The Gun debate sandbox

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 5041 - 5060 of total 5937 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jun 11, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
Maybe Rong "the Gun Shill" Handerson should brag about how many f*#king GUN SAFES he sells, instead of cackling about his S&W salesmanship?

"Keep er at the nightstand, friend, easier for the tiny tot to practice on that way."
Binks

climber
Uranus
Jun 11, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
I used to be middle of the road but gun nuts are insane, shooting up schools every week including one near me and you asshats continue to defend it. It must be stopped, obviously with contempt at this point. You have no respect, no empathy, just blind willful ignorance that every week results in the death of more school kids.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 11, 2014 - 05:08pm PT
To answer a previous question to myself about CCW deterring shooters, it seems that everytime a whacko shooter is confronted by a gun-owner (LEO or CCW carrier), they quickly take their own lives and end the spree.

This happens more times than gets reported. Not as PC as the other anti-gun narratives.

This is the only time I can remember a CCW carrier 'losing', but it's probably because he thought there was only one shooter in the Walmart and didn't suspect the woman to be an accomplice.
jstan

climber
Jun 11, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
http://www.ibtimes.com/las-vegas-shooter-jerad-miller-mocked-isla-vista-killer-elliot-rodger-facebook-1596384


Las Vegas Shooter Jerad Miller Mocked Isla Vista Killer Elliot Rodger On Facebook
By Howard Koplowitz@howardkoplowitz
on June 09 2014 2:42 PM

Las Vegas shooter Jerad Miller mocked Isla Vista killer Elliot Rodger while commenting on his Facebook page about a rally held in support of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy.

An open-carry rally was hosted in Burkburnett, Texas, late last month to protest the Bureau of Land Management, the government agency that accused Bundy of illegally grazing cattle on federal lands and engaged in a standoff with the controversial rancher, whose support diminished after he suggested blacks would be better off under slavery.

Miller commented on the rally while taking a swipe at Rodger, who said he planned his “Day of Retribution” because he was a 22-year-old virgin and complained girls weren’t giving him the attention he deserved.

“Look, no shootings,” Miller wrote on his Facebook page. “Wait, these guys [have] been laid.”

The Las Vegas shooter also criticized gun control advocates who blamed the NRA for the Isla Vista killings. On his Facebook page, Miller shared a photo from gun dealer FLL123.com’s page showing “King of the Hill” character Dale Gribble criticizing the left:

“So yet another liberal left-wing wack job [sic] goes on yet another mass shooting spree because he couldn’t get laid and that’s the NRA’s fault? Jeez, it’s no wonder liberalism’s regarded as a mental disorder,” the caption reads.


At the time of the Rodgers’ massacre the NRA violated it’s long standing practice of reserving comments on shootings for a time, and came out against unlimited right to carry in Texas as being advocated by members carrying shotguns in retail stores. This reversal was unusual. It happened at about the same time as did Isla Vista, the latter leading to the inescapable conclusion that we have people lacking a whole six pak. cf below.

Now we have a person venting on the internet who later turns out to be a shooter. Which brings us back again to the possibility that some of us are missing something. This begins to paint the NRA into a corner wherein it has no choice but to assert that everyone is fully qualified to carry firearms. More and more that appears to be a losing proposition, even as viewed from within that august organization.

Following Isla Vista I posted a report of an initiative to expand the ability authorities have to detain individuals who have showed frankly weird behavior. We may be able to continue offering unlimited firearm possession to all parties, but at the cost of increasing the power authorities have to detain individuals for psychiatric evaluation. The tracks left from the recent massacres have been very suggestive.

Perhaps this is the choice.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/05/us/nra-backs-away-from-criticism-of-open-carry-advocates.html?_r=0


N.R.A. Backs Away From Article Criticizing Advocates of Carrying Guns in Public
By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS JUNE 4, 2014

**The National Rifle Association is distancing itself from an article on its website that called demonstrations by gun rights advocates who brandished weapons in public “scary” and “weird,” and that said such advocates had “crossed the line from enthusiasm to downright foolishness.”

The article and the subsequent denunciations in the past week are an unusual public disagreement inside the N.R.A. about the tactics of protesters, particularly in Texas, who have shown up with shotguns and rifles in parking lots and inside stores and restaurants to assert their right to openly carry firearms.**

The N.R.A. article, which was posted Friday on its website but received only modest attention initially, asked gun enthusiasts to consider their actions so as to avoid a negative impact on the movement, “such as turning an undecided voter into an anti-gun voter because of causing that person fear or offense.”

The article, with the headline, “Good Citizens and Good Neighbors: The Gun Owners’ Role,” added, “While unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.”

“Let’s not mince words, not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself,” the article said. “To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one’s cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.”

The article remained on the group’s Institute for Legislative Action website on Wednesday, although the byline, “By the National Rifle Association,” had been dropped. Its unsparing language prompted criticism from some N.R.A. members, which led the group to back away from the comments.

“The truth is, an alert went out that referred to this type of behavior as ‘weird’ or somehow not normal, and that was a mistake. It shouldn’t have happened,” Chris W. Cox, the group’s chief lobbyist, said in an interview on Tuesday on an N.R.A.-hosted program that was posted on the group’s website on Wednesday.

“The National Rifle Association supports open carry,” Mr. Cox said. “We support concealed carry. We have led the charge across the country to not only protect our members’ rights to self-defense, but to expand it.”

The association referred reporters on Wednesday to Mr. Cox’s remarks.

Laws approved by several state legislatures in the last two years to enact or expand “open carry” laws have led some places of worship and a number of retailers to ask patrons to leave their guns at home or in their vehicles to avoid upsetting others.

Some gun rights advocates have responded, in states where such actions are legal, by holding demonstrations in which they openly carry firearms. One advocacy group, Open Carry Texas, encourages members to walk around openly displaying their weapons, part of a push to persuade state lawmakers and the public to support open-carry legislation for handguns.

The legislation would give those licensed to carry concealed handguns the option of wearing their guns in holsters at their hips in public.

Other states, including Arizona, New Mexico and Oklahoma, allow people to openly carry handguns with or without a license. Texas has never passed an open-carry law, and gun rights advocates across the state have grown increasingly assertive in their campaign, carrying their rifles inside and outside of restaurants, police stations, malls and even the Alamo in San Antonio.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 11, 2014 - 05:33pm PT
This is the only time I can remember a CCW carrier 'losing',
Please cite some instances where they won.

I mean besides Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis in the parking lot in Florida.
The young black woman who somehow ended up on the old white guy's porch and was blown away.
All three killers thought they were in some sort of danger. None of them "lost".
So there are three for you to start with.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 11, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
bluering said
To answer a previous question to myself about CCW deterring shooters, it seems that everytime a whacko shooter is confronted by a gun-owner (LEO or CCW carrier), they quickly take their own lives and end the spree.

This happens more times than gets reported.


Yes that's why basically each one of these stories ends with "before taking his own life."
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 11, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
Bluebells, what a brunch of crap.
You gunNuts will never learn.
jstan

climber
Jun 11, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
Alternatively one can say the shooting of others is just an ceremony that allows the shooter to commit suicide. There may be an answer here. Base jumping without a chute from 60,000 feet and attempting a water landing, eh?

Think about this a little.

I'll say only two words. No reply needed.

Navier Stokes

Do it at the north pole when the ice is out. Then walk to the south pole.

Waye rad.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 11, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
What is up with all the "I don't trust the mainstream media" conservatives making generalizations about news stories that are patently false and easily proven as such?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 11, 2014 - 06:15pm PT
What is up with all the "I don't trust the mainstream media" conservatives making generalizations about news stories that are patently false and easily proven as such?

It's clear they downplay the gun defense stories and go with the horrific innocents killed.

"if it bleeds it leads", coupled with anti-gun sentiment in the MSM makes this evident.



http://www.gunforums.net/forums/general-gun-talk/298-recent-ccw-self-defense-stories-note.html

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/news-good-bad-ugly/1051-true-stories-armed-self-defense.html

http://gunssavelives.net/#

Self defense gun-stories are out there.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 11, 2014 - 06:38pm PT
It's clear they downplay the gun defense stories and go with the horrific innocents killed.

Credit: crankster
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 11, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
Well done bluey.
However it doesn't sound as if these are premeditated mass murders.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 11, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#362055
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jun 11, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
Actually there could be another reason for the media down playing the self defense stories.

It simply happens too often!
How many times do they report all the non-injury accidents that day? How many times do they report all the petty thefts? How many times do they report all the domestic violence cases?

If it bleeds it leads, but if it is common as dirt then it no longer constitutes "news" to the media, and if they report many people using guns to defend themselves without shots being fired they risk being labelled as advocating vigilantism.

Didn't Lott claim it happens millions of times a year? Even if one tenth it would still be too commonplace.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 11, 2014 - 07:18pm PT
Nonsense. Fox is the most watched cable channel. If it was happening all the time they'd run it 24/7.
The media is mostly conservative.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 11, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
Well done bluey.
However it doesn't sound as if these are premeditated mass murders.

Fred, hopefully I remembered your name correctly, you're correct but you're missing my point. Guns in the hands of responsible people can greatly reduce lives lost before LEOs show up. It can take a while sometimes for LEO to arrive.

The 2 psychos in Nevada were definitely hell-bent on killing more people before the citizen stepped in and most likely sent their plans to hell.

The Oregan mall-shooter in 2012 was confronted by a CCW citizen and after seeing him, promptly went into a store and blew his head off.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

The UCSB shooter did the same when confronted by police with guns, as did the Sandy Hook shooter.

The bottom line is that the sooner guns arrive to a scene, the quicker the shooting stops, wether it's a citizen or LEO showing up.

The 2 psychos in Nevada are particularly disturbing. They actually walked up to cops and executed them. They strike me as crazy meth-heads more than anything else.

Oakland, Ca., remember when those 2 motorcycle cops were executed by the gang-banger? Nasty sh#t.

I don't blame guns though, because felons will always get them, I blame psychos with no respect for law and innocent life. Very similar to terrorists.

EDIT:
Didn't Lott claim it happens millions of times a year? Even if one tenth it would still be too commonplace.

That's another thing. Lott never gets credit for the research he's done that clearly shows that gun-free zones have higher gun violence rates than the converse areas. Meh....
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 11, 2014 - 07:44pm PT
Steve, I agree on a couple of your facts.
The UCSB shooter did the same when confronted by police with guns
Would he have even been in that situation without his 2 Glocks and 400 rounds?
The 2 psychos in Nevada are particularly disturbing. They actually walked up to cops and executed them. They strike me as crazy meth-heads more than anything else.
They fully intended to kill themselves. Or at least the woman did. If the guy who tried to stop them had ducked and run instead, he might well be alive. Obviously after he was dead he didn't stop them from killing anyone else.
Oakland, Ca., remember when those 2 motorcycle cops were executed by the gang-banger? Nasty sh#t.
Actually I don't clearly remember it but I don't doubt it. An example of a determined assassin. Two armed cops couldn't defend themselves. How was the gang-banger captured/killed? By a Good Guy With a Gun?
I don't blame guns though, because DETERMINED felons will always get them, I blame psychos with no respect for law and innocent life. Very similar to terrorists.
(I added DETERMINED)

It's also true that letting just about anyone have a gun makes it more dangerous for all of us. There are always individual events that will support either side of the argument. It's the big picture statistics that matters.

I've personally known 4 people who killed themselves with firearms. I don't know anyone who's done it any other way. Three of them friends, two of them neighbors, one of them a wife and mother, one a 21 year old boy. Two of them at home with family. My local fire company, all friends of mine and of the victims, had to pick up the pieces of the mother and the boy. Had to clean the house and garage. Attempted suicide by firearm has close to 100% success rate. It's quick and easy. Hanging or asphyxiation take time and struggle. Prescription pills and other poisons have a low success rate. Few other means of suicide are as effective.
As a society we are responsible for allowing such easy access to deadly force.
Fred
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 11, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
Actually I don't clearly remember it but I don't doubt it. An example of a determined assassin. Two armed cops couldn't defend themselves. How was the gang-banger captured/killed? By a Good Guy With a Gun?

Yep, several block man-hunt that ended with the perp being shot dead by LEO.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 11, 2014 - 08:26pm PT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_shootings_of_Oakland_police_officers

The shootings were in 2009. 4 cops killed.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 12, 2014 - 02:57pm PT
Holy crap

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/gun-violence-spurs-grim-industry-bulletproof-items-kids-n129821
Messages 5041 - 5060 of total 5937 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews