Best advice how to get back stacked big Camelot ?

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Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 14, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
What is the best technique to get stacked big Camelot ?
I made a bad placement moving #6 up and it stacked [ edited: I meant stuck]. One pair of lobes is still moving, but other is not. I spent half hour to get it back and gave up. Planning to go this weekend to try it again.
Would you share what you do to get such cams back ?
Some tricks, tools ?

Edit: I have no picture. I'll go this weekend and try to get it back using methods you advised.
If it worked I'll sent the author of the best advise a gift.
If it not work- I'll sent to the author of the best advice exact location of the #6

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Aug 14, 2012 - 10:46pm PT
pics?
Prod

Trad climber
Aug 14, 2012 - 10:52pm PT
I don't get the question?

Prod.
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Aug 14, 2012 - 10:54pm PT

I don't get it either...



EDITED:

I get it now...

The Cam is a 36D...



crasic

climber
Aug 14, 2012 - 10:57pm PT
In my best rusglish to english interpretation

I'm getting that he has a stuck (big) camelot and wants advice on how to get it out, he was pushing it up above him and one pair of lobes is stuck.

I know a guy (geologist) who brought along a rock hammer to booty stuff... might be useful?
Prod

Trad climber
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:03pm PT
I've never seen a stuck big cam. Too bad as they are expensive. Get in there and work the lobes and move it back and forth, you'll get it out.

Prod.
crasic

climber
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:07pm PT
The biggest I've seen is a stuck #3 C4, it was on the route for a few days before it got bootied.

Large horizontal slot under a block , the stem was turned INTO the rock from all the removal attempts, since It was pivoting slightly on one pair of lobes I knew it was removable but didnt want to waste time.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:09pm PT
Pull the trigger, and with the trigger pulled as far as it will go, hit it with a hammer from above, on top of the two stuck lobes.
rwedgee

Ice climber
canyon country,CA
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
previously posted
previously posted
Credit: rwedgee
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:50pm PT
I once freed a stuck'ish BD #5 using this method, which sounds a little goofy but it worked. It depends a lot on the orientation of the stem. Mine was sticking straight out, that is, dead horizontal, not up or down with the crack.

On toprope, get alongside the cam and then:

-Girth a sling to your harness.
-Clip this girthed sling into the cam. The sling that connects your harness to the cam has to be kind of short.
-Plant your feet on either side of the crack, retract the trigger as far as you possibly can, and start heaving straight back with the big muscles of your legs. Key that you keep that trigger pulled as far back as possible without snapping wires.
-I had to tweak the angle that I was pulling, kind of pulling up and down a bit by using my legs, before it finally came out.

ElCap's idea is simpler, I'd try that first.

Final thought - always look for crystals around/under the stuck lobes that you can shatter with your nut tool or similar. Sometimes it's not much surface area that is keeping the lobes where they are, though the bigger the cam the less likely this will work.

Good luck.
Farouk

Boulder climber
Sylvan Grove
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
Booty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Booty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Credit: Farouk
Greg Barnes

climber
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
Come back when it's at the coldest part of the day (daybreak usually), then try.

Seriously.
Pajamas

climber
Wilderness, Home
Aug 15, 2012 - 12:08am PT
I'd go up there with 4 nut tools, a hammer, and a hacksaw blade. A second set of hands would be freaking awesome too. Even if it comes down to running the hacksaw blade thru the lope rock contact, you still got a perfect big cam with one little flat spot.

Directissima or whatnot up at Chasm View had 4! fixed #4's on it when I went thru. Rumor is if you got 8 ft long arms it's always a producer.
Pajamas

climber
Wilderness, Home
Aug 15, 2012 - 12:12am PT
The sick thing with big cams, is you girth hitch slings thru the holes in the lobes, and get mad torque without wrecking the trigger wires. 4 nut tools hooked in the lobes and cranked.... tap tap tap up down sideways while constantly lobe pulling..

I'd get it in 2 mins max


or 2 hours
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Aug 15, 2012 - 12:14am PT
The trigger does not retract the lobes as far as they can go. Bring two nut tools with good hook ends or better, two fifi hooks and with some keeper cord on each. Hook each tool into the top hole of a stuck lobe, clip the keeper cords together and pull down---this will give you more retraction than you can get with the trigger.

I've gotten a bunch of stuck cams out this way while seconding with just one nut tool, retracting a single cam at a time and pivoting the cam just a little to work the retracted cam to a wider place.

Sometimes spitting on the cam/rock contact areas seems to help.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Aug 15, 2012 - 03:28am PT
My technique made Climbing Magazine's list of best Tech Tips ever. Bottom line, for most cam manufacturers, the trigger bar does not contract the cams to their smallest size. Squeeze the trigger bar as tight as you can and then move the stuck cam lobes a bit more with your fingers and the cam will usually come out.
Ben Emery

Trad climber
Australia via Bay Area via Australia...
Aug 15, 2012 - 06:10am PT
Sometimes spitting on the cam/rock contact areas seems to help.

I've had similar success with cam lube as a last resort.

Probably best left as an absolute last resort and cleaned up well lest it unpleasantly surprise the next climber, though...

I like the sound of the setup with the fifi hooks.
ec

climber
ca
Aug 15, 2012 - 11:56am PT
Best first advice: Start with an Editor.

'Tired of bad spelling/grammar that coulda been fixed before posting...

'just sayin' - ec
ec

climber
ca
Aug 15, 2012 - 12:54pm PT
le_bruce,
To the contrary, how I've gotten out stuck cams is to leash onto the trigger and yard on that; using your hand, all the weight from your daisy or a swing away with a hammer. The trick is to shock load the lobes into a narrower position and pull it out. Now, if the cam(s) is tipped against the opposite wall this still can work, unless prior futzing has made it unmoveable at all; there's got to be some, if so little, free-play.
rgold is on the right track, bhilden, come on Bruce, your fingers?
 ec
climbingcook

Trad climber
sf
Aug 15, 2012 - 01:19pm PT
Girth hitch a pair of slings through the holes in the stuck lobes, talk your partner into taking a factor 2 fall onto the slings.
surfstar

climber
Santa Barbara, CA
Aug 15, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
Post location of said cam and it will quickly be unstacked.
jfs

Trad climber
Upper Leftish
Aug 15, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
I've removed two different stuck #4's simply by dousing the rock/cam with water. Gives just enough lubrication and nothing to clean up...
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Aug 15, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
Stacked meaning "inverted" lobes? 2 lobes pointing up the crack and the other side pointing down?

Some dude was on the taco giving nice detailed info on how to do it with zipties.

He seemed to have his shitd dialed.
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
It is very shameful to live in this country for almost 20 years, and not able to formulate simple question to be understood. I even can not get your problem of understanding me until rwedgee posted the witty photo of Stacked Cams. Here the answer- phonetically "hands stack" and " camelot stuck" is sound same for me ( not for you probably) so I wrote them with same spelling and spell checker was fine with this. And thanks carsic for rusglish interpretation


I got a lot of good advices which going to try.

1. The most important - I did not know that "The trigger does not retract the lobes as far as they can go" [rgold] , [bhilden]
" you girth hitch slings thru the holes in the lobes, and get mad torque without wrecking the trigger wires" [Pajamas]
"Bring two nut tools with good hook ends or better, two fifi hooks and with some keeper cord on each. Hook each tool into the top hole of a stuck lobe, clip the keeper cords together and pull down---this will give you more retraction than you can get with the trigger.[rgold]
start heaving straight back with the big muscles of your legs [le_bruce]

2. If this set up is not sufficient -- add water or cam lube [rgold], [Ben Emery], [jfs]

2.a Return in colder condition [Greg Barnes] - good advice, but not applicable in my case.

3. Next step is with this set up "hit it with a hammer from above, on top of the two stuck lobes" [Elcapinyoazz]

4. Then "running the hacksaw blade thru the lope rock contact" [Pajamas]

5. If nothing help I'll try last resort - taking with me "The New Oxford American Dictionary" [ec]
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
BTW, ec- since you tired of bad spelling - when you wrote "unmoveable" did you mean "unmovable" ?
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Aug 15, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
ONe trick I've never tried would be to use a can of freeze spray, in order to shrink the cam.
http://www.techspray.com/product-info.php?pId=165&cId=10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_duster
http://www.microcare.com/c-11-duster-freeze-sprays.aspx
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PTR-7400/FREEZE-SPRAY-10-OZ-CAN/1.html
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse/Freeze-Spray/0000000474

Supposedly it might cool a part down by perhaps 40-50 degrees.
Then a 5 inch aluminum cam would temporarily shrink by
Delta = .0000125 x 40 F x 5 in = .0025 inch,
which should be enough to loosen it.
Ideally do this at the time of day when the crack is most expanded.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 15, 2012 - 04:30pm PT
Alexey,

I presume by "stuck" that the lobes which do not move are very tight, with the tip of the lobe in contact with the side of the crack.

I like the idea of the hammer on top best - feasible for such a big cam (not feasible for small stuck cams).

Putting full body weight on the plastic trigger bar could just break it.

Ideally, you would want to pull/push down on the stuck cam lobes in a "neutral angle" way that does not pull/push them too far to either side. You want to pull/push them straight down without causing camming action. So the hammer on top sounds pretty good.
Also maybe possible to hammer from the side/behind.

The alternative to pushing with a hammer is to pull with a sling/hook in a lightening hole in the cam lobe. The trick is to find a "neutral position".

Either way, the objective is of course to move them into a slightly wider place in the crack.

Usually I don't have a hammer with me, and my method for freeing the stuck lobes is to insert my nut pick between the cam and the rock and twist it hard. Often this will rotate the lobe slightly and move it a little. But if the tip of the cam lobe is already stuck against the far side of the crack, this method does not work.

Once all 4 lobes are moving, then the next task is to find a path to move the unit to a wider place in the crack. This is often tough to judge, especially if the cam is small and the position is deep.
ec

climber
ca
Aug 15, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
Alexey,
My bad...

Hey, I used to pre-tie my smaller cams with 2mm on the 2 bottom points of the triggers with just enough at the web hole on the shaft to clip into...like I said:
The trick is to shock load the lobes into a narrower position and pull it out.

 ec
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2012 - 04:42pm PT
I returned back an worked hard implementing your advices.
girth hitch slings thru the holes in the lobes, - it start moving with hammer help, but I scrued up with directions of moving and at some point camelot lobes get stopped on some constrictions and it completely stopped moving.
I tried to move it back - it not moving.
So it is still there , and since I give up I want give it to people suggested best advice. Sorry- I made cam position probably worse than it was originally
The place is not easy to get and it is not off the ground- you need to climb some
BTW - no one climb this route in a week , my bail binder was still there.

Best advises was given by rgold, bhilden, Pajamas, Elcapinyoazz and Clint.
Since bhilden, and Clint are local ( climb in Yosemite) - I am sending locations of cam to them
if rgold, Pajamas, Elcapinyoazz going to climb in the Valley and bhilden, and Clint not interested to go - I'll sent location to you too

thanks you for passing your knowledge
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Aug 20, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
Thanks for the offer Alexey. It has been a bit more than 40 years since I climbed in the Valley. With primarily summers for climbing, someplace higher, cooler, and less congested always won out. And inasmuch as it is a 6,000 mile round-trip for me, the opportunity to add a cam to my collection does not look particularly cost-effective.

Sorry none of our tricks worked for you. Every now and then you just have to kiss some gear goodbye.
nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Aug 20, 2012 - 05:23pm PT
When all else fails, get a bigger hammer. And maybe a chisel.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 20, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
Thanks Alexey - should be a good challenge!

I liberated a stuck #3 Camalot last weekend - in training?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 20, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
I'll be in the valley quite a bit in the next few months, but definitely won't have the time or desire to go after stuck cams.

Sometimes you lose one, just the cost of doing business.
Daphne

Trad climber
Black Rock City
Aug 20, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
I am so bummed this didn't have a positive outcome for Alexey. I was crossing my fingers for a rescue.

But there're so many good ideas in this thread-- maybe the cam was lost for the benefit of many?
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
thanks Daphne,
I have no regrets for this cam at all, having acquired new methods and Ideas.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 20, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
Usually I don't have a hammer with me, and my method for freeing the stuck lobes is to insert my nut pick between the cam and the rock and twist it hard. Often this will rotate the lobe slightly and move it a little.


Works for me too. I keep prying on the lobes alternately with the nut tool and loosen them.

For some cams, especially small one, a rapid vibrating back and forth movement sometimes makes magic

Peace

Karl
nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Aug 20, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
I just think of lost cams as "cheaper than a ski lift ticket" and I appreciate that I'm not a skier paying that every time I want to go on an outing.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 20, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
These suggestions seemed to have covered everything I've heard of, so I didnt add anything. I was Hoping it would have 'come out' better. At this point I'd get more aggro with the hammer.
generationfourth

Trad climber
Arizona
Aug 20, 2012 - 08:48pm PT
I just think of lost cams as "cheaper than a ski lift ticket" and I appreciate that I'm not a skier paying that every time I want to go on an outing.

Damn that's a great way to look at it. Especially since once I found climbing I pretty much gave up snowboarding with the exception of a powder day here and there.
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
the secret topout on the Chockstone Chimney
Aug 21, 2012 - 12:20am PT
Alexey, I had to hit a big green camelot with a hammer for an hour before I could bash it out. Alternating blows on each lobe until it skated out. Good luck.
msiddens

Trad climber
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:18am PT
all great suggestions but with many I can't help but wonder what the cam will look like when you get it out. Will you EVEN want it still???
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:20am PT
It's hard for me to imagine a large cam getting stuck like this. I have always been able to get cams out if I could get my fingers on the lobes, and at least one side moved.

That thing must be way over-cammed, or sumpthin!

Alexey, let me know where it is! If I get it out, I'll get it back to you somehow!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:42am PT
This has happened more times than you think....
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 04:18am PT
I cleaned Alexey's cam on Sunday afternoon.
It was stuck at the start of Blind Faith p3, so I rapped in from the top of the Rostrum.
Along the way I met Shaun while he was leading that killer 5.11b hand crack pitch on the Rostrum.
Alexey's #6 Camalot - fairly stuck when I arrived
Alexey's #6 Camalot - fairly stuck when I arrived
Credit: Clint Cummins
After removing sling from cam lobes, and applying the ultimate tool &#...
After removing sling from cam lobes, and applying the ultimate tool (tire iron) - all lobes moving after 5 minutes!
After another 5 minutes, I had manuvered it through a path to freedom.
Credit: Clint Cummins

The tire iron worked great. I didn't bash with it - just used it like an oversized nut tool - twisting it between the cam surface and rock to move/free each individual cam lobe. Best tool I've ever used for cleaning stuck cams.

After I cleaned the big cam, it also cleaned a stuck #3 Camalot from the start of the 5.11b hand crack pitch on the Rostrum. This was tougher to get out - took 30 minutes. My technique was to continuously pull on the sling in the direction I wanted to move it, while using the tire iron to free one cam lobe at at time. Worked great.

That makes 3 freed Camalots in the past 10 days for me - got another #3 on 8/17, although that one was very tricky and required removing a loose block which was trapping the cam. Took over an hour.


Summary of technique I like best (I do not recommend using a hammer)


1. Phase 1 - get all individual cam lobes moving. Having a long nut tool or tire iron is usually needed. The trigger cables may be broken, but are not really needed. Sometimes you will get 2 lobes on one side moving, but still have the other 2 "locked". In this case, usually you have to rotate the cam which will help unlock the other 2.

2. Phase 2 - move the cam through a "wide enough" path to escape the crack.
Often it is hard to see exactly where this path is, so you may have to try several. If you know or can guess the path the cam took to reach it's stuck location, reversing the path is what you want to do. A technique that is often helpful in this phase is to use the long nut tool or tire iron to move one lobe at a time, while continuously applying a little force on the sling or stem to move the cam in a given direction.


Alexey should have his cam back soon!
Good luck on that narrowing 5.11a ow higher on the pitch - looks very rad.

It was a cool challenge, to get me out to such a spectacular place.
(Kind of like what I did on Saturday with Roger - we climbed to Dinner Ledge on the Column and rapped down The Odyssey, replacing the old bolts. Those were some very airy raps).
Even though I don't have the free climbing skills anymore to really enjoy The Rostrum the normal way, it was fun being a spectator and finding my aiding skills to be of use.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:15am PT
Cool thread.
Nice job Clint "Cam Retriever" Cummins
jaaan

Trad climber
Chamonix, France
Aug 27, 2012 - 05:37am PT
You're a good man to have around, Mr Cummins.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 27, 2012 - 08:18am PT
Aside from the cam how did you like Bli d Faith Alexey? Cool route, eh?
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Aug 27, 2012 - 09:59am PT
Speaking of stuck big cams, is that one on West Crack still there?
David Wilson

climber
CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 10:55am PT
Hats off to Clint ! We were surprised to use your guide to Index recently. You get around, stuck cam or no stuck cam.

Blind faith - pretty badass Alexey - trip report ?
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:15am PT
Nice job Clint ! I now have a warm fuzzy feeling to start my Monday....
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:23am PT
Kudos to the Cummins!

The tire iron worked great. I didn't bash with it - just used it like an oversized nut tool - twisting it between the cam surface and rock to move/free each individual cam lobe. Best tool I've ever used for cleaning stuck cams.

After I cleaned the big cam, it also cleaned a stuck #3 Camalot from the start of the 5.11b hand crack pitch on the Rostrum. This was tougher to get out - took 30 minutes. My technique was to continuously pull on the sling in the direction I wanted to move it, while using the tire iron to free one cam lobe at at time. Worked great.

The Prying one lobe at a time has been my secret weapon for a long time

and the Rostrum the place to booty huge cams. I rapped in from the top to clean a #5 from the last pitch of Blind Faith once. Used a ski pole with a cordalette and hook at the end to dig out a #5 camalot the rattled deep into the crack. There was another one back there too!

Peace

Karl
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 27, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
Awesome Clint! Aside from getting the booty, it's so much nicer to have the 'trash' removed from the cracks.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Aug 27, 2012 - 10:58pm PT
Nice job Clint, I tried to get that cam out with Alexey for a good half hour. Dropped my nut tool in the process. Guess I'll have to mill around in the bushes below Bears Reach to get another one again. It was really hard to try and work on the thing with one hand, on lead in a 5.11 offwidth. Figured it'd take some "special tools". Anyway, first cam I've ever had to leave behind.


How did the Odyssey look? Does it look worth giving a go or a was it a total grungefest? It's been on my list for a while. Can it be rapped. TR please!!!
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 27, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
Wow, Chad, trying to clean that cam on lead with one hand is so much harder than sitting on ascenders, with both hands, and a long high leverage tool like I was doing!

The Odyssey (I will try to post some photos later):
p1 - not sure because we rapped straight down and it comes in from the left. Easy and maybe dirty, probably.
p2 - steep 5.9 corner, a little dirty and maybe a little loose.
p3 - looks great (5.10a straight-in clean fist to 5.10d lieback flake).
p4 - 5.11b thin crack over roof to flaring hand jams? To Sudden Comfort Ledge (can rap from there). Looks OK but short.
p4 remainder to belay at base of big corner - I didn't look; it diagonals left and I was busy working directionals to reach Sudden Comfort Ledge.
p5 - big corner above huge roof - very airy, looks wide and a bit loose.
We did not find fixed belay anchors at the end of this pitch.
Should be possible to build anchors after traversing left under the
ending overhang to ledge on the left.
p6 - hand crack flake past old bolt (bolt probably helps keep rope from
getting into flake), to 5.10c thin crack with fixed pin.
Looks fairly nice. Hard move at end when crack closes; I cleaned the
last open part of the crack there.
p7 - move belay across 3rd class Brunch ledge up to below huge left-facing
and left-leaning 5.11 ow corner. Looks hard and fairly clean.
We didn't rap this corner - we rapped the next corner to the right.
p8, etc. - did not look at these. But I think they have newer bolts.
Possible to rap the route from here by placing some directionals with 2 60m ropes. A potential hangup flake that rope could run behind on p5 - I jammed some small rocks into it to prevent rope from going in there.
Would probably be a lot simpler/safer to traverse right to Dinner Ledge and rap the regular South Face route from there.
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2012 - 03:38am PT
Clint not only did amazing job of retrieving cam in 5 min - but than generously offer it back to me.
#6 Camelot after being abandoned at 5000 feet for two weeks -found a better owner, but new owner do not want adoption..
Clint rappel down from top of the Rostrum leaving several directional on this 3 very overhanging pitches. Than do magic with Tire Iron Nut Tool ( Clint you should patent it) and jumar back to top. It probably more adventures rappelling from Rostrum than from the Nose.
I had a lot of fan around this stuck camelot.
First time we climb Blind Faith with Chad , started late , spending a lot of time with Kauk-ulator and by the time we get to pitch 3 of Blind Faith it was 4pm, full sun there , up to 100 degree ( evening sun hit Blind Faith 3 hours earlier than Rostrum and we was not aware about it). I started this pitch walking the cam and it immediately stuck just less than 10 feet above belay. We both tried to get it back and gave up in about hour. It was only one #6 we had and non of us had desire to lead this pitch without #6 on scorching sun -so we bailed from it.
Week after armed with new knowledge from this tread and hammer - my wife and I came back. We did not retrieve the cam ( I tried other half-hour) but we climbed all route in the shade- and I can not complain- we get a lot of good climbing.
I can say that all 10d's ow in the Valley I climbed before and Generator crack is harder than this 11a BlindFaith pitch3 . P3 is splitter ow about 90 feet. Lower half( or more) is 6+ inches and about 60 feet up where it transition to 4" which is crux. It possible that 11a is correct rating if you doing something else than hand stack+ calf lock when crack transitioning from 5 inches to 4inches. With levitations it felt way easier that armbaring at this size .
After climbing this route -I like idea to climb Blind Faith to bypass of 3 Rostrum pitches and it does not felt harder. The first pitch of Blind Faith is more classy than crux pitch on Rostrum. And you can avoid Rostrum p5 with very hard 10d layback. The only downside of Blind Faith - you need to cary #6 in addition to Rostrum rack, but if you smoke you do not need #6 at all.
Gear beta for smokers is here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1321364&msg=1335491#msg1335491
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 28, 2012 - 04:24am PT
Great link to Coz's story!
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
Clint , it is a great story and I am curious what is "single tube chalk"?
cliffhanger

Trad climber
California
Aug 28, 2012 - 08:02pm PT


And they're not that trustworthy.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/204679/Origin-of-Tube-Chocks
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 28, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
Wow Clint - my hat's off to you man. As the Aussies say, "Good on ya" - it's nice to see people who believe in good karma. I'd say this got you more then a few points.

I have a couple trade routes in Red Rock that I will be getting after with a tire iron now after it cools off :D

Edit to add: Cool chocks! I love seeing the old gear, bashies chocks etc...I have a full knot rack that I had to build for Germany that I take out once in a while just for grins.

My main partner (Cosmic) has some great old gear on his rack, and it all still works just fine.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 9, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
Here's the 4th cam I unstuck over 3 weekends:
Formerly stuck cam at crux of Edge of Night. <br/>
Someone tried to pull i...
Formerly stuck cam at crux of Edge of Night.
Someone tried to pull it straight out, but there is a small lip inside the left side of the crack which prevents this.
I rotated it down, moved it down, then out.
Credit: Clint Cummins
I was fixing a rope for Roger at the top of Edge of Night (by scrambling to the top) and didn't see the cam until I had rapped down the route.
Didn't have the tire iron with me, but didn't need it. Being on ascenders helped a lot. Took 10 minutes.

Roger Brown rebolting at the Camp 4 Wall, 2012
Roger Brown rebolting at the Camp 4 Wall, 2012
Credit: Clint Cummins
Roger in action! Note choked up grip on the D5 hammer.
sonoran climbing gear

Trad climber
AZ
Sep 19, 2012 - 11:17pm PT
Check out sonoranclimbinggear.com We have a device coming out called the cam-extractor... Never lose another cam. [photo
Credit: sonoran climbing gear
id=264079]
sonoran climbing gear

Trad climber
AZ
Sep 19, 2012 - 11:18pm PT
Another picture
Credit: sonoran climbing gear
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 19, 2012 - 11:27pm PT
Repeating my comment from the other thread, the cam extractor looks good for a cam that went slightly out of reach into the crack. The pitch above the Harding Slot on Astroman sometimes has #.5 Camalots pushed deep in the initial overhang if the leader weights the rope higher.

But usually when I see a stuck cam, one or more of the cam lobes are "locked up", and just being able to pull the trigger bar is not enough to free it.

The cam extractor might also be used like a "stick clip" to place a cam high on a route with a hard start where the crack is out of reach. I can't think of an example at the moment, but I'm sure there are a few.
sonoran climbing gear

Trad climber
AZ
Sep 20, 2012 - 12:33am PT
I agree with you Clint, when the lobes are locked up it makes it pretty tough. You would be pretty surprised by the amount of cams that I have seen "rescued" by one of these devises though. Given the price of cams, it can be a handy little device have around. The cam-extractor was designed with two purposes in mind, being able to extract cams that have walked too far into a crack and to extend one's reach (as you pointed out). We are just launching the updated version of this device so your thoughts are definitely appreciated.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Sep 20, 2012 - 08:27am PT
If the cams aren't moving at all it's time to hammer on it. But before resorting to that, my technique is to keep tension on the cam by putting a sling in my mouth, then see which cams are stuck work on them with nut tool, if you can get them to move at all, you're pulling with the sling so the cam should move a little. Before doing this though, you need to retrace how the cam got to where it was and remove it the same way. You may be trying to extract it through a narrower space than where it was inserted. If you have to use force, then don't worry about damaging the trigger, it can be replaced. That's all I have to add.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 20, 2012 - 04:57pm PT
No hammer needed, but a tire iron works well to unstick the lobes.
Or a long screwdriver would be a lighter tool, though it's a little easier to generate torque with an angled handle like on the tire iron.
My partner likes to bend a screwdriver to make a cleaning tool, so that could be a nice combination for this purpose (if the bend was near the handle instead of near the blade).
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