Jebus H Bomz
climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
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Roxy must be kicking himself. This was his moment and he's not here to enjoy it. The greatest disappointment of his life.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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Z brown,, ive been involved in mammals birds and fish since i could walk. Its been my business for decades. Ive had biologist friends in state and fed services for ever. Ive volunteered countless hours of time in habitat restorations and transplants. Built guzzlers and helped in counts of wildlife. Im certainly not an expert of Wolves biology but i am in the circle of those that do know quite well. They do run wildlife FOR FUN or habit- only the WOLF knows for sure. The results however are still the same.
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The user formerly known as stzzo
climber
Sneaking up behind you
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Your're totally incorrect about hunters. Some 80% of the hunters I've known are strictly after the meat.
He said "sport hunters". Appears that there are hunters who are just in it for the trophy.
Looked around on the web, and appears that the popular biologist perspective is that wolves don't kill for sport, but that they do sometimes surplus kill.
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Dingus Milktoast
Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
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Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that wolves kill elk and limit the size of herds???????
OMG!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Now that is some important news.
Lol.
DMT
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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"surplus" you say?? Well if you call surplus killing having one of your hounds yanked out of his kennel ofter being broken into, dragged out and ripped to pieces then left to die, or the horse that stumbled around on three legs after having one chewed off then left as a "surplus" action, then i wold say those "biologists" are the ones making their livings off the wolf re-intros..
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Great article, Fritz!
...tells the quintessence of the blunders and disregard of the wolf introduction without carping or caring what Mrs. Grundy might say...and short enough that forum readers might pore over it.
Brokedownclimber struck a chord about very low income families in the upper Rocky Mountain states. Many depend on deer and elk to help in feeding their families.
...my dad worked at the Freedom Arms factory in Star Valley, WY a few months between coaching jobs. Some of the locals would drive into the Idaho hills from the east and harvest deer and elk for subsistence. The Idaho game wardens seldom came because they had to go the long way around and come in through Wyoming to patrol the area.
...a similar situation on the Idaho side of the Tetons...low income people from Driggs and Victor go into the lightly patroled foothills in Wyoming to get deer.
Breaking the law is wrong...but locals will look the other way and wardens will refrain from citing individuals they know are hurting to provide for their families.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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@brokedownclimber:
I would make a distinction between sport and food hunters.
It's always nice to say where you come up with numbers like 80% so that folks can know from whence you're deriving your conclusions. For example, how many hunters have you surveyed.
My conclusion is based purely on anecdotal evidence that I read or heard. It could be wrong, as could yours.
@Ron Anderson
"They do run wildlife FOR FUN or habit- only the WOLF knows for sure."
Not sure what you're gettin at here. Many predators run down their prey. I objected to you or anyone claiming they know the "motivations" of an animal like a wolf. I guess you agree with me.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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You see,, SOME will call those hunters whom shoot a nice trophy sized deer (one that has aged , prospered his genes etc) and not only eat it but wish to preserve the beauty of the specimen by having it mounted "trophy hunters" .
News flash, just because one shoots a trophy sized animal and wishes to utilize EVERYTHING from it doesnt make one a "trophy hunter"..
FYI, about trophy hunters, they happen to contribute to economies FAR more than any animal rights group ever thought about. How many MILLIONS does the Safari club International bring to the towns they have conventions in?? How much have trophy hunters given to help prosper game species?? BILLIONS... these are the same guys that saved the scimitar oryx from total extinction just recently.
ZB,, I watch my dog run rabbits and such and her look tells me she is having great fun in doing so. I know my dog as well as anything. The wolves have that same look as the chase down a moose. So YES im guessing at the FUN factor, but a canine is a canine in basics. Sally-O says im right lol!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Re: "Trophy Hunters."
As Ron said, there are those who collect the racks as well as eating the animal. Why, you might ask? In my case it's strictly a "memorabilia" thing, and a way for a old fart to remember some happy, but bygone days.
Much of hunting involves the cameraderie with several close friends who share similar views and interests. As a climber, do you hang out with bowlers or golfers? Skydivers tend to hang out at the airports with other jumpers, or sometimes the pilots of the jump plane.
I can understand the sentiments of the "wolf lovers," but I can deride them for their unrealistic fantasies about the "BENIGN" nature of these PREDATORS.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Hunting guiding is a big part of some areas economies. Food production is hardly the goal. Paying a guide service and renting of the hunting lodge to help you get food is pretty costly. They are out there for the experience.
It's mega ironic when a cattle rancher tries to portray wolves as viscous killers when they make their livelihood from a killing industry.
Wolves can't operate guns or pop into Micky D's, so I guess that makes them vicious. Man is the top PREDATOR.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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as it always has been /will be.. Science says that.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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You ever watch any of those old movies, where some guy gets "released" into the jungle, mountains, on some island and then the jungle-master, mountain-man, island-jammer hunts him down and kills him?
I never have been able to catch the look on the boss's face to see if he was having fun or not.
Course these movies are all just made up stuff.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Looking at the Idaho Fish and Game website ...if someone buys an elk or deer tag they get a wolf tag also.
I don't hunt.... I wonder when the state will give wolf tags with fishing licenses...
How would "catch-and-release" work with a "cast-and-blast" permit.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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Nevada sells unlimited mtn lion tags each year - percentages of the average hunter not running dogs of finding one that will be still long enough to shoot are rare as finding a large gold nugget. You GLIMPSE them now and then , and then they ghost.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Mountain lions sun themselves on the cabin deck, here, occasionally...
and from time to time there's a peeping tom
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nice peeping Tom cat!
I can deride them for their unrealistic fantasies about the "BENIGN" nature of these PREDATORS Man, I was beginning to think no one would EVER comment on that! Don't take it personally, it's just bait.....
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Wyoming also has unlimited mountain lion tags available; there's a catch, though. A kill must be reported, and the "season" is prone to changing after the "quota" has filled. They're here at my ranch, and I've seen tracks but never an animal.
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crasic
climber
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Paying a guide service and renting of the hunting lodge to help you get food is pretty costly.
And then there are Ted Nugent's "hunting safari's" where the dress the animal up in a tutu for you to make the shot easier. Certainly not for fun AMIRITE!
just to clarify, I have nothing against hunting as I've done it before, I love fishing, and I'm a target archer as well, I just see it for what it is in the first world another recreational activity. Just like climbing/hiking/backpacking. And in the same vein "gun nuts" and "gun collectors" aren't the epitome of american patriotism and reeking of hardman that they think they are, they are hobbyists in the same way that a kid collecting yu-gi-oh cards is.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Nov 14, 2012 - 10:23am PT
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associated press
SPOKANE, Wash. — The state Fish and Wildlife Department spent nearly $77,000 to kill seven wolves in a pack that had been preying on cattle in Stevens County in northeast Washington.Only one wolf was killed in a 39-day ground hunt that cost nearly $55,000. The other six wolves were killed in a four-day period in September using a helicopter and a marksman that cost $22,000.The Spokesman-Review reports ( http://is.gd/1UlKN8) the cost was disclosed in a letter the Department of Fish and Wildlife sent to state Sen. Kevin Ranker of Orcas Island, chairman of the legislative committee overseeing the department.Ranker has criticized the decision to kill the Wedge pack and is planning a legislative hearing next year.
Read more here: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2012/11/14/2170402/killing-ne-washington-wolf-pack.html#storylink=cpy
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