zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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the facts are wolves kill for fun, all day/night long
I thought it was girls that just wanted to have fun, but what do I know?
I wonder (been doing that alot), when these fun-loving wolves sleep?
Still wonder why I can see that there are 1,810,132 posts, but can't find out how many threads/topics there are.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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You can bet those federal agents where working in the interests of the ranchers and the fears of the locals.
The characteristics of any restored local population will eventually match it's environment. That's the way nature works. To complain that dna restoration isn't perfect is silly. The environment is not the same as it was either.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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Quite correct Mono, the fear of ranchers, farmers , cattle and horse folks , poultry and pig farmers alike- that WAS the population back then. Indians hunted wolves. Everyone back then shot one on sight normally. Now that its more crowded than then, you cant expect to re-intro natural numbers into un- natural space and not expect un- natural results. Especially considering the over populations of other A type predators like mtn lions in states like Cali-protected there- which actually push more into Nevada theses days.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Original wolf distribution. The "Mackenzie" wolf (c.i. occidentals) did extend into the U.S.
The environment is so different now, who can say what should be natural today. Let nature sort it out.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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I seriously doubt that hunting delisted wolves will have much of an impact on the population numbers. The fukkers are SNEAKY and are seldom seen in the open. There could be a 25 wolf per hunter limit, and I'd be willing to bet that very few hunters would even see a wolf to shoot, much less manage to bag one. Most of the predator-designated wolves have been shot from helicopters in response to local complaints.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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Mono your missing a key point, CANT let "nature" take its way because it ISNT natural in these modern times of civilization and out of control populations. That time passed about 1825..
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Most of the wolves that were eliminated in the first place were (a) poisoned, and (b) trapped, but very few(c) shot. Most of the damage is done at night, anyway.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I have seen seen five different maps of Gray Wolf subspecies distribution (and posted at least three on ST) They don't agree 100%...but all show the mass preponderance of upper U.S. Rocky Mountains arrayed in theCanis Lupus Nubilus zone.
The environment is so different now, who can say what should be natural today. Let nature sort it out.
Yes, nature will sort it out. Sorting it by reducing some elk populations in central ID by 85% since occidentalis was introduced...I mean "restored"...and sorting by completely decimating the moose population in Targhee Creek, near my cabin..
I'm afraid human nature is going to be be a major factor in the sorting,now. Not that I welcome hearing guns ...
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Dispatching wolves with a bow video game! What kind of people write this stuff?
You're on patrol around a village zeroing man eating wolves.
When your arrows are gone @ 1:50 its close quarters
with a knife...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3j94v7IXbU
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Overall elk population in Idaho is down from 125,000 to 103,000 since 1997 for lots of reasons, including wolves, bears, cougars. I'm sure some areas are hurt more than others. The elk will adapt.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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And the elk are adapting well in game management zones with high wolf counts.
In Zone 10 the number of cows has declined from 7,692 in 1989 to 824 in 2010, or 89 percent. In Zone 12 the number of cows has declined from 3,059 in 1986 to 534 in 2010, or 83 percent.
In Zone 10 the number of calves has declined from 2,298 in 1989 to 144 in 2010, or 94 percent. In Zone 12 the number of calves has declined from 856 in 1985 to 38 in 2010, or 96 percent
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Speaking of Elk populations, they truly need wolves in Estes park! That place is a disaster!
So, to rephrase the question I asked up thread, why are certain topics qaraunteed, hot button topics? You can troll more responses than you can deal with by mentioning, religion, republicans, Democrats, any current politician, guns, trad climbing, rap bolting, veganism etc, in a thread title. We are used to that.
But why do some topics, like wolves, that have almost nothing to do with 90% of the population make that list?
Wolves basicly affect almost no one. But everyone feels the need to have an opinion. Yeah they piss off people trying to raise sheep and cows in appropriate locations. Big deal! They do not do the damage to human populations that mtn lions, dogs, or anything with rabies does, yet they garner an inordinate emotional response. Why is that?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Relevant question...perhaps they represent the Nietzschean "ubermench" ideal, the united horde of the free and aggressive who follow their own instincts....
Enter any gathering of machismo driven men and ask which animal they identify with boldness, courage and primacy...and the answers, howls (or tattoos) will answer WOLVES.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jaybro...To answer your question..Maybe environmentalism is the line in the sand and having more wolves is a step in the right direction but on the other hand if they are impacting ranchers livestock and having an adverse effect on other wildlife...?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Wolves are a helluva lot nicer than humans......
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2012 - 07:26am PT
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Wolves do seem to strike an emotional chord in humans: love in some & hate in others.
Strange critters, humans!
I seriously doubt that hunting delisted wolves will have much of an impact on the future wolf population numbers.
I do remember reading an interview with an Alaskan biologist who said that the first Idaho wolf hunting season would have a far higher kill rate than any subsequent hunting seasons.
Smart critter plus big litters plus lots of empty spaces equals a population that is self-maintaining.
From now on in Idaho: it is just wildlife management for wolves, not a state managed eradication program.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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you guys from idaho, montana and wyoming should really listen to the cali folks. maybe you should change your state flag to a wolf and make it extinct like the golden bear on the cali flag...
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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Wolves nicer than humans?? Hmmm,,, a wolf equivalent in humans would be that theater shooter. They both Kill for fun.
I dont entirely disagree with bringing back the wolf to an extent. As long as depredation laws extend to them as well.
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