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madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:41pm PT
There you go again, trying to change the topic. Non-starter.

It's honestly sad to watch how you can't follow an obvious inference. If you think this is "changing the topic," then, seriously, I am sad for you.

As one final attempt to help you see this through, the argument is quite straightforward:

1) Gun control laws are STRONGLY advocated by some people because they say the school-shooting carnage is unacceptable.

2) Such gun control advocates appeal to emotion in claiming that school-shooting carnage is a "national crisis" that DEMANDS sweeping and federal gun control legislation.

3) Such gun control advocates do not seem to give a rip, nor start threads, nor express ANY horrified emotions regarding the MANY other "carnages" not involving guns that actually take the lives of orders of magnitude more children than do the school-shooting "carnages."

4) Such gun control advocates apparently do not have any internal consistency regarding their fervent appeals to emotion, or regarding the legislative changes they employ appeal to emotion to get enacted.

5) To be convincing, such gun control advocates SHOULD demonstrate at least bare consistency in their appeals to emotion.



6) Thus, such gun control advocates' appeals to emotion are not to be taken seriously, nor should they motivate legislative changes.

Follow?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
Why are we are given all these "statistics" that try to show everything is more dangerous then guns, but yet they feel a need to carry a gun incase of an armed confrontation?

I, for one, try to cover my various bases as best I can. I even carry homeowner's insurance WITH a flood rider, even though I'm not in a flood plane. Wowza!

Of course, nobody is advocating enacting sweeping, FEDERAL legislation to "further control" (as if that were possible) things like cigarettes, alcohol (and drunk driving), high-fat-intake diets, and so forth.

Start trying to get more FEDERAL legislation on these fronts also, and I'll also strongly advocate against that.

This thread focuses on guns, and gun deaths in this country are NOT some "national crisis" that needs yet more federal involvement.

If you think gun-deaths are a "national crisis," then my point is that you've got FAR bigger fish to fry on other fronts, yet nobody is proposing FEDERAL legislation to "solve" those "national crises."

The biggest problem you guys have got is that you simply cannot produce anything approaching a compelling case to the effect that there IS a "national crisis" that needs FEDERAL intervention. Or, to be consistent, you need to be proposing a whole SLEW of FEDERAL legislation to "stop the carnage" on a host of other fronts as well.

Again, show me a fervent thread on ANY of those subjects, and I'll believe in your sincerity a lot more.

As it stands, the FACT is that you guys just don't like guns. Among the MANY "carnages" you could try to get motivated to stop, you fixate on guns.

And, ironically, this is something explicitly mentioned in the constitution. So, have fun with that. I find you all to be insincere and amazingly disingenuous!
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
It's honestly sad to watch how you can't follow an obvious inference.If you think this is "changing the topic," then, seriously, I am sad for you.

Your inference doesn't equate with people that go out with the purpose of murdering as many people they can on a mass shooting.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
The biggest problem you guys have got is that you simply cannot produce anything approaching a compelling case to the effect that there IS a "national crisis" that needs FEDERAL intervention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States







If this doesn't indicate a society with a serious problem, what does?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
The drunken need to defend the nation notwithstanding comma the right to distill and drink alcohol shall not be infringed...

Lol!

No, no 2nd amendment protection of booze. In fact the production of alcohol is heavily regulated from the Fed, states and local authorities as well. Not that it matters.

See the topic line? This thread is about guns, not about BUT MA! THEY DID IT TOO!

If you can't stay on topic perhaps start your own alcohol thread.

DMT
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
As it stands, the FACT is that you guys just don't like guns. Among the MANY "carnages" you could try to get motivated to stop, you fixate on

A problem you have is to generalize your facts. I like my guns

I am an owner of many guns and was raised with loaded guns in the house at all times.
I see no reason for asking for legislation limiting the size of a magazine to 7 rounds or the stopping of selling fully auto guns.

Edit,
Your fixation is to find an end run around any legislation therfore declaring any legislation attempts useless.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:26pm PT
What I like about the children's tactical vest is the 100% money back guarantee. If your kid gets plugged, they'll happily refund your money.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
Your inference doesn't equate with people that go out with the purpose of murdering as many people they can on a mass shooting.

No, instead we have FAR more people killing FAR more kids in simply pathetic, negligent, idiotic fashion with what is ALSO a deadly weapon. But that's okay.

Use a gun; go to prison.

Use a car; get your wrist slapped.

The point you fail to get hold of is that the laws (on any front) don't work.

You guys just get your panties in a bunch over one particular subset of killings and associated laws.

Inconsistent.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
Are you proposing that we should legislate accidents?
If you stay on topic we can discuss premeditated killings though.

Edit,
Use a car; get your wrist slapped

For crying out loud, where do live?
There are many laws that will land you plenty of years in prison for the negligent use of a motor vehicle.

johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
The point you fail to get hold of is that the laws (on any front) don't work.

Yes, we shouldn't have any laws, there are always some that won't obey them, so why bother.


scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
my guess is the NRA is paying certain people to post on this thread
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
If you outlaw murder, only outlaws will murder.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:59pm PT
If the NRA is paying them they should ask for their money back.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
my guess is the NRA is paying certain people to post on this thread

nice, got some beer through the nose on that one
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
What I like about the children's tactical vest is the 100% money back guarantee. If your kid gets plugged, they'll happily refund your money.

Bullet resistant products.

Like my water resistant watch that I bought for ten bucks.


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
Yes, we shouldn't have any laws, there are always some that won't obey them, so why bother.

Yes, we shouldn't have more laws when the enforcement of the present (and what should be adequate) laws has already proven to be ineffectual.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
Yes, we shouldn't have more laws when the enforcement of the present (and what should be adequate) laws has already proven to be ineffectual.

Good night folks.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 14, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
The huge difference between drugs and guns is that no country on earth has yet figured out what to do about drugs, while the USA remains the only developed country on earth that hasn't figured out what to do about guns.

With booze, we're somewhere in the middle. Who can explain the logic that I'm a felon if I buy my kid a beer on the day before his 21st birthday, yet I can legally buy him a .50cal before he can walk?

My wishlist isn't based on some blinkered political dogma, it's based on seeing what has worked in other countries, and even shown to work in some of our own states - regulation.

My definition of "worked"? A per capita homicide rate below that of countries with declared armed conflicts shouldn't be unreasonable.

TE
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Jul 14, 2014 - 10:03pm PT
I don't think internet logic is your thing TE
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
My definition of "worked"? A per capita homicide rate below that of countries with declared armed conflicts shouldn't be unreasonable.

COOL!

We're already there, despite being HUGELY more and diversely populated than the paradigm-example nations you and others like to tout. Did you bother to read the links I posted just upthread?

The UK, as just one example, "games" their reporting. If the US reported as the UK does, our homicide-by-gun rate would be exactly in line with theirs. And that's with the UK having about the strictest gun-control laws on the planet, AND with them being a tiny, island nation with about 1/5 our population.

So, yup, we're already there. The chafing can end now!

Yayyy
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