Todd Skinners failed harness - update

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 81 - 100 of total 140 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Offset

climber
seattle
Feb 28, 2014 - 03:37pm PT

Also, a rappel on a Grigri only uses half of the rope and, therefore, there is less rope to stretch and absorb force.

this is 10000% wrong..fyi

atc = two strands of rope
gri gri = 1 strand of rope

assume rope is a spring

atc = springs in parallel ==> stiffer effective spring = higher forces.

all other things being equal, one strand of rope is half the force on the system compared to two strands.


labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 28, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
BD's testing of worn. Loops.

http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/qc-lab-strength-of-worn-belay-loops.html
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 28, 2014 - 03:41pm PT
Indeed Slabbo! After the parachute rig i upgraded to a LOWE alpine harness and hangin round in those near kilt a body!
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Feb 28, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
Hey, FYI WTF- Yates won't resling older cams (10yrs).
I just did this and went to Fish. Better price and tubular webbing not dyneema. good workmanship from a cottage(or cabana as it were)business.
WTF

climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
Thanks Jefe.

What was I thinking the Fish needs to work. ;)
Alpamayo

Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
Feb 28, 2014 - 03:56pm PT
Wired Bliss just re-slung about 12 cams of mine and also repaired a few trigger wires. They did an awesome job. (Aliens, Camalots, Metolius)
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 28, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
Don't try to change the subject and add personal attacks again Coz. How about supporting your previous statements with the truth and some facts?

Same old Coz. Just a different login name....

edit. I'll take the dork part with a smile :-)

WBraun

climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
Just be on safe side always.

After every climb throw all your gear into the dumpster and get new gear
just like the pros do .....

:-)
WBraun

climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
Let Coz tell you how my gear was always top notch and perfect condition :-)

LOL

Our first climb together Coz sees my rope and imediately says holy sh!t !!! you lead Hahaha

Core shots everywhere LOL

Then a few years later he sees my rack and says that's the same fuked up rack you had years ago.

You're gonna die.

A couple of weeks later a mysterious package arrives with a brand new rack in it.

Coz was worried I would not survive another year with my original rack.

bless his soul.

Majid got scared looking at my tattered harness and gets me a brand new one.

Bless his soul.

My figure of eight when I came back from Borneo had grooves half way thru
it from all the grit in the static lines and people were telling me I'm gonna die using it still.

So I replaced it and break tested it.

It broke at 10,000 lbs .....

What me worry :-)


deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Feb 28, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
Holey Moley Werner--when I think of all those raps we used to do on your blown-out, core-shotted, tattered, thow-it-in-the-back-of-the-Lemans-where-you'd-repair-all-the-dirtbags-batteries-and-other-junk 7mm cord, I still cringe!
WBraun

climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 04:49pm PT
Ducey

How the hell did we ever survive????
WTF

climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
I bet that Werner upgrades more than you think. He's picked up enough carcasses to know better than to use heavily used and worn gear.

Or not!

Just curious Duece and Werner.

Was it money or just the fact you thought it was still functioning and why replace it.

WBraun

climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
Was it money or just the fact you thought it was still functioning and why replace it.

When you have core shots and only the sheath is damaged why worry? :-)

The core is strong enough? :-)

I once jugged the core because the sheath failed.

Nothing happened ... I'm still here :-)
crunch

Social climber
CO
Feb 28, 2014 - 05:25pm PT
Back in the day, when my belay loop began to look worn I'd tie a short loop to be used in tandem with the original, frayed, belay loop. Kinda clunky but provided effective redundancy till the day I got around to buying a new harness.

Misty Mountain's recently redesigned Titan harness has a similar and much neater feature built in: two separate belay loops. One is neatly, snugly nested tight inside the other. They are both burly, rated to 6000 lbs.

Redundancy, built right in.

In use I just clip in my belay/rappel biner to both, never notice any difference. Only reason I even noticed this was that they use different colored webbing for both.

I think this was done in response to Todd's accident. Clever idea; almost Todd-proof
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 28, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
"stop your sad little smear campaign"

Coz,
It's not me that has a problem. If harnesses are mentioned you bash BD. I get it.

It would be cool if you could demonstrate with data, demonstration, list of accidents, near accidents, pictures, or a picture of a diagram drawn on a well used napkin. Something!

You cannot. I get it.

I also use and own a bunch of BD gear. Do I own or use BD harnesses? No. Misty Mountain and Petzl harnesses? Yes, I just like them better because they suit my purposes.

Erik
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Feb 28, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
Credit: Rankin
Credit: Rankin
Credit: Rankin


Coz is correct. Black Diamond only bar tacks through two of the three loops. No argument to be made here. This is a fact.
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Mar 1, 2014 - 02:38am PT
Rankin,
I never argued if the belay loop is double or triple. What I took issue with was the strength statements he made. Good job being distracted by coz's misdirection. I've read that BD has reasons for how they construct the belay loops. I believe the extra unbartacked wrap actually protects the bartack from abrasion. Please note the belay loop strengths noted in BD'a report compared to Coz's statements.
Erik
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 1, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
Interesting data from the BD site linked to above:

How strong is a belay loop?
From the Black Diamond Harness Instructions: A Black Diamond harness belay loop can withstand 15 kN (3372 lbf) of force.

CE requirements: The CE required testing is a bit difficult to describe, but basically, the belay loop must withstand 15 kN for a period of 3 minutes.

Actual Black Diamond test data: Though our inline batch test rating is 3372 lbf, we regularly see belay loops test to over 6000 lbf, with a historical average of over 5000 lbf.

** Note: I've tested several other manufacturers' belay loops and they all are in the same ballpark for ultimate strength.


Coz, do you have a bone to pick with BD harnesses because you worked with their harness team and they didn't take your advice? Seems to me that BD harnesses are in line with other manufactures.

Also, bar-tacks through two of three layers of webbing seems fine to me. Perhaps a more important question is how many bar tacks does each manufacture use?


Still, the debate is moot--gear wears out and the longer you use old and worn gear, the higher the chance is the gear will fail due to wear. I hate throwing out ropes just because they are old. I had a rap line (a half line) that I rarely used for leading (love to double up that thing for simul-climbing). The thing was over 15 years old, and looked fine to me. Shucks, just a little more than body weight while rapping, right?

I got a new one, just because.
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Mar 1, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
Talk about having an axe to grind. And I'm not talking about Coz either. Some of you need to quit looking for slights where there is none.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 1, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
Black Diamond Equipment’s history dates back to the late 1950s, when climber Yvon Chouinard began hand-forging pitons and selling them from the trunk of his car in Yosemite Valley. Chouinard’s pitons quickly gained a reputation for quality, and Chouinard Equipment was born soon after in Ventura, California.[2]
In early 1989, after several product-liability lawsuits and a continued lack of profitability, Yvon Chouinard placed the company in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Black Diamond was founded on December 1, 1989, when the assets of Chouinard Equipment Ltd. were purchased by a group of former company employees led by current Black Diamond Equipment CEO Peter Metcalf, and a few outside investors. Peter Metcalf moved the company and its 45 employees from Ventura, California to the Salt Lake City, Utah area in September 1991 to be closer to the climbing and skiing opportunities provided by the Wasatch Mountains.
In 1996, Black Diamond Equipment Europe was established in Reinach, Switzerland, making Black Diamond products widely available throughout Europe. In 2006, Black Diamond Equipment Asia was established in Zhuhai, China to serve as both a secondary manufacturing facility as well as a global distribution hub.[3] In May 2010, Black Diamond Equipment was acquired for $90 million by Clarus Corporation which owns Armor inc, a military defense contractor. The resulting corporation was renamed and is now publicly traded on the NASDAQ under the name Black Diamond, Inc. (BDE)





Originally all Black Diamond equipment was produced in the United States by American workers. In order to save money by laying off US workers, much of the manufacturing was moved offshore. Black Diamond Equipment Asia located in Zhuhai, China produces most of the company’s products including backpacks, tents, clothing, cams and ice tools. Some carabiners, crampons, climbing skins, and Stoppers are made in its Utah factory.[8] Black Diamond also maintains an in-house Quality Assurance lab staffed by a team of engineers responsible for performing batch testing, stress analysis and quality control on all Black Diamond products.[9] Batch testing refers to testing a few products from each production run. Not all products are tested. Usually, the first item produced, some items from the middle production and the last are pulled and tested.




And so it seems from the above^^^^ Black Diamond is another GE. Moving its manufacturing to CHINA. Its a corporation and all about the $$$$ while forsaking its originator and country. Sort of doubt it was the direction Yvon Chouinard would have preferred for his sold off company.
Messages 81 - 100 of total 140 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews