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Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Mar 6, 2015 - 09:03am PT
How many posters on this thread hold a valid passport ?

If you do, have you used it to travel internationally in the last 5 years ?

One. Me. Yes.

DMT
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Mar 6, 2015 - 09:04am PT
Yeah Reilly, your Nexus Card is OK. Elephant gun ? Sign me up !
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 6, 2015 - 09:08am PT
Got limestone? (last October)

Dov'e gli langusti?
Dov'e gli langusti?
Credit: Reilly

BTW, knott Lake Simcoe.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Mar 6, 2015 - 09:12am PT
Ok but that map with the various shades of blue is quite misleading. Like hell I'm going to Greenland...
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Mar 6, 2015 - 09:24am PT
Don't find yourself in Coal Harbour at dusk, unprepared. You WILL get attacked by a cougar !
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 6, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
We have a right to guns and the magazines of ammo to fire them. Is a law that limits magazines to 15 rounds "infringing" on that right? There are slippery slopes everywhere you look with these sorts of questions.

And every time someone brings up that slippery slope when we're specifically discussing Background Checks, it plays right into the hands of an industry that cares about profits, not rights. Please, call your representative, ask them to support the latest bill, and help reduce gun crime in a way that doesn't punish responsible gun owners.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 6, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
I correct myself, hopefully universal background checks will increase gun crime, by making criminals of those who willingly sell guns to criminals.

TE

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 6, 2015 - 06:18pm PT
Do you really think any GOOD gun owner sets around waiting for some criminal to contact him in a bar about a gun??? I think you must.

I'm not concerned about the "good" owners, I'm concerned about many people reselling guns, no questions asked in those 30 or 31 states where it's not a crime to sell guns privately to a total stranger, where its even legal to advertize that no background check will be needed. Don't believe me? Go to armslist.com and look yourself. You're living in la-la land if you think criminals need to bother crossing the Mexican border to get guns, when they can get them so easily already.

Must be hell for you in PA where dam near everyone has a gun or three. Hunting capitol of the right coast on all.

I grew up hunting, I was on my university target shooting team and my military reserve shooting team, guns don't bother me, people selling guns to crooks do. Here in PA, a firearms safety course is required to get a hunting permit, while none is required to get a CCW. Does that make sense?

Happy weekend.

TE
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 6, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
I don't know what you want to do. It's already illegal to sell guns to crooks. What more do you want? Make it double-secret illegal, or something?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Mar 6, 2015 - 06:43pm PT
What does a crook look like, Chaz ?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 6, 2015 - 06:52pm PT
Do you believe you can profile by appearance?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Mar 6, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
Of course not.

Your post above says it's illegal to sell a gun to a crook. So, the question of verifying who's who becomes highly relevant and the common method of getting to the facts is all about identification.

The freedom equals responsibility argument really takes a convoluted path as soon as firearms are involved.

jonnyrig

climber
Mar 6, 2015 - 11:11pm PT
Rational thought seems to take a convoluted path simply by mentioning firearms.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Mar 7, 2015 - 06:39am PT
^^^^^ I find the below to be stunningly rational:

Your post above says it's illegal to sell a gun to a crook. So, the question of verifying who's who becomes highly relevant and the common method of getting to the facts is all about identification.

As far as background checks go.....

johnnyrig? What say you?

DMT
jonnyrig

climber
Mar 7, 2015 - 07:01am PT
Background checks would undoubtedly prevent some prohibited persons from buying firearms through legal channels. The cost is minimal, and it could be set up in such a manner that a private party could simply call in with a driver license number and a credit cart/electronic check to cover the fee.

That's all that would need to be done. Seems pretty common sense, and relatively easy to implement. Can it be done without trying to bunch it without a lot of more emotionally-driven fluff?

I tend to balk at laws that further restrict our rights and our freedom, so am against the so-called Patriot Act, bans on phone use while driving (they already have/had laws that cover negligence behind the wheel. Cell ban is simply a revenue generator), and personally think a universal background would be more effective than all the specific firearm/magazine/black rifle bans around, many of which are easily circumvented due to the inability of closing every loophole.

Remember, no hi-cap mags in Cali. Have you been to a gunstore lately? Call one up and ask about a magazine parts kit.

But then, my rationale could be questionable this morning... didn't get to bed til near midnight and been up since 2am with a barfing two-year-old.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 7, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
So when I want to sell a gun to somebody I don't know (never happened in 36 years), then I call up a number and (he pays) the fee.

Good so far.

But then the guy on the phone tells you he is a felon. Don't sell him the gun. Thank you good by. Click.

And you are left there standing with a shlt eating grin on your face.




Seems like this system might provoke some bad feelings,..
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 7, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
Firstly (well, for the hundredth time) it is NOT illegal in most states to sell guns to crooks. Under Federal law, it is only illegal to sell a gun to a crook if you know or reasonably believe the buyer to be a crook. Belief is a whole lot more than even a very strong suspicion.

This allows criminals to buy guns with minimal risk from innocent but irresponsible gun owners. More importantly, this is a loophole that allows professional straw purchasers virtual immunity from prosecution, since it would be so difficult to prove they knew a buyer was a crook.

There's no need to wonder how it would work, it already does work in about 20 states. You meet the buyer at a licensed dealer, the dealer does the background check, one of you pays the fee, you get a "receipt" to prove you sold the gun legally, and the dealer keeps a copy too.

Even the Gun Nut websites acknowledge that "only" 5% of criminals guns are bought this way, that alone could be 500 deaths, 5000 injuries and untold numbers of shootings and threats, and doesn't include those guns that are later resold on the street.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 7, 2015 - 06:10pm PT
But then the guy on the phone tells you he is a felon. Don't sell him the gun. Thank you good by. Click.

And you are left there standing with a shlt eating grin on your face.




Seems like this system might provoke some bad feelings,..

The point is that with universal background checks, he knows he won't be sold the gun, so he won't try. Sure, maybe he'll get one some other way, but the harder it is, or the more risk in trying, the less crooks will try.

TE
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 7, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
If there's a demand for something and money waving in the wind, the supply will always find a way. Always. The spice must flow.

In a country this massive with borders so completely porous, with technical machining resources so vast internally there is simply no way to prevent the manufacturing or distribution of anything easy to grow or make.

People like me choose to obey the laws partially out of habit and partially perhaps because we are fearful of the consequences. Perhaps we are the foolish ones.

As with drugs or alcohol, if the root causes of the demand are not addressed, there is never a problem with supply, even in prisons.

With weapons, if the root causes of murder and gang violence in our large cities are not addressed, adding more laws to the thousands we already have and don't(or can't) enforce won't make a bit of difference.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 7, 2015 - 08:41pm PT
TradEddie writes:

"Firstly (well, for the hundredth time) it is NOT illegal in most states to sell guns to crooks."


BZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTT!!! WRONG!


Nowhere in this country is selling a firearm to a prohibited person legal in any way shape or form.

Ask Anderson. He sells guns all day long.

I don't know what you want. What you're concerned with is already illegal. Already illegal. What more can you do, besides enforcing existing laws?
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