U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service delists Wyoming wolves.

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Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 2, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
Slow Sunday on ST & time to have fun with the haters!



September 01, 2012 11:00 am • By CHRISTINE PETERSON Casper Star-Tribune staff writer

Wolves will once again leave the endangered species list in Wyoming.
http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/feds-delist-wyoming-wolves-hunting-season-begins-oct-groups-promise/article_3cc78470-a44f-5109-80ef-5ad4188f52c7.html?print=true&cid=print

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced Friday that it would delist wolves in Wyoming and approve the state’s management and hunting plans.

Under the ruling, wolves will be hunted and managed in a trophy game area in the northwest corner of the state outside of Yellowstone National Park, Grand Teton National Park, the John D. Rockefeller Memorial Parkway, the National Elk Refuge and the Wind River Indian Reservation. They can be shot on sight in the rest of the state.

The ruling will be official Sept. 30, said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe.

Hunting season is scheduled to begin Oct. 1.

Wyoming has worked for nearly a decade to delist wolves in the state. Wolves were delisted for about three months in 2008 before a federal judge placed them back on Endangered Species Act protection because of concerns over genetic diversity


Wyoming is the last state in the Northern Rocky Mountains to have wolves removed from the endangered species list.

The state is divided into three areas:

A trophy game area in northwest Wyoming in which wolves will be regulated by hunting.

A small, seasonal-game area in northern Lincoln and Sublette counties in which hunters need licenses for part of the year and can shoot them on sight as predators the other part. Called the “flex zone” it gives more protection to wolves for a portion of the year as they move between Wyoming and Idaho.

In the rest of the state, wolves will be considered predators, meaning they can be shot on sight. The plan allows 52 of the state’s estimated 220 to 230 wolves to be killed this fall in northwest Wyoming outside of Yellowstone, Grand Teton National Park, the John D. Rockefeller Memorial Parkway, the National Elk Refuge and the Wind River Reservation.


The Wyoming Legislature set aside $600,000 of general fund money to manage wolves for two years, Nesvik said.

The money will pay for costs including flights to put radio collars on wolves and monitor their distribution. It will also cover manpower needed to check each wolf killed during hunting season for a genetic sample.

No additional staff will be hired to help manage wolves. Game and Fish recently restructured its large carnivore section, combining research specialists and conflict management into one group.

It also has a full-time wolf biologist already in its budget. Managing wolves will mean more responsibility, but the group should be able to accomplish delisting goals, Nesvik said.

Wolf tags will be sold over the counter, similar to black bear and mountain lion tags. Hunters will be required to call a hotline to check on the quota for each area before hunting and report a kill within 24 hours. The areas will close when the quota is reached.

Resident licenses will be $18 and nonresident tags $180.


And in Idaho!!

From Idaho’s more liberal daily paper: The Lewiston Morning Tribune.


Wolf season is always open in Idaho
Eric Barker | Posted: Monday, July 2, 2012 5:18 pm

In a move that is sure to please many hunters and anger wolf advocates, Idaho approved new wolf hunting regulations that allow the canine predators to be hunted 365 days a year.

It is not a wide open, general hunt. But if one travels around the state, there will always be a place to pursue Canis lupus.

Idaho had allowed 10 months of wolf hunting during the 2011-2012 season, with the hunt open from Aug. 1 to March 31 in most of the state and Aug. 1 to June 30 in the Lolo and Selway zones.

That means the 2011-2012 wolf hunting season came to a close at sunset on Saturday. But under the new regulations, the 2012-2013 season opened Sunday morning.

Here's a rundown: Wolf hunting opens in the Panhandle Zone, on private land only, July 1. The rest of the zone and the rest of the state will open to wolf hunting on Aug. 1 and all but the Lolo and Selway zones will close on March 31. The Lolo and Selway zones will again be open through June.

Hunters can take up to 5 wolves per calandar year but most zones have a cap of 2 wolves per hunter, per year. The Middle Fork Zone, Dworshak-Elk City, Palouse-Hells Canyon, Lolo, Selway and Panhandle zones allow hunters to kill 5 wolves per calendar year.

So it is possible to hunt wolves year-round by starting on private land in the Panhandle Zone in July and then hunting anywhere in the state starting Aug. 1, moving to the Lolo and Selway zones on April 1 and back to the Panhandle on July 1.

Of course, if a hypothetical hunter were to does this, he or she would also have to balance when and where the wolves were taken to stay within the 5-per-calander-year bag limit and the more restricted bag limits in zones mostly south of the Salmon River.

In the hunting season that started last August and ended Saturday, Idaho hunters took 255 wolves. Trappers killed another 124 wolves in the season that opened Nov. 15 and ran through March.

That is a total of 379 wolves out of an estimated minimum population of between 700 and 1,000. However, Idaho Fish and Game officials believe the population exceeds 1,000 animals.




On the bright-side! Idaho Fish & Game is making money selling wolf hunting licenses that replaces money lost when out of state hunters no-longer purchased deer & elk permits for our wolf-depleted big-game herds.


It's game management dudes! Get over the: "I love the wild doggie-woggie" blues.


The wolves are coming for you!
The wolves are coming for you!
Credit: Fritz


donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 2, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
Delist Wyoming Republicans: more plentful, easier to hunt, tastier due to much higher fat content and DEFINETLY more in need of culling.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 2, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
It would put more spring in their step, by keeping them on their toes! I still can't imagine wyo rep despots would be good eating' though...

No wonder Wyoming had to be 'let go' from the union

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/fri-august-31-2012/rnc-2012---the-road-to-jeb-bush-2016---the-best-f--king-news-team-ever-audits-america
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 2, 2012 - 10:30pm PT
Bleeding heart liberals are easier to track, though.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Sep 2, 2012 - 10:41pm PT
That tree has been barked up before.
It's played out.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2012 - 10:49pm PT
Donini!

If we could only delist them as per your comment!



Delist Wyoming Republicans: more plentful, easier to hunt, tastier due to much higher fat content and DEFINETLY more in need of culling.





The survivors would be vastly improved by the delisting!
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:30am PT
Talk about a stupid and wasteful use of resouces! Spend millions of tax dollars to re-establish wolves against the wishes of the locals, pushed to do so by people from out of the area who will never have to live with them, waste millions more in court fights, then spend yet more to eliminate most of them. Meanwhile lots of livestock, game, and now wolves paid with their lives. Way to go America! No wonder our economy is in trouble.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:34am PT
Jan,

Just think of it like the open season that has gone on for 25 years against the Humanities in education.

Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:45am PT
Good analogy Jim!

And perhaps the one good thing to come out of this will be that the wolves will regain their fear of people and retreat to true wilderness areas and minimize their contact with us.

Still, I don't think historians will look kindly on a society that allowed 40% of its poor people to be children while it saved the wolves.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2012 - 12:54am PT
Jan!

Yes!

I appreciate your input on the subject!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 3, 2012 - 01:00am PT
Humans are capable of but not necessarily willing to save themselves.

A bunch of animals (wolves) have no concept of commercial value regarding food that's been conveniently penned up and fed to be delicious...
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 3, 2012 - 01:27am PT
Does this mean Rokjox will be unbanned?
Jody

climber
35/53k
Sep 3, 2012 - 01:36am PT
I just drove through Yellowstone and Grand Teton a few weeks ago with a friend who lives in Livingston. Saw NO wildlife except for bison. No elk, no moose, only a couple of dear. He said it was because of the wolves that were brought into the area. They are killing everything else off.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Sep 3, 2012 - 05:58am PT
I was browsing in a library video collection yesterday and came across a video titled "Yellowstone, land of the Coyotes" and thought sadly to myself, "not anymore, they too have been decimated by the wolves".
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Sep 3, 2012 - 06:17am PT
Hey Jim, I am not a Republican, so I am safe in that sense, but Piton Ron scares, me, as I am a liberal. Will he be coming after me? Will he be able to pack his rifle/pistol on a flight to Ireland? Will Piton Ron be able to buy a gun on the market here to hunt me, a liberal? Or will he just be content gunning down liberals in the States?

Hey Ron, just trying to bring some light-heartedness to the conversation.

Clearly, the balance of nature has been upset. But by whom? The wolves? Humans? The government? Too many fat cattle?

I do not know the answer.

All I know is that I do not want a cougar staring in my window (as was posted - a photo - several years ago by a Taco Stander). Or a pack of wolves chasing me. Yet, we do have to give these creatures some space.

Do human beings have a monopoly on the earth?

Imagine, year 2200 or thereabouts, only humans and insects (and bacteria and viruses). The humans will lose.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 11:18am PT
consider the fact that folks in wolf country HAVE BEEN SHOOTING them most any chances they get,( under the shoot, shovel and shut up clause) and yet they are still being taken off the listings.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 11:30am PT
Ron...If this keeps up , sledz will get de-listed....watch it...!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 11:34am PT
no doubt eh! When SLEDZ get de-listed,,we are DOOMED!
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 11:37am PT
Lets not have wildlife rules till the children are saved.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 3, 2012 - 11:41am PT
Roxjox is having a party!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 11:45am PT
i truly WISH the wolves like Nevada country more.. We have TONS of horses to feed them..
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Sep 3, 2012 - 11:56am PT
I like the idea of letting nature take its course. I grew up in the country in a popular deer hunting area. Witnessed salt licks and tree stands that made it pretty easy to bag a set of antlers. I never have hunted in my life but I have had good venison jerky. One of my buddies once shot a elk (his rack was as big as the front of an SUV) they packed 200 lbs of meat out of a 1200 lb animal home (what a waste). I feel like if you hunt you get all of the animal home with you and as part of getting to use our natural resources (for your hunting pleasure) a donation to a soup kitchen or food pantry should be mandatory along with utilizing every thing possible of the animal.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
Ron...Have you heard about the Mickey D's new Mustang-Cheesburger...?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
a society that allowed 40% of its poor people to be children

That's an interesting statement right there!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
RJ,, i thought that "burger" i had there the other day was a bit chewy!


Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
Why is it that reactionaries have such a problem with benign ( yeah I know we're all public trough ranchers) predators like wolves, and yet mountain lions, which actually do, cause problems for people, like eating them -something wolves don't do- get a pretty much free pass? Ie problem animals are dealt with on a case by case basis, but you don't hear calls for eradication. There are no problem wolves, (again except for private commercial special interests) so no case by case dealings, and yet the hysteria is rampant.

Is it just that Big cats don't threaten their manhood on a psychological level?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
JAYBRO,, wolves do indeed eat people. BUt even worse, unlike mtn lions, they kill out of habit and "fun". They run deer, elk, and many other mammals relentlessly- and either catch them or chase them from the area. Wolves unlike mtn lions herd up thus increasing the size of animals they chase. Its much like GANGS,, find one alone- they aren't much trouble,, but find them in the PACK and yur in deep shyte.. It is VERY rare for a cat to attack a LARGE dog in his own yard, yet wolves will think nothing of it. I offer a freind of mine as eveidence as one of his hounds was dragged out of a kennel by a pack of wolves.

the result pictured below.

Credit: Ron Anderson

after a few grand the dog made a marvelous recovery! And if I were Phil,, id be exacting revenge and collect 3000.00 worth of wolf pelt.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:31pm PT
There a lot of wolves out there in mound house Ron? Hadn't heard that. Good to get that first hand info.

Thanks for playing along
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
not from moundhouse Jaybro, Phil lives in Montana.. All i have to worry bout here is bobcat, mtn lion, bears,coyotes and grey fox. ( actually they help me by getting rid of animal parts not used lol)

Just let wolves get a hold in the great basin,, and youll here those horse people scream from here to washington lol! It would be a brilliant plan imo. Let the wolves take care of the horse pops, then we handle the wolf pops.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 12:43pm PT
put into climber terms,, letting wolves loose in your hood would be akin to letting loose NOOB bolters on yur favorite crag with NO RULES established other that they can do what they please. YIKES!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 02:00pm PT
Ron...Wolves are like gangs...? I see where you are going with this analogy...Here comes the racial profiling again...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
BBAHAHAHAA! Why Yes RJ,, now that you mention it i do see cross references!

Handling the two problems should be INDENTICAL too!;-)
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 3, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
A wolf lying in a pool of blood is very heart rending. Sad it came to to this... half of the transplanted wolf population in Idaho slain by hunting and trapping as well as illegal killing in the last year.

And perhaps more newspaper or magazine headlines heralding THE RETURN OF THE GRAY WOLF will impel more wolf tag sales!

...while they slyly omit the fact that 99% of the wolves in the world are Gray Wolves...and passing over the specific that there is no evidence of the transplanted Occidentalis subspecies having occupied the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, ever.

The metro-press will continue putting a gloss on the experiment and cloaking the local quandry in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming.

The wrong wolf in the right niche is what results with government money, mecenary biologists and as as Rox expressed it... eco-ninnies bearing down on bureaucrats and judges rule.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
this was settled long ago by smart people who saw the need to push these populations far to the north ( Canada) . That was long ago, and things were really quite fine. Wolves all over Canada, the N territories, Alaska. They simply got PUSHED out of areas being settled. Phase forward 150 years and we have WAY more "settlements way more people and way more issues with the available public lands. So now was just a dandy time to re-introduce a species in even less lands to freely roam than ever before, and not expect it to be a complete quagmire.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 3, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
More wolves...fewer ranchers. The demographics favor wolves, cattle ranching is a dying industry in most of the West just as sheep ranching is in Patagonia. Wolves are repopulating their ancestral home- who is the immigrant group in this case? Ranching has been around for less than 150 years, when did the first wolves appear on the scene?
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Sep 3, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
oh the lies these wolf 'hunters' tell. The lowest form of human soul, and those lacking empathy, understanding and survival can be found in trappers and hunters of wolves.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 03:02pm PT
Thats all nice to say JD,, but the facts are wolves kill for fun, all day/night long. Can you see yosemite getting a nice pop of wolves?

we arent talking just rancher concerns here. ALL other wildlife already pushed into ever decreasing habitat will be the victims of an animal that kills for fun night and day. Now , if your saying we should all just move down into uninhabited areas,, death valley is gonna get hella crowded. Youll have to move out of Colo due to encroaching on deer, elk, and bear habitats.

the wolves thrive and enjoy their northern haunts now. Why mess with a working system? Ive personally seen coyotes attack dogs here and my friends have experienced the wolf handy work first hand. They have lost horses dogs and cats, chickens ,hogs, and cows sheep and goats. WE have lost elk, sheep, antelope, deer, small bears, rabbits, coons, foxs, minks and martens etc etc.
Ill bet Rattlers used to inhabit where or near your house is, yet your not going to import thirty or so to "re-introduce" the species are ya?

Credit: Ron Anderson

my "wolf work" ^^^standing wolf was just under six feet.

monolith

climber
albany,ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
Yes, those vicious canadian wolves couldn't possibly wander into Idaho or viceversa. They don't have passports. Let's test the dna of ranchers and see how they match the first human inhabitants. The dna classification of wolves has gone from 24 down to just 5 now in north america because there was so much interbreeding.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 03:26pm PT
Indeed they do occasionally Mono, but the SSS clause usually took care of the problem with out so much as a local headline. Even then there have been small populations in N ID and Mont both for quite some time. So you intro wolves with 100 percent fed protection, and eventually have to stifle all hunting as the game will be disappearing at an alarming rate. Game which has been brought back to healthy populations through hunters efforts over decades. So the wolves get their rightful lands back and the game starts vanishing. So the ranchers have to quit,,, the hunters have to quit,, erasing entire industries, and ways of life that are as old as the wolf itself-ie HUNTING. Meanwhile, wolves become the aplha predator of all the woods, around crags, in parks -pretty much wherever they please. Good by Fido, see ya lil kitty-poo. Hope you dont have horses or lamas, or "pakas"..


fact is wolves have to be controlled just like all other populations these days. We talk about it all the time in HUMAN stand points (while encouraging illegal populations to come here and breed like rabbits-odd irony there) so we must talk about it with an alpha predator of the wilds. Let there be the occasional wolf or two.. Not packs of twenty. cant buy that..
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 3, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
Ranchers didn't eliminate the wolves from Yellowstone or Idaho. They were extirpated by federal marshalls in the early twentieth century with an active shooting and poisoning campaign. A small population of the native subspecies was said to exist in Idaho wilderness areas...and slowly making a comeback before the introduction of the Mackenzie Valley subspecies.

The Gray Wolf subspecies classifications were not based on DNA profiling..
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 3, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
the facts are wolves kill for fun, all day/night long

I thought it was girls that just wanted to have fun, but what do I know?

I wonder (been doing that alot), when these fun-loving wolves sleep?

Still wonder why I can see that there are 1,810,132 posts, but can't find out how many threads/topics there are.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
You can bet those federal agents where working in the interests of the ranchers and the fears of the locals.

The characteristics of any restored local population will eventually match it's environment. That's the way nature works. To complain that dna restoration isn't perfect is silly. The environment is not the same as it was either.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 04:22pm PT
Quite correct Mono, the fear of ranchers, farmers , cattle and horse folks , poultry and pig farmers alike- that WAS the population back then. Indians hunted wolves. Everyone back then shot one on sight normally. Now that its more crowded than then, you cant expect to re-intro natural numbers into un- natural space and not expect un- natural results. Especially considering the over populations of other A type predators like mtn lions in states like Cali-protected there- which actually push more into Nevada theses days.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 3, 2012 - 05:11pm PT
Shot on site? probably preferable to being lynched.

In between killings they howl.



monolith

climber
albany,ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
Original wolf distribution. The "Mackenzie" wolf (c.i. occidentals) did extend into the U.S.

The environment is so different now, who can say what should be natural today. Let nature sort it out.


Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 3, 2012 - 06:22pm PT
I seriously doubt that hunting delisted wolves will have much of an impact on the population numbers. The fukkers are SNEAKY and are seldom seen in the open. There could be a 25 wolf per hunter limit, and I'd be willing to bet that very few hunters would even see a wolf to shoot, much less manage to bag one. Most of the predator-designated wolves have been shot from helicopters in response to local complaints.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 3, 2012 - 06:25pm PT
Mono your missing a key point, CANT let "nature" take its way because it ISNT natural in these modern times of civilization and out of control populations. That time passed about 1825..
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 3, 2012 - 06:48pm PT
Most of the wolves that were eliminated in the first place were (a) poisoned, and (b) trapped, but very few(c) shot. Most of the damage is done at night, anyway.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 3, 2012 - 06:54pm PT
I have seen seen five different maps of Gray Wolf subspecies distribution (and posted at least three on ST) They don't agree 100%...but all show the mass preponderance of upper U.S. Rocky Mountains arrayed in theCanis Lupus Nubilus zone.

The environment is so different now, who can say what should be natural today. Let nature sort it out.


Yes, nature will sort it out. Sorting it by reducing some elk populations in central ID by 85% since occidentalis was introduced...I mean "restored"...and sorting by completely decimating the moose population in Targhee Creek, near my cabin..

I'm afraid human nature is going to be be a major factor in the sorting,now. Not that I welcome hearing guns ...
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
Sep 3, 2012 - 07:04pm PT
Dispatching wolves with a bow video game! What kind of people write this stuff?

You're on patrol around a village zeroing man eating wolves.
When your arrows are gone @ 1:50 its close quarters
with a knife...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3j94v7IXbU


monolith

climber
albany,ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
Overall elk population in Idaho is down from 125,000 to 103,000 since 1997 for lots of reasons, including wolves, bears, cougars. I'm sure some areas are hurt more than others. The elk will adapt.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 3, 2012 - 07:26pm PT
And the elk are adapting well in game management zones with high wolf counts.

In Zone 10 the number of cows has declined from 7,692 in 1989 to 824 in 2010, or 89 percent. In Zone 12 the number of cows has declined from 3,059 in 1986 to 534 in 2010, or 83 percent.

In Zone 10 the number of calves has declined from 2,298 in 1989 to 144 in 2010, or 94 percent. In Zone 12 the number of calves has declined from 856 in 1985 to 38 in 2010, or 96 percent
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 3, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
Speaking of Elk populations, they truly need wolves in Estes park! That place is a disaster!


So, to rephrase the question I asked up thread, why are certain topics qaraunteed, hot button topics? You can troll more responses than you can deal with by mentioning, religion, republicans, Democrats, any current politician, guns, trad climbing, rap bolting, veganism etc, in a thread title. We are used to that.

But why do some topics, like wolves, that have almost nothing to do with 90% of the population make that list?
Wolves basicly affect almost no one. But everyone feels the need to have an opinion. Yeah they piss off people trying to raise sheep and cows in appropriate locations. Big deal! They do not do the damage to human populations that mtn lions, dogs, or anything with rabies does, yet they garner an inordinate emotional response. Why is that?
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 3, 2012 - 08:39pm PT
Relevant question...perhaps they represent the Nietzschean "ubermench" ideal, the united horde of the free and aggressive who follow their own instincts....

Enter any gathering of machismo driven men and ask which animal they identify with boldness, courage and primacy...and the answers, howls (or tattoos) will answer WOLVES.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 3, 2012 - 08:59pm PT
Jaybro...To answer your question..Maybe environmentalism is the line in the sand and having more wolves is a step in the right direction but on the other hand if they are impacting ranchers livestock and having an adverse effect on other wildlife...?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 3, 2012 - 11:38pm PT
Enter any gathering of machismo driven men and ask which animal they identify with boldness, courage and primacy...and the answers, howls (or tattoos) will answer WOLVES.

Now that's an interesting statement right there.

Probably explains this:



But to give the devil his due. Enter any mixed macho guy-tough dyke gathering and ask for a showing of tatoos:




you don't have to vote, but you can if you have a photo-id



Interestingly, angels, wings, dragons, butterflys, faeries, lions and tigers are all more popular tatoos than wolves. (also gun/pistol and Harley Davidson M/C)



survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 4, 2012 - 09:42am PT
Wolves are a helluva lot nicer than humans......
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2012 - 10:26am PT
Wolves do seem to strike an emotional chord in humans: love in some & hate in others.

Strange critters, humans!

I seriously doubt that hunting delisted wolves will have much of an impact on the future wolf population numbers.

I do remember reading an interview with an Alaskan biologist who said that the first Idaho wolf hunting season would have a far higher kill rate than any subsequent hunting seasons.

Smart critter plus big litters plus lots of empty spaces equals a population that is self-maintaining.

From now on in Idaho: it is just wildlife management for wolves, not a state managed eradication program.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 4, 2012 - 10:45am PT
you guys from idaho, montana and wyoming should really listen to the cali folks. maybe you should change your state flag to a wolf and make it extinct like the golden bear on the cali flag...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 4, 2012 - 10:47am PT
Wolves nicer than humans?? Hmmm,,, a wolf equivalent in humans would be that theater shooter. They both Kill for fun.

I dont entirely disagree with bringing back the wolf to an extent. As long as depredation laws extend to them as well.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 4, 2012 - 10:50am PT
wolves do indeed eat people. BUt even worse, unlike mtn lions, they kill out of habit and "fun". They run deer, elk, and many other mammals relentlessly- and either catch them or chase them from the area

Can we also get rid of all the humans who kill deer, elk, and many other mammals (and non-mammals) for sport?
crasic

climber
Sep 4, 2012 - 10:55am PT
Wolves do seem to strike an emotional chord in humans: love in some & hate in others.

I think that some people identify them with domesticated dogs and other don't.

Wolves nicer than humans?? Hmmm,,, a wolf equivalent in humans would be that theater shooter. They both Kill for fun.

Hunters kill for fun all the time...

little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
Sep 4, 2012 - 11:14am PT
Ron,

you are an artist, very impressive taxidermy.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 4, 2012 - 11:17am PT
Thank you Little Z!


And being a hunter, i dont really kill for fun. I prefer to eat natural meats that have NO additives, hormones, dyes or any other such non-sense. Just good LEAN proteins,, and TASTY at that!
crasic

climber
Sep 4, 2012 - 11:22am PT
And being a hunter, i dont really kill for fun.

You wouldn't be doing it often if you didn't enjoy it. And I'm not saying there is a problem with it, but there is a lot of fun in hunting, most of us derive pleasure from the chase and the shot or we wouldn't do it, we moralize by defering our pleasure from "the kill" onto the other aspects of the hunt, but its all the same.

There is nothing wrong with it, but claiming people don't hunt for fun in these modern times (along with other valid reasons - cheap meat being one of them :D ) is disingenuous.

Fishing is also quite the same, its fun to catch and kill fish. We morally 'cleanse' ourselves by claiming we don't enjoy the actual killing, but in the end, thats just a lie we tell ourselves.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 4, 2012 - 11:59am PT
maybe for you,, but not for me. Ive never enjoyed the kill moment. Its more a deep seated appreciation. Im a hunter by nature just like the rest of humanity. Gatherers, farmers and hunters is what we all are. We have canines which identify us as carnivores, and a taste for green which makes us omnivores.
crasic

climber
Sep 4, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
Im a hunter by nature just like the rest of humanity.

Along with wolves and cats. I don't understand why you think your pleasure from the chase is any different then the wolves. Was the hunt necessary for your immediate survival? Most likely not. That means you, at its essence, hunt for fun and pleasure. Be it the pleasure of being able to provide your own food or the fun of being outdoors, or the instinctual pleasure from tracking and chasing game. Hunting IS fun, and hunting is, at its essence, killing.

Cats play with their prey for fun, we do the same when tracking our game. Any distinction we place on their motives vs ours is just a little lie we say to convince ourselves we are rational empathetic beings.
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Sep 4, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
Wolves nicer than humans?? Hmmm,,, a wolf equivalent in humans would be that theater shooter. They both Kill for fun.

projection and anthropormiphic.

Sucks to be so fearfull. Do you have any valid links to support your claim?

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 4, 2012 - 02:00pm PT
Did you see the pic i posted of my buddies hound? Which was taken out of a kennel the wolves broke into. Im not fearful of wolves but i do know well what they do. And to say they should be protected and let to run their course "naturally" is the SAME stupid argument the TREE folks gave us around Tahoe decades ago.. They too argued to let their stands go "naturally" and they did. Right up to the predicted insect and disease then wild fire. Man has moved into every state, every county every riparian zone. We RELY on our wildlife agencies to MANAGE the wildlife for the lands left open to them, and wolves are no different. There are govt trappers that shoot mtn lions, bobcats, coyotes, ravens and YES wolves. They are paid by your tax dollars in an effort to CONTROL populations. When wolves freely roamed the lands long ago, game was more than plentiful, and people were scarce. Taint like that anymore.

In my own micro climate nearby, i have an area i USED to hunt cotton tail rabbits in as they were plentiful. But for the last decade or so that area has gone down dramatically in rabbits and UP in coyotes, bobcats and mtn lions, but even recently bears have now appeared in the pine nut range.

The rabbits are all but hunted out of there by a host of predators. That range COULDNT sustain a pack of wolves for more than a couple of years at best. When furs became taboo, the fur markets went to heck in a handbasket and trapping was reduced dramatically and populations began to increase dramatically. Our own wildlife state agency here encourages all hunters to obtain a mtn lion tag in an effort to help control them.
crasic

climber
Sep 4, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
too argued to let their stands go "naturally" and they did. Right up to the predicted insect and disease then wild fire

Fighting all forest fires as a matter of policy is not natural at all.


Its also interesting that humans can't be trusted to manage an economy but its perfectly ok to manage nature *rollseyes*.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 4, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
Im a hunter by nature just like the rest of humanity.

Like wolves?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 4, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
yes, only im an ALPHA due to the larger brain (space) and thumbs.


edit: crasic,, game management and hunters/fishermen are responsible for the bringing back of many a species in our country. Elk, wild sheep, deer, predators, waterfowl and upland birds like the turkey, antelope etc. Introductions of very successful exotics like the chukar and the himalayan snowcock made use of lands not inhabited by other birds. The ring neck pheasant is an economic boom to many states! No agencies are perfect, but to just bash upon what is a success in terms of over all management isnt really justified.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 4, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
This Idaho Fish and Game- graphic illustrates the decline in elk numbers in the Lolo Zone where wolf density in Idaho is highest. (The declines in the 19990's were due to hard winters but the agency maintains that the decrease over the last decade was primarily due to predation by the wolves.

The wolf population in this wildlife management zone was estimates to be as high as 100 in 2010.

Wolves were shot from F & G agency helicopters in an attempt to contain the population. That effort is continuing. According to the agency, wolves in the Lolo Zone now number less than 50. (from hunting and F & G helicopter culling)



10b4me

Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
Sep 4, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
I just drove through Yellowstone and Grand Teton a few weeks ago with a friend who lives in Livingston. Saw NO wildlife except for bison. No elk, no moose, only a couple of dear. He said it was because of the wolves that were brought into the area. They are killing everything else off.

that analogy is about the dumbest thing I've read
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 4, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
Elk hunting is "way of life" in Wyoming, and long time natives are pi$$ed about wolves and their population explosion in the "Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem."
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 4, 2012 - 10:05pm PT
Brokendown...I believe you about Elk hunting being a way of Life in Wyoming...In Michigan they close the schools down for opening day of deer season and you don't dare go into the woods without day-glow clothing...
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2012 - 10:11pm PT
Pre-wolf introduction: I did have a U of Idaho wildlife biology Grad student assure me that there were still wolves living in the huge Selway Bitteroot Wilderness.

Wolf introduction was being pushed by U.S. Fish & Wildlife and the biology Grad-student told me that their only acceptable documentation of Idaho wolves would be a dead Idaho wolf.

Bear in mind that a lot of folks at U.S. Fish & Wildlife made their careers and career money on wolf introduction into the Northern Rockies.

**I think a lot of us in the Northern Rockies resent the wolves because the government rammed them down our throats.
How ungrateful of us, little people!**

Here is some more documentation that the wolves introduced were not what once roamed the Rockies.

This article from a pro-wolf site seems fairly informative on size and origin of our current introduced wolves in the Northern Rockies:


http://www.timberwolfinformation.org/?p=12297

OR: ‘Canadian’ wolves – How big and bad are they?
Posted on June 21, 2012 by TWIN Observer
By Pat Valkenburg

To many people in rural areas of the West, bringing wolves back was a bad idea. To perhaps have brought back a possibly larger subspecies that was never here to begin with (the “Canadian” wolf) has added fuel to the controversy.

Pictures of very large wolves taken during the Idaho hunting season have appeared on the Internet, but some people suspect the photos have been digitally enhanced to make the wolves appear larger than they actually are.

So, what is the truth about these “Canadian” wolves? Are they really larger than the original wolf that used to roam the western states, and if so, how much larger are they?

Perhaps more importantly, if the introduced wolf is a larger subspecies, are they more likely to kill livestock and working dogs or to kill more deer and elk than the original subspecies?

Within the last several months, using newly available genetic information in addition to existing morphometric data, research biologists (Steven M. Chambers, Steven R. Fain, Bud Fazio, and Michael Amaral) with the US Fish and Wildlife Service completed an extensive review of wolves in North America – the third comprehensive review since 1944.

These researchers support the view that only three subspecies of wolves should be recognized in western North America and that a single subspecies (Canis lupus nubilus) inhabited all of the western states north of Arizona and New Mexico, and southern Alberta, southern British Columbia and Southeast Alaska.

The original common name for this relatively small wolf was “plains” wolf because it was first encountered by Europeans on the Great Plains. Although it was completely eliminated from the western United States by the late 1920s (except for a handful in the Cascades until the early 1940s), it continued to exist in healthy numbers in southwestern Canada and southeastern Alaska.

A considerably larger northwestern wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis) occupied northern Alberta, British Columbia, Yukon, and the rest of Alaska. This wolf has always been common and its distribution has never been appreciably affected by human activity. The northwestern wolf evolved in northeast Asia and Beringia during the Wisconsin Glaciation, while smaller subspecies of wolves developed south of the ice sheets.

The third subspecies of wolf in western North America, the Mexican wolf (Canis lupus baileyi), is the only subspecies that was ever truly endangered, having died out in the wild in Sonora in the 1970s. It is currently being reintroduced from captive animals into northern Arizona and New Mexico.

Unfortunately, biologists did not have good information on wolf genetics during the early 1990s when the decision was made to reintroduce wolves to Wyoming and Idaho from Alberta and British Columbia.

The concern at the time was that wolves for reintroduction should come from relatively abundant populations that had experience at hunting elk and bison, the two major prey species in Yellowstone National Park that were considered overly abundant.

Although there is a zone in southcentral British Columbia and southern Alberta where the two subspecies mix, the capture sites (Hinton, AB and Fort Saint John, BC) of the wolves transplanted to Wyoming and Idaho were well within the range of the larger, northern subspecies.

The Alaska Department of Fish and Game sent two pilots and two biologists to help with wolf capture and they were impressed by the large size of the wolves and their similarity to Alaskan wolves. The largest males weighed around 140 pounds.

The original wolf of the western states was 20-25% smaller, with large males seldom exceeding 110 pounds and the largest recorded being 125 pounds. The skull size of the northwestern wolf is also about 4-6% larger than that of the plains wolf. The evidence is pretty clear that the subspecies of wolf brought to the western states for reintroduction is not the same wolf that historically lived here.

Will this larger subspecies make a difference? Although it is generally true that larger predators tend to select larger species of prey, there is plenty of evidence that the original wolves made a good living hunting bison and elk and were often a serious problem for livestock as well, including the horses raised by Native Americans (for many examples see “The Wolves of North America” by Stanley P. Young and Edward A. Goldman, published in 1944).

No matter which subspecies of wolf had been reintroduced, managing livestock depredation problems would have required considerable money and effort, just as it did with the smaller plains wolf.

Fortunately for cattle ranchers, wolves seem to prefer elk more than domestic animals. The natural tendency for most wolves to hunt elk, and use of nonlethal conditioning methods combined with lethal removal of wolves that develop a pattern of killing livestock, should keep livestock depredation to a low and economically tolerable level.

However, it will be important for wolf advocates to be willing to compromise with ranchers on the issue of lethal wolf control because the interests of ranchers are critical, not only to successful wolf reintroduction, but to the conservation of habitat for many other species of wildlife as well.

The effects of the new, larger subspecies of wolf (or any subspecies for that matter) on populations of elk, deer, and other wildlife are more of an unknown and will likely be quite variable. All of the original ecosystems of the western states have been greatly modified by fencing, grazing, introduction of new species of plants, and by agriculture. In other words, it’s a whole new ballgame now, not just because of the larger wolf.

The amount of wolf predation on elk and other game species that people are willing to tolerate will be ultimately up to state legislators, governors, game commissioners, and voters. It is likely that wolf control programs, such as those conducted in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming, will be eventually implemented in other states as the range of the wolf continues to expand.

Pat Valkenburg is a certified wildlife biologist who worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game for 28 years on caribou, wolves, bears, and other wildlife. Since first retiring from ADF&G in 2003, he has continued to work on wildlife research projects in Alaska, Ontario, Manitoba, Labrador, and Oregon. He has spent the last two winters in the Enterprise area working with his wife Audrey Magoun, documenting the presence of wolverines in the Wallowa Mountains.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Sep 4, 2012 - 11:25pm PT
Fix it or Fuck it...bitchin' don't do shit.

Except make ya a whiner......
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 4, 2012 - 11:46pm PT
Wolves nicer than humans?? Hmmm,,, a wolf equivalent in humans would be that theater shooter. They both Kill for fun.

Isn't that what all so-called sport hunters do? Kill for fun (macho ... whatever).

Yes indeed "happiness is a warm gun"

How in the fyuck do you know what motivates a wolf to kill? Some kind of wolf expert? I doubt it.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 5, 2012 - 11:58am PT
zBrown-

Your're totally incorrect about hunters. Some 80% of the hunters I've known are strictly after the meat. Lots of hunters in this category are at the lower incomes side of the socioeconomic spectrum and NEED the wild game to ease the burden of feeding a family. I've seen an awful lot of hispanics hunting for exactly that reason.

Hunting while I was in Grad school, trying to support a family on a graduate teaching assistantship, was damned useful. It was possible to save alot of $$$ on groceries by fishing and hunting. I managed to draw a moose permit, and bagged on the Fall of my final year in school; it made life pretty good, even though I was living on $375 with a wife and baby.

So...fuk off about the "macho" bull$hit.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Sep 5, 2012 - 12:06pm PT
Roxy must be kicking himself. This was his moment and he's not here to enjoy it. The greatest disappointment of his life.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 5, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Z brown,, ive been involved in mammals birds and fish since i could walk. Its been my business for decades. Ive had biologist friends in state and fed services for ever. Ive volunteered countless hours of time in habitat restorations and transplants. Built guzzlers and helped in counts of wildlife. Im certainly not an expert of Wolves biology but i am in the circle of those that do know quite well. They do run wildlife FOR FUN or habit- only the WOLF knows for sure. The results however are still the same.

The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 5, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Your're totally incorrect about hunters. Some 80% of the hunters I've known are strictly after the meat.

He said "sport hunters". Appears that there are hunters who are just in it for the trophy.

Looked around on the web, and appears that the popular biologist perspective is that wolves don't kill for sport, but that they do sometimes surplus kill.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 5, 2012 - 12:13pm PT
Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that wolves kill elk and limit the size of herds???????

OMG!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Now that is some important news.

Lol.

DMT

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 5, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
"surplus" you say?? Well if you call surplus killing having one of your hounds yanked out of his kennel ofter being broken into, dragged out and ripped to pieces then left to die, or the horse that stumbled around on three legs after having one chewed off then left as a "surplus" action, then i wold say those "biologists" are the ones making their livings off the wolf re-intros..
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 5, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
Great article, Fritz!

...tells the quintessence of the blunders and disregard of the wolf introduction without carping or caring what Mrs. Grundy might say...and short enough that forum readers might pore over it.

Brokedownclimber struck a chord about very low income families in the upper Rocky Mountain states. Many depend on deer and elk to help in feeding their families.

...my dad worked at the Freedom Arms factory in Star Valley, WY a few months between coaching jobs. Some of the locals would drive into the Idaho hills from the east and harvest deer and elk for subsistence. The Idaho game wardens seldom came because they had to go the long way around and come in through Wyoming to patrol the area.

...a similar situation on the Idaho side of the Tetons...low income people from Driggs and Victor go into the lightly patroled foothills in Wyoming to get deer.

Breaking the law is wrong...but locals will look the other way and wardens will refrain from citing individuals they know are hurting to provide for their families.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 5, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
@brokedownclimber:

I would make a distinction between sport and food hunters.

It's always nice to say where you come up with numbers like 80% so that folks can know from whence you're deriving your conclusions. For example, how many hunters have you surveyed.

My conclusion is based purely on anecdotal evidence that I read or heard. It could be wrong, as could yours.

@Ron Anderson

"They do run wildlife FOR FUN or habit- only the WOLF knows for sure."

Not sure what you're gettin at here. Many predators run down their prey. I objected to you or anyone claiming they know the "motivations" of an animal like a wolf. I guess you agree with me.






Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 5, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
You see,, SOME will call those hunters whom shoot a nice trophy sized deer (one that has aged , prospered his genes etc) and not only eat it but wish to preserve the beauty of the specimen by having it mounted "trophy hunters" .

News flash, just because one shoots a trophy sized animal and wishes to utilize EVERYTHING from it doesnt make one a "trophy hunter"..


FYI, about trophy hunters, they happen to contribute to economies FAR more than any animal rights group ever thought about. How many MILLIONS does the Safari club International bring to the towns they have conventions in?? How much have trophy hunters given to help prosper game species?? BILLIONS... these are the same guys that saved the scimitar oryx from total extinction just recently.


ZB,, I watch my dog run rabbits and such and her look tells me she is having great fun in doing so. I know my dog as well as anything. The wolves have that same look as the chase down a moose. So YES im guessing at the FUN factor, but a canine is a canine in basics. Sally-O says im right lol!
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 5, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
Re: "Trophy Hunters."

As Ron said, there are those who collect the racks as well as eating the animal. Why, you might ask? In my case it's strictly a "memorabilia" thing, and a way for a old fart to remember some happy, but bygone days.
Much of hunting involves the cameraderie with several close friends who share similar views and interests. As a climber, do you hang out with bowlers or golfers? Skydivers tend to hang out at the airports with other jumpers, or sometimes the pilots of the jump plane.

I can understand the sentiments of the "wolf lovers," but I can deride them for their unrealistic fantasies about the "BENIGN" nature of these PREDATORS.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Sep 5, 2012 - 03:20pm PT
Hunting guiding is a big part of some areas economies. Food production is hardly the goal. Paying a guide service and renting of the hunting lodge to help you get food is pretty costly. They are out there for the experience.

It's mega ironic when a cattle rancher tries to portray wolves as viscous killers when they make their livelihood from a killing industry.

Wolves can't operate guns or pop into Micky D's, so I guess that makes them vicious. Man is the top PREDATOR.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 5, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
as it always has been /will be.. Science says that.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 5, 2012 - 04:29pm PT
You ever watch any of those old movies, where some guy gets "released" into the jungle, mountains, on some island and then the jungle-master, mountain-man, island-jammer hunts him down and kills him?

I never have been able to catch the look on the boss's face to see if he was having fun or not.

Course these movies are all just made up stuff.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 5, 2012 - 05:35pm PT
Looking at the Idaho Fish and Game website ...if someone buys an elk or deer tag they get a wolf tag also.

I don't hunt.... I wonder when the state will give wolf tags with fishing licenses...

How would "catch-and-release" work with a "cast-and-blast" permit.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 5, 2012 - 05:50pm PT
Nevada sells unlimited mtn lion tags each year - percentages of the average hunter not running dogs of finding one that will be still long enough to shoot are rare as finding a large gold nugget. You GLIMPSE them now and then , and then they ghost.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 5, 2012 - 06:26pm PT
Mountain lions sun themselves on the cabin deck, here, occasionally...

and from time to time there's a peeping tom

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 5, 2012 - 06:29pm PT
Nice peeping Tom cat!

I can deride them for their unrealistic fantasies about the "BENIGN" nature of these PREDATORS
Man, I was beginning to think no one would EVER comment on that! Don't take it personally, it's just bait.....
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 5, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
Wyoming also has unlimited mountain lion tags available; there's a catch, though. A kill must be reported, and the "season" is prone to changing after the "quota" has filled. They're here at my ranch, and I've seen tracks but never an animal.
crasic

climber
Sep 5, 2012 - 06:33pm PT
Paying a guide service and renting of the hunting lodge to help you get food is pretty costly.

And then there are Ted Nugent's "hunting safari's" where the dress the animal up in a tutu for you to make the shot easier. Certainly not for fun AMIRITE!

just to clarify, I have nothing against hunting as I've done it before, I love fishing, and I'm a target archer as well, I just see it for what it is in the first world another recreational activity. Just like climbing/hiking/backpacking. And in the same vein "gun nuts" and "gun collectors" aren't the epitome of american patriotism and reeking of hardman that they think they are, they are hobbyists in the same way that a kid collecting yu-gi-oh cards is.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Nov 14, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
associated press

SPOKANE, Wash. — The state Fish and Wildlife Department spent nearly $77,000 to kill seven wolves in a pack that had been preying on cattle in Stevens County in northeast Washington.Only one wolf was killed in a 39-day ground hunt that cost nearly $55,000. The other six wolves were killed in a four-day period in September using a helicopter and a marksman that cost $22,000.The Spokesman-Review reports ( http://is.gd/1UlKN8); the cost was disclosed in a letter the Department of Fish and Wildlife sent to state Sen. Kevin Ranker of Orcas Island, chairman of the legislative committee overseeing the department.Ranker has criticized the decision to kill the Wedge pack and is planning a legislative hearing next year.

Read more here: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2012/11/14/2170402/killing-ne-washington-wolf-pack.html#storylink=cpy
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