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Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Jul 8, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
New Missouri Law Would Allow First Graders To Take NRA-Sponsored Gun Class
By Esther Yu-Hsi Lee on Jul 14, 2013 at 2:52 pm

First-graders may soon be able to enroll in a NRA sponsored gun class as a result of a public safety bill signed into law by Missouri Governor Jay Nixon (D) on Friday.
The measure requires school personnel to participate in at least eight hours of an “Active Shooter and Intruder Response Training” program conducted by law enforcement officials and allows schools to apply for financial grants for the NRA’s Eddie Eagle Gunsafe Program.
The NRA claims that the course, which features colorful cartoon character named Eddie Eagle, teaches children about gun safety. But research has failed to link the program to a reduction in children’s deaths from guns, with some studies showing that while “children could memorize Eddie’s simple advice about avoiding guns,” the instruction “went unheeded when children were put in real-life scenarios and asked to role-play a response.” Another report labeled Eddie Eagle “Joe Camel with feathers” and argued that the goal of the program was to recruit new NRA members.
The gun lobby itself has a long record of marketing guns to children and actively works to discredit groups like the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) that want to stop children from encountering guns in the first place. Missouri now joins North Carolina, Texas, and Virginia in providing an endorsement of the NRA program through state laws. Ohio was the first state to fund the Eddie Eagle program.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/14/2297771/missouri-first-graders-gun-safety-courses/



Hell why are they waiting so long? I am sure they believe they could train them inutero.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
Uh,... philo, learning to be safe is a bad idea?

Oh yeah, thats right, this is about brainwashing little minds.
jghedge

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:58pm PT


"Uh,... philo, learning to be safe is a bad idea?"


Kids shouldn't have guns, or access to them. Period.

Allowing children that young access to guns is insanity.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 14, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
So you'd rather have them only have the knowledge gleaned from Saturday morning cartoons?


Seems you haven't a clue as to what's in the NRA lessons.

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, fatal firearm accidents in the Eddie Eagle age group have been reduced by over 80% since the program's nationwide launch. NRA feels that gun accident prevention programs such as Eddie Eagle are a significant factor in that decline.

Widely Used
Since 1988, The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program has been taught by more than 26,000 schoolteachers and law enforcement officers nationwide. Since 1988, the program has reached over 26 million children - in all 50 states.

They should:

STOP!
DON'T TOUCH.
LEAVE THE AREA.
TELL AN ADULT.

http://eddieeagle.nra.org/program-features.aspx
jghedge

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 05:32pm PT


"Seems you haven't a clue as to what's in the NRA lessons."


I know propaganda when I see it. If the parents can't be responsible enough to keep their kids away from guns, they shouldn't have them in the first place. Obviously.

Since when are gun advocates asking for gov't gun programs? Wouldn't that just lead to confiscation?
jghedge

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/14/2297771/missouri-first-graders-gun-safety-courses/

The NRA claims that the course, which features colorful cartoon character named Eddie Eagle, teaches children about gun safety. But research has failed to link the program to a reduction in children’s deaths from guns, with some studies showing that while “children could memorize Eddie’s simple advice about avoiding guns,” the instruction “went unheeded when children were put in real-life scenarios and asked to role-play a response.” Another report labeled Eddie Eagle “Joe Camel with feathers” and argued that the goal of the program was to recruit new NRA members.


The study refuting the NRA claims that their gun safety classes had any effect in reducing child gun deaths:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14702451


TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 14, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program has been honored or formally endorsed by groups such as the National Sheriffs' Association, the American Legion, the Police Athletic League, the Association of American Educators, and others. The program has received bipartisan support from the governors of 26 states who signed resolutions recommending that the program be used in their school systems. Additionally, the legislatures of 23 states passed resolutions recommending the use of the Eddie Eagle Program in their states.
jghedge

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
Joe Camel with Feathers: How the NRA with Gun and Tobacco Industry Dollars Uses its Eddie Eagle Program to Market Guns to Kids

http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/eddiekey.htm


The primary goal of the National Rifle Association's Eddie Eagle program is not to safeguard children, but to protect the interests of the NRA and the firearms industry by making guns more acceptable to children and youth. The Eddie Eagle program employs strategies similar to those utilized by America's tobacco industry—from youth "educational" programs that are in fact marketing tools to the use of appealing cartoon characters that aim to put a friendly face on a hazardous product. The hoped-for result is new customers for the industry and new members for the NRA.

Violence Policy Center research reveals for the first time that manufacturers of firearms, ammunition, and related products directly contribute hundreds of thousands of tax-deductible dollars to the NRA through its "affiliate," The NRA Foundation. The Foundation in turn then makes "grants" to the NRA to fund the Eddie Eagle program. Financial contributors to The NRA Foundation include Saturday Night Special or "junk gun" manufacturers, rifle and shotgun manufacturers, and manufacturers of ammunition and reloading equipment. Donation of land of unknown value has also been made by industry members to The NRA Foundation for endowment programs. Industry members have also facilitated the donation of more than a million dollars to the NRA through point-of-purchase dealer and catalog sale programs.

Violence Policy Center research reveals for the first time that the tobacco industry has contributed tens of thousands of dollars to the NRA through The NRA Foundation.

Many of the marketing problems being faced today by the NRA and the firearms industry are, in fact, similar to those faced in the past by the cigarette and smokeless tobacco industries. Faced with declines in its primary market, the gun industry and the NRA, like the tobacco industry before them, have expanded their market to include women and children—even though guns, like tobacco, cannot legally be sold to children or youth. Yet while the tobacco industry denies that it is working to entice children to use its product, the NRA and the gun industry openly acknowledge it.

The NRA uses Eddie Eagle as a lobbying tool in its efforts to derail the passage of child access prevention (CAP) and mandatory trigger lock laws—on both the state and federal levels.

Undercover interviews conducted by the Violence Policy Center and the Global Survival Network with NRA staff at gun industry trade shows confirm that Eddie Eagle is not only a thinly disguised marketing tool used to "soften up guns" in the words of one NRA staffer—essentially Joe Camel with feathers—but also acts as the "the clean-up committee" to help burnish the NRA's public image after gun control battles.

A laudatory article distributed by The NRA Foundation as a promotional flyer concludes, "The Foundation is a mechanism by which the firearms industry can promote shooting sports education, cultivating the next generation of shooters. Translate that to future customers." Or as one NRA Foundation official quoted in the article put it, "The industry is an indirect beneficiary of this program." The article also notes that The NRA Foundation is "getting some major league support from several giants in the industry" and one industry member estimated that as many as 20 firearm industry companies or their CEOs were involved in the Foundation's fundraising efforts.

In its attempts to use the credibility of other organizations to promote the Eddie Eagle program, the NRA has misrepresented awards granted to the program by the National Safety Council, which has issued a series of sharp rebukes to the NRA. [pp. 42-46] The NRA has also erroneously claimed endorsement by D.A.R.E. (Drug Abuse Resistance Education) and the Black United Fund, Inc.

Rather than recognizing the inherent danger firearms in the home pose to children, and the often irresponsible firearms storage behavior of adults, the Eddie Eagle program places the onus of safety and responsibility on the children themselves.

Public health researchers have found that "gun safety" programs like Eddie Eagle are ineffective in preventing unintentional death and injury from firearms. In an educational brochure for parents, "Keep Your Family Safe From Firearm Injury," the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that "because even the most well-behaved children are curious by nature and will eagerly explore their environment, the safest thing is to not keep a gun at home."

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 14, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
The Violence Policy Center, pffft!

Yeah, a really objective organization.




Although my father dropped the ball in several regards, going target shooting and hunting with him were entirely positive bonding experiences. The education I got from the getgo in safe weapons handling has served me well not only in my personal conduct, but also in recognizing the skill (or lack thereof) in others.

Kids learning gun safety is just one facet of a well rounded upbringing for rural offspring, a breed admittedly becoming rare.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jul 14, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
Any of you NRAdvocates been around many six year olds for any length of time? Something tells me No.
Ron how old were you when you bonded with your dad?
My Grandfather was a consummate outdoorsman. He taught us all gun safety after we reached 12 years old when he thought maturity had reached a point of responsibility. Should Nascar promote driver's ed classes in elementary school? Is it actually relevant to the young mind?
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 14, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
they will!!!

the second their commercials tell them to...
jghedge

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
"Yeah, a really objective organization."


But of course, The NRA is objective - hahaha.


The most disturbing element of debating gun policy with gun nuts is the extent to which logic and reason are absent from their discourse, yet these are the same people who insist on being armed to the teeth.

If they're incapable of, and/or unwilling to, hold up their end of the debate, how responsible concerning gun use/ownership are they really going to be? Won't the same lack of reason that justifies their ownership of guns be used to govern their use?


Shouldn't people who utterly fail at the logic of justifying gun ownership be the last people who should own them?





TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 14, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Credit: TGT
jghedge

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
^^^ Hahaha, says the guy who advocates arming criminals in the first place


Proving once again that as soon as logic and common sense unfairly invade a gun nut's attempts to justify ownership, the reasons for their not owning them become crystal clear.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 14, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
I was about 4 when a deer came out of the woods surrounding our house and my dad went and grabbed his .257 Roberts, made sure it was unloaded, and leveled it on the living room window sill.
After a bit he had me take a look taking care to teach me the 2nd discipline.

In the next years we started with archery and .22s

By the time I was 13 I was ranked higher than my camp counselor "instructor".

Thanks dad.
jghedge

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 08:07pm PT

Hahaha, so you need to arm yourself against being attacked by deer - got it.


Assuming that's all you need your gun for, your argument holds up.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
Credit: philo
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
$25.99 for a 50 pack of .40 cal 180 grain plunkers.

Damn this gun debacle.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
yeah, mucci

that's about what I paid last week for some S&W 40s

can you imagine the billions of dollars in profits for the gun industry

and who do you think sits on the board of directors of the NRA

yep, all the firearm manufacturers, making sure the hysteria continues $$$
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