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Messages 5641 - 5660 of total 5676 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:50am PT
Guns aren't regulated?

As far as booze regulations, many - maybe even most - are arbitrary and/or asinine.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 18, 2014 - 11:56am PT
Madbolter posted
As the cops here flatly say, "An armed public makes our jobs easier!" And, as one sheriff here publicly said, "I wish that EVERY law-abiding citizen in Colorado was armed."

Yes here let's assume that your anonymous sheriff represents the views of all law enforcement as opposed to say the actual, publicly stated view of numerous actual law enforcement groups and agencies saying the opposite.

I wish EVERY argument could be won with sourceless, made up quotes!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 18, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
I wish EVERY argument could be won with sourceless, made up quotes!

I'm sure you do; then you'd have a clear win.

My quotes, on the other hand, by stark contrast, are neither sourceless nor made up.

If you'd like, I'd be happy (and I mean that) to put you in touch with the range master to whom I referred, and he'd be happy to put you in touch with the dozens and dozens of LEOs in Colorado that I'm sure would be happy to set you straight.

Of course, you wouldn't want the straight scoop like that; it might threaten your cozy little paradigm. And, of course, you can always retreat to the idea that Colorado is filled with nut-job cops that don't know any better. Real LEOs "everywhere" fit your profile. Right?

Or do they?

Perhaps you've tuned into a vocal subset, and the real LEOs everywhere are much more like Colorado cops then you'd like to admit.

Oh, right, except for DC, NY, NJ, LA, and Chicago. Ooops! What's wrong with THAT picture???
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 18, 2014 - 12:17pm PT
A quick story to help you along in your contemplation of what cops SHOULD want, even if they are too stupid to want it....

I'm in Cerritos picking up a pile of auto parts for my friend, John. As I get out of my truck, there are several obviously gangbangers hanging around the entrance. My foot no more than touches the ground when they are on their feet and sidling toward me.

"Hey man. You're not from around here. You need to think again before just touching down here like you own the place." Etc., etc.

I simply pulled back my shirt showing my .357 (wheel gun bitd), and I said, "Look. I'm just here on business. I've got a job to do, and then I'm out of here. None of us wants to have a bad day today, and there's no reason why any of us should."

Instantly they stopped, nodded in respect, and said, "Peace, man. Do your business and be on your way."

I nodded back, and that was it.

End of story. Violence AVERTED!

Sadly, I was packing illegally. Had I been packing legally and openly, the trash would not even have started the incident. Or, had I been packing legally and concealed, it would have played out exactly as it did. Either way, my being armed would (and should) have been a LEGAL way to deescalate the situation.

HOW many cops have been called out to clean up after incidents that did NOT deescalate?

Colorado cops recognize the principle my story exemplifies. Of course, they are all just nut-jobs, I guess.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 18, 2014 - 12:59pm PT
And there are just as many stories where the escalating started with a gun.

In Florida you might get shot just reaching for your shirt, standing their ground and all that.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 18, 2014 - 01:43pm PT
I thought Libertarians loved voluntary taxes?

I'm all for hugely increased taxes on booze going to fund DUI enforcement/education. I don't DUI, and such a tax would disproportionally hurt me, yet I'm in favor of it. The difference between DUI laws and Gun laws is that nobody is calling for fewer DUI laws or higher legal limits.

While we all want cops to be better trained nobody wants to pay for it, why should I have to pay for training police when I'm not the one selling guns to criminals? The fact is that the majority of guns that cops end up facing were originally sold legally, and current laws make that process from shop to street corner a virtually risk-free enterprise.

It may not be fair, but it's a more fairly-targeted funding scheme than most taxes. Neither you nor I, nor your LEO friend can tell a law-abiding gun owner from a criminal one until its too late, so tax them all. How about a voluntary national gun registration scheme instead; $500 impact fee waived for owners willing to take responsibility for the destination of their guns?

So that's how law abiding gun owners act? You committed a crime by displaying that gun in a threatening manner, and those guys would have been absolutely within their second amendment rights to shoot you. How would that have felt? Thanks for the story.

I just got dragged back, darn.

TE
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Jul 18, 2014 - 04:18pm PT
Hey TE, you climb at Birdsboro? I know the police have a range there. Doesn't seem like the safest place to be. Quarry turned into a sport climbing pit. Pretty cool place. you ever climb at stover? Henry ave bridge? Livzey? Kelly drive? I miss philly, though i do visit from time to time

scott
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Jul 18, 2014 - 04:21pm PT
River crossing at birdsboro. I have a gimpy body, thus the pulley
River crossing at birdsboro. I have a gimpy body, thus the pulley
Credit: A5scott
Credit: A5scott
id=368372]
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 18, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
You committed a crime by displaying that gun in a threatening manner, and those guys would have been absolutely within their second amendment rights to shoot you.

I've changed my mind. You're not worth responding to after this.

Do you REALLY think that just lifting a shirt to reveal a weapon is "displaying that gun in a threatening manner?" Really?

No, seriously! Are you KIDDING, or are you truly that far-out of an orbital module???

And you REALLY think that they would have been within their "second amendment rights to shoot [me]?" Are you actually serious? You can't be.

I mean, really. No WAY you can really think that.

But, amazingly, I think you are. And you CLAIM to have carried and be "pro gun?"

You apparently have NO idea the difference between "display" and "brandishing." Our instructor (who ALSO just happens to instruct the COPS, sheesh!) just yesterday actually advocated the very sort of thing I did in that sort of situation. The ONLY illegal thing I did was have the gun in the first place, and thanks to Cali's utterly stupid laws (which enabled these gangbangers to be armed but not an average citizen just going about his business!), everybody I knew went around illegally armed. AMAZING how the average armed citizen is just not involved in the epidemic of gangland shooting in Cali.

So, those guys had every right to shoot me just because I revealed that I had a gun, no hand on it, no hand near it, but just I HAVE it (just as would have been the case if I could have legally open-carried? Just the SIGHT of a gun, in your (insane) way of thinking justifies somebody to shoot???

Interesting how you, just like me, KNOW they were armed themselves. How else could they shoot me? You know it. I know it. The cops know it. But, again, Cali's stupid laws preclude the cops from a pat down just because they hang out in a threatening group with nothing better to do with their lives than intimidate innocent people.

And what was your suggested alternative? Take a beating? Get knifed? Get shot? All of the above?

Ohh... I should just not have been ALLOWED to go into a place of business and do what I needed to do. Yesss.... I could have called a cop. And I would have said WHAT on the 911 call? "Yes, there's some mean-looking guys hanging around the entrance. I think they have gang tattoos. I think I see that one of them is armed."

Yeah right. Do you really have ANY experience with this sort of crap at all?

Currraaaaazzzzyyyy!!!! I mean bat-droppings, straightjacket, googoo-eyed CRAZY!

If THIS is the society YOU want, then you can just move to Canada or England (and have your wife gang-raped, which happens to women there hugely more often as a per-capita rate than it does here). Here in the USA, law-abiding people have a RIGHT to go about their business without having to worry that some gangbanger trash is going to threaten and accost them.

And gangbangers DO respect a citizen with a gun. This I know for myself from long, long experience.

Okay, I'm done with all this nonsense. You anti-gun-nuts can just circle jerk yourselves and "know" that you "have the high moral ground" because you're "all about stopping the slaughter of innocent children" and all that other nonsense you've absorbed from the frantic media.

Meanwhile, the real killers of children will go completely unaddressed, and, as expected, there are NO threads here springing up about the real killers of children. Your inconsistencies are epic. And your causal chains are non-existent.

Plus, more and MORE people in America are getting armed, and remember: This thread hugely contributed to MY decision to do so.

Good luck, and have fun!
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 18, 2014 - 06:33pm PT
Are you really that bat crazy to think they couldn't have shot you had they been armed, would of then been all their word agaisnt who's then? Deadman don't talk, in any state.

Yes you do have some dumbstruck cops in Co. If they think lethal force by a citizen to a situation you could of walked away from is a smarter option.

Your delusion of your self ingested superpowers is going get you shot, I hope no bystanders get caught in your fantasy showdown. Thanks for no help getting sensible gun legislation.


HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 18, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
madbolter posted
My quotes, on the other hand, by stark contrast, are neither sourceless nor made up.

If you'd like, I'd be happy (and I mean that) to put you in touch with the range master to whom I referred, and he'd be happy to put you in touch with the dozens and dozens of LEOs in Colorado that I'm sure would be happy to set you straight.

Here let me show my enormous surprise that you "know a guy" who thinks that the solution to everything is people owning guns.


Madbolter continued
I've changed my mind. You're not worth responding to after this.

Then responded:


Do you REALLY think that just lifting a shirt to reveal a weapon is "displaying that gun in a threatening manner?" Really?

No, seriously! Are you KIDDING, or are you truly that far-out of an orbital module???

And you REALLY think that they would have been within their "second amendment rights to shoot [me]?" Are you actually serious? You can't be.

I mean, really. No WAY you can really think that.

But, amazingly, I think you are. And you CLAIM to have carried and be "pro gun?"

You apparently have NO idea the difference between "display" and "brandishing." Our instructor (who ALSO just happens to instruct the COPS, sheesh!) just yesterday actually advocated the very sort of thing I did in that sort of situation. The ONLY illegal thing I did was have the gun in the first place, and thanks to Cali's utterly stupid laws (which enabled these gangbangers to be armed but not an average citizen just going about his business!), everybody I knew went around illegally armed. AMAZING how the average armed citizen is just not involved in the epidemic of gangland shooting in Cali.

So, those guys had every right to shoot me just because I revealed that I had a gun, no hand on it, no hand near it, but just I HAVE it (just as would have been the case if I could have legally open-carried? Just the SIGHT of a gun, in your (insane) way of thinking justifies somebody to shoot???

Interesting how you, just like me, KNOW they were armed themselves. How else could they shoot me? You know it. I know it. The cops know it. But, again, Cali's stupid laws preclude the cops from a pat down just because they hang out in a threatening group with nothing better to do with their lives than intimidate innocent people.

And what was your suggested alternative? Take a beating? Get knifed? Get shot? All of the above?

Ohh... I should just not have been ALLOWED to go into a place of business and do what I needed to do. Yesss.... I could have called a cop. And I would have said WHAT on the 911 call? "Yes, there's some mean-looking guys hanging around the entrance. I think they have gang tattoos. I think I see that one of them is armed."

Yeah right. Do you really have ANY experience with this sort of crap at all?

Currraaaaazzzzyyyy!!!! I mean bat-droppings, straightjacket, googoo-eyed CRAZY!

If THIS is the society YOU want, then you can just move to Canada or England (and have your wife gang-raped, which happens to women there hugely more often as a per-capita rate than it does here). Here in the USA, law-abiding people have a RIGHT to go about their business without having to worry that some gangbanger trash is going to threaten and accost them.

And gangbangers DO respect a citizen with a gun. This I know for myself from long, long experience.

Okay, I'm done with all this nonsense.

Not quite done apparently.

You anti-gun-nuts can just circle jerk yourselves and "know" that you "have the high moral ground" because you're "all about stopping the slaughter of innocent children" and all that other nonsense you've absorbed from the frantic media.

Meanwhile, the real killers of children will go completely unaddressed, and, as expected, there are NO threads here springing up about the real killers of children. Your inconsistencies are epic. And your causal chains are non-existent.

Plus, more and MORE people in America are getting armed, and remember: This thread hugely contributed to MY decision to do so.

Good luck, and have fun!

That's some impressive restraint. Someone without your calm, cool demeanor would have emptied their entire magazine but I can see that you're the type of person who can really pick and choose when a situation really calls for action and not fly off the handle.

If you aren't actually done I'd love to hear about your "long, long experience" with "gangbangers." Are there any other dog whistles you're long in the experience with?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jul 24, 2014 - 07:42am PT
Back to gun debates/info:


Magazine problems 101.


My M 1 carbine was having feed issues- all three styles of magazines i had were the same- and would have a FTF about every 4 or five rounds.

Upon close examination, these failures were due to the next round getting cocked upward, and the bolt would hang on the top of the rear of the round- every time.

This lead me to thinking it was ALL the magazines faults and not the gun.

I took apart each magazine and found the coils at the top and bottom of the springs to be angled like the rest of the springs. So i straightened them to lay parallel with the bottom and the feed caps of the magazines.

I then notice an ever so slight bulge- possibly from manufacturing and trimming of the tops of the magazines in the center of each side. So i took pliers and after forcing the feed caps down a bit, squeezed the sides of the magazines inward to be nearly tight against the sides of the feed caps.


And bingo- every magazine now feeds flawlessly!!

Firearm tech tip of the day.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 24, 2014 - 08:41am PT
Real M1 or a replica?
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 24, 2014 - 08:59am PT
Thanks Rom for bumping this, I would have missed his rant, and HDDJ's great response.

As for "brandishing":California Penal Code 417:

(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows:
(A) If the violation occurs in a public place and the firearm is a
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person, by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months and not more than one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

You can be damn sure that if those nice law abiding citizens had lifted their vests to reveal pistols, you'd have considered it threatening.

TE
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jul 24, 2014 - 10:19am PT
Fear,, its a real M1 made by Auto Ordinance. Just like they did in 42.

But no its not that old. They were one of the originals manufacturers so replica in this case may not be the term best suited for the weapon. ;-)


Elder M1s are going from anywhere between 2K and 6K + !!!



Auto Ordinance M 1 Carbine, 30.cal, 1942 version  Made in Mass. USA.
Auto Ordinance M 1 Carbine, 30.cal, 1942 version Made in Mass. USA.
Credit: Ron Anderson
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 24, 2014 - 10:26am PT
2 to 6K for an M1....now it's clear why they're referred to as "gun nuts." I was in the last US Army basic training unit to use M1's. They certainly were heavier than AR-15's.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jul 24, 2014 - 10:28am PT
But what a SAWEEET shooting lil gun eh JD! And more foot pounds than ARs up to 300 yards taboot.;-)


Ive wanted one since my days of watching Combat.. All three of my brothers used these in the USAF. They all love them too. ;-)



oh,, and the reason the originals runs are so expensive is that the USA banned importing the guns that were made here back from warehouses full of them in places like Korea. Now of course, Massachusetts and other states still produce them..
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jul 26, 2014 - 10:28pm PT
Twas a DAMM busy day at the store today.. We sold near 30 guns, and about a ton and a half of ammo.! Our sale on XDs and M&P Shields - they were flying out the door. 40s , 9mms, and a few long guns taboot. A good third of the buyers were Women as well.

Even had a "LEGAL ALIEN" purchase today- a guy here with a work Visa. That paper work was on the extreme side.!!

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 27, 2014 - 05:36am PT
A friend from Pakistan (also with citizenship here) recently got his permit... You want to talk about strange looks and paperwork!
crankster

Trad climber
Jul 27, 2014 - 08:07am PT
Credit: crankster
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