Best advice how to get back stacked big Camelot ?

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Messages 41 - 60 of total 66 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
msiddens

Trad climber
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:18am PT
all great suggestions but with many I can't help but wonder what the cam will look like when you get it out. Will you EVEN want it still???
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:20am PT
It's hard for me to imagine a large cam getting stuck like this. I have always been able to get cams out if I could get my fingers on the lobes, and at least one side moved.

That thing must be way over-cammed, or sumpthin!

Alexey, let me know where it is! If I get it out, I'll get it back to you somehow!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:42am PT
This has happened more times than you think....
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 04:18am PT
I cleaned Alexey's cam on Sunday afternoon.
It was stuck at the start of Blind Faith p3, so I rapped in from the top of the Rostrum.
Along the way I met Shaun while he was leading that killer 5.11b hand crack pitch on the Rostrum.
Alexey's #6 Camalot - fairly stuck when I arrived
Alexey's #6 Camalot - fairly stuck when I arrived
Credit: Clint Cummins
After removing sling from cam lobes, and applying the ultimate tool &#...
After removing sling from cam lobes, and applying the ultimate tool (tire iron) - all lobes moving after 5 minutes!
After another 5 minutes, I had manuvered it through a path to freedom.
Credit: Clint Cummins

The tire iron worked great. I didn't bash with it - just used it like an oversized nut tool - twisting it between the cam surface and rock to move/free each individual cam lobe. Best tool I've ever used for cleaning stuck cams.

After I cleaned the big cam, it also cleaned a stuck #3 Camalot from the start of the 5.11b hand crack pitch on the Rostrum. This was tougher to get out - took 30 minutes. My technique was to continuously pull on the sling in the direction I wanted to move it, while using the tire iron to free one cam lobe at at time. Worked great.

That makes 3 freed Camalots in the past 10 days for me - got another #3 on 8/17, although that one was very tricky and required removing a loose block which was trapping the cam. Took over an hour.


Summary of technique I like best (I do not recommend using a hammer)


1. Phase 1 - get all individual cam lobes moving. Having a long nut tool or tire iron is usually needed. The trigger cables may be broken, but are not really needed. Sometimes you will get 2 lobes on one side moving, but still have the other 2 "locked". In this case, usually you have to rotate the cam which will help unlock the other 2.

2. Phase 2 - move the cam through a "wide enough" path to escape the crack.
Often it is hard to see exactly where this path is, so you may have to try several. If you know or can guess the path the cam took to reach it's stuck location, reversing the path is what you want to do. A technique that is often helpful in this phase is to use the long nut tool or tire iron to move one lobe at a time, while continuously applying a little force on the sling or stem to move the cam in a given direction.


Alexey should have his cam back soon!
Good luck on that narrowing 5.11a ow higher on the pitch - looks very rad.

It was a cool challenge, to get me out to such a spectacular place.
(Kind of like what I did on Saturday with Roger - we climbed to Dinner Ledge on the Column and rapped down The Odyssey, replacing the old bolts. Those were some very airy raps).
Even though I don't have the free climbing skills anymore to really enjoy The Rostrum the normal way, it was fun being a spectator and finding my aiding skills to be of use.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:15am PT
Cool thread.
Nice job Clint "Cam Retriever" Cummins
jaaan

Trad climber
Chamonix, France
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:37am PT
You're a good man to have around, Mr Cummins.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 27, 2012 - 08:18am PT
Aside from the cam how did you like Bli d Faith Alexey? Cool route, eh?
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Aug 27, 2012 - 09:59am PT
Speaking of stuck big cams, is that one on West Crack still there?
David Wilson

climber
CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 10:55am PT
Hats off to Clint ! We were surprised to use your guide to Index recently. You get around, stuck cam or no stuck cam.

Blind faith - pretty badass Alexey - trip report ?
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:15am PT
Nice job Clint ! I now have a warm fuzzy feeling to start my Monday....
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:23am PT
Kudos to the Cummins!

The tire iron worked great. I didn't bash with it - just used it like an oversized nut tool - twisting it between the cam surface and rock to move/free each individual cam lobe. Best tool I've ever used for cleaning stuck cams.

After I cleaned the big cam, it also cleaned a stuck #3 Camalot from the start of the 5.11b hand crack pitch on the Rostrum. This was tougher to get out - took 30 minutes. My technique was to continuously pull on the sling in the direction I wanted to move it, while using the tire iron to free one cam lobe at at time. Worked great.

The Prying one lobe at a time has been my secret weapon for a long time

and the Rostrum the place to booty huge cams. I rapped in from the top to clean a #5 from the last pitch of Blind Faith once. Used a ski pole with a cordalette and hook at the end to dig out a #5 camalot the rattled deep into the crack. There was another one back there too!

Peace

Karl
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 27, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
Awesome Clint! Aside from getting the booty, it's so much nicer to have the 'trash' removed from the cracks.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Aug 27, 2012 - 10:58pm PT
Nice job Clint, I tried to get that cam out with Alexey for a good half hour. Dropped my nut tool in the process. Guess I'll have to mill around in the bushes below Bears Reach to get another one again. It was really hard to try and work on the thing with one hand, on lead in a 5.11 offwidth. Figured it'd take some "special tools". Anyway, first cam I've ever had to leave behind.


How did the Odyssey look? Does it look worth giving a go or a was it a total grungefest? It's been on my list for a while. Can it be rapped. TR please!!!
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
Wow, Chad, trying to clean that cam on lead with one hand is so much harder than sitting on ascenders, with both hands, and a long high leverage tool like I was doing!

The Odyssey (I will try to post some photos later):
p1 - not sure because we rapped straight down and it comes in from the left. Easy and maybe dirty, probably.
p2 - steep 5.9 corner, a little dirty and maybe a little loose.
p3 - looks great (5.10a straight-in clean fist to 5.10d lieback flake).
p4 - 5.11b thin crack over roof to flaring hand jams? To Sudden Comfort Ledge (can rap from there). Looks OK but short.
p4 remainder to belay at base of big corner - I didn't look; it diagonals left and I was busy working directionals to reach Sudden Comfort Ledge.
p5 - big corner above huge roof - very airy, looks wide and a bit loose.
We did not find fixed belay anchors at the end of this pitch.
Should be possible to build anchors after traversing left under the
ending overhang to ledge on the left.
p6 - hand crack flake past old bolt (bolt probably helps keep rope from
getting into flake), to 5.10c thin crack with fixed pin.
Looks fairly nice. Hard move at end when crack closes; I cleaned the
last open part of the crack there.
p7 - move belay across 3rd class Brunch ledge up to below huge left-facing
and left-leaning 5.11 ow corner. Looks hard and fairly clean.
We didn't rap this corner - we rapped the next corner to the right.
p8, etc. - did not look at these. But I think they have newer bolts.
Possible to rap the route from here by placing some directionals with 2 60m ropes. A potential hangup flake that rope could run behind on p5 - I jammed some small rocks into it to prevent rope from going in there.
Would probably be a lot simpler/safer to traverse right to Dinner Ledge and rap the regular South Face route from there.
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2012 - 03:38am PT
Clint not only did amazing job of retrieving cam in 5 min - but than generously offer it back to me.
#6 Camelot after being abandoned at 5000 feet for two weeks -found a better owner, but new owner do not want adoption..
Clint rappel down from top of the Rostrum leaving several directional on this 3 very overhanging pitches. Than do magic with Tire Iron Nut Tool ( Clint you should patent it) and jumar back to top. It probably more adventures rappelling from Rostrum than from the Nose.
I had a lot of fan around this stuck camelot.
First time we climb Blind Faith with Chad , started late , spending a lot of time with Kauk-ulator and by the time we get to pitch 3 of Blind Faith it was 4pm, full sun there , up to 100 degree ( evening sun hit Blind Faith 3 hours earlier than Rostrum and we was not aware about it). I started this pitch walking the cam and it immediately stuck just less than 10 feet above belay. We both tried to get it back and gave up in about hour. It was only one #6 we had and non of us had desire to lead this pitch without #6 on scorching sun -so we bailed from it.
Week after armed with new knowledge from this tread and hammer - my wife and I came back. We did not retrieve the cam ( I tried other half-hour) but we climbed all route in the shade- and I can not complain- we get a lot of good climbing.
I can say that all 10d's ow in the Valley I climbed before and Generator crack is harder than this 11a BlindFaith pitch3 . P3 is splitter ow about 90 feet. Lower half( or more) is 6+ inches and about 60 feet up where it transition to 4" which is crux. It possible that 11a is correct rating if you doing something else than hand stack+ calf lock when crack transitioning from 5 inches to 4inches. With levitations it felt way easier that armbaring at this size .
After climbing this route -I like idea to climb Blind Faith to bypass of 3 Rostrum pitches and it does not felt harder. The first pitch of Blind Faith is more classy than crux pitch on Rostrum. And you can avoid Rostrum p5 with very hard 10d layback. The only downside of Blind Faith - you need to cary #6 in addition to Rostrum rack, but if you smoke you do not need #6 at all.
Gear beta for smokers is here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1321364&msg=1335491#msg1335491
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 04:24am PT
Great link to Coz's story!
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
Clint , it is a great story and I am curious what is "single tube chalk"?
cliffhanger

Trad climber
California
Aug 28, 2012 - 08:02pm PT


And they're not that trustworthy.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/204679/Origin-of-Tube-Chocks
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 28, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
Wow Clint - my hat's off to you man. As the Aussies say, "Good on ya" - it's nice to see people who believe in good karma. I'd say this got you more then a few points.

I have a couple trade routes in Red Rock that I will be getting after with a tire iron now after it cools off :D

Edit to add: Cool chocks! I love seeing the old gear, bashies chocks etc...I have a full knot rack that I had to build for Germany that I take out once in a while just for grins.

My main partner (Cosmic) has some great old gear on his rack, and it all still works just fine.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 9, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
Here's the 4th cam I unstuck over 3 weekends:
Formerly stuck cam at crux of Edge of Night. <br/>
Someone tried to pull i...
Formerly stuck cam at crux of Edge of Night.
Someone tried to pull it straight out, but there is a small lip inside the left side of the crack which prevents this.
I rotated it down, moved it down, then out.
Credit: Clint Cummins
I was fixing a rope for Roger at the top of Edge of Night (by scrambling to the top) and didn't see the cam until I had rapped down the route.
Didn't have the tire iron with me, but didn't need it. Being on ascenders helped a lot. Took 10 minutes.

Roger Brown rebolting at the Camp 4 Wall, 2012
Roger Brown rebolting at the Camp 4 Wall, 2012
Credit: Clint Cummins
Roger in action! Note choked up grip on the D5 hammer.
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