Healthcare Debate in USA

I prefer a single payer (medicare)type of program. Not some greedy vultures who want to profit off my misfortune, deny coverage, and profit off of collecting my premium while denying that coverage.

Single Payer

anything else is failure

Who cares where Obama was born?!


Jody

climber

35/53k


Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 3, 2012 - 05:30pm PT

The problem is where he lives now.

Jody,

You wouldn't know a hypocrite if he was staring you in the mirror.

Norton, how many of these bums will pay the fine and what happens if they don't? They go to jail where I end up supporting them anyway? What? I fail to see how that will stop freeloaders.

RJ, no, I don't trust the government. I don't work for them, I work for the citizens.

US health care: It's officially a mess, institute says

By Maggie Fox, NBC News

September 6, 2012, 7:26 pm


NBCNews.com

If banking were like health care, it would take days to get money out of an ATM because the records would be lost. If airlines were like health care, pilots would decide on their own which safety checks to make, if any. If shopping were like health care -- well, you get the picture.

It’s a mess, the Institute of Medicine says in a report released on Thursday. The U.S. health care system wasted $750 billion in 2009, about 30 percent of all health spending, on unnecessary services, excessive administrative costs, fraud, and other problems. As many as 75,000 people who died in 2005 would have lived if they got the kind of care provided in the states with the best medical systems, the Institute found.

The report, issued just as candidates for Congress and for president make health care reform a central part of the national debate, doesn’t pull any punches. The panel of experts assembled by the Institute, an independent body that is supposed to provide a non-partisan last word on important issues, leaves no doubt that U.S. health care now is anything but the best in the world.

"The threats to Americans' health and economic security are clear and compelling, and it's time to get all hands on deck," says Mark Smith, president and CEO of the California HealthCare Foundation in Oakland and chairman of the panel.

"Our health care system lags in its ability to adapt, affordably meet patients' needs, and consistently achieve better outcomes."

But there's hope. "We have the know-how and technology to make substantial improvement on costs and quality. Our report offers the vision and road map to create a learning health care system that will provide higher quality and greater value," Smith says.

“What I am seeing around the country is that people are absolutely committed to reform,” says James Conway of the Harvard School of Public Health and the Institute for Healthcare Improvement in Massachusetts, who served on the panel.

“Whether you look at the Republican platform or the Democratic platform, you find in pretty strong language the importance of developing a high quality health care system.”

One of the biggest problems is that health insurers, hospitals and health systems don’t learn from their mistakes, the report says. Half of all health care professionals still neglect to wash their hands properly before seeing patients, even though it’s one of the main causes of infections that kill tens of thousands of patients every year.

An organized system that finds out what went wrong and where, and then provides for the health system to correct those mistakes right away would save money and lives. It’s possible in a computerized world, but it’s not happening on a systematic basis. Hospitals that report every single infection and ruthlessly track down where it came from have found they can cut infection rates to zero, for instance.

Yet just this week the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that a third of Americans have high blood pressure and only half of them have it under control. There are dozens of drugs to treat it, not to mention diet and exercise methods. It took 13 years for one of those drug types, the beta-blockers, to become the standard of care even after they had been clearly demonstrated to work, the report says.

What’s missing, the report says, is coordination. “What I see is people doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Everyone has their little initiative. And back at the ranch, the doctor, the individual provider, is drowning in the sea of initiatives,” Conway says. “What is missing is a much more systemic and collective response.”

The report points to two main problems. “One is the increasingly unmanageable complexity of the science of health care. During the past half-century, there has been an explosion of biomedical and clinical knowledge, with even more dazzling clinical capabilities just over the horizon,” the report says. But the current system doesn’t help providers learn this material and it doesn’t give them any incentive to apply it.

“Second is the ever-escalating cost of care, which is widely acknowledged to be wasteful and unsustainable. Unless ways are found to provide more efficient, lower-cost health care, more and more Americans will lose coverage of and access to care.”

Conway praises the Massachusetts health care system, which he says is organized with the patient in mind. The report also says government initiatives, such as the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (PCORI) and the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services Innovation Center are good ways to test and apply proven treatments and methods for paying for health care.

“Until we organize the health care system around the people we are privileged to serve, we aren’t going to figure it out,” Conway said. “I don’t think we have done that before -- we haven’t organized it around the person with cancer. That would be a remarkable change.”

Some ways to get there? Let people see what various treatments cost up front. Employers, who cover the health care costs of 55 percent of Americans, can help, too, the report says. They can use their buying power to demand high-quality, high-value health care, and get their employees involved in wellness programs.

For example what does putting a cast on a broken leg cost?

then the most qualified will end up with the longest waiting lists.

"Many people object to "universal healthcare" because they don't want to pay for other people's healthcare.

in addition to Locker's comment, damn few people know that part of your healthcare monthly premium is paid by your insurer directly to the emergency rooms to help pay for those unpaid bills left by those who show up without health insurance

BTW, where does Medicare/Medicaid get all of that subsidy money?

BTW, where does Medicare/Medicaid get all of that subsidy money?

Not quite... But hospitals get huge subsidy checks (millions of dollars) from Medicare/Medicaid at the end of the year, based on the number of indigent and Medicare/Medicaid patients that they see over the course of the year. And those subsidies are not only for uncompensated emergency care, but for uncompensated outpatient and inpatient care as well.

Rhetorical question for those who don't think that they're already paying for anyone else's healthcare.

Someone explain this to me. If you don't have an insurance provider, do they bill you the full amount, (62 grand)for the hospital?

The Canadian Medical Association (CMA) says Canada's health care system is failing to meet the needs of Canadians and is in urgent need of reform.

According to a report titled "Health Care Transformation in Canada: Change that Works, Care that Lasts" that was just released by the CMA, Canada's health care is in serious trouble.
The report states that Canadians are not receiving the value they deserve from the health care system, ranking last in 30 countries surveyed in terms of value for money spent.
The Canadian Medical Association says Canadians are "increasingly concerned about the lack of timely access to see their family physician,the long wait times for diagnostic testing, a widespread lack of access to specialists and specialized treatment and the compromised quality of care in overburdened emergency rooms."
The report states that the biggest factor in long wait times for health care is the lack of physicians as Canada's physician supply relative to the population is far below average.
Since Canadian teaching institutions do not produce enough physicians to meet demands, Canada cannot expect to make up the difference without new sources of physicians.
Lack of access to prescription drugs is also an area of concern.
Prescription drugs represent the second largest category in health care expenditures but only 50 percent of drug treatments costs are covered by health care. According to the CMA, the situation is "catastrophic."

Medicare has enjoyed the resounding support of Canadians for nearly half a century. But new times
bring new challenges to the health care system and so it has been forced from time to time to adapt
and evolve. This document is predicated on the belief of the CMA that new demands for adaptation
must be addressed starting now, and in a manner consistent with the spirit and principles that have
guided Medicare from the beginning.

Canadians
wait too long for care. Care providers feel overworked and discouraged. There are insufficient
mechanisms to monitor system performance. Technical support needs modernizing.

Who wrote the Affordable Care Act? Obama? Lobbyists? I believe it was written by lobbyists, and I doubt they were lobbying for a universal single-payer system. Suspicious? I am.

Old enough to know if you want something important done right, keep government out of it.

I've shown that a dollar dedicated to healthcare will do more good in the hands of a private charitable organization than that same dollar would if spent by the government - by a factor of two or three, at least

Lennox,

I've shown that a dollar dedicated to healthcare will do more good in the hands of a private charitable organization than that same dollar would if spent by the government - by a factor of two or three, at least.

Do you think people pay taxes because they think it goes to a good cause? Or do people pay up because they fear what will happen if they don't?

Americans think we Canadians just roll over and accept whatever tender mercies from our state concerning monies paid.

I've shown that a dollar dedicated to healthcare will do more good in the hands of a private charitable organization than that same dollar would if spent by the government - by a factor of two or three, at least.

I don't know yet, but can you NOT be in medicare if you're over 65?

But industry is only better at providing service when profit is the objective. Health care is a different type of industry unless you believe profit to be its over riding priority.

So drop the anit-gov. ideology and discuss how to best to deliver health care. That is the topic.

how to best to deliver health care.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

So drop the anit-gov. ideology and discuss how to best to deliver health care. That is the topic.

Unfortunately, dissing the government's ability to deliver healthcare is cogent
to the issue. Government does very little efficiently except collect taxes.
How else to explain the billions it/we are being bilked out of through fraudulent
Medicare payments? If private industry were in charge you can bet your
bippy they wouldn't be letting those billions fly out the window.

I think an MRI in Japan is something like $90

I've been critical of universal healthcare in the past. But this level of overcharging is obscene. The bill shows an "adjustment" of $26,900, cutting the balance due by 50%, as if that's reasonable. Even though this is the first bill for this expense, it's due (or past due) in two weeks. It's all so wrong!

There is, thus, plenty of evidence that not only does universal healthcare powerfully enhance the health of people, its rewards go well beyond health. There is, indeed, a strong relationship between health and economic performance, and we have every reason to base public policy on a proper understanding of the nature and reach of what is clearly a positive interdependence. There is no mystery in all this given the centrality of health for better lives and for enhancing human capabilities.

In January, I had outpatient back surgery. I was at the hospital for about 6 hours. Time in the OR - less than 90 minutes. Yesterday, I received a bill from the hospital. I've already gotten separate bills from the neurosurgeon, anesthesiologist, etc. This was for just the hospital providing a facility and some basic care.

The bill is for $53,900.00!!!

Sounds cheap to me. My surgery of comparable length was over $100,000. The 15 minute helicopter ride was ~$15,000 just by itself.

I didn't intend for this to be a competition. Just wanted to pass along an example of healthcare industry extremism.

and doctors are protesting for higher wages and better working conditions

what you can get rid of, if you enact Medicare

Jody:
Canadian teaching institutions do not produce enough physicians to meet demands …

Ken M:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/07/hundreds-of-canadian-doctors-demand-lower-salaries/

Norton:
single payer Medicare has overhead costs of about 2%,
private plans keep as much as 50% to pay out in profits

Ken M:
most Canadians who are immensely proud of their health care system.

~kief~:
>>>>health care in the US has become a world wide laughing stock.
remember michael moores sicko?

Reilly:
Plus, pardon the thread drift, we both know the absurdity of the coding system.

Reilly:
Somebody said something in praise of the VA. I thank my stars I've not seen
the inside of one since the 70's, period. Not a pretty sight. They've got
to be better these days as they couldn't be worse.

Moosedrool:
But, I agree that the high cost of medical insurance is mostly caused by overpriced health services and medications.

On a healthcare forum I started reading a few years ago:
 typical American concern is about unneeded tests and procedures,
 typical Canadian concern is about waiting time and ability to get access to some new expensive procedures, that were not either approved or fully rolled out in Canada.

I don't pretend to know what the best system might be,

The greater interests of society are not served in any capacity when so many people are unable to afford the care that they need, and when insurance companies serve as a profit-driven middle man to which our congressional leaders (of both parties) are beholden to serving.

Outlaw lobbyists in your government as the first step. Until the billionaire parasites have no say, the rest of you have no chance.

Then they do the work to assemble the best and brightest to come up with ideas and the courage to implement them.

3. Gov't health savings account which you can use for retirement if you keep yourself healthy and out of accidents, or supplement if you are addicted to twinkies and a sedentary lifestyle.

1. Everyone has access to unlimited care and taxes increase proportional to cost? (Socialism?)

4. Government mandated participation with middle-men for profit corporations who then pay hospitals (ObamaCare)

Without resorting to Trump bashing, can someone explain what the Republicans are saying the benefits are with Obamacare repealed?

Why not be a little patient and see what the Republicans have to offer?

Can't be any worse than what we have been saddled with to date.

Health care is broken. It was broken before ACA, it is broken after ACA, it will be broken if ACA is repealed. Healthcare will always be broken as long as Health Insurance runs the game.

Christ Almighty, Pre Existing?? What is that? .000000004%

If the ACA, also known as Obamacare, is repealed, a total of 102 million individuals—not to mention their immediate families—could face higher health insurance premiums and significant out-of-pocket costs related to their medical care, according to a new study from national health care research and consulting firm Avalere.

The God-given right of poor Americans to die in the gutter.

The fattest and the fittest people I know equally suffer from debilitating health issues as time goes on.

Christ Almighty, Pre Existing?? What is that? .000000004%

What I find interesting on this debate [about American healthcare] is that every American citizen who is opposed to universal healthcare knows dozens of Canadians who had to travel out of country for a procedure that had a 6-month waiting period.

As a Canadian, I know of none.