing Pete is not photographing the whole story. It would be showing Tom's own biased view of what is happening on El Cap. (One I would still look forward to frequently seeing...)
That said, SHAME ON YOU, PASS-THE-CHEATER-STICK PETE. NO LAP DANCE FOR YOU.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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I like the idea of not hearing about Pete anymore, regardless of his activities.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I love Tom's reports, but maybe he should let climbers be climbers?
Wilderness, adventure, loneliness. Come here to come to grips with your mortality.
You get the bad with the good. YOSAR is a phone call away and any Tom, Dick and Harry is allowed to watch you. El Cap is LITERALLY the stage of American Big Wall Climbing. Don't check in with Tom, ask him not to film you (he will gladly oblige), and even better - do a route that you can't pick out individual climbers out from a road if you want that true wilderness experience.
Or climb it off season, winter ascents are rare but possible on some of the more protected routes - I've never done an El Cap route (LOL PINE LINE) but that seems like a cool option to have a great adventure.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Here's a plan... Let's keep track of when Pete is going to do a wall and then head to the base when he is near the top. Wait for the missile to crater and then take it away. Free gear! After losing a few thousand dollars maybe then he will change tactics.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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There are lots of stupid things climbers do on el-cap or just in general that for the most part the community has a consensus against.
I'll try to make a list of things from lowest level of stupid to highest.
1 Yappy dogs and not picking up their crap at the crag.
2 Litter
3 Adding bolts w/o FA or concensus
4 Chopping bolts
5 Pounding pins on a consensus clean line
6 dropping sh1tbags off el-cap
7 stealing gear
8 chiseling el-cap
Now all of these just affect the climbers around or after you negatively or are simply disrespectful. They cause no real harm to other people yet someone who does these things tends to lose at least a bit of respect.
Some might say "who cares" and have a point. Except the stealing
But then there are things that border on the true criminal due to the real harm they do or could do to others
Dropping bags off el-cap in my mind is worse than anything on the above list. Simply because it's very possible to kill someone. It's no different than throwing rocks off any popular route.
I see no good argument for dropping your bags no matter how "careful" you think you are trying to be.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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As far as I am concerned, you are not welcome here at the Bridge.
Tom's got great pix and I love his reports and all, but I draw the line at owning the bridge.....
As much as Pete climbs El Cap, surely he can afford to pay some starving young Camp 4 spine to carry his gear.
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Gene
climber
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Survival,
Methinks Tom is not claiming ownership of the Bridge.
As far as I am concerned, you are not welcome here at the Bridge. I have no authority here, so that is all I can do...
Tom will not welcome bag huckers at the Bridge. That's all.
g
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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No Howdy for Huckers!
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Isn’t it fun to blame the messenger for bad news. Yep, and all those people hiking up the gullies at night, hauling loads to avoid the heat of the day … they deserve to be killed by a falling bag… of course, they do. Sorry but I am not going to sit idly by while these tosser’s play Russian Roulette … the twist is that instead of putting the gun to their own heads and pulling the trigger, they put it to someone else’s head and pull the trigger… and the kicker is that those people don’t even know they are playing!
Sorry if I offended some of your independent spirits but this isn’t Baffin Island where you are sure no one is below at any time.
How do I know that Pete and Jon tossed those bags? Climbers at the base of the Nose saw them walking by in the afternoon, coming down the east side base trail carrying haul bags with those crunched water bottles tied on to them. They were caught in the act of fetching their bags from the impact area. But maybe they hiked the bags down the east ledges, put them in Jon’s truck, carried them up to the base and them carried them down… to get more exercise??!
Pete has not responded to any efforts to change his behavior. I wrote him at the end of the season and told him that he has been very lucky in the past but that next season (this season now) I was going to call him out on it. So, he had a few months to figure out a new way to bring stuff down without tossing. He will not respond… because there is no logical reason to take such a risk and thus it is indefensible. Other, responsible people, hire starving monkey’s to carry their stuff down or make other arrangements.
It is a serious thing and I for one don’t want it on my conscience that I sat idly by and did nothing to prevent what could be a real life changer for the tosser’s and those tossed upon. Those of you who think it is no big deal should talk to Molly, Pete Absolon’s widow and her daughter, who has no father to grow up with, because some fool threw a rock off a cliff to watch it fall… and fall it did and killed Pete.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
New and Bionic too!
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Just put him on the government's "No US Entry" list. That way he can spend his vacations taking 40 days to aid up Squamish and toss his bags there.
Stupid move Pete.
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roadman
climber
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What if Tom saw a base jumper go off el cap ? Has he? Was he pissed then? Just wondering.
Illegal, dangerous to innocent people on the ground and something that in general gives climbers a bad name.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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. . . If and when one of those bags does hit someone or blasts them nearby at 120 mph with, as Philo says, shrapnel, it will be incredibly incredibly tragic, senseless and at the same time horrific. It likely will even cause criminal charges and certainly civil action against those who were that dumb---likely in the millions of dollars too. I have to assume too that the NPS will have to get involved and some kind of new policy or curtailment will take place and our tenuous relationship with the NPS will turn to crap again.
worth repeating
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Just put him on the government's "No US Entry" list. That way he can spend his vacations taking 40 days to aid up Squamish and toss his bags there.
Stupid move Pete.
You should do that. Pete will find out that hard way what happens to tossers around here!!!!
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BASE1361
climber
Yosemite Valley National Park
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Roadman,
it was a matter of time before someone would attempt to compare apples to oranges. BASE jumping off El Cap while illegal is a controlled descent. Quite different from tossing a bag off El Cap. Now I'm sure in your ignorance you will bring up an event in Oct. 1999 which you know nothing about and the COD. Again that has nothing to do with tossing bags off El Cap. Nor is even relevant to this discussion
The Canadian ASSassin has long been tossing his sh#t for 10+ years. He would brag about it constantly and even at one point temped me with beer to wait at the base for his "air delivery package" I told him to go f*#k himself. (in a polite way of course)
Bring up a valid comparison to defend the Canadian ASSassin and his lack of ethics and class. This is just another example of his character... or lack thereof
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Gene
climber
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What sort of legal charges do you think would be filed if someone below was actually killed?
Involuntary manslaughter????
California Penal Code 192(b) PC defines "involuntary manslaughter" as an unlawful killing that takes place
1.during the commission of an unlawful act (not amounting to a felony), or
2.during the commission of a lawful act which involves a high risk of death or great bodily harm that is committed without due caution or circumspection.
I honestly don't know.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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I can't believe anyone is defending the guy or the practice. Tosser is such an appropriate term.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Would you defend someone who throws rocks down the cliff???
Edit: James I was supporting your post!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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What if Tom saw a base jumper go off el cap ? Has he? Was he pissed then? Just wondering.
Illegal, dangerous to innocent people on the ground and something that in general gives climbers a bad name.
What a BS comparison and ignorant argument.
BASE doesn't give climbers any kind of a name.
BASE jumpers fly and land.
Haul bags fall and crash.
BASE jumpers really are using their brains
Bag Huckers are not using their brains.
Legalities aside BASE is hardly if ever dangerous to those in the area who are not jumping.
Hucked Haul Bags are always dangerous to everyone in the area except the Huckers.
If you had been one of the six of us at the base of ElCap in 1977 diving desperately for cover to save our lives you would not be so cavalier about this.
Kudos for exposing this. And for the record if I had a bridge, they would not be welcome.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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I hope that isn't directed at me, Big Mike. No defending here, reread my post.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Tom, don't stop reporting on Pete, just change when you choose to report. As soon as it looks like he's going to top out, report that there will be free gear in xx hours available for the enterprising dirtbag climber. Maybe put a note up in Camp 4 about the free gear too. You're just helping him have a little less gear to haul next time. I love altruism.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Go cordon off the area with Crime Scene Tape and encourage post carnage booty retrieval.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Farouk, have you ever been around or witnessed either?
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jstan
climber
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It is hard to believe the NPS can tolerate reckless endangerment of this sort. Once charges have been brought in court, at the least, Pete should not again have Yosemite as a stage upon which to play out his entirely personal drama.
Mind you, forcing the NPS to take any action at all bodes ill for climbers, and deservedly so.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Hucking bags is similar to drunk driving, except the offender does not risk themselves, only others. With the increased activity on El Cap, that risk, however small, has certainly increased as well. Activities such as this also harm our collective voice when negotiating with land managers.
Ken
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Farouk, are you calling me a liar or a non climber?
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PeteC
climber
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Huck your bags on Baffin Island if you want but not in the Valley. Examine the risk/benefit ratio.
Benefit: You don't have to carry your bags down.
Risk: You kill someone at the base.
Don't take much brainpower to figure that one out.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Is this the Friday night tossing while drunk thread??
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I'm sure Pete will chime in here eventually, but it seems he doesn't have a leg to stand on in this argument.
What he did was wrong and reckless, plain and simple.
Shame on you. You drag climbing in the minds of outsiders down to the lowest common denominator. In this case, your lowest common denominator is lazy and stupid.
Not much of an ambassador for climbing.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Problem solved. Now accepting pre-orders
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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First of all I want to state that I agree with Tom 100%. There no viable reason that someone should toss bags other than outright laziness and arrogance. I F@ckin hate the walk down but I do it because its part of the price of admission to climb the captain. I hauled all that crap up there and its my responsibility to get it down without endangering anyone else. If you don't want to carry big loads down the options are to pay some monkey to help you or take multiple trips. When my buddy and I topped out on mescalito this June we had to double carry to the top of the raps. It sucked but that's what has to happen to get the kit down. The cliffs don't belong to any one person and its arrogant to think that you don't have to follow the same rules as everyone else. In addition Pete portrays himself as a resident expert on the walls, offering tips for people carrying loads, discussing ethics, and giving out beta. If he is going to present himself as some sort of ambassador to the climbing community he has to expect that his actions will be scrutinized and that he will be held accountable. In addition some climbers probably look to him as an expert and may try to emulate his techniques as they pursue their own big wall goals. If we as a climbing community don't call him out on what almost everyone sees as a dangerous and unethical practice we are giving our silent approval and saying its okay. So I applaud Tom for calling him out. Additionly in Tom's second post he even says that he emailed Pete after the June season and said that if he tossed again that he would call him out so it's not like Pete didn't know that people were pissed and that they would be watching his actions.
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bigwall shitter
Social climber
Bozeman, MT
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pete f*#ked up, why not simmer down with all the hate so he can attempt to explain his actions. Yeah, sounds like he and jon decided they were justified in blowing off the huge safety concerns in throwing a massive load off the captain, but we all f*#k up. No one was hurt (luckily). Give them a scolding and make sure it doesn't happen again (sounds like that has happened already). Still, Pete seems like a nice and reasonable guy from his posting on here. Don't be so quick to sh#t on him, or at least tone down the level of sh#t.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I don't hate Pete. I like the guy personally. This isn't the end of the world and luckily no one has been hurt... yet.
But it needs to stop now.
He is planning on going back up in a few days. Hope someone snags his gear if he does this again
It has to stop Pete. This is rediculous man.
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Kurt Jensen
Trad climber
Aptos,CA
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Back in the early 90's, I was a young college student on big wall success attempt #2, on Leaning Tower. Attempt #1 ended when rockfall hit me in the neck on Dinner Ledge on Washington Column.
Amazingly, I survived, where others have been killed. The rock glanced off at an angle, I was in my sleeping bag, in the dark, hit by the first rock. I bit into my tongue, injured my shoulder, and couldn't stop the bleeding on the neck fully. Rocks continued to rain down for maybe 15 minutes, while the four of us on the ledge cowered close to the wall. It was extremely scary, and I duck-taped a sock to my neck and held pressure, while my partner rode the haulbag down ahead of me. We rappelled in the dark and stumbled into the Awahnee front desk, startling the night shift clerk. The clinic was called, I was stiched up and went home. We knew there were climbers above us on the column, close to the top, as we had been approached in C4 by a woman concerned that her friends should have been off already. They likely dislodged rocks hauling up the last pitch in the dark.
I won't ever sleep on Dinner Ledge again, especially with parties above!
Fast forward two years. Every time a rock falls or a bird zooms by, I cringe, but climbing is in my blood, and I've got to go do a wall. New partner and I are on Leaning Tower, and success will be ours! I'm fiddling in a ballnut in a little corner, tricky placement, and I suddenly hear this huge ripping noise. I look up, and it's a huge white haul bag, headed towards me!!! Good thing it's Leaning Tower, as it flys away from the wall and hits the talus below. I'm shaken up. We scream and curse. No one answers. We finish the wall, and go back to school. I call my earlier partner from W. Column to chat, and tell him about my climb. He get's quiet, then says "did anything strange happen up there?" Umm, ya, flying haulbag! ...Long pause, "I'm sooo sorry, that was me" He was with an unexperienced partner, attempting a wall again, unknowingly right ahead of us. His partner struggled, they ran out of water, partner's tongue swelled, they were desperate, and ditched the bag close to the top to get up and get water. They heard our screams, thought they might have injured or killed someone. They watched us from the trees at the base, and photographed us. I have that photo now, and he and I climbed 3rd Piller of Dana a few summers ago. His struggling partner? I met him at my 20th high school reunion last summer, married to one of my classmates. We all hope to climb something together.
It's a small climbing community sometimes, even though there's more of us now than ever!
There's NO justification for dropping a haulbag these days-too much risk. It's selfish and careless, and could even end up injuring or killing a friend of yours. PTPP please follow Mark Hudon's example and pay up for help if you're too lazy to carry your own beast back down. I'm fully in support of Tom on this one!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I wrote him at the end of the season and told him that he has been very lucky in the past but that next season (this season now) I was going to call him out on it...
It is a serious thing and I for one don’t want it on my conscience that I sat idly by and did nothing to prevent what could be a real life changer for the tosser’s and those tossed upon.
Tom you did things exactly the right way IMO. Let him know in private you won't stand by and let it happen. And when it did happen call him out, let everyone know and let everyone pressure him to correct his ways. If the rangers find out about it here that is much less of an problem than someone getting killed or hurt. If I was doing something so irresponsible which could lead to getting someone killed and lead me to a life of guilt and regret I'd want a friend to call me out on it and do whatever it takes to stop me. Bravo Tom.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Aside from maybe killing someone, doing stupid sh#t in full view of non-climbing visitors and the NPS will result in "management" of climbing. We currently have freedoms in Yosemite that are unheard of in other parks and stuff like this is a direct threat to being more or less unrestricted in how we go about climbing there.
People that make throwing bags seem like some sort of on the down low cool-local-monkeys are sending thing are morons. I bet the parkies knew about the bags before this thread was posted--probably from a tourist reporting falling bodies--so I wouldn't worry about them learning about it here.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Not that I'm advocating public shunning of any one person or party…..
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WBraun
climber
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I remember throwing my hauls bags off back in the day.
Only hit a couple of people back then.
Back then guys were tough as 4x4 wooden posts.
They only suffered a slight headache and stiff neck for a few hours and some common aspirin cured that.
These days they will be dead from the same fate.
Meh ......
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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This is Canada declaring war
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WBraun
climber
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Back then men were men and women were women.
Now a days men come from monkeys and want to be women and women want to be men .....
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Now a days men come from monkeys and want to be women and women want to be men .....
 What Werner is saying is… He liked it better back in the day when he was a she and monkeys liked her… When all he needed after getting clubbed in the head was an aspirin.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I learned how to do wheelies in a chair after being hit by a rock knocked off the top of the wall I was on, so reckless tossing is hardly something I approve of.
But this thread has the malodorous flavor of a lynching. Let he who is without sin tie the rope.
I'm outta here.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Ok so canada has attacked our talus field what next?
They say they're sorry and make an ice sculpture of Tom that they all ice skate around while holding hands.
Silly Canadiens, they can't fight.
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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Back when men were men and sheep were scared. :-)
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bigwall shitter
Social climber
Bozeman, MT
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Back when men were men and sheep were scared. :-)
Back when? you ain't never been to Montana!
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Tez
Mountain climber
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About 20 years ago, I went on a fishing trip with my dad and uncle to a remote lake in Canada. The lake was about a quarter mile wide and 30 miles long. I assume it was glacier carved. We were the only ones on the lake. The law was you could only keep 2 fish per person each day. The lake was filled with fish and we did a lot of catch and release (only keeping a fish if we hurt it). To some, it would seem silly to have a limit on fishing when there was such an abundance of fish.
As my uncle put it: "If you don't like their laws, stay out of the country. This is their country and they make the laws."
My uncle was right.
If Pete does not like our rule of not hucking his haul bag, he should not come here.
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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bigwall shitter...I was born in Bozeman.Moved to Bishop 14 years ago.Whole family still lives there.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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But this thread has the malodorous flavor of a lynching. Let he who is without sin tie the rope.
On Belay motherf*#ker!
;D
Times were different, no shame, Ron... not as many on the cap'n I'm sure, and we all make mistakes in life.
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jfailing
Trad climber
Lone Pine
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Wait, so the consensus is... anger about him dropping his bags? I think we still need a few hundred more posts to really know how people feel about it.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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**but we all f*#k up.**
Are you serious?
Even a small child could understand the danger.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Werner, slack you dipstick.
Can I toss a bag on you from the top of el-cap?
If you live, you will be "a man with a stiff neck"
If you die, I'll tell everyone you wanted to be a woman.
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MisterE
Social climber
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What JStan said.
Reckless endangerment is a crime consisting of acts that create a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. The accused person isn't required to intend the resulting or potential harm, but must have acted in a way that showed a disregard for the foreseeable consequences of the actions.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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For the record I'm not advocating lynching Pete, and I know they were down a partner but this kinda of thing just is not acceptable.
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BASE1361
climber
Yosemite Valley National Park
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Silver I respect you but one act that any good person would do when someone is in need of medial attention is quite different from endangering the lives of others. Again apples vs oranges
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Just put him on the government's "No US Entry" list. That way he can spend his vacations taking 40 days to aid up Squamish and toss his bags there.
When Pete does something like this, he's the American assassin - he has dual citizenship. So you can't keep him out.
And please don't be throwing your bags off Baffin Island. It makes a mess in a real wilderness, plus only a fool would be separated from her/his equipment in that environment.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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As I said a few times in this thread.
I like Pete. But regardless even if he was my best friend... hell especially if he was my best friend I'd have to take him to task for this.
Does not mean I wont be glad to see him again sometime .. hell.. I'd be glad to climb with him.
Once he stops dropping bags for once and all
Which has to happen
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Someone runs to call 911 when a guy who is essentially part of his climbing team at the time gets hurt...and you expect accolades for that? F*#kin'a man, that's bare minimum I'd expect, not some heroic achievement. Get your goggles on straight, you're not seeing this very clearly IMO.
Tossing bags, in prime season, when there WAS someone at the base...not
"could be", WAS someone right next to the drop zone...is he trying to even the karmic balance? Help save one, kill another to compensate?
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jstan
climber
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I spoke to Pete he gets it now. It will never happen again.
Is a third party report of such a declaration an adequate response when the lives of bystanders are at stake?
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Just for the record here.
My accident is a totally separate incident from this and I would really like it to stay that way. I owe Jon and Pete my life. End of story there. I do not want one action to be sullied or enhanced by the other.
However.
Even with that being the case, I do not in any way shape or form condone anyone tossing anything off a big wall. Or cliff. Or building. Even if you know it's clear, sh#t happens. Not only that, you're doing a hell of a lot of impact damage to gear that you depend on for your life. Not to mention 50 other reasons why it's a bad idea.
If the facts are what has been stated, then I am going to be super disappointed with the individuals involved.
But I wasn't there - and neither were most of the people posting here. Until I talk to Pete and Jon face to face, I am going to wait to start throwing stones at glass walls. And I will talk to them face to face about it.
And that's all I have to say.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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He is sorry he will stay away from the bridge, he will earn your trust through actions not words and I for one am willing to believe Pete.
I'd like him to apologize for his own actions.
We can seperate people an events. Hitler was a great painter (lol Godwin's law) and I'm a terrible chef. Give actions the weight they deserve.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Yeah that would be a great defense in court. But ya see yer honor I had nookie waiting at camp.
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malabarista
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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The Hubers almost killed us with a hall bag they dropped accidentally back in 2003. Thomas did rap down and apologize profusely...no hard feelings.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Back when men were men and sheep were scared. :-)
Back in Kazakhstan sheep are women. That's why they are scared ; )
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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Wow, so much hate. So much self-righteous indignation.
How many of you have never broken a rule in the Park? Never bivied in the boulders? In your van?
I did for years.
Has anyone ever been killed by a falling haulbag? Sure, I guess it could happen but the odds???
Did he parachute it or just let it fly?
Way back in the 90s when I was doing walls the bag toss was commonplace, and no, I never did. And no, I’m not a huge Pete fan.
I guess what I’m saying is- when did tattling to the tool on your fellow climber become so cool. Kind of makes me want to take up golf or something.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Don't tattle, booty!
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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So many parallels with drunk driving...
The aptly named bigwall shitter has told us:
No one was hurt (luckily). Give them a scolding and make sure it doesn't happen again
Have you lost someone to a drunk driver? If so, were you willing to quickly:
Don't be so quick to sh#t on him, or at least tone down the level of sh#t.
Sure, the approach to the Captain is not the 405 late Saturday night, but the actions here are no different than what happens each and every day on our highways.
Did everyone see Werner's post on the duplicate thread?
So it CAN happen and it DOES happen. Perhaps the next victim will be your girlfriend, son, daughter, dad, mom, best friend, etc. Then will you remain toned down in your rhetoric?
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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My last word one this... when I contacted Pete at the end of last season I told him that all he had to do was just say " I have tossed bags in the past and I will not do so in the future" and all the mess would go away. Never got an answer. Also we have been fortunate that all the close calls were just that and now we can go forward with the knowledge that there is not just long odds against hitting someone but now there is ZERO chance of hitting anyone because no bags will go flying. Simple solution. I too like Pete and accept his weirdness as the charge for having a diverse group. I actually defend his "big wall camping" to the tourons because he does have a point and although I never camped like that it does make some sense. I only called him out after I realized that he was not going to listen to any of us individually so we ALL needed to put pressure on him.
Thank you guys for helping make him see the brashness of his actions. I will welcome him back to the community when he just tells us the simple words I wrote above. Sorry it had to go this far.
Time to end this thread.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Let's hear from the man himself to end this thread. Pete?
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Put this puppy to bed Tom, you must be kidding?
"There once was a climber name Pete
Whose antics were far from discreet.
Best known as a wanker
He's more like a chancre
On climbing élan and technique."
By order of the Blue Cagoule
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Now wouldn't that be nice, a word from the abused ( I mean't accused) and then, hopefully, an end to the conjecture and pontification on this thread.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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This is like, the one thread people could possibly be justified in stealing. Look how many jump to it, lol.
ME ME I'LL ROB HIM ME I'LL STEAL FROM HIM!
Yup. That's how it works.
It's convenient when, in your eyes, the best form of punishment nets you a bunch of material toys and things.
Mob mentality is scary, like everyone cant WAIT to get a reason to sh#t all over someone so they go massively overboard when one of those oppurtinities presents itself.
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dipper
climber
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PTPP,
Rarely are you at a loss for words.
Now a discussion about some activity by you, some very foolish, selfish, dangerous and illegal activity, and you have bupkiss to say?
Sack up and own up.
Can you not trade places, imagine yourself at the base with some fool dropping things from above and see why you need to stop doing this?
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MisterE
Social climber
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I wonder how many of these "Base-bootyers" will be hanging out, endangering themselves at the base, to be the first ones after the "Hiss, BOOM!"
There would be some morbid irony there, not that I would wish it on anyone...
Jess sayin'
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Prod
Trad climber
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You touch my bag and you'd be one sorry Prod and you can count on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So then you toss your haul bags as well?
Prod.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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I have little climbing experience in Yosemite and I have never done a "big wall." Can someone please explain what you would put in the bag that is tossed. Wouldn't a lot of the stuff in it and the bag itself be destroyed from the drop?
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Can someone please explain what you would put in the bag that is tossed.
A bunch of turds in paper bags...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I have little climbing experience in Yosemite and I have never done a "big wall." Can someone please explain what you would put in the bag that is tossed. Wouldn't a lot of the stuff in it and the bag itself be destroyed from the drop?
Semen and O.E., mostly.
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BASE1361
climber
Yosemite Valley National Park
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Sounds like admission of guilt on the Canadian ASSissan and time for a fine and ban from the tOOl
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Funny. But seriously, what's in the bag and isn't it destroyed?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dunno never tossed one. But there are plenty of things that would survive the fall just fine..Clothes, Rope sleeping bag, Extra food, Most of the rack should be fine. The bag? hard to say depend what it hit I suppose.. But bags are quite repairable. Not the portaledge of course.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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I will welcome him back to the community when he just tells us the simple words I wrote above. Sorry it had to go this far.
So the guy that takes the pictures is the one who decides to kick someone out of the community, or take them back? I must become friends with this dude!
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Holy smokes, folks... Points have been made, lathers have been sufficiently worked up into...
Go to bed.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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But seriously, what's in the bag and isn't it destroyed?
As was said above, pitons, slings, clothes, empty cans, empty H2O, sleep bags got chucked.
Cameras, cams, carabiners, ropes, portaledges, weed etc got lugged down.
And yes I was guilty, a number of times. 1984 was the last time I pitched I believe.
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salad
climber
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as long as they didnt drink and drive i dont see the problem. i mean its el cap...what are the odds of someone getting injured? there really arent that many people at the base of the captain.
ya'all need to chill out and let boys be boys.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
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Go to bed.
But, first a bed time story...
My brother and I sat in a portaledge at the 14th pith of the Pacific Ocean Wall, halfway up El Cap. We had been hammered by the weather for three days straight. It was not the best choice for a big wall camp but the storm hit with such a force it surprised every party on the wall. We were the last of the warriors on an empty battle field that got wiped clean by mostly rescuers.
The belay that third morning was under ten inches of ice, the thought of chopping it out seemed like too much effort. We were weak with hypothermia and our skin was so raw and water logged that gobs of flesh would tear off if we accidently scraped it against something too hard. The sun was finally up and clouds of moisture was engulfing us while it tried to dry everything in its path. We were hoping it would melt our belay anchor so we could unclip the carabiners for our retreat.
We were in a very bad place, mentally and physically. It was so bad that it was easy to imagine just going to sleep, taking a nice relaxing breath and never waking up. It would be so easy, I kept thinking.
There was no way we were going to make all these traversing rappels with all of the gear we had. At some point, Gabe and I, agreed that we were going to have to toss all of our wet soft gear, sleeping bags, cloths, etc. It weighed a ton and it was just too much to manage in our condition. We yelled “ROCK”, for ten minutes and then kicked the haul bag and watched it gather speed, the sound splitting the air like a missile. It was the only time I had tossed a haul bag and wasn’t all that happy about feeling forced into it.
It took us over eight hours to maneuver the overhangs, traverses and pendulums. I lead the descent and was absolutely worked from the ordeal. My brother had it worse at times back aiding the “Central Latitudes” and other shenanigans that I had to pull to get the job done. We cleaned up our mess at the base and managed to make it back to the parking lot where we had to ask a complete stranger to help us take off our harnesses because our hands were frost bitten and useless... which the numbness in our fingers lasted six months.
The next day we rolled into the café for some morning grub. We couldn’t bother with a shower just yet and cleared out a complete section of rock monkeys from our stench.
Later that day Werner congratulated us on the self rescue with a slap on our backs, SAR was watching us the entire time. I sheepishly apologized about tossing the haul bag and he agreed that we did what we had to do.
Looking back on why I felt so bad about tossing stems from the fear I felt from almost being hit by a bag.
Anyway, I’m hoping there's some things to learn from this tale, I know I did.
Good night...
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Great post Ammon. 'night matey.
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BASE1361
climber
Yosemite Valley National Park
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Thanx Ammon. Nice adventure.....
I can see you and Gabe like WTF over.
You have a conscious.
Heal fast.
Thanx again
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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EDIT: Sorry, I was tired and did not read in Salad's sarcasm. My bad! Sorry Salad! Nice work!
there really arent (sic) that many people at the base of the captain.
Nope, no one waiting for LF, Zodiac, Salathé, Nose, etc. It is always so vacant down at the base. I am amazed how nothing has changed there in the past few decades. I would have thought it would be more popular and people would be waiting to start the most popular routes!
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crasic
climber
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Wasn't the soloist on zodiac woken up by the bag hitting the ground as she bivvied at the base?
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salad
climber
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sorry if my sarcasm was missed.... could not be more against the pansy ass attitude of throwing bags in this day and age...
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Nice work Salad. My Bad!
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salad
climber
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no bad IHP. i was trying to be vague because:
1) i dont belong to climbing history
2) ive never been a good climber
3) ive only climbed the captain once
4) ive only climbed a few walls
5) i havent done sh#t in a few years cause im a fat ol father of 2 (no excuse i know)
but it pisses me the fck off that people throw sh#t off the top of any climb.
oh fck.. here is a good example, mutha fckin duh...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/432518/Pete-Absolon-killed-in-Wind-River-accident
how the fck can anyone throw anyting off the top of a climb these days?
it makes me sick that people are so into themselves, and so effing weak physically and psychologically to not finish the job with style and class.
i try and stay out of these debates beacause i know that i suck at climbing and all the hard ass mother fckrs on this forum would laugh me back into next week for throwing out my dumb ass opinions...
whatever. you suck if you cant get your stuff down on your own, of course barring life threating situations when dropping is your only choice.
anyway whatever, this thread pisses me off. quit throwing your bags off el cap. if i can top out and in july and get my sht down, surely you can.
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Matt
Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
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What if they were attacked by a large number of naked women on top and accidentally dropped the bags?
wouldn't it have had to be a hoard of 14yr olds if PtHP was so distracted by it? just sayin...
in all honesty, these are far from the 1st ethical transgressions the guy has been associated with, and the idea that he'll magically develop some character is, well, kinda far fetched, IMO.
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E
Social climber
Tujunga CA.
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el cap is a round trip deal. ya gotta carry all your stuff to the base. then you have to climb it.
Now when you are totally beat you have to break it down and carry it off.
i can carry 90 lbs off in just a few hrs. maybe a second trip depending on partners.
I have launched my stuff twice off the captain, first one we cut the whole load loose with no chute from high on the Horse chute to enable a 10 pitch day and overall 3 day climb. second time was after zm with my friend Greg Byrne. Both times we lost gear cuz we were pretty dumb. Nobody around back then to endanger. Also launched a curry ledge off with walt. We threw it off just as the wind picked up. The ledge became a flying wing and we watched it fly smartly around the corner of the east buttress and dissappear. Found it at slabhappy pinnacle.
Way too many people around to throw stuff any more.
EE
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E
Social climber
Tujunga CA.
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thumbs down for improper climbing content
180 posts.....losers
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Its long-distance capability increases safety for the aircrew and the receiving unit, reducing the need for ground logistics. It is currently being used in operational theater to reliably deliver supplies and equipment to US forces in remote locations.
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The MicroFly™ is designed to utilize the same canopy as the HAHO/HALO insertion teams to allow both equipment and jumper to land together.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Well all I can say is that I am aghast!
Survival was a tosser.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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GUIDED PRECISION AERIAL DELIVERY SYSTEM
With that delivery system Pete can drop his bags right at the bridge.
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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thumbs down for improper climbing content
180 posts.....losers
hahaha!
Aren't there enough people in Camp 4 willing to go up and carry sh#t down for a fee?
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John M
climber
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with the time limits camp 4 isn't the dirtbag holding pen it use to be.
Plus dirtbag prices have gone up. 100 bucks a bag is getting a bit steep for some folks.
I have an idea for cutting cost. Hire a dirtbag to make certain the landing zone is clear, and then drop them and have the dirtbag haul the pigs out from the base. A couple of radios or cell phones should handle the communication issues.
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John M
climber
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there are dirtbags. They just don't live in camp 4 anymore.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Gotta live in the woods with the damn stay restrictions at c4
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Yew tards.
Follow the money.
Back the hell in the day we got $100 for carrying a 50-pound load to the top for CBS News. With inflation and a generous discount for climbing brotherly love, it's not feasible for less than $125/RT. Dirtbag economics dictates expediency, however: take what they offer and be happy. If they don't offer, ask. If you never ask, you are a tard and don't deserve to be a dirtbag.
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E
Social climber
Tujunga CA.
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price for 55 lb load from the nose is $150 all day long. more from further over. its worth $200 easy. Wanna know why? whole days work, you got to jug. Then you gotta get the stuff, organize it, and then rap with the load on usually sh#t fixed lines. its actually sorta dangerous, why do you think that people pay to get their stuff removed from the summit.
E
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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The American dirtbag is an overpaid wimp.
Not only do most porters in the Himalaya area go barefoot, they also use tumplines, bearing the entire load on their head, suitable for monster loads up to 320 pounds! Plus they work cheap.
The Nepali porter is amazingly strong despite his her small stature. On average they can carry around 75 kg loads in baskets which are strapped with a tumpline on their forehead. They start at an early age of 10 with ‘small’ loads of 22kgs. The porters on the Everest trail carry up to 145kgs for the local market.
Here's a barefoot teenage porter in Nepal:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/20428407
http://www.18531.com/2009/04/sherpa-barefoot-on-top-of-mount-everest-to-find-their-own-cattle/
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Just a thought - maybe people are taking way more than they need.
I never needed bottles of wine, boomboxes, or stoves.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Or firewood, barbecues, etc...
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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And if they do Dingus, They shoud:
1) Be climbing.
2) Be drinking a beer at the summit after climbing.
3) Be bailing from a climb.
4) Be getting a rescue from YOSAR on a climb.
Not camping out a spot for booty.
THOUGH a great RIP thread would ensue...
"!@#%$!@$ died doing what he loved, waiting at the base of a climb for PTPP's haul bag. He waited the right spot, but forgot to avoid it, and ultimately paid the price."
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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And if they do Dingus, They shoud:
Nope. Nobody's doing Dingus either.
Nada
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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I'm so happy you didn't list the things that people should do to Dingus WHILE doing him!
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| Messages 1 - 165 of total 165 in this topic |
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