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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Mar 30, 2015 - 09:48pm PT
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I missed the carbon fiber question earlier.
I used carbon fiber tubing for the portaledge I made in about 2003. The main issue I found was that the ends at the corners tended to blow out when the ledge was flagged above a haul bag. When the ledge hung up and wanted to twist into a pretzel, the aluminum corner fitting plugs had enough leverage to delaminate the end of the tubes. I solved this by epoxying 2 inches of stainless steel tubing both inside and outside of the tubes at the corners. Wrapping the ends with carbon tape and resin might have also worked, but I was too lazy to try that.
The FISH ledge still behaved better when flagged above a pig, because the cro-moly steel frame was so springy, it would pretzel up, and then spring right back. My carbon fiber frame was so stiff, it couldn't pretzel much at all.
Carbon fiber materials, especially those with minimal resin content, and maximum fiber content, are notoriously brittle. The carbon tubes I used were intentionally pretty thick, and thus heavier, than what might seem necessary. In a windy storm, thin-walled carbon fiber might get slammed against the rock and crack. Again, the cro-moly is very resiliant and almost impossible to permanently deform or crack.
As an aside, I once rode a windy storm out in a Metolious ledge with aluminum tubes, and one of them got dented and then it bent. Also, the aluminum ends were very easily damaged. Again, cro-moly seemed to be a better material.
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belayerslayer300
Trad climber
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Mar 31, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
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Quick question somewhat related. I have a runout customs ledge (Luke is the Best!) with fly but also really dig the BD deluxe cliff cabana ledge fly because of the windows and doors. Has anybody tried the BD cliff cabana fly on a runout customs ledge and know if it fits well?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jul 27, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
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Having just recently been carrying a BD double ledge. I can tell you, that a super light double would be amazing.
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Fish_Products
Big Wall climber
FishProducts.com
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Jul 28, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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CMac: Yeah, as most climbing gear gets lighter and better, many portaledges have been getting heavier and heavier in the last decade. An extra ten pounds in some cases, which makes a big difference on the approach, climb, and descent.
Really hoping that all ledge manufacturers will get inspired by Runout Customs (and the original A5 Double Ledge) and start making ledges that are light and designed for Yosemite / Zion wall where most big wall ascents are made. The current super heavy ledges are still a good choice for your next trip to Baffin or if you are over 6 feet tall and want luxury.
Chris, they are not going to get inspired. Ledges weigh a ton now because most parties are hauling a sh#t show and the light and fast ethic is gone. Have you looked at El Cap lately?
Light will also equate to expensive. Ledges already cost too much, and the lighter they get the more they will cost.
Lightweight stuff is not going to be as durable, so when you flag your carbon fiber ledge and slog up Luring Fear, you'll end up with a a one wall ledge. Value and longevity are the name of the game in ledges.
Design a ledge for Yos and Zion? What are you talking about... those places feature the shortest approaches. Best ledge you could take for Yosemite is a sheet of plywood and a bivy sack, and probably still weighs less than a BD Double.
The reality is you can have a ledge at about any weight you want, if you are willing to pay. Most people are not going to pay, and for the three guys in the US that want a super light ledge and money is no object, there are people that can make that happen for you. If (using our FISH Ledge for comparison) trimming a pound and a half off your ledge is going to make the difference, more power to you. For most people, that pound or two will not mean squat, and they are certainly not going to pay for the weight savings.
From our Ledge FAQ:
"How much does your ledge weigh"
The single ledges weigh about 8.4lbs and 12.5lbs with the fly. Our Doubles weigh about 9.3lbs and 14.5 with the fly.
http://fishproducts.com/faqs/ledgefaq.html
Here is a comparison review Big Wall Kate wrote a while back including the specs for a few ledges:
http://fishproductsblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/portaledge-review.html
See us on the web at:
http://www.FishProducts.com
http://fishproductsblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/FishBigWallGear
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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The coffin is the only acceptable name. I'm glad that we agree. I'm going to start duct taping an old rocket box. Wheels?
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Nov 12, 2016 - 03:39pm PT
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I am back to designing portaledges after a 20 year hiatus, and came across this thread. My new design is lighter, stronger and more rigid than the current commercial offerings, which, with the exception of the Fish steel ledge, are all derivations of my 1990's design.
More information on my new D4 ledge design will be forthcoming, but for the record, I did develop a 6 pound ledge (including lightweight fly) back in the 90's for Catherine Destivelle, which she used on her historic first ascent on the Dru, solo. A version of the same design was also featured in a design exhibition some years later: http://www.johnmiddendorf.net/portaledgeturin.html
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