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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 7, 2012 - 02:38am PT
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I'm graduating from college next summer (hopefully!) and I am hitting the road for as long as I can. Major time will be spent in the Sierra, but longer drives will also be in store (Squamish, Indian Creek ..etc) I am good at working on cars, but would much prefer to drive it instead of being under the hood, especially far away from home (and tools). If I get something soon I can work on it all year before taking off...but again would prefer not to... I have been looking into westfalia vanagons primarily, but I am concerned about reliability. Any other suggestions / what does everyone think is the best option???
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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1990 Subaru Legacy Wagon of course.
Arne
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Or for a classier entrance, the last year made, 1993 Volvo 240 Wagon with leather interior.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I put 250K dirtbag miles on my '85 Subaru GL wagon. Removed the back seat and built a sleeping platform into it. Cush.
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bullfrog
Trad climber
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Another thumbs up for the 240.
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skywalker
climber
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I bought a "cheap" fleet cargo van (astro, no rear seats) with relatively low miles. Tricked out the inside my style and it lasted till I got married and had kids. I sold it dirt cheap cause the situation dictated it had to go. I lived out of it months at a time!
Just sayin...
S...
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2012 - 02:52am PT
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I'm liking these options. Way cheaper than an actual camper vehicle. Pull out a couple seats, make a platform...boom. Time for craigslist scanning. Keep the ideas coming, thanks!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Dodge Sprinter van, but these are pricey new or used.
Failing that, Toyota Taco with a hi rise shell/pop top camper? Reliable, fuel efficient in a 4 cyl.
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~kief~
Trad climber
state of Awakening
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Van down by the river
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generationfourth
Trad climber
Arizona
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i think for mpg, reliability, and flying under the radar a toyota sienna, or honda odyssey would be perfect
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Dodge caravan, can get them cheap, plenty of space to sleep in, V6 has enough power to tow.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Go for a four cylinder if you want to save money.
.....
If you have dough for a newer rig, the Ford transit.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Another vote for the Volvo 240 Wagon. An inexpensive and parts plentiful vehical that is reliable and easy to work on. They get great milage, have amazing cargo capacity, full length sleeping, decent off road ability, and very fine hiway characteristics. AND, they will run forever.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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If you are going solo and driving a lot of miles a small hatchback, Honda civic, stick, I have a 96, gets almost 40 mpg CTif driven carefully
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nice rig eKat !!
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ruppell
climber
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A van is the way to go. Astros are OK but have some issues and suck on gas. If you want something reliable and cheap look for an 86-89 toyota van. Mine has 317,000 on it and I've put on 150,000 of those myself. Replaced the alternator three times. And the brakes once. I know plenty of others with close to the same milage that still are going strong. If you pay a little more you can find one with actual 4 wheel drive(meaning a transfer case). Super easy to customize and way incognito if you get a cargo model.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Need a price range brobrahdudeguy.
That's really going to be what decides your options. Sure, a Sienna or Odyssey would be a good choice and reliable, but you're not likely to find one worth driving for under 10k either. Sprinter would be pimp...if you have a spare 20k laying around.
Westy? No. Having owned and lived in one, they're great...as long as you have the Subaru 2.1 in it instead of the always broken, underpowered POS VW engine. Otherwise, plan on limping over passes and having 1-2 stranded roadside episodes per year, plus another 10-15 days a year turning wrenches. In addition, because the body and amenities really was sweet, and hippies love em, the ones in decent shape commmand a premium.
Nothing fun about those 240s, but the engine was basically a tractor engine, they are pretty long lasting. No idea how hard they are to work on, not bad from what friends say (but good luck getting oddball, old euro parts in BFE Utar). That's a big upside of the Detroit fleet car stuff (i.e. Astro), you can get parts for it pretty much anywhere and they're cheap, tons of them in the pick n pull yards for used parts, etc. Those 6cyl Astro engines were pretty good, trannies not so much.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
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Hahaha I think Locker has a winner there.
I have about 10 grand saved up for a car, but the less I have to spend on the car the longer I can stay on the road.
eKat that van looks pretty appealing. I like the soccer mom cover up. The "secret dirtbag van"
Elcapinyoazz are westys with rebuilt engines a decent option or are those engines still crap? I've been looking into buying one with a blown engine and swapping either a Subaru or ford engine into it. Is it worth the work? Or should I stay away?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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The rebuilts VWs engines...I wouldn't touch one myself. The Suby swap is semi popular, but it is a big project and involves more than just sticking a different engine in it, like you'll need to get the conversion parts to mate it to the tranny, mess with the wiring harness, etc.
There are some good resources on the web.
10k, I'd get the Honda or Toyota, and be happy to never turn a wrench on it, sell it after you're done and get most of your money back (or drive it into the ground if you don't mind driving a minivan as your daily). Or if you need part of that 10k for living, go the Astro route, just find one that already had the tranny rebuilt.
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Enthusiast
Boulder climber
Port Townsend WA
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A Ford Ecoline van is very simple, cheap, durable and has a lot of space when the back is cleared out.
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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As someone who's done that lifestyle in a Honda accord , and now an older Toyota 4x4 , I can say having the 4x4 has made so many more roads possible . Dirt roads , forest service roads , mining roads , steep roads , whatever , the little Toyota has never let me down .
You can sleep in the back with a camper , and get about 24mpg with a 4 cyl. There's no substitute for ground clearance , and 4hi and 4low .
Pllus , only lesbians drive Suburu's right ?
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2012 - 12:30pm PT
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And plus , only lesbians drive Suburu's right ?
LOL!
Truck with a camper is a good options as well. Ideally i would like more than two seats, but I guess I could get by with the small rear seats on some tacomas.
What about a mazda mpv 4wd? Yeah they look kinda dumb, but they have good clearance, 4wd, and can take the seats out to sleep in. Anyone know have any experience with these?
Edit: Damn those pictures make that look like a really good option!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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For me, the conversion van with hightop has been very good, except of course for the poor gas mileage(averaged 15mpg on last cross-country trip, gets 13 in off-highway). I have had an '88 GMC one for the last 2 years(but alas...it won't pass inspection now and what will I do?)
I need a little more room, because I really do live in the thing from November-April, carry inventory for the chalkbags and hair accessories I sell, and also have a dog. Plus, I am not a young guy who is willing to suffer a bit or else drink themselves into the denial of how cramped they are for space.....
But - the things that make me feel a conversion van (with all but front two seats ripped out, and platform installed) are a good way to go are:
 Tinted windows keep out some of the heat from sun during the day, and also allow for privacy. I could change clothes parked right next to people and they could be looking right at the van and have no idea.
High Top gives enough room so you can sit on the platform to read or do whatever, and still be comfortable. My platform was set high enough I could slide 17 inch tall bins underneath.
The conversion vans have extra insulation compared to regular vans or other vehicles. This makes for great comfort on cold winter nights, and also helps keep interior heat down in the sun. If you have a dog, this is really important, since there are times the dog must stay behind.
Very easy bivy in places others can not. Especially if the conversion has those fancy window shades.
Fairly secure, as far as vehicles go, and because they look the way they do, aren't going to attract the attention of thieves thinking construction gear, as with a cargo van. The tinted windows, and under-platform storage also mean people can't peak inside and see what's available for the taking.... Opportunity IS the reason most thieves act. Reducing opportunity is important, when your world possessions depend on it.
You can cook inside when weather is sucky.
I have seen plenty of people living out of their vehicles the last two years and they make the best with what they have, but having enough space that you don't have to maneuver stuff from one section to another just to sleep is really good.
Sure, I would like to have a Sprinter, but they are SO expensive. And that's without outfitting the interior.
A Westie/Vanagon? It's the romantic's vehicle, but the reality is less rose-tinted.
One thing - if you go with a cargo van that has been used commercially and has no interior work - definitely put in extra insulation and flooring with covering to help keep out the cold.
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mwatsonphoto
Trad climber
los angeles, ca
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Hey eKat,
What year is that? 4 cyl or 6?
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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One other thing: Don't forget the gas. On a road trip it really adds up and can severely shorten your trip. But you have to balance up front cost and MPG -- do the math to avoid the surprises.
This is really good advice . My g/f and I did a cross country motorcycle trip this summer , my bike gets 40-45 MPG , and I fill up about every 150 miles . Each fill up would only cost about $13 , no big deal , that's a bargain right?
By the end of the trip my gas bill was almost $700 dollars , you don't really think of the cost when it's only $13 at a time , but it adds up .
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Well I really like Vans, big or small -but this is what i've been using the last 5 years
4x4 - 16 city 19 highway
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I had a Volvo 240 that I lived out of for a while.
Great car, wish I still had one.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
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Thanks for the advice everyone! I knew this group would have some great personal insights. I'm leaning towards either a van conversion or tacoma with a camper shell now.
Dan a motorcycle would be rad! But a. i have no throttle control and b. I have way too much sh#t to bring along the way.
FRUMY that setup looks cool but I can't afford that MPG.
I like the high clearance of the tacoma and the 4x4 capabilities...but my parents actually have an old Honda odyssey that I might be able to buy from them and convert...hmmmmm thinking time. Keep the ideas coming though, thanks a lot!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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DMT I often see quite the opposite: Subris - the condition of thinking your Subaru is infallible with it's AWD so you drive too fast.
My Subaru is usually on CC at 9 mph over the speed limit. Some people may get pissed at me when: I drive somewhat fast up the grade, but slow down going over the summit and down the other side when it's snowing/icy. Of course these were the people going slow up hill but speed up going downhill in slippery conditions - dumb. Or they get pissed because I'm not tailgating the person in front of me, so they pass on the right so they can tailgate the guy in front of me and get there 2 seconds faster!
Then you got the boy racers in their WRXs with big wings on the back and LED lighting under it. And of course you do get the granolas with the Outbacks going super slow in all conditions even when they should be speeding up to have momentum to get through a snowbank left over from a plow...
Anyway, good advice so far. I would highly prefer a van to live in. You can live in a van, anything else mentioned you just survive in. I'd rather get the better mpg and space of a minivan and do more hiking, than deal with crawling into the camper shell of a Toyota P/U and having to shuffle stuff around all the time to sleep, eat, drive, climb (I've done it). If you do get a p/u with a shell, at least get a storage box for the roof to get a lot of your stuff out of the way. I wouldn't want to live out of a station wagon (suby/volvo), unless I set up a tent base camp somewhere at each location.
You can find Toyotas 2004+ and Hondas 2001+ used under $10K now. The Hondas can have tranny issues though. Get a Toyota with about 100,000 and it will go 200,000 probably no problem. 27 mpg highway, very reliable, and ok driving and clearance.
A full size van with a 6 cyl will give you more room at the expense of mpg.
A conversion van would be nice but not good mpg. Class B camper vans are great but always expensive.
I've never owned a Astro, Aero.
A Dodge/chrysler minivan would be cheaper but less reliable and probably not any cheaper over the life of how long you keep it.
If your parents have an Odyssey I'd go for that. You can fold the 3rd seat flat most of the time but if you want to give a few friends a ride you can.
You'll lose a little in terms of 4WD, but you can use chains for snow, and carefull driving will get you to a lot of places. You have good space, mpg, and reliability.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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There's a guy in El Portal that fixes up Salvage Title Subarus and sells them from 3,000 to around 6,000, depending what he has. I know three people who have purchased from him and they love their cars and have never had a problem. I've talked to him and he's a cool old dude. If you're interested, email me and I'll track down his contact info.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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What a bunch of fig eating yuppies.
Get a full size truck with a topper and you'll be living large while the other knuckledraggers shoehorn their stuff into clown cars.
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Cole
Trad climber
los angeles
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There is only one answer to this question: TOYOTA PREVIA, get the super charged 4 cylinder and it will last forever. Mine has 180K miles on it and it's my daily driver, runs like a freakin champ. Pull out the middle row seat and you're left with the back seat, which fold up to the side when you need em to. Because the engine is mid mounted, under the driver, you have more room inside compared to a Sienna. I could go on forever but I won't, just make sure you check em out before you buy anything else.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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khanom
Trad climber
The Dessert
Aug 7, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
But your trip will be half as long 'cause you're getting 12MPG
I get 22 mpg on the highway with a 6 cyl F150 with 270K miles.
Not all full size trucks are 8 cylinder.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabond movin on
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Toyota Previa?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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As I posted on another thread a while back... we got screwed in the US out of the updated Toyota Previa. I was cruising around Africa last year in one. They still make them, you just can't get them in the US. They have them with 4wd, we did some pretty burly mtn roads. And diesel, they get 30 mpg. The perfect climber road trippin vehicle.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2012 - 07:48pm PT
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Wow fet that does sound perfect
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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I have way too much sh#t to bring along the way. Jettison the sh#t and just keep what you need.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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+1 for the Sienna. 1st generation w/o seats 3l engine gets 25mpg overall.
Stick a cot in it and stow underneath, good on dirt roads too.
The Ekat's sister ship!
And she'll give blueprints for blackout shades too.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Every morning about this time
she get me out of my bed
a-crying get a job.
After breakfast, everyday,
she throws the want ads right my way
And never fails to say,
Get a job Sha na na na, sha na na na na
Sha na na na, sha na na na na,
but, 1969 VW Bus. Modifed peace emblem on the front.
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Two wheel drive is fine until the first time you get stuck .
There is not a lonelier feeling than getting your impervious vehicle stuck way out in the middle of God's country . It is humbling and scary , and a great learning experience .
I highly recommend it .
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Grippa
Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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I own a 97 Toyota T100 extended cab 6cyl 5spd with a 6x5ft bed, and love it. Get's about 22-24mpg on the highway, and does very well off road in 4hi or 4lo. Feels like I'm driving a tank when heading up Little Cottonwood in the winter to go skiing as well. Highly recommended truck!
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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The ultimate car camper boat combo.
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seekthereason
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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My buddy has one of the sweetest minivan conversions I've seen. Dodge Caravan AWD, bought for 1K, tricked out with sleeping platform and storage area (see photos). He can probably sell it for 2.5K now.
Van has storage on the driver's side, and there are four removable plywood panels (for easy gear access) making up the sleeping platform.
And if you're in the Bay . . . http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/3176607670.html
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climbingcoastie
Ice climber
Sacramento, CA
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I’ve been looking at getting a vehicle to do the same thing and looks like the Sprinter is getting some competition soon. Ford is suppose to be bringing the Transit van (not Transit Connect) to the states for 2013. Not sure if that is for this fall or sometime actually in 2013. It has a diesel engine and could possibly have an AWD option.
Dodge/Chrysler is talking about importing the IVECO Daily, also a diesel. No word on an AWD option.
At the least it might bring down the price of the Sprinter as they wouldn’t have the market cornered. So keep the fingers crossed that these aren't just rumors.
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Pllus , only lesbians drive Suburu's right ? i'm a lesbian??? that explains why i love to munch so much carpet
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John M
climber
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Hey Bruce, what is your thinking on those roof top tents if you don't mind my asking. They seem like a pain in the butt when camping longterm in one place. If you need the vehicle to go some place then you have to pack up the whole tent. Why not just have a separate tent which you can leave in the campsite? I do like what dingus did with his van though. That seems easy to close up. His looks like the Mt Baker..
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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When I was 19 I got this old 1950 Chevy flatbed truck with cattle racks. I used plywood inside the racks and corrugated tin for the roof and built a shack on the back. Got the truck for $200 and spent less than $100 on the home made camper. Lived on the road for 6 months on about $300 cash and working at odd jobs for less than minimum wage.
It was a pretty darn comfortable life style.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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easy to get privacy shades for the Subaru cargo space, so one can catch some Z's without being hassled?
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Francisco
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whatever u end up getting, ur gonna need a gun rack and a hula dancer for it
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MisterE
Social climber
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When you need fuel efficiency AND the ability to get to the rad back-country limestone:
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Van for living.
But his has worked for long travel for me:
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2012 - 03:03am PT
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Those roof top tents are cool, but aren't the greatest for hiding from rangers ;)
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2012 - 03:08am PT
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I won't be doing it all the time obviously, but it's nice to be able to if need be.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Believe it or not a 4x4 tacoma with a six cylinder gets the same milage as my tank, but with only half the interior space.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Another option though maybe out of the budget is a Diesel pickup. If you want room and real 4x4. From about 1995 to 2002 the Ford F250 had the bulletproof 7.3L diesel that lasts forever. You see them on Craigslist with 300,000 miles. They get about 19mpg highway. You could put a shell or preferably a small camper. A big camper will take the mpg down to about 15mpg.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
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Believe it or not a 4x4 tacoma with a six cylinder gets the same milage as my tank, but with only half the interior space.
Hmm that's good to know, considering you do have way more room.
Getting 20+mpg would definitely allow me to stay on the road longer though
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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No, the Transit...a larger version, is not yet available stateside but supposed to be in the next few years. The Transit Connect is the little one you're seeing.
The Connect is just too small and gets worse mileage than the Euro versions of the larger transit with the turbo diesel I-4s. That's what I'm waiting for...the larger one with a turbo diesel. They get ~35mpg hwy, where the gasoline connect only gets about 25.
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jmes
climber
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It looks like the regular euro transit (a staple in much of Europe, and particularly the uk) is coming in 2013. It looks to be a different van, though, with rumours it willbe built on the f150.
Although I wouldn't write the connect off entirely. Sme euro climbers have done conversions on these and on the similarly sized VW caddy.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2012 - 05:34pm PT
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A slightly larger connect with a turbo diesel would be sawwweeettt!!!! I quiver in fear of the cost though :(
A "honnold style" van would be pretty cool
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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A full size van is going to give you more room and be better off road than a minivan. But if you can score an Odyssey off your folks I'd say it's a no brainer. Way better mpg. Keep it in their name for lower insurance.
I'd take the odyssey. Take out the middle seats. Fold the back seat down but keep it accessible so I could bring friends or climber hitchhikers if needed. Black out the windows with something easily removable so I could still see easy while driving. Put in a curtain divider behind the front seats, so I'd have privacy/stealth but could get into and see out the back easy. Put a roof box on and keep light, less valuable stuff up there like clothes. Get a big bouldering pad for a bed. Have a fold out table, chairs, and a screen tent/canopy for an outdoor kitchen/living room. Pack my guitar, djembe, and iPad for rainy days.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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i hope that your homeless sojourn
cures you of your cultural conditioning
as demonstrated by your thread title.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2012 - 11:16pm PT
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DANG silver if that has shag carpet I'm all over that hahaha
Norwegian I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say, but hopefully by the end of my trip I will...
Fet, when I'm home (in a couple weeks) I'm going to check out the odyssey and see if it is big enough for me to sleep in (i'm 6'4") and maybe start making a platform for it
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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'81 El Camino with astro turf on the payload
or the old Audi allroad circa 2002 (get a stick shift)
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 10, 2012 - 04:20pm PT
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I've got a Sienna and you could sleep in the back easy, but I don't know about the Honda.
A platform is great because you have a lot of storage under it, but I would design it so it breaks down to a couple pieces so you can move it to the center and use the back seat. I could easily see climbing at say Yosemite and you meet up with some folks and you all want to drive to the Needles, or Kings Canyon, or Smith Rock etc. etc. If you can still use the 3rd row seat you can seat 4-5 people and then THEY can pay for your gas to your next destination.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Aug 10, 2012 - 04:44pm PT
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cars are tools.
life does not happen under their job.
they deliver you,
to your life.
and in them we sleep,
to awaken to life.
you do not live in your car.
americans are lost in their evolutionary pursuit.
they believe that sleeping is living.
i hope that your crooked journey
teaches you to unlearn everything that our culture has taught us.
cheers.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Aug 10, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
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my case substantiated,
i often awake in my car.
i get up and unwrinkle my spine
because it is usually a rental,
and smooth out my digs
and walk into a meeting upon
which hinges millions of dollars.
i cannot tell you of the many times
that my colleagues have witnessed me
climbing out of my back seat bed,
only to look upon me funnily in
the 5-star conference room as we
duel for pastries...
or better yet,
i awake in the ford at the footstep of my
new york jobsite, just as the crew is half-a-cup
deep; i exit the vehicle, tassle my hair and
hit the outhouse cause there's no boulders around.
car sleeping is not desperate,
instead it is logical.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2012 - 05:38pm PT
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Norwegian now I hear you... Deep man, I feel ya.
Fet that is a good idea. I need something long, but the multipart system should work great. I agree that having use of the back seat would open up more opportunities.
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lars johansen
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Aug 10, 2012 - 06:17pm PT
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Let's see....if money is no object, Sportsmobile! If it is, I'll take the Toyota Van.
lj
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2012 - 06:21pm PT
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Money is definitely an object... No free ride for me
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 10, 2012 - 07:02pm PT
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Usually the seats come out of mini vans real easy. Build a plywood deck and cover with furniture foam then go with real sheets and blankets. Good storeage under the bed. I have several different compartments under the deck in my Town and Country AWD. String assecory cord arround the windows and hang curtains. I also have a curtain between the front seats and the back. helps big time with light polution and privacy when sleeping in truck stops and wall marts, etc.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 10, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
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I have privacy glass on the Town and Country. Can't even see the curtains from the outside.
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Scott Thelen
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Aug 10, 2012 - 07:50pm PT
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Get a $1000 Subaru with a 2.2 engine put another $1000 into fixing it.
Have a good time you f*#king dirtbag ;-]
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| Messages 1 - 73 of total 73 in this topic |
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