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jstan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2012 - 12:06pm PT
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More often than not when you hear of a problem it involves either rappelling or people on a descent. Psychologically people are all amped for an ascent and their faculties are fully engaged. Trouble is expected. Coming down people are like a horse headed for the barn. The effort is all over. We assume no trouble ahead.
The new climber may actually consider rappelling the first phase of climbing to learn, since it is so easy. But it is the part of climbing with no redundancy. Any rappeller who does not check everything twice amd begin planning for the possible stuck rope, is in a dream world.
Going up you can generally rectify any mistakes, getting off route, manageable falls, whatever, because the error is visible in time and you know the ground. You get off route on a descent you are committed. Suddenly the barn is not the prospect. The prospect is a huge roof below which you have no idea where the next anchor may be. Or the weather is getting only worse. Plus you just came down the ground never looking it over to see whether you could get back up, with the energy you have left. How many of us get beta on both ascent and descent? Once on top the barn becomes the whole point. It is all over.
As far as simple risk is concerned we have climbing exactly backwards. We should start at the top do the descent and only then do the ascent. It is the same for the experienced and for the noob. Very democratic.
Tom Rohrer may be one of the few people who have it right.
When you have a single anchor, how many of us leaves gear for the last person? Few if any.
There is nothing we can do?
In fact, we are the only people who can do something about it.
Edit:
I have not been back to the Gunks since 86. I hear that few people now walk back along the top and prepared anchors are present. Bad idea I think. Gives people exactly the wrong message and greatly increases overall risk.
Never mind it increases the amount of time a party ties up a route.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Jul 27, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
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Excellent ideas.
Direct experimentation could resolve many safety issues. For example the Death Knot, is it really worth while? Find a ledge and do some test pulls. Hang ups seem to happen only when the rope is making a sharp bend over an edge. I think a fast pull will carry any knot past the ledge edge and hang ups elsewhere, as the momentum keeps the rope going thru rough spots and the speed means the rope bounces off the wall reducing contact with hazards. One way to reduce the chances of a hang up is to use twin ropes, but instead of 2 separate ropes use just 1 rope, twice as long, doubled up. Then there is no knot to catch on the pull.
Dee ee's solution to the edge hang up problem: "always extend the anchor to below the topmost edge if you can, no matter how many runners or pieces of chopped off rope it takes. Get the rap point over the edge. "
Poll and compile information. For example I don't think anyone has had a deadly hang up because of knots tied in the end of the rope. The potential problems of a knot in the ends of the rope are far far less than the danger of rapping off the end. In low wind conditions any rope jam will be close to the fall line and it would be a simple matter to swing over and unjam it. Only with strong winds will there be a serious problems with the ropes getting stuck far off the fall line and then, even an unknotted rope is in danger of jamming. In strong winds you need to have all of the rope with you (clip the ends to the harness), to be fed out as you go.
Experiment on out of the ordinary scenarios. Such as descending a thin single rope that may even be new and shiny slick. Ways to add extra braking. Try the wrap the rope around the thigh trick.
A little experimentation while on belay would show how dangerous the Dulfersitz rappel really is. Change your orientation a bit and the rope can easily ride up out of the crotch and you're airborne.
Have results confirmed or refuted by other experimenters.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Jul 27, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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I hear that few people now walk back along the top and prepared anchors are present.
Nobody walks off. People rap off the top of Horseman, and the walk off from there is very short and very easy.
Again, thread drift.
About a month ago there was a discussion on Gunks.com. about a fixed anchor. The anchor in question was about 20 feet below the top of Son of Easy O, and it was the typical ragtag collection of old pins, irretrievable cams, and ratty slings, and it allowed people who have a 70 meter rope to toprope the route. Someone decided to clean all of this out and place three good pins and new slings. He also said that he will replace the slings as needed and offered to upgrade, monitor, and periodically replace and fix as needed other such anchors.
I think the inevitable result of this approach is that people will less inclined to check anchors. Why should they if someone else is installing safe anchors and periodically checking them? This seems to be what most people want - at the 'Gunks, anyway. Of course, this is the norm at sport climbing areas, but these anchors won't be bolts and lower offs; they will be slings, trees, random bits of gear, etc.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area , California
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Jul 30, 2012 - 06:36pm PT
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Two climbers were killed yesterday in Canada while rappelling and this bring the number of rappelling fatalities just in the past few weeks to more than 6 people in North America
CANMORE — Two climbers who fell to their deaths from rock face near Canmore were friends and co-workers from Calgary.
The bodies of the two climbers were recovered yesterday after falling nearly 100 metres while rappelling from a steep wall on the west side of Heart Mountain Creek east of Canmore.
The woman and man have now been identified, according to RCMP.
“The individuals have been identified and the medical examiner’s office are now engaged with the families,” said staff Sgt. Brad Freer with the Canmore RCMP.
“Really it’s a tragic accident. There is no foul play,” he said.
The pair were found laying a few metres apart in a dry creek bed by hikers who witnessed the fall.
“They were rappelling together on a single rope,” Freer said. “It was a rappelling accident. They were coming down the mountain on an anchored rope. The rope was anchored up top.”
Active mountaineers describe rappelling as “one of the most dangerous” backcountry pursuits.
Whereas sport climbers latch onto bolts that have been pre-drilled into the mountain, repellers often rely on their own equipment and anchors.
“You’re depending on one anchor,” said Darren Vonk, who has been sport climbing for six years. “There’s no safeguard.”
Heart Creek Trail is a popular hiking, scrambling and rock climbing area used by 100 to 300 hikers on any given day on the weekend. Climbers expressed shock Sunday. “It’s awful to hear about something like that,” said climber Adam Lindenburger. “It sends chills down the valley.”
Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/rock+climbers+died+fall+cliff+were+Calgary+workers/7008920/story.html#ixzz229FDYtZS
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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jstan writes
A number of wonderful writers are also climbers. If the guidance included well written descriptions of some of the really scary rappelling situations we have gotten into, it would be an account no one could put down. It would be a page turner. Its message would be that you can never tell what kind of a bind you will get into.
I'm currently writing a comprehensive book on Rappelling, to be published by Globe Pequot Press.
How to avoid the common mistakes that lead to rappelling accidents is a big part of the book, and I analyze the most common scenarios in detail,along with some specific cases.
As John Long mentioned, if you study rappelling accidents you see the same three of four scenarios played out again and again.
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
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Feb 14, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
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oh phuq, that smarts.
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jstan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
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Facing the other way, he might well have broken his spine. Paraplegia.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Feb 14, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
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Only a fool leaps into a rappel. I hope that "whack" taught him something.
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Stevee B
Trad climber
Oakland, CA
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My wife and I were climbing Sunday at Dozier Dome and noticed the majority of folks rapping down rather than doing the walk-off. Granted, the walk-off was a pain, but I've noticed I've become more and more averse to rappelling in recent years.
Neither of us are strange to it, we both canyoneered a ton over the years, perhaps more than we've climbed. I used to think of rapping as a lot of fun. It's just started to feel to me like it's not a justified risk as much as it used to. I think it's the aggregate of seeing so many stuck ropes, rope burns, loss of control, rockfall, etc. Anyone else noticed that drift in their descending preferences? Not taking a position on the Dozier raps, it's clearly the sensible choice and situation appropriate, just got me thinking.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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but I've noticed I've become more and more averse to rappelling in recent years.
I have always had an aversion to rappelling, but more of an aversion to iffy down climbs. I like to hike, so if there is a walk off I take it. I like North Dome gully, the Kat Walk not so much.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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I used to think of rapping as a lot of fun. It's just started to feel to me like it's not a justified risk as much as it used to.
The risks in rappelling can be easily managed. The risks while actually climbing can not be managed as easily. I suspect that rappelling accidents more frequently result in death when compared to accidents that occur while actually climbing. This disparity amplifies the apparent risk of rappelling.
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DrDeeg
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Oct 16, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
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I love the walk-off from Dozier Dome. A lot more interesting than a rappel (or an abseil as the Brits call it).
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Oct 16, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
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For sure, for sure, DrDeeg-who do you think you are Dozier or something like that?
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