I love the athiest life (OT)

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dirtbag

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 20, 2012 - 02:09am PT
Free from the bullshit!
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 20, 2012 - 02:16am PT
Regardless,

We Love You, Dirtbag!

And that is No Bullshit!!

;-)
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Aug 20, 2012 - 02:23am PT
Bullshit is free.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 20, 2012 - 02:44am PT
Yea, I suppose most of it is free.

But, then again, some of those who are full of it have gotten rich dispensing it for a fee. See some of them on tv still, usually latte at night or early Sunday mornings. And I suppose if I thought back over the years, I prollie paid for some of it myself. I therefore, respect Dirtbag's claim of being free of it. And I do admire anyone who is unencumbered or feel's they are "free of bullshit". Even though they may, themselves, feel I am full of exactly what they are free of.

And I get the point, who wouldn't? Do not force that bullshit onto anyone, particularly them! Kinda counter productive in the least, and overkill at worse.

Anyway, I am beginning to sound like I am full of bullsh#t, so I will depart.

Peace!
Psilocyborg

climber
Aug 20, 2012 - 02:51am PT
God isnt so narcissistic that he needs to be acknowledged. So kudos athiests!
MisterE

Social climber
Aug 20, 2012 - 02:54am PT
My wife is an Atheist, and one thing I have learned from her is this: She believes in living and loving - and that is more than many people ever find in their lives.

Captain...or Skully

climber
Aug 20, 2012 - 03:06am PT
Some so called atheists are simply Non-Theists.
There is a difference.
Life is Life, however it's practiced.
Divisions diminish us all.
Cheers!
Loomis

climber
Peklo Vole!
Aug 20, 2012 - 03:44am PT
Jim Jefferies On Religion

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Aug 21, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
Maybe some atheists and agnostics will stop calling themselves "nonbelievers" if they see this video:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO70IaPZMto
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Aug 21, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
it takes faith to start a thread like this
Timmc

climber
BC
Aug 21, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
Dirtbag +1

Loomis- thanks for the laughs

The God Delusion is a good read for those who sit on the fence.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 21, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
I don't know if I love the atheist life anymore than I would a life beieving in God, but reason and the evidence at hand make it impossible for me to be anything but an atheist. +1 for The God Delusion.
Loomis

climber
Peklo Vole!
Aug 21, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
What would Alex Honnold say?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1769645&tn=0&mr=0

Honnold is an avid reader, with interests in classic literature,
environmentalism, and economics. When asked about his religious or spiritual views, he described himself as a "militant atheist." [10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Honnold

Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 21, 2012 - 04:56pm PT
I guess I could be called a committed Atheist, and loving it
as opposed to agnostic
I've been totally into reading books on atheism and the science of God (delusion)

Besides Dawkins, check out:
Victor Stenger, "God, the Folly of Faith", and "God, a Failed Hypothesis"
Micheal Shermer, Loftus, Dan Barker

and check out these mags - The Skeptic, and The Skeptical Inquirer

Awesome stuff to know
P.Rob

Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
Aug 25, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
My experience with the proclaimed and committed atheists in my life – this includes siblings with advanced degrees operating at a world class level in their respective fields –all real solid individuals. Enlightened self interest is how one of my partners describes it. These are People of veracity and above reproach. That said, anything militant is natural suspect in my mind. After all militant is just a catch phrase for fundamentalist reactionary ready to bludgeon anyone and anything that does not kowtow to their strict doctrine – an expected acquiescence if not we will shout louder and longer until you do prime directive – “resistance is futile….” Reciprocity & respect for the process should be foundational in any discussion in my opinion

Thank you to the proclaimed and committed Atheists on ST – even the shrill & whiney ones and you know who you are - for you help to promote ideas and discussions. Strength and encouragement to you all …………. For myself I do not have enough faith to be an atheist – please know I tried. In the end I give thanks to Darwin and praises to Gould! All power to Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris! In part due to your teachings I believe in God

“Men despise religion. They hate it and are afraid it may be true.”
Blaise Pascal

“Man is but a reed, the most feeble thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed”
Blaise Pascal


Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 25, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
As long as I don't get too narcissistic and see myself as all powerful, and nurture a sense of there being grater forces out there than my big mouth - for instance, Nature - I can still have some sense of there being holy things in the world, like him and her, without getting trapped by or ranting against the mythology.

The only true freedom is to be detached from every preference and to take it all "neat."

Easy to say, impossible to do perfectly, but it can act as a polestar. And that's a powerful tool.

JL
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Aug 25, 2012 - 05:13pm PT

JL
I wouldn't say Nature's perfect, but he does do pretty good sushi!!!
WyoRockMan

Trad climber
Flank of the Bighorns
Aug 25, 2012 - 05:39pm PT
A quote by Aaron Freeman:


You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.
And at one point you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives.
And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy's still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly.

Amen.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:10pm PT
Three Atheists walked into a bar.

A fourth managed to duck.

http://hub.webring.org/hub/atheism
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:10pm PT
As long as I don't get too narcissistic and see myself as all powerful, and nurture a sense of there being grater forces out there than my big mouth - for instance, Nature - I can still have some sense of there being holy things in the world, like him and her, without getting trapped by or ranting against the mythology.

Why would you blasphemize the word 'holy' while adhering to apparent agnosticism? Pick one belief system or the other.

The only true freedom is to be detached from every preference and to take it all "neat."

So you want it all ways. No obligations? Fine. Don't split hairs if you're a Christian. Either you believe, or you don't. Quit trying to tread the agnostic stupid middle ground.

Easy to say, impossible to do perfectly, but it can act as a polestar. And that's a powerful tool.

What?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:14pm PT
Sorry, native Americans have already figured out what JL looks for. And it resembles euro religions on many points. it aint all bad. But its USUALLY those whom accept NO spirits that scream the loudest.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:20pm PT
My point to Johnny Long is, make a f*#king decisive religious point! Everyone side-steps religion, and half-steps it.

A real confident person says , "I believe this, I am this", and enough said. Make a coherent stand and defend it or support it.

Quit being defensive, incoherent, and politically correct!!!! Make a stand. Man.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
This morning my GOD was a blue grouse- that rose from earthly confines on thunderous wing. How simple is that.
P.Rob

Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
For sh*ts & giggles

"Now we see how the astronomical evidence supports the biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy."
"There is a strange ring of feeling and emotion in these reactions [of scientists to evidence that the universe had a sudden beginning]. They come from the heart whereas you would expect the judgments to come from the brain. Why? I think part of the answer is that scientists cannot bear the thought of a natural phenomenon which cannot be explained, even with unlimited time and money. There is a kind of religion in science; it is the religion of a person who believes there is order and harmony in the Universe. Every event can be explained in a rational way as the product of some previous event; every effect must have its cause, there is no First Cause. … This religious faith of the scientist is violated by the discovery that the world had a beginning under conditions in which the known laws of physics are not valid, and as a product of forces or circumstances we cannot discover. When that happens, the scientist has lost control. If he really examined the implications, he would be traumatized."
"Consider the enormity of the problem. Science has proved that the universe exploded into being at a certain moment. It asks: What cause produced this effect? Who or what put the matter or energy into the universe? And science cannot answer these questions, because, according to the astronomers, in the first moments of its existence the Universe was compressed to an extraordinary degree, and consumed by the heat of a fire beyond human imagination. The shock of that instant must have destroyed every particle of evidence that could have yielded a clue to the cause of the great explosion."
"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
Dr. Robert Jastrow
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
I just bought a shotgun, Ronnie, we may need to go shootin'/Climbin' soon.

Teach me to clean a bird?
damo62

Social climber
Brisbane
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:36pm PT
blasphemize, Bluey, blasphemize?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
Aug 25, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
"Punk Shoe Ate Equilibrium."

End Times x Infinity = an infinitely repeating cycle. Or does it?

Ripley's Dis-Believe It or Not:

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. this is one nation under God."---George H.W. "Burning" Bush, 1987.

Mr. Rational sez go to Youtube and check out the 8:02 minutes of "Atheist Riddle Solved."
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Aug 25, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
sure Bluey cmon up sometime will go for some chukars. It isnt season yet though.. Stuff opens up in sept through oct. ;-) This was on a very early morning walk.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2012 - 08:53pm PT
10-4, Ron. I'll be in contact.

Why are Atheists so loud about their belief in nothing? I dunno.

I don't even know what a f*#king chukar is, bro. I'll shoot one though...
shit tooth

Trad climber
Oklahoma City, OK
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
Learning the scientific origins of earth is much more thrilling than a story that even a 7 year old can comprehend. I see the impermanence of life and know that I truly should live the way I want. I like the intricacies of a vast and old universe.

Overall, its not that I weighed out the pros and cons of either lifestyle and picked accordingly. I picked the most logical, factually based system that I could see. To be truly logically honest, I suppose you should be agnostic... But on the other hand, we should all be agnostic to big foot, mermaids, and other mystical things, because you cannot prove they don't exist. Proving a negative is near impossible.

One last thing, it is nice to be able to look at people of all different religions in the exact same light. All your beliefs are silly, but I will still treat you the same because I was once a believer as well.
shit tooth

Trad climber
Oklahoma City, OK
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:21pm PT
bluering, we speak loudly because religion allows so much evil. Also, it promotes dumb theories (i.e. the earth is 12k years old, god made the universe in a week, languages came about as gods punishment for a tall building, two of every animal can fit on a boat etc etc)
WBraun

climber
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:22pm PT
Proving a negative is near impossible.


God is a positive and has therefor been proved for millions of years.

Boy are atheists so stupid ......
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
Fer Christs sake
I'm not a militant atheist
just a committed atheist

Words, always used against you by those that have issues with intent to discredit your words or intent of words

Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:28pm PT

Boy are atheists so stupid ......
That's another drink
Cheers werner

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT GOD Exists
Stop saying such stupid crap,
let's see your proof that doesn't exist, just like your God that you say exists, Where is it??
Man up! Show us something!


Talk about Stupid, You Have nothing except calling things you don't understand as stupid
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:30pm PT
Taking it "neat" means taking Bluring just as he is, no preference that he be different.

Fact is, some people struggle mightily with beliefs - that God does nor does not exist. Or whatever.

But most of this is just so much mentalizing. You end up in the same place.

JL
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
Largo
The issue is Big
It is not a "What Ever"
It means that your Religion is Correct. or a delusion
Every Belief you have about God and spirits, the afterlife, justice, morals, ethics and laws that are being imposed on others

If your religion is delusion, then all your claims of what your religion is doing for you and others is a delusion as well
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
bluering, we speak loudly because religion allows so much evil. Also, it promotes dumb theories (i.e. the earth is 12k years old, god made the universe in a week, languages came about as gods punishment for a tall building, two of every animal can fit on a boat etc etc)


Religion allows so much evil? So what is the genesis of good, man? If you try to nit-pick the Bible, you have no faith. The Bible is only a record of people's understanding of the past. It's a press report. Doesn't mean the sh#t didn't happen, they just reported what they saw, or were told.

The Gospels were, by all reports, pretty accurate. As for your silly 'built in a week' argument, you have to understand they used different calenders back then. In the Old Testament, why do you think dudes were living to be 800 years old?

If evil does exist, as you say, doesn't there have to be a 'force of good', or God?

A logical person would conclude that evil besets good. What is the genesis of this balance?
shit tooth

Trad climber
Oklahoma City, OK
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
proving something doesn't exist is to prove a negative. For example, prove to me without a doubt that you've never murdered someone... You can't. That is why I say it is slightly more logical to be agnostic, but by that argument its just a logical to be agnostic in every other mystical being.

There have been 2,800 unique gods that have been recorded in history. It is part of the human condition to want there to be somebody who takes care of everything. I take it you don't believe in 2, 799 of them so we're nearly the same bluering :D
WBraun

climber
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
Dr F -- "let's see ..."

What can you see since you're blind and your mechanistic science is blind.

Dr F -- "If your religion is ...."

If = guessing.

I told you again and again and again.

You are blind as a bat and are a true mental speculator with no ultimate clue.

God is beyond you're silly mechanistic scientific conclusion and theories.



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
Taking it "neat" means taking Bluring just as he is, no preference that he be different.

Fact is, some people struggle mightily with beliefs - that God does nor does not exist. Or whatever.

But most of this is just so much mentalizing. You end up in the same place.

JL

Um, no. I know what f*#king "neat" means, bro. I love whiskey. You mince the words like a master ninja.

Why don't you just say, people believe different shit! Quit trying to be a thoughtful author and just f*#king speak your mind.

What I wanted to know, is what you believe. Are you Christian? Agnostic? Jewish? Muslim? Zoro-Astrian?

Sorry. I like you, but now I pissed....
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 25, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
If = guessing.
No, If means IF, it has nothing to do with guessing

Have you ever read a dictionary?

Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Aug 25, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
I worship Ra. Dozens of pyramids can't be wrong.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 25, 2012 - 10:35pm PT
Here is the reality that converted me from a God believer to an Atheist

The concept of an Afterlife,
If you think about this concept logically, scientifically, or in any other way, you realize that it's impossible, illogical, and completely made up by man for religious purposes.

If there is No afterlife, then Man has no purpose,
and that God has no influence on you this life, nor the next life.
There Is no greater justice, there is no spiritual evolution, there is no goal what so ever, no enlightenment, no escape from the flesh and suffering.

Humans have no purpose, as we all know, we are born, we eat and we die, Just like every other animal. All we can hope for is for our selfish gene to live on, through another human, that is our only purpose, creating more humans

That is the purpose of all life, to create more of the same
There is no higher purpose, No God, and No after life nor reincarnation

All the afterlife nonsense has been made up by man to use as a means of controlling other humans through religion and guilt, and hope for a better life after death.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 25, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
Bluring, I'm not "trying" to be anything. I'm just not hooked into the entire mental aspect of all of this because it has almost nothing to do with reality.

Reality is the geyser that arises in our awareness. Taking this "neat," without extruding it through beliefs, takes a pretty good set of balls, IME. You make it sound like I waver, like I have some moral imperative to make some definitive statement but the geyser - thar she blows.

Meanwhile Craig is demanding that our mental content - be it truth or delusion - is apparently a bigger deal than the geyser itself - meaning our interpretation is bigger than the shizzle itself. Or maybe our interpretation (truth, belief, delusions, definitive religious statements) IS the shizzle.

That much said, our thoughts and beliefs DO create our reality -so what's a man to do.

Shizzzzam!

JL
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 25, 2012 - 11:04pm PT
Some people Want to know more about our universe and reality

I want to know how life evolved, and the science that goes along with it

Not some geyser of self indulgence in delusional folly that seems to satisfy your spiritual quest
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Aug 25, 2012 - 11:06pm PT
then some can see ties between the science and the myths. But,,
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Aug 25, 2012 - 11:08pm PT
No having to imagine what life would be like…. Its already being lived… no bullshit
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 25, 2012 - 11:16pm PT

Not some geyser of self indulgence in delusional folly that seems to satisfy your spiritual quest


That she blows . . .

The funny thing is that that rant is part of the geyser, and what I think or believe and profess about it, how I quantify or describe or feel about it mean nothing.

JL
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 25, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
Fair enough, Largo. You never really answered my query as to your faith, and I see why you cannot.

Bottom line, I guess, is to follow your own line. And be true to it.

Just pick a good line.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Aug 26, 2012 - 12:54am PT
huh? Riley,,, "these discussions shape the future of our country"??? Had no idea supertopo was THAT popular, i better start wearing a Tie when i post! ;-)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 26, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
Cheers, Riley, I dig hangin' with you too. (even though you're politically misguided...hehe)

Hope to see you again soon, my brother!
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Aug 29, 2012 - 10:02am PT
I was raised... nothing.

Nothing at all. My parents raised me in a completely religion-free home. They weren't the least-bit anti- religion. They actually never had a word for or against as I recall. Our family just sort of.. ignored it.

Life's a lot simpler in Atheist-land. Live for now since when you die... you're done.

PS: Thanks for the nice post about me on pg1 honey.
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Aug 29, 2012 - 10:23am PT
Ooops, from the other thread thread...

---


I'm in. Was brought up by parents who were deeply religious early in their respective lives and dropped it once they got married in NYC City Hall because each was of a different religion (mom=southern baptist, dad=eastern orthodox) and my dad's side sent death threats to my mom, quite the wake up call. So I was never indoctrinated with religious precepts and revealed truths... And my Sundays were free and clear then and remain so to this day.

My wife was selectively religious when we first met. I have since broken her of that fence-sitting and she fell onto the evil non-believer side with me. However, she did send two of our kids to a Lutheran pre-school where my son began to believe in hell and that god is vengeful. Yikes, had to break him of that.

I can say that the entire Gunkie Gang is now living on the evil side of the fence. More can be learned from the attached video below.

Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Aug 29, 2012 - 10:31am PT
Zen Buddhism and dont even think about it.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Aug 29, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
A real confident person says , "I believe this, I am this", and enough said. Make a coherent stand and defend it or support it.

Quit being defensive, incoherent, and politically correct!!!! Make a stand. Man.

If cancer cells could talk, this is what they'd say.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Aug 29, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
Zen Buddhism and dont even think about it.


perfect
socialclimber

Trad climber
CA
Aug 29, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
Credit: socialclimber

Charles
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 29, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
From what can be tallied from posters on ST

It appears that Atheism is the most common Religion of Climbers
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 29, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
Agnostic pantheist here. Athiest in the sense of not anthropomorphizing a diety.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 29, 2012 - 06:11pm PT
Like the Muppet, I was raised in a household with no religion. It wasn't anti-religion. It wasn't pro-religion. It just wasn't a topic at all.

Bluering asks about what some of us believe and expresses a desire that we take a stand and be a man. (I can't be a man, but I can express my thoughts). I've not been asked, but here goes.

My thought is that I am but a teeny tiny itsy bitsy speck in the face of the universe. Given my near nothingness, how I can expect to know what is real or not in terms of a God or heaven or any of it? Not saying I disbelieve or believe. But I don't feel significant enough to think I could know something so significant.

Recently, I found myself jealous (for lack of better word) of those with strong conviction and assurances that there is an afterlife a God and other positive and reassuring things a religion offers. It may sound trivial to you, but it was the death of Ferne, my parrot. I saw him conceived. I still have the egg he hatched from. I raised him. I have feathers he molted throughout his life. He was (is) my baby as much as any human baby could have been. Possibly more. And he died unexpectedly on New Year's Eve. That pain was (is) indescribable.

A lot of the pain of his death comes from not knowing where he "is". Where is he? How can he just cease? How can that energy that was Ferne - uniquely Ferne - just stop? To think that he was (is) just over/gone is really unbearable.

From this pain, I find great comfort in this quote posted upthread by Wyo guy (forgot your full avatar - sorry):

You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.

I've really looked at it all differently since Ferne's death. I still don't believe that as a tiny speck in the cosmos I can presume to ever know the truth. But man, I want more than anything to know Ferne still is and is well and that I'll see him again.
moacman

Trad climber
Montana
Aug 29, 2012 - 06:15pm PT
I am a true atheist so help me god.........

Stevo
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 29, 2012 - 09:18pm PT
Sorry, But Ferne is gone
accept it, then you will feel better about it

edit
if he/she a Christian, then Fenre is in Hell, since he/she didn't surrender his soul to Jesus
If he was a Buddhist, then Ferne will reincarnate

But still there is no workable theory that accepts any kind of afterlife for birds
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Aug 29, 2012 - 09:22pm PT
+1000 for what Crimpie wrote
tornado

climber
lawrence kansas
Aug 29, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
anybody remember before they were born? There you go. Ever spend a sleepless night over that question?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Aug 29, 2012 - 09:30pm PT
Just got home. Why would you people promote this thread with atheist spelled wrong in lieu of Khanom's? How sloppy is that! Christians and Muslims (Jews too) must love it. Maybe it's a vast Christian conspiracy!

Maybe I'll start a... I love the Chistian life.

.....

I see you, Crimpers.



Dr. F., there's a time for facts and there is a time for empathy. If you don't get that, just go away for awhile, pause for the cause.

.....

Food for thought: athy... athier... athiest

athy (made-up definition): angry, aggro, mean

 an athy atheist :)
  QT Who's the athiest atheist at super topo? ANS Nobody. They're all very kind, compassionate and friendly, through and through.
Kalimon

Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 29, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
One must simply listen to Joseph Campbell's "Power of Myth" in order to realize that all religions are just culturally specific mythology, the same stories repeating over and over that give the recipients answers and structure to the profound mystery we confront.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 29, 2012 - 09:36pm PT
Thanks Fruity

But I think Crimper is big Girl
and wrote this now to say that she accepts that her dear Ferne is gone
Rest his/her soul in peace
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Aug 29, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
Crimpy said:

But man, I want more than anything to know Ferne still is and is well and that I'll see him again.

16 years now my dad has been gone and I feel the same way about him as you do Ferne
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Aug 29, 2012 - 10:26pm PT
It's too bad me and Fruity could never team up
He is just a little judgemental to aid a fellow traveler, and instead bites the hand that feeds him
TomT

Trad climber
Aptos.
Sep 3, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
I'll check in as atheist (non-theist??). Was raised conservative baptist, in a big church in Los Gatos Calif, even went to a small christian college for a year, and worked for a christian outdoor org for years afterward. I was really into it in a cultural practices sort of way- went to church meetings 5 days a week, even ran a bible study at 6 am on Tuesdays during high-school. Wanted to be a missionary -seemed like the best adventure available. After leaving my religion, to keep the peace, I called myself an agnostic till a few years ago, when on reflection I realized I didn't really believe there was any god, and might as well admit it.

The church was a very social place, I loved singing, but its focus on moral conduct was not that important for me as I never got in much trouble. Once I stopped all religious practice such as bible study prayer, worship) I do miss singing- I lost any longing for the church. After leaving my home church, I lost all interest in the bible, religion and got more interested in history, society and culture, subjects my church or other christian friends did not discuss. My church seemed to be very provincial (the only things of interest were a few hundred years around the time of Jesus in Palestine and everything since 1946 in my home town.

I traveled a lot, climbed a lot, and went to school a lot for the next 10 years and got an graduate degree in anthropology, live in the Andes for a couples of years in small villages, and have worked in a University for many years hence.

My biggest doubts about my religion and there being a god sprung from noting (like my mother) that the people in our church were not better people than the catholics , mormons or anyone else on our block. Also, despite fervent prayers, I realized around 18 that god didn't really talk to me , and suddenly the bible seemed to be horribly off topic, a collection of weird old stories in which people seemed desperate to find truths. At bible studies, we practiced something I later learned is hermeneutics, extracting meaning from verses- I learned I didn't need the bible to find meanings or guidance.

Also, I began to see how the people in my church were conflating things like free enterprise and bible ideas (which as far as I could read into the bible leaned more towards spiritual collectivism than free market, nation-state, urban industrialism ). As a group they supported the Vietnam war, and the older people in the church seemed perfectly happy to send off 19 year boys to die on their behalf while they stayed home and made money. I concluded that most of the people in my church were shaped more by the economy and consumer culture than their religious beliefs. And they are were not alone- everyone in the world seems to mix political, economic and spiritual stuff, most of them defending stridently what their parents told them was the truth, while knowing very little about others.

Finally, historical stuff like the disease and the land wars that lead to losing most Native Americans in the first 100 years following the arrival of Europeans was not an event that made any sense with a benevolent new testament god in charge (maybe an old testament god).

Anyway, one day I just let go of the church and religion, and have never looked back (except for friendships). I don't seem to have much need for the supernatural, miss some of the social practices, especially singing together.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 3, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
The demographics are clear, sell your Bibles and Korans while they still have some value.
Good fiction has a long shelf life but in this case.....
Actually the Old Testament might do okay; plenty of sex, murder and betrayal.

People who identify themselves as atheist, agnostic or no religion by date of birth.

Before 1946 5%
1946 to 1966. 11%
1965 to 1976. 14%
1977 to present 19%

Maybe we would have been better off staying with the Queen. More pomp and circumstance to liven things up, healthcare for all, and 65% of Brits say they are non-religious and 39% don't believe in god.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 3, 2012 - 03:02pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk
jstan

climber
Sep 3, 2012 - 03:45pm PT
Considerable data suggests at death or other serious perturbation in brain function, very unusual sensations and thoughts appear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=Cpc-t-Uwv1I&v=UyyjU8fzEYU&annotation_id=annotation_973232

Some of those thoughts and sensations are even suggestive of popular models for what happens after death. Many people have survived these kinds of experience over the ages so these popular reports are actually what one would expect.

I see no evidence suggesting there is an afterlife so I take it there will be no reunion with loved ones either physical or mental.........but

at death I think it likely we will be thinking about someone we lost. That would be a reunion.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Sep 3, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
It may sound trivial to you, but it was the death of Ferne, my parrot. I saw him conceived. I still have the egg he hatched from. I raised him. I have feathers he molted throughout his life. He was (is) my baby as much as any human baby could have been. Possibly more. And he died unexpectedly on New Year's Eve. That pain was (is) indescribable


Someone expressed to me, when I joined ST, that everyone liked you, Crimpie, because of your propriety, kindness and good will.

I think he must have included sincerity , in that too.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Sep 3, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
Re-reading my post it occurred to me probably not everyone understands my "I see you" comment to Crimpers. That's taken from Na' vi (the film, Avatar, all the rage a couple of years ago) more or less meaning, I get it, I get you.

Great testimonials, by Tom and others. Wish it were all under one thread that's spelled correctly, though.

Tom, that's such a worthy, meaningful post you might add it to the other thread, too!

Crimpers, too, of course.

.....

On the other hand, atheist climbers are so increasing in numbers nowadays that eventually we might need two threads, lol - one for those who "love" atheist life or lifestyle, the other for those who merely "like" it. :)

It's all good.
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