Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 36 of total 36 in this topic |
vic ticious
Advanced climber
yosemite, ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 15, 2002 - 12:37am PT
|
Over the weekend there were 4 injuries due to rock fall in the 5 open books. On Saturday 04/13/02 three climbers were injured when a bowling ball size block struck a belayer on the last pitch of Selaginella, then continued to pummel both the leader and belayer of a party on the 2nd pitch.
On Sunday 04/14/02 a block was dislodge from the top of Commitment and struck a climber leading the first pitch.
The good news is that every one involved was wearing a helmet. The bad news is that even wearing doesn't guarantee your safety.
Climb under other parties at your own risk!!!
|
|
radical
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2002 - 07:08am PT
|
5 open books is nothing compared to the loose choss you will see in the Rockies. On Raptor, for example you could kill people on the last pitch(or any pitch) very easy. Everything is loose and tettering on it's end.
The difference is most people know this and are carefull!!!!!!!
So I say: tell the f*#ken idiots, who arn't watching what there doing, to be more f*#ken carful with loose rocks.
Any climb is a death trap if you have ignorent as#@&%es climbing above you...
radical
|
|
Jay
Novice climber
Bay Area
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2002 - 03:13pm PT
|
There's tons of mellon sized boulders lieing on a steep angled bed of loose dirt and scrub at the top of the 5 open books. Even for the experienced traveler it's easy to send one of those potential killers screaming down at the helpless climbers below.
The rule of thumb is: be first in line. I don't climb there unless I'm absolutely certain no one is above me. I've had 20 lb rocks whiz by at terminal velicity when on Commitment and Munginella. And I haven't been back since.
|
|
radical
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2002 - 05:42pm PT
|
that's bullshit Jason....people can watch where they step and what they grab hold of...It is insane to say you can't help knocking rocks off on people below you.....you can definitly concentrate more and focus more...some people just don't care or are oblivious...the beginner rating and lazy approuch.....now accidents do happen to even the most carful climber..but....
I say again..If you see as#@&%es wandering around carelessly.. educate them.......
|
|
Vic Rattlehead
Novice climber
Megadeth
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2002 - 08:35pm PT
|
Sounds like climbing to me... always gotta worry about the death thing... 'aint it fun!!
|
|
Jay
Novice climber
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2002 - 09:24pm PT
|
Hey radical, have you been up there? If so then you'd agree that this is an extreme example of a situation where it's far too easy to dislodge a killer sized rock. Baring the rare scrambler, only climbers actually traverse the ledges above this area. And I think that the climbers in Yosemite (for the most part, and myself included) are very conscious of rock fall hazards, and they avoid unnecessary exposure to climbers below them. But, even when being careful, it’s not assurance for the climbers standing in the rock fall alley. So when my ass is on the line, I just don't take chances. You can if you want.
Furthermore it's not bowlshit to ignore reality; the reality is that rock fall happens at the 5OB area routinely. It's bowlshit to think that you can keep it from happening by screaming at the people who read this website. Actually I wish it were that easy, and I would incline to agree with you, but the truth is rock fall is so common to the 5 open books it's beyond this debate. I mean the only way to "educate" people and prevent a would-be sinner so as to prevent a dislodged rock would be to stand there at the base of the routes and warn each and every climber of the hazard associated with these climbs (and you’d still get plenty of accidental dislodgings). Are you (radical) willing to spend your precious time doing that? If so, then you’ve got more time on your hands than me, and I would applaud your efforts. However I just don’t that that’s a good solution.
So, now that we’ve pissed a little, lets get real. What do you think of these ideas?
1. Post signs at the base warning the high potential for rock fall in this area, as well encourage care when topping out and walking off.
2. Hold a “Let the Rocks Fall” event, where the base is closed off and volunteers clean off all the millions of rocks. (I don’t advocate this by the way, and it’s probably a bad idea, but I want to see the responses)
3. Make beta postings to all the routes in the 5 OB area on this (and other) website(s) and encourage Chris Mac (and other guidebook authors) to add more specific rock fall info to the route descriptions.
Please add to this list of ideas if you have a good one.
|
|
Death
Intermediate climber
The Underworld
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2002 - 09:39pm PT
|
Dude, you can't send all of the loose rock and destroy the habitat of many organisms (that's the tree hugger part). What is this, sponsored by the ASCA??? I recomend posting a sniper (I believe Wesley Sniper is for hire...) in the woods near the base to take out any "would be trundlers" that may happen to enter your specific climbing area. If you can't afford Wesley then I suggest sucking up the death (or crippled) potential or finding a vacant crag.
|
|
radical
Advanced climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2002 - 10:46pm PT
|
This was the second place I climbed in yosemite. I remember it fondly because I walked to the top of Yosemite fall's the first time I tried to find it..What an idiot...
It is a beginner place and there are beginners there. Because of this there are stupid people knocking rocks off on people.......period...If you think knocking a rock off while coiling the rope is excusable, than you are wrong...THis is the achytypical example of why rocks fall...Some jerk who is to lazy to coil his rope properly, sit's down on his lazy but and pulls it toward him, pulling rocks and what not out and , sending them down onto people heads...
I say again, watch what you are doing....save the spewing about your proud 5.8 lead untill after you have coiled the rope. That way you will see if it is caught, rapped, or near a rock.
And if you have a hard time with this, or this is too challenging in the 5 open book's area, then don't come to the Canadain Rockies. 5 open books is a gloosy polish compared to anything you will climb in the Rockies,(there are more loose rocks by a factor of 100) or most Alpine enviroments for that matter.. There are litteraly thousands of big and little boulders perched in all kinds of insane places on routes in the rockies, and there are sometimes 10 partys on a 10 pitch route..The occasional rock is knocked off, I have knocked them off a few times...But it was allways because I wasn't paying attention.....I have had to tiptoe off more than a few routes for fear of killing somebody...crazy
Concerning death and danger...Well, i like death and danger...But I have been around my fair share of gommers, who can do nothing more than slobber and sh#t on themselves because of a head injury....It ain't pretty...
Besides, if you are any type of human at all it will destroy your climbing carrer if you are unlucky enough to kill somebody with a rock that you knocked off...
So, the same way you are focused on your lead and gear placement during the climb, be focused on loose rocks during and after the climb.
Peace out and I look forward to seeing anybody in this area in a few days.I want to go back there and climb all the sweet hand cracks I missed the first time.....radical
|
|
dan
Advanced climber
colorado springs, colorado
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2002 - 11:05pm PT
|
radical...has some issues
|
|
Diabolical
Advanced climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2002 - 12:25am PT
|
Hey Radical,
If you expect to get a pulitzer, I think you should learn how to edit, spell-checker or not.
--- Satan's advocate and proud supporter...
|
|
radcial
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2002 - 08:23am PT
|
I know how to speel chack and edit....when I have tooooooooooo, but it is funer to write rough and fast......espeshially since it piss's off anal retentive dumb ass's like you so much.........
clean you ass now little SAtan, mommy is checking it later to see what a good job you have done.....
|
|
radical
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2002 - 08:43am PT
|
Ummm, on second thought maybe that was a bit harsh. Sorry it has been a long day.
But what's this issue thing? Do you mean issues of Climbing Magazine? Cause I love that rag.I can't wait to recieve it every month. Except for the times they publish it every other month. In which case, I can't wait even more than I couldn't on the monthy issues. (:
|
|
tree hugger
Novice climber
the woods
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2002 - 03:44pm PT
|
I beleive most guide books do warn about rock fall. I know that CM's Supertopo does warn about "climber caused rock fall" in this area.
The simple matter is, you should expect to have something dropped on your head if your going to climb behind another party. It's like if you drive to work; you should expect to encounter at least one moron on the road.
Cleaning the ledges off in order to reduce the risk is ludicrous. If you want sanitized climbing stay in the gym, only tell me where you are so I can throw rocks at you while you climb ;-)
|
|
laughing hysterically
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2002 - 05:23pm PT
|
You guys are hilarious, I f*#king love this site, Chris please dont change the forum format!
|
|
petty-officer
Novice climber
ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2002 - 01:53am PT
|
Hey!!! I thought we weren't goin to call each other ass----etc... anymore...
So radical has climbed too many finger cracks and he can't type anymore... so what... I already gave him sh-t about it earlier... he's working on his Pulitzer ya know...
|
|
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2002 - 03:02am PT
|
Ah, English teacher under yet another pseudonym. Actually that was wade icy ya corrected. I just helped him rip ya a new one. I wouldn't mind the dig's so much, although the finger crack crack was pretty good. But there is something down right mean and arrogant about your corrective tone. Reminds me of something I can't quite put my finger on.....hmmmmmmmm...... Let me see- lack of humor-lack of wit-and a certain edge to your writing that reminds me of an angry, evil old .......I got it.......You remind me of my old, nasty English teacher...hahahahaHA........Be careful English teacher, you know what happened to her now don't you........
PS. please spare me the multiple negative post's from your varied personality's.........radical
|
|
Diabolical
Novice climber
Satan's Kitchen
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2002 - 12:58pm PT
|
radical, radical, radical...,
So you think I am English Teacher do you??
WRONG!!!
Mean and arrogant, maybe but no sense of humor...??
I'm the BASTARD that has forced humor into the sorry-ass, tea-drinking, bored-sick lives of our respected fellow viewers.
I liked your story about your old E Teach!! Anything with DEATH or DEAD BODIES is WAY COOL!!! Just ask Satan!!
So pull your finger out of that damn crack and fire us another piss drool or death story!!!!!
I promise I won't correct your anti-dextrous typing...
D
|
|
dirt_me
Intermediate climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2002 - 06:36pm PT
|
I personally think that it's time to get moderators for this site. I would prefer no one reading/using this forum then having non-climbers read it and think we are all a bunch of morons. Hell, I'm thinking about tracing all of your IP's so I can hunt you down and trash your computer so you can never post again.
|
|
Pissy
Advanced climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2002 - 09:25pm PT
|
Now, now dirt, no need to get hostile. You seem to want to become moderator so that that this forum is acceptable to what YOU think is right. Pipe down and let it be. Are you too concerned for your "climber image" and what the general public thinks? Morons??? Speak for yourself.
|
|
Rick
Advanced climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2002 - 09:39pm PT
|
This thread is done....Topic lost in oblivion, oblivean, oblivan, obelivin, oblvon, ovblevian......................
|
|
Someone who can read
Advanced climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2002 - 07:24pm PT
|
Hey dummies! Listen to what Chris is saying and READ THE DAMN BETA. Yosemite Ultra Classics -- it says, right there, in black and white, while at the top of 5 OB, take care not to kick the loose rock onto the tiny little pin-heads of the idiots below. Geeze! It's even a free beta so your sorry asses don't have to shell out any of your precious beer-bucks to benefit from Chris's advice.
|
|
Malik
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2002 - 08:47pm PT
|
A round for the house on me.
Cheers, all.
|
|
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2002 - 07:07am PT
|
This thread is done, but it should be known that Chris posted this warning after this discussion and thread. So you should learn to read or at least count the days of the month.
As far as the original topic..It was a good topic. And I stand by my original premise. After leading 4 routes in the area on Tuesday, it is my final conclusion that you are being careless if you knock rocks off. There are plenty of great belays from large Manzanita bushes right at the edge of the cliffs. The rope can be coiled carefully and carried away from the cliff edge
Another option is sending your second about 15 to 20 feet up from the edge, and carefully feeding him the rope, as he carefully pulls it up and out of the way. This is what I did on two of the routes...radical
|
|
Jay
Novice climber
|
|
|
Apr 26, 2002 - 12:58pm PT
|
I hate to drag this on... But, what do you think of posting signs near the base? Not all climbers are Supertopo rats.
|
|
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2002 - 02:19pm PT
|
Here's an idea Jason. How about passing legislation creating a climbing safety authority, which could require only people who pass its licensing exam to climb anywhere in the state of California. Violations punishable by fine and/or imprisonment. Then we will all be safe for sure.
Get a f*#king clue.
|
|
jrm
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2002 - 07:40pm PT
|
Man, I seriously doubt that someone could actually sue a gym, at least none that I've climbed at....you definitely SIGN YOUR LIFE AWAY...in every sense of the phrase!
|
|
Jay
Novice climber
|
|
Gosh, should I be insulted or entertained? The consensus is out, and here are the results:
For all those in favor of posting a sign say 'Aey'... burp.
For those in favor of not posting a sign say 'Ney'... NEY ..YOU F"CK.SAS & P’PL GIZRD LILYLIVERED SOB SHUTUPSITDOWN ISMCKYOUAMRICANDMBASS SWINE PSSHED GOCLIMBITALREADY!
Drive safe...Done.
|
|
Copperhead
Advanced climber
sign away your life
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2002 - 05:50pm PT
|
I say NEY, NAY, NO, NADA, NEVER...
If you need a sign to tell you that a climbing area is dangerous then you are too stupid in the first place and deserve to get bonked!!! NS!
|
|
mike
Advanced climber
ventura
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2002 - 08:28pm PT
|
Well guys and gals, a truly entertaining forum (love the bickering) – wanna hear the perspective of one of the guys injured at 5OB that weekend?
I think a sign is not a bad idea at all – yes rock fall is an inherent form of danger that we all recognize as true and real. I have been climbing these routes for the past 10 years, and have seen quite a few rocks fall. The reason I support a sign is that a good majority of the climbers doing these routes are there because of the ease of Mungenella. I often go there with some of my less experienced friends, and I am extremely cautious exiting the climb, and especially belaying. I keep a close eye on my followers when they are exiting, and I am extremely careful taking the trail back. Not everyone is an experienced climber there, not everyone is aware of what their negligence may do.
The rock that hit me was not knocked off by a climber on route – I was at the base of the splitter crack when I looked up to see it a few feet above my head. It barely missed my helmet and smashed my wrist – my buddies thought someone had broken a bottle. Luckily nothing broke, but the rock. I have seen rocks knocked off at the top, they usually fall 20-30 feet to the right of the base of the climb. No one yelled rock, no warning. The guys climbing above were done, and most likely walking off, needless to say I didn’t hang out to find out their story. But their buddies who were returning to the base, I am sure filled them in. As any of you who climb this would know, the dirt is very loose up there and there are tons of small rocks. Walking off you can still knock off rocks. A small sign, advising people of this might prevent future injury.
I also met up with one of the other injured guys in the clinic, he was the lucky one out of the group. Again, not much could have prevented it there. I could be wrong, but what I recall about their accident was a rock was dislodged during a fall. The rangers and YOSAR that interviewed me were very concerned about others getting hurt in the area, and were considering a sign.
Chris, thank you for putting an official warning up on the board. I put mine as soon as I could peck and type, but I think that Chris’ warning will help others realize the danger and just take a little extra care.
I was hoping to be up there to climb this weekend, but still can’t, although I do plan on hitting commitment (and not getting hit on commitment) when I go back up the end of May. I personally would be stoked to see a sign, and no I don’t think that it would have prevented my injury, nor turned me around. There are just too many folks that climb these classics, many of them novice multipitch climbers. I mean there is mung or after 6. Where else do most of the novices go. We all gotta learn somewhere, lets just try to avoid unnecessary injuries.
Mike Duzinski
|
|
radical
Novice climber
darwinian selection work crew
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2002 - 09:17am PT
|
natural selection is sadly lacking...at least in our little class of animal..But could we at least select a few more of these commuters in LA........radical
|
|
Def-Jam
Advanced climber
Galapagos Islands
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2002 - 12:45pm PT
|
Radical, that's what guns are for. Or maybe you should get out of that sh#t-hole. My buddy in Flagstaff tells me that, on occasion, they get LA smog. Sick!!
I think NS is in effect for all of us, we just don't know it yet. Darwin is king! Long live the cockroaches!!
ps - signs are for tourists.
|
|
Brian
Novice climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2002 - 12:00pm PT
|
|
|
Brian
Intermediate climber
Fresno
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2002 - 12:08pm PT
|
that last post was my stunned silence......
Post a sign at the base of climbs??? WHAT??? How will that in any way, shape, or form prevent rockfall?? All it will do is make Yosemite look more like Disneyland.
Wait,..I know....the NPS should get huge strip mine sprayers to wash away all of the loose debris from the climbs in Yosemite to make it safe for all of you whiners that feel as though you should not have to contend with the dangers of climbing.
Get a clue and go to the Gym.
|
|
Copperhead
Advanced climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2002 - 03:30pm PT
|
Here, here!
|
|
Chossimus
Advanced climber
chossdom
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2002 - 03:11am PT
|
Dudeimus rock kickerus,
I'll take a bar at any crag, any day!!
Rocks come in bigger sizes than baseballs (and slightly higher densities, to be scientific). I bet I can find a rock to trundle that will go through your batting cage like tin foil. Batter up!
|
|
| Messages 1 - 36 of total 36 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
munginella
Let us know!