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Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Apr 10, 2015 - 10:00pm PT
Got a link ?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Apr 10, 2015 - 10:03pm PT
Ron: Nice try. I was originally referring to the infantile obsession with high-powered firearms that you guys have, particularly those loaded with ammunition solely designed to kill people. And then you dare to whine about your "rights".

Facts are facts. You can put lipstick on a pig and call it something else, but it's still really a pig.

Look up the intentional death by firearm stats all by yourself and feel free to correct me. Maybe the NRA can fabricate some numbers for you.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 10, 2015 - 10:09pm PT
Stewart writes:

"I was referring to firearm related homicides. I thought that was clear, and I'm absolutely right. My apologies if I wasn't clear."



I stand corrected.

When you wrote "murder rate", I mistakenly thought you were talking about murder rate.

My apologies.

When you wrote "democracies", you're talking about democracies. Right? Just want to double check before I point out the firearm murder rate in places like Brazil, Mexico, and Venezuela - democracies all.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Apr 10, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
Murder has a lot to do with the weapon of choice, given legal alternatives and federal restrictions.

I'm proud to say that beating, knifing, Bludgeoning, suffocating and drowning people as a way to resolve differences takes precedence over bullets in Canada.

We treat bullets as a luxury and tax them accordingly.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Apr 10, 2015 - 10:46pm PT
Ron,

Your link simply states whatever as being so. There is no correlating stats or even so much as a simple starts here, goes there graph.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 10, 2015 - 11:08pm PT
Iceland: 14,726.95 crimes per 100,000 population

Well, whoever put that list together is a complete moron. Have you ever been to Iceland? I mean seriously. Their population is only 325k total which would be 48k crimes by those stats - only an imbecile would believe that if they had any knowledge of the country at all.

So unless cribbing extra pickled fish at a smorgasbord is now a crime that list couldn't be more full of sh#t - especially given their pretrial incarceration rate is 12 per 100,000 (not that there's anywhere to go...). Bottom line is that crime stat posted to ranker.com by 'web guy' you referenced is a complete fabrication going around the internet like a bad meme.

And to further push the point - anyone committing a crime against anyone else in Iceland would be committing it against a second cousin at the most distant relation. It's a ludicrously stupid ranking.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 11, 2015 - 07:45am PT
I believe it. People go batshlt crazy from holing up in the arctic, and they are the children of vikings!

Just imagine what you would be like after 5 months of splitting up pickled fish with yer second cousin/gf.



And now a few words from somebody who has never heard of a conspiracy he didn't believe;....
WBraun

climber
Apr 11, 2015 - 09:06am PT
American Empire Exposed

http://empireexposed.blogspot.com/

Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Apr 11, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
Crime statistics
Crime statistics
Credit: Lollie


Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Apr 11, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
The following information is courtesy of the American Bar Association. I assume that they have a legal duty to post accurate information:

1) Firearm deaths in the U.S. are 8 times higher than its economic counterparts.

2) Among children 15 years old and younger, firearm deaths are 12 times higher than in 25 other industrial countries combined.

3) The U.S. has the highest rate of youth homicides & suicides among 26 wealthiest nations.

Feel free to check this out for yourselves.

The above information aside, I still maintain that there is something seriously wrong with the mentality of individuals who feel that it is their "right" to own high power assault weapons with large capacity magazines - especially those equipped with ammunition that is specifically designed to kill human beings. The use of this kind of ammunition on the battlefield is considered a war crime, by the way.

I weary of attempting to explain what I consider to be just common decency.
Arguing with you guys is like trying to teach a stone frog how to fart.*

Bernard Cornwell, if I remember correctly.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 11, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
I believe it.

And then I would have to suppose Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 11, 2015 - 04:20pm PT

1) Firearm deaths in the U.S. are 8 times higher than its economic counterparts.

2) Among children 15 years old and younger, firearm deaths are 12 times higher than in 25 other industrial countries combined.

3) The U.S. has the highest rate of youth homicides & suicides among 26 wealthiest nations.

The problem is not kids with guns. The problem is kids with attitude, kids with no parents or dysfunctional ones.

Stewart, I am sick and tired of the liberal hand wringing over "high power assault weapons with large capacity magazines".
If you live miles from the nearest neighbor calling 911 means that eventually somebody will investigate the mess if you fail to deal with it. An assault weapon is very useful for self-defense in such a scenario.
And do you even know what a 3G competion is? Such firearms are de riguer.
Or what about if you just like punching holes in paper?
Or what about legally hunting with a 5 round mag? They can feed your family too.

In other words there are plenty of legitimate roles that they can fulfill.

You obviously know little about such things. How would you feel if somebody who knew very little about climbing was in charge of making the climbing regulations? (There are a fair number of us that have walked in those shoes)

Yeah right, no sporting purpose; when the hell did self-defense become a sport? (and how tf do you score it?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 11, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
On checking the UN database which was the likely 'source' of the data, you find that the total number of people who came in contact with the police/judicial system was 1470.3 / 100k in 2009. Whomever the 'WebGuy' on ranker.com is has some serious problems with math to transform that into 14,726.95 / 100k. But of course no one bothered to check and so now that moron's list has infected the web like a virus (and mostly on right-leaning websites).
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 11, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
In other words there are plenty of legitimate roles that they can fulfill.

No doubt. I'm sure at least 1 or 2% of the weapons that fit that description do fulfill those legitimate roles. The rest? Bullsh#t, it's masturbatory white suburban male delusion.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Apr 11, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
Toker Villain: It sickens me to even think that one citizen of the United States thinks as you do, even more so to realize that others share your beliefs.

For starters, in the past, I have indicated that not only am I not unfamiliar with firearms, but I have also stated that I have no objections to those who possess firearms for target shooting or hunting purposes. If it makes you sleep better, go ahead and get a gun for self-defence - just don't be too disappointed if your kid blows his head off playing with it, or the bad guys take it away from you and uses it upon your family.

If you need a large capacity magazine attached to an automatic weapon to go hunting with, you're not much of a man, and even less of a hunter.

As for self defence in remote places beyond contact with the police, your paranoia is breathtaking. Should you be under assault by people packing automatic weapons loaded with ammunition designed specifically designed to kill human beings, I suggest that you just relax and die. Those scenarios, even in the United States are pretty well non-existent, and an assault force that determined wouldn't stop at automatic weapons - they'd probably have access to grenade launchers, and god know what other amazing weaponry.

Grow up, you pathetic fool. It is a waste of time to attempt to participate in a rational debate with you.

Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Apr 11, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
It must be quite awful, and exhausting, to live in such fear of one's fellow citizens, to feel one must be armed in order to survive.

Precision sports as target shooting, dart and similar activities are quite a different matter. One of the few sports where an Olympic master isn't necessarily a young person.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 11, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
It must be quite awful, and exhausting, to live in such fear of one's fellow citizens, to feel one must be armed in order to survive.

Do you "live in fear" of a flood damaging your house? Do you carry flood insurance?

Do you "live in fear" of getting ejected through your windshield? Do you wear your seatbelt?

Do you "live in fear" of turning your head into a red magic marker on the asphalt? Do you wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle?

Obviously, one does not have to "live in fear" to take precautions against even unlike events, especially when one thinks that the consequences of NOT having taken such precautions can be dire.

Of course, you will respond, "Well, flood insurance does not risk anybody's life when I carry THAT!"

And I will respond, "For tens of millions of responsible gun carriers, their carrying doesn't risk anybody else's life either. And there ARE real negative effects of carrying insurance that you don't really need and almost certainly will never employ."

Everything comes down to risk/reward ratios, and part of being FREE human beings is that we get to determine for OURSELVES what risks we will take and what means we will employ to mitigate those risks.

You can't paint all gun-carriers with the "paranoid" brush or try to "shame us" into changing our perspective.

If YOU prefer to proxy your self-defense to police that will CERTAINLY arrive AFTER an incident has already played out, more power to you. I, and tens of millions of other Americans, prefer to be my own front line of defense. There is nothing "paranoid," "fearful," or irresponsible about that choice.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Apr 11, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
Master of the superlative ! IN THE HOUSE !

ps. the red magic marker phrase was great.
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Apr 11, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
There is nothing "paranoid," "fearful," or irresponsible about that choice.

Interesting choice of words.

:-) No, I don't carry a flood insurance. But you know, in these days of climate change, maybe it will become necessary one day. I'm sure the insurance companies will remove it from the homeinsurance when it would start to matter.

No, I don't paint all gun-carriers with the "paranoid" brush. I perfectly understand why a hunter or target shooter has guns and rifles.

Nor do I try to shame you into changing your perspective. I realise that's an impossible task. Not my task ether. But it's the fear of needing to defend yourself with a gun which is your reason for having it. You say it yourself. And I still think it must be a heavy burden to carry that fear that someone should attack you in such a fashion.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Apr 11, 2015 - 06:05pm PT
Mad bolter: Rousing speech. I couldn't stop puking.

You haven't read a single goddamn word, much less though about, the concerns of those who have a different opinion from yours.

Eloquently stated, Lollie.

Unfortunately these guys are lost in a fantasy land where they actually believe that they are the only people who are capable of comprehending the concept of freedom.



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