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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 10, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
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Let me preface my remarks with the following disclaimer: I am not rad.
Having gotten that out of the way let me add that while not rad I am not bad. In fact I consider myself closer to rad than I am to bad. Ok then, here goes:
A few days ago I climbed the Red Dihedral on the Incredible Hulk with a long-time friend and partner. Both being well into our fifties we decided to hike in the night before and bivy, get an early-ish start, do the climb, bivy again and the following morning do Outguard Spire on the way out. Neither my partner, we’ll call her D, nor I had climbed the route before, though we’d both visited the hulk years prior. D climbed Positive Vibrations a few summers ago while I’d done an early ascent (second or third) of The Sun Spot. We didn’t expect to have The Hulk to ourselves given all the hype its received lately and its close proximity to the road. Whatever, we figured, we’ll deal…
What we hadn’t counted on was the rudeness of the two women we overtook after only a few hundred feet. “You can’t pass, we have to hike out and drive back to Tahoe today.” were the first words to cross their lips when we caught up to them atop the third pitch. Huh, an interesting greeting I thought. Maybe you could put it in gear then…
I didn’t say that because D’s a much nicer person than I am and I didn’t want to piss her off. Plus I’m working on being a nicer person myself.
And that’s the way our day went, D or I would spend ten to twenty minutes leading a pitch, bring the other up and spend another forty-five waiting for them, on and on. And on…
I won’t name them, that would be mean and I am working on being a nicer person. I’ll just refer to them as K and K, from Tahoe. If they read this they’ll know who they are. And so will their friends. I’m not working on being that nice a person.
Anyhow, the two Ks not only remained oblivious to the obvious- you two are moving twice as fast as us, this is a big ledge, why don’t you pass… but never once offered so much as a smile or a friendly word. It was really quite sad. In all fairness though, I should add that most of my dealings were only with K2 since K1 was doing all the leading.
Meanwhile, out to our left, on PV Tony was doing a marvelous job! I’ve never met Tony and had no real interest in him or how marvelous a job he was doing but his partner sure let everyone know: “Nice job Tony, looking solid! Yeah man! Way to go!….”
“Did you say something Steve?” D asked me. She was about sixty feet into her lead, waiting for K2s rather large ass to move.
“Tony’s doing a wonderful job,” I said. “Keep climbing.”
At this point several things happened, one was the rope snapping tight in my hand. I later told D that it was my fault she laughed, hence fell and therefore she didn’t get a demerit. The second thing to happen was Tony’s partner shutting up, which was my goal. The third was K2 fixing me with a baneful glare, about which I couldn’t care less.
D and I got to the 3rd class ridge a few seconds after the two Ks. As luck would have it it was a few seconds shy of beating them to the final pitches. K1 informed me that she got HER beta from HER GOOD FRIEND- DAVE NETTLE. At this point she paused for dramatic affect, as if she expected me to faint, or congratulate her. Whatever. ( At this point the author should inform the reader looking for useful information about ascending said formation that some will be coming up shortly and I’ll let you know.) anyhow ‘HER GOOD FRIEND DAVE’ she informed me, told her to do the .10a corner pitch to avoid the chimney of choss. I groaned. I lay down in the dirt. I told D I just couldn’t watch any more and to wake me up when it was over, D hit me, somehow it was less painful than watching Ks 1&2 flail and thrutch and moan and wank.
So if you are looking for some useful information to climb The Red Dihedral this is your moment. Somewhere along the route I found a copy of the Supertopo version (We were using Croft’s topo since he’s our buddy and we goet his guide books for free- he autographed D’s but not mine. I think he likes her better.) and in the
Supertopo Wac says that the .10a corner is a ‘bad choice’ in real life I thought is was the third best pitch on the route. D told me to put in some gear 2/3 of the way up and it would have been nice except we left the 5 inch piece in her garage. But it was still way cool. I pulled over a little ledge the there were the two f*#king Ks, still wanking it out so instead of waiting, again and risking my head blowing up I did some new and most likely unclimbed crack out right on the north side which was ok but not as wonderful as the rest of the route.
I guess the attentive reader will have gathered by now that I didn’t think too highly of the Ks 1&2 and the reader would be right. They didn’t even have the manners to thank us for our patience. In fact, the whole point of this narrative is to remind every one that there will always be some one faster than you and slower than you and that good manners are free. They cost nothing to use. Thank you.
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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
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We blew off Outguard. By the time we got there clouds were building and my dog was sick of hanging out at the base. the walk wasn't too bad for D. She has this formula all worked out where since I'm 40% heavier I get a 42lb pack to her 27. For some reason I still haven't figured out she still gets half the food.
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generationfourth
Trad climber
Arizona
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Aug 10, 2012 - 11:07pm PT
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That's annoying. I hate dealing with people's ego and pride on climbs. Just keep trying to have a good time.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 10, 2012 - 11:28pm PT
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No photos, but you painted a very vivid picture! Please let me never be a K!
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Aug 10, 2012 - 11:34pm PT
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welcome to tahoe wherern the bitches are too cool...
its called the upside down smile.if you turn them upside down they smile.
i really dont get it.something in the water? altitude?
its like CU Next Tuesdays everywhere no nice girls here.
import then...
"three feet tall no teeth and green,move to squaw and be a queen
and dream of nettles on the screen"
was it kathy and kate? they are so slow i would of punched both of em
Whillans style.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
the secret topout on the Chockstone Chimney
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Aug 10, 2012 - 11:41pm PT
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Somewhere in Tahoe, a K is getting very huffy right now.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Aug 10, 2012 - 11:50pm PT
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Good job Steve,
D seems to be a good influence, and I guess we've both probably grown "nicer" and more tolerant; 15 years ago we probably would've each cordially invited a K off the porch swing with a piece of flaming 4mm tag line for such behavior.
Scott
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Aug 10, 2012 - 11:50pm PT
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F the K's.
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Aug 11, 2012 - 12:12am PT
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Roadie, that was f*#kin' hilarious.
(Dude, what are you doin on here?)
And you are rad. And sometimes bad.
Good stuff.
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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2012 - 12:17am PT
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Thanks for the nice feedback one and all. Wow Scott! the last time I saw you it was 1999 and we's just done the PO!
Yeah, f the Ks! or at least feel sorry for them. D called today to cangradulate me on my patiance and ask about Keeler. We have a new rule D and I:anything steeper than 45 degrees I get to be the boss. I think it'll be a good rule.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Aug 11, 2012 - 12:36am PT
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ha, ha! this is a really fun read for sure.
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Aug 11, 2012 - 01:09am PT
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Hate the bad vibes but nice TR
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t-bone
climber
Bishop
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Aug 11, 2012 - 02:02am PT
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haha. all too common scenario, but glad it worked out.
too bad the hulk can be such a zoo these days.
we got stuck behind 2 parties on PV. they were cool enough, but really slow, causing us to bail halfway up. I'd take the bitchy K's over slow cool dudes any day!
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 11, 2012 - 02:08am PT
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Thanks for the reminder that patience and good manners are a virtue.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 11, 2012 - 02:12am PT
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That was a really entertaining TR, thanks for posting Roadie.
Did Tony end up crushing PV? Did the K's make it up and off and back out before dark?
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 11, 2012 - 02:50am PT
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Am I the only one who found the OP a bit self-righteous? You are hard. Compared to me and compared to the girls. So cut some slack. Get up earlier or don't climb a route someone is already on. Or ask politely to pass, and if refused accept the refusal politely. You don't have to trash people for climbing at whatever their speed is.
My story. On Cathedral Peak (you can tell I am not hard) with my daughter and her boyfriend. Get to start at same time as a couple. Since they are two I let them go first and wait. Then while belaying first pitch another two guys show up. Hardmen no doubt. They start up first pitch while I'm still belaying my leader. They say they are taking a different line when I protest - which they do for about a 60 feet. Didn't ask, just dropped in. And after the first 60 feet they are on our route and crossing their lines with ours and with the first party. They then proceed to slow down the whole conga line for at least 4 pitches until they finally pull ahead. All up they added probably an hour to our climbing time as we waited for them to get out of the way at each belay. Now if they were really hardmen they would have soloed. If they were gentlemen they would have waited or taken any one of the other 10 routes on the face. If they even wanted to try to appear polite they would have asked. But no. Just climb over peoples lines, bugger up the belays, and act like deserving hard men.
I can say, no doubt sometimes people who pass are way fast and I'll give them 10 minutes of my time if they don't slow me down (or drop sh#t on me) later. But more often then not the guys who are racking-up while droppings names about their last hardman route and asking to pass end up ruining my day by climbing more or less at the same speed I am. But how can you tell until you let them pass? I say first one on the route gets to make that call.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
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Aug 11, 2012 - 03:07am PT
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Hi Steve.
Your experience, as related, sounds rather frustrating. I imagine the weather was nice, however.
You should consider screaming this next time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrG-uoVJHwk
I have been missing your (published) poetry. What gives?
Considering a move back to Telluride. Now, that would be weird. Maybe we can go skiing.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Aug 11, 2012 - 06:28am PT
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Roadie, I have to agree with you. Refusing to let obviously faster parties past you is one of the most selfish acts in climbing. Unfortunately it's a trait that British 'Alpinists' tend to suffer from in the Alps. They complain bitterly of Frenchies and other continentals, often guides, barging past them with no consideration blah blah etc etc. Never once do they question WHY it happens to them so regularly. Congratulations on your sangfroid, I doubt I could have remained so calm in those circumstances.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Aug 11, 2012 - 06:43am PT
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Loved it Roadie. Hilarious!
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Gearhead
Trad climber
Novato Ca
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Aug 11, 2012 - 09:46am PT
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Hey, It was good talking to you in the parking lot at Twin Lakes, We had just gotten down from Matterhorn Peak and you were leaving for the Hulk. Sorry you had to deal with attitude on your climb.
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Tahoe climber
climber
Davis these days
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Aug 11, 2012 - 11:17am PT
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Nice TR!
They should have let you pass for sure.
I like your style man
TC
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Manimal
climber
SLT, Ca
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Aug 11, 2012 - 11:29am PT
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That last crack out on the right has been climbed. Nice clean airy finish though.
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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2012 - 07:06pm PT
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I had no strong feelings re Team Tony one way or another but i hope they crushed, I just didn't want to hear the play by play. And yes I still have some work to do on the whole 'nicer person thing', I'm working on it.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Aug 12, 2012 - 07:15pm PT
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Awesome story man! I've had similar scenarios with women teams from Tahoe and Berkley as well. I always just thought it was me. Too funny man.
Way to get after it and have a fun time out in the High Country.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Aug 12, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
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you seem nice enough.
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Aug 12, 2012 - 10:10pm PT
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Roadie, Good job - that was real patience up there !
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 12:47am PT
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Riley, you and I would have blown past em and left their whimpering far below!
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 01:15am PT
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It is. Seems like the work of an ego that believes ability = status. There is never any doubt where people's abilities are, it becomes apparent after watching one minute of someone climbing. When you see climbers crushing rock below you just get outta the way.
Seems like a Euro thing, being rude and getting in people's way. If you are really the sh#t nobody passes you because you're cruising, the way it should be when you choose the right route for your ability.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Aug 13, 2012 - 01:47am PT
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roadie, extremly entertaining tr. having gone into the hulk 2 weekends ago, i was astonished to see the crowds on the hulk as we hiked in. when my partner and i got to the base of red dihedral the next morning, there were 3 parties ahead of us, the first moving at a snail's pace. luckily, the party just ahead of us offered us a topo a beeline, and even offered us a big cam for the route. it turned out to be a great alternative. we climbed behind a steady, if not fast, newly wedded couple that swung leads and laughed at all my jokes and songs. great people, fun to share the rock with.
but climbing on the hulk is NOT a wilderness experience...anymore.
however, the next day, my partner and i did the southeast arete of outguard spire, and DID get an awesome wilderness experience on an adventurous, steep, and challenging route. nobody seems to climb on the west side of the valley. except for some people hooting at us, we felt alone in the canyon that day.
also, instead of bivyng near the base, with minimal water sources, we stayed at maltby lake, and although it is ten more minutes of hiking, we had the lake all to ourselves for 3 days. ss
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 01:54am PT
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Outgaurd looks sick! As does the reggae pole and everything else over there
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 01:57am PT
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They must be from Truckee.
All hail the Bishop hard man.
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jahil
Social climber
London, Paris, WV & CA
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Aug 14, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
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Nice one dude, great read. You are pretty nice in my book.
steve
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pvalchev
Social climber
Mountain View, CA / Calgary, AB
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Aug 15, 2012 - 12:53pm PT
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The Hulk is a freaking zoo now, and it makes me really sad because I, like most here, adore the place. I'd like to see tighter enforcement on permits and mandating the use of wag bags or the like for overnight trips, for starters. Either that or install and outhouse up there and charge people more money to helicopter out the buckets a couple of times a year (they do this in the Bugaboos in Canada for example).
I had never gone car-to-car before but 2 weeks ago my friend and I went to do PV car-to-car - what we found once we got there made me want to puke. There were at least 18 people on the Hulk not counting us, 10 of which were on on PV's first three pitches (two if you count the first 2 pitches as one..). We were the only ones car-to-car that day, so you do the math on how many permits are available for overnight stay there and how many people didn't obey the limits.
I'm all for reducing / removing regulations but what I saw truly disgusted me, and it still bothers me 2 weeks later. Several extremely loud and obnoxious parties, too. I think I see better manners in the Bay Area gyms... depressing.
(Oh, we climbed Beeline instead. Great route, the two 5.10 variation pitches are amazing... good thing too, as the thunderstorms rolled in so it was good to do a quicker route and get out of there)
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Aug 19, 2012 - 01:05pm PT
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Super entertaining write up. Not sure why people are so rude. If there is ever someone much faster than my party I let them go ahead unless we are a few pitches from the top, or behind another slow party. Not letting someone much faster pass would be fairly awkward- having someone tailgating you up the route. "My good friend Dave Nettle said..." that's pure gold. I will use that some day, sounds hard core.
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ruppell
climber
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Aug 19, 2012 - 01:19pm PT
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Roadie
You know the old saying "Nice guys finish last"? Well in this case it's true. You should of just passed them without saying a word.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Aug 19, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
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To quote a famous line from the recent past by Ron Anderson, "Chirst!"
But the mountains ain't a golf course. Rude people abound everywhere, in civilization and in the boonies.
Ever try to "play through" on the links? Here's where the true as#@&%es congregate. Slow play will get you on the clock in a professional golf tournament. But who's willing to join the USCA or the PCA and follow rules?
I'd rather follow fools and kick back and ridicule all day. It's free entertainment, commonly called "cheap thrills." And you don't need to get mad, so technically you are still "nice." Ricicule is a tool used on fools to get them to think about their behavior, but it's usually over their heads, contain tiny brains.
You could hurl epithets but those only antagonize. Throw rocks and they might just be motivated to move faster, but it's doubtful. They are not "conscious" as they move and lose the freedom of the hills as a consequence. Probably worrying about what their "good buddy" Nettle will say about what they say about the climb. Shallow, unconscious beauties, they are.
That was a finely told t. r., I must say. You rock! Just for sheets and grins, I would like to hear D tell this story, as well. POV is obviously different, but she sounds like she's way more cool than either K could possibly be. Her reaction to your reaction is what I'm trying to figure.
And the story of the Leaning Tower approach...schwing!
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Aug 19, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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Am I the only one who found the OP a bit self-righteous? ,
no.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Aug 19, 2012 - 02:18pm PT
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Am I the only one who found the OP a bit self-righteous? ,
no.
Strangely enough, no. But you are in the minority, I think.
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Aug 19, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
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Was going to say more, but realized everyone supporting him goes to the hulk, good, stay there. There's nothing better in the Sierra.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 19, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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I recommend avoiding all-together privilaged white people between the ages of 23 to 30 (myself included). Often obnoxious, with a feeble grasp of the way the world works, they run solely on anxiety and extreme insecurities. Entitlement and a monster ego are often at play, for never will they address the true issue - they are scared on a route - and it comes out in all manners. Some dudes scream at their lady partners, some people don't let faster teams play through (misery loves company), some others just hole up and don't say a word.
The worst experiences I've ever had with other parties always had a few things in common:
 some kind of couple or opposite sex dynamic (I hear from both sides, guy was being a prick to women nearby, women didn't let you pass... same sexes understand eachother better, I guess...)
Young, white, with new shiny gear (like me)
route was at or slightly above their limit
Climbed rarely outdoors (a 5.8 chimney is a big ego check for a "five ten gym climber" and can cause some... drama....)
The best experiences climbing I've had with other partners I've noticed:
-Sex is irrelevant
-they were people who climbed almost every day
-the route was 'in the bag,' if not easy
This has happened on Big walls, single pitch routes, tahquitz... you name it. The best experiences are always the locals who don't bullshit themselves, they are there because they LOVE IT and don't care if there are others on the route. Only a fool would jump on Cathedral Peak if crowds gave you a headache. I'm an incredibly obnoxious talky dude (many on ST will attest to that) and have no qualms about talking to anyone in earshot - some people *really don't like it.*
Sometimes I can read the situation, and if I get that real piercing gaze (or the 'if you were my husband you'd be on the couch' thing) I keep my mouth shut. But if you say hello back, you're pretty much f*#ked, because I'm going to try to make you laugh/try to get your attention(maybe??? parents didn't hug me enough???? who knows????) over the course of X pitches.
So. Just nod and be nice. I'm gonna talk your f*#king ear off. To avoid people like me, train a little bit. I don't climb too hard, just jump on something you have to be moderately good at and I'll never be in your way!
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Degaine
climber
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Aug 19, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
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Funny tr, thanks for posting, I enjoyed the read.
Passing is a finicky exercise for both parties. My friend an I recently passed a party of two on an alpine climb, and although we were much faster they still waited 25 minutes at a cold belay between the time they decided to let us pass and the time their leader could start climbing again. All was cordial and nice.
Regarding comments about the French and the Euros, I've climbed for years all over the Alps, passed and been passed, and never once met a rude party. While skiing down Mt Blanc's north face I came across a guide from Switzerland who was a dick, but that's another story. For those of you with a chip on your shoulder regarding the Euros, perhaps you should take a step back and chalk it up to a cultural misunderstanding.
That Dave Nettle comment is funny. Don't know why people need to say that kind of crap. My guess is nervousness, fear, and in some way/shape/form trying to justify being there. On the top of Stately Pleasure Dome one time a few years ago I met this girl who blurted out, right before trying to clip into my anchor without asking, that she know the Huber brothers. Didn't even say hi first!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 19, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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I say first one on the route gets to make that call.
I say people be cool to each other and not look for excuses to be a c.u.n.t.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Aug 19, 2012 - 04:40pm PT
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I've been the passer and the passed.
When I pass, I tell the passed to just let me get 2 pieces ahead of them, then they should just keep climbing as usual.
Since were the badasses making the pass, we should be able to work around them.
I adhere to the same protocol if you pass me.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Aug 19, 2012 - 04:55pm PT
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A few years ago my wife and I climbed Scenic Cruise in the Gunnison. As we descended the approach gully we saw a team about three pitches up. When we caught them they were still about in the same position. Immediately they invited us to pass them. I continued to the next belay and my wife followed. I expected the leader to set off immediately behind her. He didn't, he stayed put. I led the next pitch... and he still didn't move until my wife had started to climb. As we topped out an almighty thunderstorm started. We were soaked in minutes. No sign of the others. We assumed they must have rapped off. If this was you, thank you!
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 23, 2012 - 07:33am PT
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Roadie, I don't know you, but I love you. I think I know who K1 might be...and Im not surprised by the behavior, nor the name dropping, ball-cupping, worship of the nettle.
Four-foot-tall,
teeth of green,
move to Tahoe,
become a queen.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Bump
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