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Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 27, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
I work for the LA City Fire Dept.. A few shifts back I went on a chemical spill that turned out to be Flouride in our water treatment plant. The workers and ourselves gave the product wide birth until our haz mat team showed and took care of it.
It got me thinking about flouride in our water. I know it is supposed to be good for teeth and at the dentist they apply it topically to teeth. On tooth past they say to call poison control if you swallow a pea sized dose of toothpaste. So my question is why would it help teeth to drink it and absorb it into our system, bones, organs etc.... Seems a little odd.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Aug 27, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
Fluoride?
She's da bomb.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Aug 27, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
Why would we pay $5 million to set up our water supply with it, then an extra 1/2 million a year, to force people to drink flouride in their water. Flouride is easily applied via paste onto teeth by dentists by anyone who chooses it. (I choose it for myself, and for my kids, but I don't want to drink it in my water)

My mom has dentures. She gets forced to pay for something she doesn't need or want?
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 27, 2012 - 04:38pm PT
Scared me to death! Thought she was injured or something. Phew.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:09pm PT
As a retired professional chemist--I avoid fluoride toothpaste and fluoridated water like the plague (which it IS!). Stannous Fluoride is the substance added to toothpaste, which is toxic in any appreciable quantity. I believe that it's impossible to get fluoride toothpaste in the Eurozone, since it's been "outlawed."

Since I live on a ranch with my own domestic water supply, I don't have much of an issue in fluoride avoidance. I buy toothpase w/o fluorides for my personal use. If you have any silver amalgam fillings, the fluorides also etch the amalgamated mercury from the fillings, adding the toxicity of mercury to your "diet."

Yum!
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:15pm PT
Some of the worst cases of fluoride poisoning(dental fluorosis) comes from well water.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:18pm PT
Flurosilicic acid is widely used for fluoridation, but it's a really nasty chemical in concentrated form. But, so are Sulfuric Acid, Caustic soda and Sodium Hypochlorite also widely used in water treatment.

Other than 30% hydrogen peroxide, or Chlorine gas though, it probably is the worst character to handle.

Fluoridation systems require redundant auditing practices to insure that you don't put too much in the water. Dosage rates in the water are in the sub parts per million. Water companies in general would rather not mess with it if it was up to them and most systems are installed with state grant money.

We also sell systems for removing an over abundance of naturally occurring fluoride in well water on an industrial scale.

Which treatment plant anyway?


paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:38pm PT
wasn't there a huge scam where a lot of sodium hexaflouride was sold to be put into drinking water even though it isn't really the right way to do it ?


(and hell yes she's the bomb...)
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
Just a gripe here!

Please SPELL IT CORRECTLY!! It's FLUORIDE, not flouride.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:47pm PT

Sodium Hexafluoride is used for gas circuit breakers.

Never heard of it being used or even being proposed for water treatment. It would be a ridiculously expensive and complicated way to do it.
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:58pm PT
that was part of the scam iirc...don't feel like working the google at the moment though...

ok, i did go google...but i was distracted, short attention span...

she's the bomb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rShuU97GABw
doc bs

Social climber
Northwest
Aug 27, 2012 - 06:01pm PT
Fluoride is one of the 10 greatest public health achievements in US history.

I grew up on well water and all my molars were filled by the time I left home. Thanks to good dental insurance and flossing and brushing, at 48 I still have all my teeth. Two are capped with more on the way, those fillings wont last for ever.

Most people in this country cant afford dental insurance. In Maine, family doctors are being trained to extract teeth. In our little town in WA, we varnish the teeth of medicaid babies with fluoride (who knows when we will see them again) and we teach young families to give their babies fluoride drops. Grown ups need fluoride too, just ask your dentist (if you have one).

Dont even get me started on immunizations!!!
Kalimon

Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 27, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
My dentist in Montrose thinks that fluoride is toxic and has no purpose being administered to humans. Same for the use of amalgam fillings . . . mercury = poison.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Aug 27, 2012 - 06:16pm PT


Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we've ever had to face?
DanaB

climber
CT
Aug 27, 2012 - 06:20pm PT
Fluoride is the substance added to toothpaste, which is toxic in any appreciable quantity.

Acute or chronic toxicity?

Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Aug 27, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
I'll bet Fluoride's what is really in those "chemtrails".
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Aug 27, 2012 - 07:18pm PT

Just like Tarbaby said!
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Aug 27, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
I see that people in the U.S. are dying a lot younger these days, too.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2012 - 07:29pm PT
Love that Strangelove scene.

The thing that concerns me as I sit and drink LA City tap water is that flUoride cannot be dosed in drinking water. There is some concern by the CDC as they recommend or actually tell parents not to give babies their formula with Fluoride treated water.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Aug 27, 2012 - 07:37pm PT
So I was in Haiti doing free dental work with our organization. Thousands of patients we have seen in the past few years (we started our work there before the earthquake).




We target schools and orphanages, and when we are done, we see the local adults in the afternoon. Most of the kids have 3-5 teeth we have to remove. Most of the adults have 3-5 teeth left in the back of their mouths.





We were told about one village we were going to that had really ugly teeth and that we should get up early because it was going to be a long day.


Everyone had fluorosis! I figured their well water (every village we visited used the same well in the middle of town) was at least 100ppm. We pulled maybe 5 teeth at the school and left early.



It was one of the only schools we went to where the students were actually learning and able to concentrate. And the old people were older because they could chew food - they all still had teeth in their mouths. Better quality of life, better mental development, etc.

Fluorosis!
Fluorosis!
Credit: tooth






This whole no-Fl thing is a very first-world problem. I'm more for freedom of choice than apparent need to keep North America cavity free - I work in a town with no FL and it keeps me busier. My most profitable clientele are the Natropath's kids. They are loaded with gingivitis and dental decay. At least it is natural!



Some more pics from Haiti....


School for the Deaf kids after extractions.
School for the Deaf kids after extractions.
Credit: tooth

Credit: tooth

Credit: tooth


splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 27, 2012 - 07:37pm PT
Yea, what SteveW said, about what Tarbaby said!

Fluoride rocks!!

Thread definitely lost its boing factor with the first post! lol

Was hoping she would post/make an appearance. Otherwise, this thread is just plain B-O-R-I-N-G!!

edit: Tooth (yer the exception/knott boring) awesome post and work, bro! Kudos! Keep up the good work!!
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Aug 27, 2012 - 07:44pm PT
check out the ad I just got too - coincidence ? I think they're sapping our strength...

Credit: paganmonkeyboy
scottish nob rot

Trad climber
scotland
Aug 27, 2012 - 07:44pm PT
they sell fluoride containing toothpastes in the uk, as well as the eurozone

i've always been told its the reason why americans have whiter teeth than everyone else, well as a stereotype anyways, (ive met tucker)

as far as i knew it was harmless in small quantities
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 27, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
Southern California has particularly mineral rich ground water. So much in fact that it spawned its own particular design of pressure control valves that can handle it.




Back in the 50's water softeners became all the rage. My dad had the wisdom to plumb ours into everything except the kitchen sink.

We all grew up drinking hard water that must have had an ample amount of naturally concurring fluoride. no dentist ever made a living off of me or my siblings.

Can't say the same for my wife or the others I know that weaned to deionized water.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Aug 27, 2012 - 08:24pm PT
You were told wrong Scottish knob. Fl has no whitening effect unless you include that chalky white. Mos people have been told wrong. But the logic based on the disinformation is solid 100 per cent. But that doesnt make the conclusion correct, just the logic.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Aug 27, 2012 - 08:32pm PT
i was about to post that the only thing this site is missing is a flouridation thread.


so thank you.


even if this is a troll.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Aug 27, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
i've always been told its the reason why americans have whiter teeth than everyone else

This is because we gargle with hydrogen peroxide.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 27, 2012 - 08:54pm PT
It's not the flouride you have to worry about at a water treatment plant.

The Dihydo Monoxide is the real killer.

PROVEN to kill thousands every year!!!!

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

It is used by Al Qaida!!!!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 27, 2012 - 08:58pm PT
Isn't that stuff in the chemtrails?
murcy

Gym climber
sanfrancisco
Aug 27, 2012 - 08:59pm PT
i was about to post that the only thing this site is missing is a flouridation thread.

And yet you didn't, because your will has been weakened by fluoride courtesy of comrade Khrushchev.
Phil_B

Social climber
Hercules, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 10:08pm PT
Mandrake knew about this!



Next thing you know, they'll be wanting our precious body fluids!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 27, 2012 - 10:23pm PT
Hey, Fluoride...

Why 'Fluoride'?
klk

Trad climber
cali
Aug 27, 2012 - 10:28pm PT
And yet you didn't, because your will has been weakened by fluoride courtesy of comrade Khrushchev.

but ive denied them my bodily essence!

of course id trade some for another bottle of old potrero.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:14pm PT
Holy CRAP! You almost gave me a heart attack batrock. I had no idea what this thread was going to be about. Just got off work and logged in for the first time today and saw this thread title and thought "uh-oh??".

FYI it's spelled fluoride :)

Why the name? Two reasons. One, the day I logged in way back in the day I'd just come back from the dentist and got the standard cleaning lecture and I thought it was an innocuous handle that would suffice for the time being. Didn't intend to stay with it but I just did.

The second is the bass player for the Dead Kennedys was Klaus Fluoride. The greatest stage name ever. So between those two things that's how I came on the handle (dentist plus punk rock equalled ID at the time. Made sense to me at then at least). And there's already a Klaus around here.

I'm fine, alive and well. Still climbing on weekends in JT (through the summer yes, I am officially a local. I have shady routes dialed now) and Tuolumne for a couple of long trips this season.

Cheers everyone.

Fluoride. Or Beth. That works just fine too. :)
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:27pm PT
Beth Fluoride, is the only fluoride we need!

edit: yer welcome, Beth! and speaking of healthy teeth and great smiles, your trips to the dentist have obviously paid off...gorgeous! and glad to here you have been having some fun climbing this summer. it is a delight to have a few badazz gals here on ST, that have their priorities right. thanx fer sounding in, & keep on rock'n!
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:30pm PT
Thank you splitter. And I wish you all healthy teeth and great smiles!
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:39pm PT
Flouride. OK
That's good - one of my fav ST friends.


Haiti has some of the most gourgous human beings in the world.
I had forgotten until seeing those pics.
I'm telling ya - in any triage line ya could pull 4 or 5 supermodels out with out even trying.


The kids are so happy, smiling, and heathy.
It's a real irony..
1st world problem..
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 28, 2012 - 12:13am PT
Had me worried as well. Can't be letting anything happen to the real deal.

But in the drinking water - great idea, but it can be a tough sell here in Portland as a Portlandia bastion of an uneducated anti-vaccine, anti-science, anti-anti crowd. The guberment's out to poison us...!
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 12:20am PT
PS batrock isn't a troll. He's a local firefighter who has been a good presence on this site for some time. I think he was just asking an honest question and didn't realize the correlation.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 12:23am PT
healyje - do you watch Portlandia the show on IFC? Hilarious!!! Can find great clips on youtube for those who have never seen it....it's the greatest love letter slash truthieness (Colbert term) to that city ever.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 12:31am PT
healyje - how can we forget the genius of Dream of the 90's (is alive in Portland). Portlandia rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVmq9dq6Nsg

"My flannel shirt still looks fly!"
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 28, 2012 - 12:36am PT
"PS batrock isn't a troll"

Much respect for Batrock. A long term fireman in the North Hollywood/Burbank/Tolouca Lake area. Also has been posting here on St fer at least as long as I have (five years). I was just kidding about the thread being boring (well, it was kind of a let down) thought it was gonna be a cool thread about you/Beth & yer life as a climber, etc.! But now that i think about it, it says "OT" so that would mean it was not climbing related!?! I missed that.

Well, it's all good...

edit: "Best said around an actual campfire" sounds great, that is how all the great stories & tales of the golden years of Yose, etc, were originally shared. all the great stories over the centuries, actually. around an actual campfire, perhaps sharing a lil' wine (or any beverage), beneath the soaring walls and roar of the falls. stories told in those surroundings take on a special significance & meaning ... and should not be rushed through, nor easily forgotten! Yes, they are, "Best said around an actual campfire.", indeed!!

"Portland" - pretty sure that is where the first 4:20 break was initiated (can't be/been all that bad, eh?) ... Portland[ia] rocks! lol
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 12:40am PT
"about you/Beth & yer life as a climber"

It's a VERY long story. Best said around an actual campfire.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 28, 2012 - 01:31am PT
healyje - how can we forget the genius of Dream of the 90's (is alive in Portland). Portlandia rules.

It's all too scarily true...
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 01:40am PT
healyje....just put a BIRD ON IT :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XM3vWJmpfo
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 28, 2012 - 01:48am PT
Okay, let's get back on topic...
Oh hi me.  Self portrait atop Statetly Pleasure Dome, same weekend.
Oh hi me. Self portrait atop Statetly Pleasure Dome, same weekend.
Credit: Fluoride
This pic says it all, in regards to this thread, flouride/fluoride, taking care of yer teeth & gorgeous smiles, etc!!

edit: "Put a bird on it." Hilarious!

B -- Actually, i lifted it here, off your profile/pictures section. i hope i didn't embaress you, or whatever. i think it is very apropos. gives this thread some substance. and it will definitely cheer up Tarbaby, SteveW, and a few others, i suspect! just sayin...

Yes, it is a beautiful pic of Tenaya Lake in all its winter/early Spring glory. i traveled over the pass a number of times around that time (1st opening) brings back memories. usually bee-lined it for the Valley, it would have been a very mellow & supreme time to do a route though. Kudos!

same here! sweet dreams/ciao!!
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 01:59am PT
I guess we're Facebook friends! That was my main pic for awhile. About 3 seasons ago at the opening weekend of the pass. The lake was still frozen over.

I always try to be there for the opening weekend of the Tioga Pass. Gateway to Tuolumne and the best Cali summer climbing has to offer.

Gotta go to bed now, 7am call time for work is drawing near. Thanks for all the good wishes. --B
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Aug 28, 2012 - 06:20am PT
I respect anybody who climbs in JTree during the summer.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 06:31am PT
fluoride was considering moving to telluride about a year ago, but she must've gotten more work in la-la land. i thought it would have produced an interesting reaction.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 28, 2012 - 06:55am PT
The thing that concerns me as I sit and drink LA City tap water is that flUoride cannot be dosed in drinking water. There is some concern by the CDC as they recommend or actually tell parents not to give babies their formula with Fluoride treated water.

CDC does NOT recommend what you say:
http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/safety/infant_formula.htm

What does Fluoride do? By far the most important thing is that when fluoride is ingested as our teeth are forming, it causes cross-links in the matrixes of the enamel that make it VERY resistant to decay. So much so, that children who have done this generally are free from a lifetime of cavities.

Once the teeth are formed and stop growing, consuming fluoride does not have this direct effect. Topical treatment helps, but is nowhere near as effective.

There are no deleterious health effects associated with the low doses that are involved.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 07:13am PT
i accepted the standard science on this until i read that joseph stalin put fluoride into the drinking water of his gulags and found that the prisoners became much easier to handle.

the forced fluoridation of public water continues to be an ongoing controversy. a quick google finds it currently debated in the city councils of portland, oregon, wichita, santa fe and madisonville, texas.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 28, 2012 - 07:44am PT
Stalin used fluoride? Hitler must have too in that case. Comon... Does that really make sense? There aren't 100 more effective substances to calm or poison prisoners with?

I heartily agree that public water supplies should contain potable water. That's it. If parents want to give there children fluoride, as I do, they can.

I believe fluoride is a good thing in small doses for the teeth but I also respect someone else's wishes not to use it.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 28, 2012 - 08:09am PT
Looks like chemtrails from UFO's. We're screwed.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2012 - 08:11am PT
Fluoride(Beth), sorry for the startle. Busy news day yesterday, in LA wasnt it? we got dispatched on the news chopper but cancelled thankfully. The shift before we went on the plane crash on San Fernando Rd. strange few days.

Speaking of the Dead Kenedy's, I saw them in 1984 or 1983 at the Olympic Auditorium in LA. Fishbone opened for them and the drummer of Fishbone hucked a drumstick into the crowed and pegged some dude in the eye. A mele broke out and the drummer ended up getting stabbed with his own broken drumstick. This caused a significant delay in the Dead Kennedy's coming on stage but the wait was worth it.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 05:44pm PT
Ralph Nader shares his thoughts on the subject of community water fluoridation.
http://youtu.be/b5HN4Rkxx78
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Dec 5, 2012 - 06:43pm PT
lol. Thought it was a FlUOride appreciation thread.

Hey where is that anyway...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 5, 2012 - 10:01pm PT
the forced fluoridation of public water continues to be an ongoing controversy. a quick google finds it currently debated in the city councils of portland, oregon, wichita, santa fe and madisonville, texas.

NOT among scientists, health care professionals, dentists, public health professionals.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Dec 5, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
The same politicians would debate funding schools and healthcare. Doesn't make it wrong.


Notice how they don't debate making the military do bake sales - just the schools.



That's how your science should work, if google says politicians are debating it, or if hitler used it (incorrect BTW)....
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Dec 6, 2012 - 07:09am PT
I spent ages 3-6 in west Texas where there is a lot of natural fluoride in the water. There were whole counties in those days with no dentists. In some, the people's teeth were brown like chewing tobacco, but not a cavity in their head.

I'm almost 68 years old and I've only had one cavity and that was in a wisdom tooth that most likely formed after we left the area. With checkups and cleanings, I've spent less than a thousand dollars on my teeth in my whole life.
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Dec 6, 2012 - 07:45am PT
maybe this fact has been mentioned; i didn't see it on a quick scan. Fluoridation is to the U.S. taxpayer the biggest scam in U.S. history; with the possible exception of homeland security.

It provides nothing but huge profits for producers and middlemen of the substance (as far as adding it to the drinking water).
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2012 - 08:09am PT
I understand how applying fluoride to the tooth surface might help but how can ingesting it help? On toothpaste it says call poison control if you swallow a pea size amount of fluoride toothpaste. How do you regulate dosage in drinking water? Everyone drinks a varying amount and therefore it is impossible to regulate. I went on a call last week where a burglar broke into a house being fumigated, we had to enter in full haz mat suits. The only thing being used in the fumigation was fluoride. Why can I drink it but have to where a full on haz mat entry suit to enter a house being fumigated with the same stuff?
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