Todd Skinners failed harness - update

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Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Mar 1, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
Talk about having an axe to grind. And I'm not talking about Coz either. Some of you need to quit looking for slights where there is none.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Mar 1, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
My partner and I climbed for a season in Yosemite on a rope that had multiple core shots. We just put adhesive tape over the worn spots on the sheath. Most of the strength of the rope is in the core. Anyone know of any tests on the strength of a rope with just the core versus core + sheath?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 1, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
Bruce, a buddy of mine used to say something like 25% of a rope's strength was in the sheath. I never saw any stats to back that up.


Who had the story of climbing on a harness made of 2" webbing, the original "swami belt", that had a taped section in the middle. Then, after some time using this "harness" realized that the tape in the middle was actually holding together the ends of two different sections of webbing??


Fantastico!
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Mar 2, 2014 - 07:34am PT
The taped swami belt story is TM Herbert's, I think. May have been on an El Cap FA.
kennyt

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 2, 2014 - 11:40am PT
And so it seems from the above^^^^ Black Diamond is another GE. Moving its manufacturing to CHINA. Its a corporation and all about the $$$$ while forsaking its originator and country. Sort of doubt it was the direction Yvon Chouinard would have preferred for his sold off company.

Take a look at where Patagonia clothing is made.
WBraun

climber
Mar 2, 2014 - 11:42am PT
The taped swami belt story is TM Herbert's,

Yes .... I believe it was on Sentinel and not El Cap ....
life is a bivouac

Trad climber
Mar 2, 2014 - 12:04pm PT
I believe the taped swami story could be cleared up by Don Lauria; I believe he was there when it happened...
WBraun

climber
Mar 2, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
I heard the story from TM himself but the route it happened on I forgot but pretty sure it was not El Cap ....
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Mar 2, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
Once again, on all harnesses except Black Diamond the belay loop is the strongest part of the harness.

That's interesting, the harness in the image below is an old BD harness from 1996 which is still in use. And, yes, the belay loop does seem a bit light. With that said, I always back up the belay loop with a loop of cord. In the case below, it is 5.5mm Spectra. I also put a light swami belt/chalk bag holder loop of 1" tube webbing around my waist, tied in a water knot, and loop the climbing rope tie-in through that as an ultimate back-up.

A little extra weight is not going to effect my 5.9c- climbing abilities too much.

** I know the buckle is not buckled properly. But it's just holding air.

wivanoff

Trad climber
CT
Mar 2, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
Bruce Kay wrote:
Many years ago I was told by Dave Lane ( the principal genius behind Archteryx) that "in line" stitching ( my term... no idea what its called) is much superior per stitch or whatever, than the ubiquitous bar tack.


I think that's true.

"Off Belay" magazine had an article about sewing your own slings. They showed stitching patterns (multiple rows parallel to the length of the sling), type of thread, stitches per inch, length of splice, etc.

Looks like the same article was also published by Cal Magnussen here http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nhback/NH03.pdf see page 11
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Mar 2, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
Here's the webbing test mentioned by Vivanoff as given in Nylon Highway.

Note that, forty years since those tests, specialized bar-tacking machines might do better than BITD.

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 2, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
I have had many over the years. Misty Mountain is a little heavier, but the quality is great and it is really comfortable.

Good advice Coz.
WBraun

climber
Mar 2, 2014 - 05:13pm PT
What about Tuckers El Cap and free climbing harness BITD?

A single one wrap piece of one inch nylon webbing around his waist with no leg loops.

LOL .... hard core

No one I know has ever done it but him, lol
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 2, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
Yep. He is not like the rest of tho.....

rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Mar 2, 2014 - 09:39pm PT
Yup, Tucker is running my old harness's. I give them to him, he cuts the leg loops off, and away he goes!
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Mar 2, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
Coz is correct in that most people climb on their harnesses for way too long. A couple years can put a lot of damage on a harness if it's the only one you use. Hell, you can get a really good harness for 50-75 bucks these days. Inspect your gear often, and especially with soft gear, err on the side of caution. Period.

rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Mar 2, 2014 - 10:00pm PT
If you are really worried about single points of failures with belay loops etc, the Metolius Safe Tech Deluxe is a good harness. It has two belay loops, and all the gear loops are full strength. Meaning, you could actually tie into them. Why you would do that is not clear to me, but you can. I've been running one for a few years now for guide work.

I'm not worried about the single belay loop model of harness, but some info to pass along.
sowr

Trad climber
CA
Mar 2, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
A tragic accident, I was shocked when I heard the cause of the accident, it was very sobering that this could happen to such an experienced climber. What is the takeaway?

When I'm on a climb I belay through that loop, but because I have tied in through the belt and leg loop, forming a rope loop so to speak I clip that loop too, so my belay biner is clipped into two loops. If I need to rappel I take the belay biner off the belay loop and clip it through the belt and leg loop. I know those belay loops are strong but I've always tried to use redundancy wherever possible, without being ridiculous. The accident would never have happened using this procedure. I try to minimize SPOF (single points of failure).
Ratagonia

Social climber
Mt Carmel, Utah
Mar 5, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
Ron Anderson: did you make this BS up yourself, or did someone else post it on the Wikipedia.

"Originally all Black Diamond equipment was produced in the United States by American workers. In order to save money by laying off US workers, much of the manufacturing was moved offshore. Black Diamond Equipment Asia located in Zhuhai, China produces most of the company’s products including backpacks, tents, clothing, cams and ice tools. Some carabiners, crampons, climbing skins, and Stoppers are made in its Utah factory.[8]"

In addition to being slanderous, it also happens to be incorrect.

Tom
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Mar 5, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
Ha!

Ratagonia bring us the TRUTH!!!

Are they, or are they not manufacturing in China?

The move was to save operating cost, or increase quality?

Are the nuts still made in Utah?

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